| ROTORRAY |
| My son has an '03 Accord EX-L (I think that's the designation...has all the bells/whistles including Navi). It was purchased in Oct '02. Now has 105K miles and tranny died. Recall was done. Honda has just agreed to pay 25%. Personally I don't think that's enough given the MISERABLE history of this transmission and their miserable history of supporting customers who purchased their vehicles. The design was faulty, and this has been known for YEARS. I'm going to press for a 3/36 warranty and was just wondering what you folks thought. They will probably give it their standard 12 month/12K warranty. By the by, there are 7 Hondas/Acuras in our family and he races Honda motorcycles on the dirt. I was considering an '08 Accord but now I don't know if there will be another Honda-made vehicle in our family. |
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| ROTORRAY |
| Come on, folks. You are the experts. Would appreciate ANY input. thanx. |
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| G. COLTON |
At 105,000 miles I would be estatic that they supported your son with 25%. I would not have expected anything with that old of a vehicle and high mileage. Did not the vehicle have a specified warranty when it was purchased? Why would you expect them, or any manufacturer of any product, to profide financial relief when the warranty life has more than been doubled?
G |
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| ROTORRAY |
| ...Honda has paid out tens-of-millions of dollars replacing trannys on cars which have LONG exceeded time/mileage warranty. If the vehicle was out of warranty why are they doing this? Isn't a warranty a warranty and when that time/mileage is exceeded they wring their hands of it? They have also replaced multiple trannys in the same vehicle, OUT OF WARRANTY. They pay because their product was DEFECTIVE. Owning an '04 as you do I hope your's lasts longer than 100K, if you own it that long. We'll see how you feel if and when it takes a dump on you due to a defective design. |
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| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by ROTORRAY
...Honda has paid out tens-of-millions of dollars replacing trannys on cars which have LONG exceeded time/mileage warranty. If the vehicle was out of warranty why are they doing this? Isn't a warranty a warranty and when that time/mileage is exceeded they wring their hands of it? They have also replaced multiple trannys in the same vehicle, OUT OF WARRANTY. They pay because their product was DEFECTIVE. Owning an '04 as you do I hope your's lasts longer than 100K, if you own it that long. We'll see how you feel if and when it takes a dump on you due to a defective design.
Actually, very few of their trannies are "defective". They do have a less than anticipated design life. Honda replaces them because that design life is judged against the competition by the consumer in their next purchase. To retain that consumer, they pay for replacements within certain mileage/vehicle age. With their transmission warranty extension (I believe it was 7+ years/109K miles) they decided that time/mileage was a reasonable vehicle life. That did cost them some customers because people based their current high expectations on excellent past reliability results. However, as they say when you purchase stocks - past performance does not guarantee future performance. Even Toyota is having tranny problems with their Camry tranny now.
On the average 100K is still the excepted life of a vehicle without major problems. Honda/Toyota generally do better and GM/Etc generally do worse. If you get 100K problem free miles out of a Chevy, you are considered lucky. If you only get 100K problem free miles out of a Honda/Toyota, it is considered defective.
You say that you may not consider an 08 Accord. Realistically, you will evaluate the competition and compare it's reliability, since a life of more than 100K problem free miles is a requirement for you. Now that Honda is past the Tranny problems, the Accord V6 has a better than average reliability rating. CR has two vehicles listed higher in reliability than the V6 Accord - the V6 AWD Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan. However, since they are new models, the reliability history is only 2 years old - who knows what the long term durability will be - history predicts it will not be great. The 4 cylinder and FWD versions of the Fusion/Milan are rated less reliable than the V6 Accord. The 4 cyl Accord is in 2nd place above the V6 Accord/Fusion/Milan. The Camry is now having transmission issues. It looks like the Accord has the best chance of being a problem free 100K+ vehicle based on owner supplied reliability data. |
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| ROTORRAY |
"Actually, very few of their trannies are "defective". They do have a less than anticipated design life."
There was a problem with the design of something in the area of the second gear and its receiving proper lubrication. This eventually led to the tranny's failure. They had a recall which injected additional oil into this area but it did not entirely solve the problem. It was a subsequent RE-DESIGN of the '03 tranny which solved the problem. Because of their faulty design they were faced with a great liability problem. Some owners had reported their transmissions had "locked up" while driving. Can you imagine driving down the highway at 65 mph and your tranny locks up and locking up your wheels. Sounds like a ride I would not like to subject my family to. My son-in-law had an experience almost as severe as this in his '02 TL-S on the freeway going to work in commute traffic in Los Angeles. |
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| highcountrymdx |
ROTORRAY-
What if the tranny crashes at, let's say, 200k, what then? Would you expect a 3/36k warranty? If not, what do you think is fair? Gotta tell you, that 25% is looking better all the time.
Maybe time to count your blessings. Of course, the squeaky wheel......
I once knew an old lady who bought a food product on Saturday, and when she took it out of the refrigerator the next Friday, she noticed the "use by" date expired the day before, on Thursday. You want to guess what she did? That's right, she had the nerve to take it back to the store and demand her money back!
It must be amazing to listening to some of the things that come across the service manager's desk regarding expired warranties. Even one that may have even expired 55,000 miles ago. You did say it was you son's car, right? I guess we are to assume he drives like the town's most gentle driver.
BTW-
You did ask us our honest opinion. Please don't then turn around and dump on us when we give you that opinion. It's not fair. But I guess that's what this discussion is all about: questions of fairness. |
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| mdx99 |
quote:
Originally posted by ROTORRAY
Come on, folks. You are the experts. Would appreciate ANY input. thanx.
Try to get GM to give you 25% on the Oldsmobile at 105k miles for the tranny. :1: |
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| ROTORRAY |
...but you must understand that my son is 39 YEARS OF AGE and most of the miles on his car were racked up on the freeway. Some time ago there was a great deal of discussion of the tranny failures on this board and I only presented it wondering what the current feelings were. I'm happy with the 25%, don't get me wrong, but their "consideration" is VERY arbitrary with some owners getting full labor paid or full parts paid and the owner picking up the other half. You can say the warranty was out and we're lucky to get what we get but on the other hand, based on the history of this tranny, I think they will be paying more than $700 for the repair, based on the history of this tranny, if my son or his wife were thrown through the windshield, or rear-ended by a semi on the freeway, when the tranny locked the wheels up. I thank you for your input, don't get me wrong. That is what I asked for and you guys came thru, as you always do. If I sounded argumentative I apoligize. I'm not trying to scam Honda with an out of date package of carrots. I'm only trying to get an adjustment equal to what they have given other owners with similar failures.
Thanks, again, to those who have contributed to this discussion. |
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| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by ROTORRAY
"Actually, very few of their trannies are "defective". They do have a less than anticipated design life."
There was a problem with the design of something in the area of the second gear and its receiving proper lubrication. This eventually led to the tranny's failure. They had a recall which injected additional oil into this area but it did not entirely solve the problem. It was a subsequent RE-DESIGN of the '03 tranny which solved the problem. Because of their faulty design they were faced with a great liability problem. Some owners had reported their transmissions had "locked up" while driving. Can you imagine driving down the highway at 65 mph and your tranny locks up and locking up your wheels. Sounds like a ride I would not like to subject my family to. My son-in-law had an experience almost as severe as this in his '02 TL-S on the freeway going to work in commute traffic in Los Angeles.
Defective means it does not work properly. The trannies work properly but the design does not provide the life desired. I stand by that statement. If the design did provide sufficient life but they were failing because a part was improperly made, it would be defective. There is no guaranteed life of any part, just a contract to replace it if it fails within the warranty period. The consumers then vote with their pocketbook on whether they are happy with the actual life of a manufacturers components. |
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| ROTORRAY |
"If the design did provide sufficient life ..."
Some failures have occurred at mileage as low as 55K. This is beyond the warranty period. Is it "sufficient life?" Would you be satisfied paying for a $3,800 repair every 55K miles? What, exactly, does "sufficient life" mean, and who determines it. Some owners have reported multiple failures with the replacement trannys. Is 3 trannys in 80K the performance you would expect out of this component? It's not "sufficient" for me. Why is it that a tranny in a 4 cylinder has presented no problems? My son also has a Civic with 260K miles and ZERO problems from either the engine or the auto tranny. That's much more than expected, I grant you, but these figures are not unheard of. Given proper maintenance and conservative driving I would expect this component to last longer than 55K, or even 105K miles. |
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| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by ROTORRAY
"If the design did provide sufficient life ..."
Some failures have occurred at mileage as low as 55K. This is beyond the warranty period. Is it "sufficient life?" Would you be satisfied paying for a $3,800 repair every 55K miles? What, exactly, does "sufficient life" mean, and who determines it. Some owners have reported multiple failures with the replacement trannys. Is 3 trannys in 80K the performance you would expect out of this component? It's not "sufficient" for me. Why is it that a tranny in a 4 cylinder has presented no problems? My son also has a Civic with 260K miles and ZERO problems from either the engine or the auto tranny. That's much more than expected, I grant you, but these figures are not unheard of. Given proper maintenance and conservative driving I would expect this component to last longer than 55K, or even 105K miles.
I believe I covered that, but sufficient life is usually judged by comparison to the competition. If you are not happy with the life and/or Honda's response, then you let them know by buying another manufacturers vehicle that you think will be more reliable instead of another Honda. |
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