| werewolf |
Hi all
I am interested in buying a very used MDX for my mother. Looking at the prices I am thinking an 2001 or 2002 model with over 100K miles. My questions are:
1) is this a good idea? Are MDXs reliable enough to buy one with a lot of miles? Ideally I would want it for her for at least 200K miles
2) What are the things/common problems I should look for?
3) Beside the 100K mile service, are there other big service items I need to check for?
4) She lives in Minnesota with lots of snow driving. Is the MDX capable enough for these conditions?
Thanks in advance! |
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| ROTORRAY |
| ..on this site for "transmission problems." You will find that earlier models are plagued with these problems are are quite expensive to repair ($4K-ish). Personally, I would stay away from an 01-02. In '03 there was a design change which "kinda" cured the problem. Check the auto issue of Consumer Reports and you can compare a lot of vehicle models. Also check KBB.com, Edmunds.com and similar auto sites for prices on used vehicles. Don't go out and get blindsided by a smooth talking scheister. Go out there with some knowledge. the MDX is a nice vehicle but certainly not the only one. The Honda Pilot is similar and costs a lot less than the X. Repairs are also cheaper because it's "only" a Honda. Good luck, and let us know what you decide. |
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| hammermdx |
quote:
Originally posted by ROTORRAY
..on this site for "transmission problems." You will find that earlier models are plagued with these problems are are quite expensive to repair ($4K-ish). Personally, I would stay away from an 01-02. In '03 there was a design change which "kinda" cured the problem. Check the auto issue of Consumer Reports and you can compare a lot of vehicle models. Also check KBB.com, Edmunds.com and similar auto sites for prices on used vehicles. Don't go out and get blindsided by a smooth talking scheister. Go out there with some knowledge. the MDX is a nice vehicle but certainly not the only one. The Honda Pilot is similar and costs a lot less than the X. Repairs are also cheaper because it's "only" a Honda. Good luck, and let us know what you decide.
I agree with Rotorray, although my 2002 has been perfect, knock on plood. |
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| BrianV |
I also have an 02 and haven't had any problems. Looking at the previous owner records and my own, the only thing that has been replaced is the engine motor mount (covered under extended warranty) and the transmission at 45k. It was changed as part of the recall.
I don't know if that means they replaced it with another 02 transmission or whether they put a new, fixed transmission in there. I assume some fix was made, but it's my understanding that Acura was replacing all 01-02 transmissions for customers.
My transmission runs really solid; car has 82k miles now.
I've been really happy and would recommend the car. I think the car is reliable and is solid. I'd expect it to be relatively trouble-free to 200k miles with the exception of wear and tear items, etc.
I've only driven ours in snow/ice once and it was fine, but an ex-coworker had one in Denver and drove it up to the mountains all the time and said it was great in the snow. |
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| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by BrianV
I also have an 02 and haven't had any problems. Looking at the previous owner records and my own, the only thing that has been replaced is the engine motor mount (covered under extended warranty) and the transmission at 45k. It was changed as part of the recall.
I don't know if that means they replaced it with another 02 transmission or whether they put a new, fixed transmission in there. I assume some fix was made, but it's my understanding that Acura was replacing all 01-02 transmissions for customers.
It means that they replaced your transmission with a failed 2001/2002 one that was rebuilt to new factory specs. The new design introduced in the 2003 model year that actually stopped the failures is not directly interchangeable with the 2001/2002 model year trannies. The problem with that is that the replacement tranny is just as likely to fail as the original one because the "fix" was the redesign. There are quite a few owners of 2001/2002 model years with multiple tranny replacements. It is best to just avoid the 2001/2002 model years if you are in the market for a used MDX. |
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| BrianV |
quote:
Originally posted by JL_SS
It means that they replaced your transmission with a failed 2001/2002 one that was rebuilt to new factory specs. The new design introduced in the 2003 model year that actually stopped the failures is not directly interchangeable with the 2001/2002 model year trannies. The problem with that is that the replacement tranny is just as likely to fail as the original one because the "fix" was the redesign. There are quite a few owners of 2001/2002 model years with multiple tranny replacements. It is best to just avoid the 2001/2002 model years if you are in the market for a used MDX.
Why would they recall cars and take out a not-broken-yet transmissions and replace them with the same not-broken-yet transmission? |
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| BrianV |
Did a little research, it looks like they do have a kit they install but it fixes a rarer problem.
However, in my search I found a surprising amount of 2003 MDX owners who have had their transmissions replaced so I don't know what to think. I don't hear any 04-06 trannies being replaced, but there is a significant amount of 03 people reporting problems: http://www.acuramdx.org/forums/forumdisplay/f-58.html
Just look at all the 03 posts.
Anyways, it appears Acura is still helping people out on 02s and I have an extended warranty. We only planned on keeping the car for another year, but we've had great luck and our transmission feels solid. |
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| werewolf |
Thanks for all the advice!
I am looking at two MDXs which fit the mold (older and cheaper)
1) MN car 2002 model with 145k miles
tranny replaced at 100k miles
2) CA car 2001 model with 128K miles
tranny examined at 70K
The MN car is 1000 cheaper but it has been in MN and thus would/should have underbody damage from rock, salt and winters
My question is for owners of MDXs in winter states. How does the MDX body hold up to real winter conditions? |
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| oilchange |
quote:
1) is this a good idea? Are MDXs reliable enough to buy one with a lot of miles? Ideally I would want it for her for at least 200K miles
Many cars do not last 200K miles. The 2001-02 MDX transmission is very unlikely to last near 200k. Sorry, no, not reliable enough to buy one with a lot of miles. quote:
2) What are the things/common problems I should look for?
Transmission. EGR system, IAC valve. RES NAV if any. Transmission. Transmission.
quote:
3) Beside the 100K mile service, are there other big service items I need to check for?
Timing belt at 105 K if not yet done, with water pump, engine mounts probably. $$$$ Good luck. |
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| jhue |
quote:
Originally posted by werewolf
Thanks for all the advice!
I am looking at two MDXs which fit the mold (older and cheaper)
1) MN car 2002 model with 145k miles
tranny replaced at 100k miles
2) CA car 2001 model with 128K miles
tranny examined at 70K
Any 2001-2002 MDX owner hoping to unload your vehicle before the transmission fails again - here's your mark^H^H^H^Hlucky buyer. |
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| werewolf |
quote:
Originally posted by jhue
Any 2001-2002 MDX owner hoping to unload your vehicle before the transmission fails again - here's your mark^H^H^H^Hlucky buyer.
Did you actually read my post? Genius... |
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| BrianV |
I think if you're looking at ANY SUV lasting 200k you'll find a few things that could possibly go wrong. The EGR valve is an easy replacement. The transmission is the most concerning element. I don't think you're necessarily anywhere better if you get another vehicle. If you can afford an 04, get one of those, but from the sounds of your budget, I think an 01-02 is suitable. You may run into the tranny problem, you may not, but that's not to say if you bought something else you wouldn't run into a tranny problem.
Many trucks automatics (without any known flaws) won't last 200k miles anyhow.
My neighbors 2001 4Runner spun a rod at 80k miles. Anything can happen to anyone and I don't care what you're driving, if you plan on driving a vehicle to 200k you're going to experience issues.
My MDX tranny at 82k miles feels way more solid than my 98 Explorer's did at 82k miles. To each their own... |
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| BrianV |
I also wonder if the failure rate has anything to do with driving style. I'm a second owner and we baby this car. We drive it so soft as to maximize MPG and well it's so slow anyways there's no point in trying to go fast. On any given tank of gas, there's a good possibility the car never went over 3,700 rpm. Our tranny shifts crisply and I have no complaints. I would guess the original owner babied it too, after I bought it the dealer said there was excessive carbon build-up (beyond what is usual for the mileage). That tells me he didn't get on it often enough to clean it out.
Based on the nominal research I did this afternoon, it seems the problem is around the third clutch and is seen the most at deep throttle, high rpm shifting. Albeit, it's a flaw if the tranny can't cope with the specifications of the engine, but it sounds as if it is worse at higher rpm shifts.
That would lead me to think that the transmission failures are more common in people who drive the car hard, which is true for most failures.
I called my dealer and gave them my VIN and they said the recall was done to the tranny but it had never been replaced. Hence, I have a real 82k on mine and it's operating good (knock on wood). I have another year on the warranty and we hadn't planned on keeping it past 100k anyways. |
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| Tahoe4wd |
I bought my 2001 new and have had the recall done on the 2nd gear jet for better lub on the tranny.
I tow a 4000 lb boat a few times a year from 4500 ft up to 6500ft. I have had no problems with my transmission now at 96,000 miles. I would say that if you found one that has had the transmission replaced you are probably fine. If not then be cautious. Although mine has been perfect the track record doesn't reflect this being the norm.
It is an awesome car in the snow. I have yet to buy snow tires using just the stock tires and they work well when tread is 50% or more. (however, I am moving so I am trying to find a studded tire set up). I have no rust issues except with the wheel lugs that seem to show a little rust. I litterally smashed into a huge hole under the snow that ruined my front strut making it start to leak. Threw the alighnment off. Got it replaced and all is well.
The car is great in the snow for traction but is not good for plowing through ice berms as the underside is not protected well. |
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| BrianV |
quote:
Originally posted by Tahoe4wd
I bought my 2001 new and have had the recall done on the 2nd gear jet for better lub on the tranny.
I tow a 4000 lb boat a few times a year from 4500 ft up to 6500ft. I have had no problems with my transmission now at 96,000 miles. I would say that if you found one that has had the transmission replaced you are probably fine. If not then be cautious. Although mine has been perfect the track record doesn't reflect this being the norm.
It is an awesome car in the snow. I have yet to buy snow tires using just the stock tires and they work well when tread is 50% or more. (however, I am moving so I am trying to find a studded tire set up). I have no rust issues except with the wheel lugs that seem to show a little rust. I litterally smashed into a huge hole under the snow that ruined my front strut making it start to leak. Threw the alighnment off. Got it replaced and all is well.
The car is great in the snow for traction but is not good for plowing through ice berms as the underside is not protected well.
Good to hear, we are considering moving to CO in the coming years. |
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| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by BrianV
Why would they recall cars and take out a not-broken-yet transmissions and replace them with the same not-broken-yet transmission?
The recall was for installation of an oil jet kit. You stated that your tranny was replaced at 45K as part of the recall. That would indicate that they found a problem during the inspection before the oil jet install and replaced the tranny. The rebuilt replacements have the oil jet kit incorporated, but most of the failures are not due to the problem that the oil jet kit solves. So the rebuilt trannies fail just as often. |
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| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by BrianV
Did a little research, it looks like they do have a kit they install but it fixes a rarer problem.
However, in my search I found a surprising amount of 2003 MDX owners who have had their transmissions replaced so I don't know what to think. I don't hear any 04-06 trannies being replaced, but there is a significant amount of 03 people reporting problems: http://www.acuramdx.org/forums/forumdisplay/f-58.html
Just look at all the 03 posts.
Anyways, it appears Acura is still helping people out on 02s and I have an extended warranty. We only planned on keeping the car for another year, but we've had great luck and our transmission feels solid.
The 01/02's get black dots (much worse than average rating) for major tranny problems in CR, while the 2003's get an average rating. The 2004's and up get a much better than average rating. It's likely that the 2003 redesign addressed the major failure issues and tweaking the design for 2004 eliminated the problems. I wish you luck with yours, we are just pointing out that if anyone is considering a 2001/2002 now, they would be better off not taking the chance as the tranny failure rate is much higher than average. |
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| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by BrianV
I also wonder if the failure rate has anything to do with driving style. I'm a second owner and we baby this car. We drive it so soft as to maximize MPG and well it's so slow anyways there's no point in trying to go fast. On any given tank of gas, there's a good possibility the car never went over 3,700 rpm. Our tranny shifts crisply and I have no complaints. I would guess the original owner babied it too, after I bought it the dealer said there was excessive carbon build-up (beyond what is usual for the mileage). That tells me he didn't get on it often enough to clean it out.
Based on the nominal research I did this afternoon, it seems the problem is around the third clutch and is seen the most at deep throttle, high rpm shifting. Albeit, it's a flaw if the tranny can't cope with the specifications of the engine, but it sounds as if it is worse at higher rpm shifts.
That would lead me to think that the transmission failures are more common in people who drive the car hard, which is true for most failures.
I called my dealer and gave them my VIN and they said the recall was done to the tranny but it had never been replaced. Hence, I have a real 82k on mine and it's operating good (knock on wood). I have another year on the warranty and we hadn't planned on keeping it past 100k anyways.
As someone who has been around since the failures started, I can tell you that there were no discernable patterns reported for the failures. There were people who towed a lot and did not have failures and people who babied their vehicles and had multiple failures. There are no actual failure rates reported for the MDX but the closest absolute info is for the 2001 CL, which CR did reveal had an actual reported tranny failure rate of 25%. As tahoe4wd notes, if you find a used 2001/2002 and it has not had a tranny replacement, the chances are higher that it may be part of the 75%+ that will not fail. But people tend to keep vehicles that are reliable and trade ones that are not. |
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| BrianV |
quote:
Originally posted by JL_SS
As someone who has been around since the failures started, I can tell you that there were no discernable patterns reported for the failures. There were people who towed a lot and did not have failures and people who babied their vehicles and had multiple failures. There are no actual failure rates reported for the MDX but the closest absolute info is for the 2001 CL, which CR did reveal had an actual reported tranny failure rate of 25%. As tahoe4wd notes, if you find a used 2001/2002 and it has not had a tranny replacement, the chances are higher that it may be part of the 75%+ that will not fail. But people tend to keep vehicles that are reliable and trade ones that are not.
Towing boats vs babying cars doesn't necessarily relate to my concept about higher rev shifting. I baby my sports cars but I also excersize them thoroughly. It's impossible to tell without a detailed survey so it's almost not worth discussing. The fact that they fail at anywhere from 10k miles to never fail leads me to believe there is SOME variable that just hasn't been discovered. Also, per your comment, there are a lot of people who have had multiple trannies; maybe there's something they're doing as far as operating the vehicle. Regardless, there's obviously a problem, but it'd be nice to understand what conditions make it happen more frequently. Without more data than is available on the internet, we'll never know.
I'll stick to driving mine the way it's been driven and hope we have good success.
Thanks for your input. |
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| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by BrianV
Towing boats vs babying cars doesn't necessarily relate to my concept about higher rev shifting. I baby my sports cars but I also excersize them thoroughly. It's impossible to tell without a detailed survey so it's almost not worth discussing. The fact that they fail at anywhere from 10k miles to never fail leads me to believe there is SOME variable that just hasn't been discovered. Also, per your comment, there are a lot of people who have had multiple trannies; maybe there's something they're doing as far as operating the vehicle. Regardless, there's obviously a problem, but it'd be nice to understand what conditions make it happen more frequently. Without more data than is available on the internet, we'll never know.
I'll stick to driving mine the way it's been driven and hope we have good success.
Thanks for your input.
Towing and babying were meant as an example to bracket the extremes. There was a lot more detail about available about driving habits during the period that the failures started happening. Now it's all buried in posts. But driving styles were variable for the owners with failures as I noted. The majority of driving styles reflected the average MDX driver - a mom toting the kids around.
And the same transmission fails in an Accord, Ody, TL, etc but not a Pilot.
The closest data we have to know what is happening is input from a respected Acura tech on this board who says there are multiple failure modes. Since the old tranny fails in every Acura/Honda V6 except the Pilot and the RL, you would think that, if there was a single driving style, it would be readily identified by now. |
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| BrianV |
quote:
Originally posted by JL_SS
Towing and babying were meant as an example to bracket the extremes. There was a lot more detail about available about driving habits during the period that the failures started happening. Now it's all buried in posts. But driving styles were variable for the owners with failures as I noted. The majority of driving styles reflected the average MDX driver - a mom toting the kids around.
And the same transmission fails in an Accord, Ody, TL, etc but not a Pilot.
The closest data we have to know what is happening is input from a respected Acura tech on this board who says there are multiple failure modes. Since the old tranny fails in every Acura/Honda V6 except the Pilot and the RL, you would think that, if there was a single driving style, it would be readily identified by now.
What's the reasoning behind the Pilot not failing when to my understanding it's the same engine and transmission. |
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| jhue |
quote:
Originally posted by BrianV
What's the reasoning behind the Pilot not failing when to my understanding it's the same engine and transmission.
Uh, perhaps the fact that it didn't exist until the 2003 model year. |
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| BrianV |
quote:
Originally posted by jhue
Uh, perhaps the fact that it didn't exist until the 2003 model year.
LOL, good answer.
Anyways, I was at my dealer today getting an oil change and I expressed my concern with the service advisor and she said she'd have someone look at it.
She brought out their shop foreman who took me on a ride with him in my car and said it's running good. I explained to him my concern about keeping it past the warranty, etc.
He told me two things, 1) They don't see that many MDXs in for tranny problems. 2) The most common problems are always around the EGR valve and EGR ports.
I asked about the TL and CL since I had a friend with a CL that had his tranny replaced. He said, yeah the CL and TLs were horrific; he was ashamed at Acura and said, "Come on guys, it's not like an automatic transmission is a new thing." He finished up by saying, "I wouldn't be worried about selling your car, for every 10 TL/CL transmissions we replace, we replace 1 MDX transmission." He also said since I have been in there before and had my tranny fluid changed that in the event that there's a problem, Acura has been stepping up for most people and paying for new trannies. He said the only exception are people coming in with 100k miles and no documentation of a properly service vehicle.
I said, online there are people who are on their 2nd-3rd transmission. He said we haven't seen any repeat customers in here, and the thing about the internet is, people are motivated to go online when they have a problem.
I don't know how that makes me feel, but I thought I'd share. He seemed like a pretty knowledgeable guy an I appreciated the fact that the dealer sent him on a ride along just so he could feel how it shifts, etc. |
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| RIPPMODS |
quote:
Originally posted by werewolf
Hi all
I am interested in buying a very used MDX for my mother. Looking at the prices I am thinking an 2001 or 2002 model with over 100K miles. My questions are:
1) is this a good idea? Are MDXs reliable enough to buy one with a lot of miles? Ideally I would want it for her for at least 200K miles
2) What are the things/common problems I should look for?
3) Beside the 100K mile service, are there other big service items I need to check for?
4) She lives in Minnesota with lots of snow driving. Is the MDX capable enough for these conditions?
Thanks in advance!
Hmmmm I do an awful amount of reading on this site but seldomly post...
I have a 01 with 117800 on the clock, I bought it 4 years ago... I live in the city and do nothing but stop and go.
My trans is fine, 5th is a tad "weird" under 75mph, and I make sure to use D3 in the city and D4 all the other times and D5 only over 75mph....
Only things broke:
Sunglass holder doesn't close
Drivers side butt heater doesn't heat
Passenger side map light switch
Cruise control button on light no longer lights.
My car still gets 24 on the highway and 15 around town.
Ross |
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| ncelk |
| If this vehicle is for your mom, I would consider buying her a newer Pilot with lower miles. I think it would be the safer bet, if you are concerned about the transmissions. Plus, I always believe in buying the lowest mileage vehicle in the best condition you can get for the dollars that you are going to spend. It doesn't have the Acura badge, but it does everything the MDX does and has a bit more room, as well. |
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| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by BrianV
What's the reasoning behind the Pilot not failing when to my understanding it's the same engine and transmission.
The Pilot had essentially the same tranny as the 2001/2002 MDX up until 2006. No one really has a good theory why it fails in everything but the Pilot. I'm sure if Honda could figure that out, they would have incorporated it into the 2001/2002 MDX replacement trannies. |
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| BrianV |
quote:
Originally posted by RIPPMODS
Hmmmm I do an awful amount of reading on this site but seldomly post...
I have a 01 with 117800 on the clock, I bought it 4 years ago... I live in the city and do nothing but stop and go.
My trans is fine, 5th is a tad "weird" under 75mph, and I make sure to use D3 in the city and D4 all the other times and D5 only over 75mph....
Only things broke:
Sunglass holder doesn't close
Drivers side butt heater doesn't heat
Passenger side map light switch
Cruise control button on light no longer lights.
My car still gets 24 on the highway and 15 around town.
Ross
My cruise light doesn't work either but we just always leave it in the on position and it works fine. |
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| drcoffee |
Most tranny failures can be attributed to either heat or dirty oil. I have recently read that someone flushed their MDX tranny fluid and at 30,000 miles it was very dark. I have to suppose that these trannys generate enough heat to break down the fluid quickly and causes the burnishing on the second gear resulting in failure. I too have an MDX '01 with a replaced tranny at 50,000 miles. I now have 75,000 miles and I'll be flushing the fluid soon. It takes 3 gallons of trans fluid, 1 gallon at a time. Drain the pan (about 1 gallon) refill and drive, repeat again, refill and you are done. On the 3rd refill the fluid should be pink again. Or you can leave it in and hope for the best.
Next, if you don't have a transmission oil cooler on your truck, get one. The stock coolant T-stats make your vehicle run hot for better emissions but the heat stresses the internals of the engine and the transmission. You don't have to change the T-stat to a 180* but it may help with longevity. Keep in mind the MDX drives like a car but weighs like truck at over 4400 LBS . That much weight in stop and go traffic will heat the fluid up quickly and without a way to cool down will burn onto the gear surfaces. The factory cooler(fin and tube) like I have on my touring MDX is okay but a stacked plate version will dissapate heat better. Go as big as you can fit in the front of your SUV. They are easy to install or have the dealer do it.
I really wish they would use a synthetic oil which would last longer and resist breakdown under heat and load. But the designers build the transmissions to operate with a specific fluid. Stick with the Acura fluid. |
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| ucsdtriton |
old timer logging in here...
01 bought in Dec. 2000, tranny replaced at 88,000 and paid by Acura (had to put up a small fight), currently have 163,000 miles and 2nd tranny is doing fine. |
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| jimboesfo |
quote:
Originally posted by drcoffee
Most tranny failures can be attributed to either heat or dirty oil. I have recently read that someone flushed their MDX tranny fluid and at 30,000 miles it was very dark. I have to suppose that these trannys generate enough heat to break down the fluid quickly and causes the burnishing on the second gear resulting in failure. I too have an MDX '01 with a replaced tranny at 50,000 miles. I now have 75,000 miles and I'll be flushing the fluid soon. It takes 3 gallons of trans fluid, 1 gallon at a time. Drain the pan (about 1 gallon) refill and drive, repeat again, refill and you are done. On the 3rd refill the fluid should be pink again. Or you can leave it in and hope for the best.
Next, if you don't have a transmission oil cooler on your truck, get one. The stock coolant T-stats make your vehicle run hot for better emissions but the heat stresses the internals of the engine and the transmission. You don't have to change the T-stat to a 180* but it may help with longevity. Keep in mind the MDX drives like a car but weighs like truck at over 4400 LBS . That much weight in stop and go traffic will heat the fluid up quickly and without a way to cool down will burn onto the gear surfaces. The factory cooler(fin and tube) like I have on my touring MDX is okay but a stacked plate version will dissapate heat better. Go as big as you can fit in the front of your SUV. They are easy to install or have the dealer do it.
I really wish they would use a synthetic oil which would last longer and resist breakdown under heat and load. But the designers build the transmissions to operate with a specific fluid. Stick with the Acura fluid.
Anybody put in a temperature gauge to see what temps the transmission sees? |
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