| softgenious |
| I know everyone will say to use VTM fluid but I really think this is just Acura trying to get more service $$$ in the door. I am really seriously thinking about going with Mobil 1 75W/90 Synthetic on my next diff change. It works wonders with all my other American/Jap cars and I just do not see how it will not be good for the MDX. What do you guys think? It is out of warranty so why not give it a try. Mobil 1 syn is a great product and I think it may actually be better then the basic VTM fluid Acura pushes. Anyone else try Mobils syn fluid??? |
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| jhue |
If cost is such a big deal to you, why not do the work yourself?
Personally, I would go with the mfgr's recommended fluids. Do you know what additives are in VTM-4 fluid? Diffs, especially those with limited slip or similar locking mechanisms/clutches often require special additives to work correctly. On my Jeep with its LSD, I have to add a special friction modifier or the LSD doesn't work properly. It doesn't slip when it should, so it's putting a lot more load on the axles and clutches and gears than normal. And it makes horrible grinding and whining noises. A tube of the required friction modifier quiets everything down and enables the LSD to work properly.
But hey, it's your vehicle, and if you've already considered all of this (doesn't seem like you have), go for it. |
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| softgenious |
| I have considered everything that you mentioned. I just wonder why Acura's rear Diff is different then any other SUV's? I have used syn's in my muscle cars and other suv's(Toyota) for years and they perform great. Money is not a concern(driving 45 minutes for a VTM change is BS) I just want to use the best fluids in my vehicles. With all the tranny/rearend problems on the Acuras, I would think a good syn may help. |
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| RN7676 |
Ya this topic has been talked (and argued in some cases) to death.
In my opinion. ..... The additives, friction modifiers, and other toxins they mix into it really come into use when the differential is "working" ... that is when the clutches are trying to lock up due to significant uneven torque and wheel slippage. If you live in a reasonable climate you'll probably never need it to work. If you live in a slippery climate the Mobil 1 stuff may work just as good. As far as lubrication and longevity goes I'd be really surprised if the Honda stuff is any better than anything else.
It might make more sense to use the Honda stuff In the transmission since it is constantly "working", slipping, sliding, locking, etc. The right or wrong friction modifier mix could make a noticeable differance there. |
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| jhue |
quote:
Originally posted by RN7676
In my opinion. ..... The additives, friction modifiers, and other toxins they mix into it really come into use when the differential is "working" ... that is when the clutches are trying to lock up due to significant uneven torque and wheel slippage. If you live in a reasonable climate you'll probably never need it to work.
That's completely backwards. Friction modifiers are there to help things slip (to reduce clutch chatter), not help lock things up. The more FM you add, the more things slip, and the less lock-up you get. |
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| mdxforever |
quote:
Originally posted by softgenious
I just wonder why Acura's rear Diff is different then any other SUV's?
Because it is. And thats the whole point about using the VTM-4 fluid only.
It is quite different from your regular rear axle differentials. This one uses electric "clutches" to engage in varying proportions each side of the axle. |
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| jhue |
quote:
Originally posted by mdxforever
It is quite different from your regular rear axle differentials. This one uses electric "clutches" to engage in varying proportions each side of the axle.
Worth mentioning this link again:
http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/...xplanation.html |
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| ROTORRAY |
| Believe me when I say that you can use WATER for all I care BUT my personal recommendation is use the Honda recommended fluid. Honda is very specific on their tranny and diff fluids and I think that is for a reason. They engineered the thing so unless you have some special knowledge I wouldn't change. It's an expensive component and I haven't read of ANY failures on this site of this unit. Their trannies are a completely different story, however. There's an old saying, "IF IT AIN'T BROKEN DON'T FIX IT," but what the hay, it's you car and your $$$$. If you do deviate from what Honda/Acura recommends please let us know how it works out for ya. I'm sure there are others tempted to do the same. |
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| BlueStreak |
The VTM unit is made by Borg-Warner. Clearly says this on the side of the unit. Call and ask to speak with technical folks and I'm sure they will tell you what's acceptable for the unit.
The VTM4 fluid is fairly cheap ($24 a gallon) and it's quite easy to change yourself. Save the labor costs. A gallon will cover you for a couple changes. |
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| softgenious |
| If you guys think I should still stay with the VTM fluid, I will. Just thought maybe I could find a better fluid to stick in there. I usually change out the tranny and VTM fluids on a yearly basis or around every other oil change. It does not cost much and why take the chance. I'll take everyones advice and stay with the recommended fluids. I know I change the tranny/VTM fluid more then I should but I usually give my kids the cars when I buy a new one. Want it to last for them as long and trouble free as possible. Thanks. |
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| dj-mdx2 |
| Wasn't there a member that tried amsoil? I don't remember him reporting back though. |
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| one4gatr |
quote:
Originally posted by BlueStreak
The VTM unit is made by Borg-Warner. Clearly says this on the side of the unit. Call and ask to speak with technical folks and I'm sure they will tell you what's acceptable for the unit.
The VTM4 fluid is fairly cheap ($24 a gallon) and it's quite easy to change yourself. Save the labor costs. A gallon will cover you for a couple changes.
I just did my VTM last weekend... Super easy to do. But FYI the 1 gallon VTM jug will only do 1 change with about a QT leftover. It takes 3qts. But in any event the whole thing takes like 15 minutes to do I dont understand why someone wouldnt spend the $24 for the OEM stuff when you only have to do this like once a year. I am totally baffled by this "cost" issue I am not sure how significantly cheaper the other fluids are but like someone else said put water in there its probably cheaper than the synth. Good luck with your project. |
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| softgenious |
| With myself, it is not the cost of the VTM fluid, it comes down to is their a BETTER oil to use. I brought up Mobil 1 and it costs more. :eek: |
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| one4gatr |
quote:
Originally posted by softgenious
With myself, it is not the cost of the VTM fluid, it comes down to is their a BETTER oil to use. I brought up Mobil 1 and it costs more. :eek:
Given the history of these tranny's I am not sure I would deviate from the recommended formula. The failure rate is bad enough using the "recommended" fluid let alone try something out of spec and accelerate it's demise. Like you said you are out of warranty and are looking for "better" fluid so I am not sure that you care but me personally I would stick with the Acura VTM due to the complexity of the device you are putting it in. Personally my VTM was perfectly fine (clean) after 40k miles on it. Good luck with whatever you do and keep us posted. |
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| softgenious |
| We have 90K on the MDX and I have changed the VTM every 15K. it sounds like VTM is the only fluid to try and I'll keep using it. I change all the fluids on the (7) vehicles that I own(except the MDX) and it gets a little crazy doing them all. I'll be taking it in soon to have the dealer change all the fluids and I'll pick up some VTM for the change for next year. The tranny I think they just drain and fill but how about the transaxle? 03 and later they have to change that also, right? Thanks. john |
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| highcountrymdx |
quote:
Originally posted by one4gatr
Given the history of these tranny's I am not sure I would deviate from the recommended formula. The failure rate is bad enough using the "recommended" fluid let alone try something out of spec and accelerate it's demise.
There may be some confusion concerning transmission vs rear differential reliability. Transmissions up to 2003 were very prone to failure, and were redesigned. However, I am not aware of any reliability complaints leveled at the rear differential, which is a different unit than the 'tranny'. The VTM-4 unit (ie, rear differential)has been virtually unchanged and bullet proof since introduction.
The transmission uses a different fuild than the rear differential fluid.
Don't confuse the two. |
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| cbrose |
So, this raises a different question: How often should the VTM-4 fluid be changed? I did mine myself at 30,000 miles and it looked brand new. I'm approaching 45,000 miles and wondering if I should do it again. The owners manual does not say to change it every 15,000 miles. Here's the data from the 60,000 mile service: :
Replace VTM-4 rear differential fluid*2
*2: At every 15,000 miles (24,000 km) up to 30,000 miles (48,000 km) or every 1 year, then every 30,000 miles (48,000 km) or 2 years.
Any thoughts/arguments on why it should be done every 15,000?
cbrose |
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| pianoman41 |
quote:
Originally posted by cbrose
So, this raises a different question: How often should the VTM-4 fluid be changed? I did mine myself at 30,000 miles and it looked brand new. I'm approaching 45,000 miles and wondering if I should do it again. The owners manual does not say to change it every 15,000 miles. Here's the data from the 60,000 mile service: :
Replace VTM-4 rear differential fluid*2
*2: At every 15,000 miles (24,000 km) up to 30,000 miles (48,000 km) or every 1 year, then every 30,000 miles (48,000 km) or 2 years.
Any thoughts/arguments on why it should be done every 15,000?
cbrose
I did mine at 15K and then at 30K and now every 30K. I think that more than meets the requirements. |
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| one4gatr |
quote:
Originally posted by highcountrymdx
There may be some confusion concerning transmission vs rear differential reliability. Transmissions up to 2003 were very prone to failure, and were redesigned. However, I am not aware of any reliability complaints leveled at the rear differential, which is a different unit than the 'tranny'. The VTM-4 unit (ie, rear differential)has been virtually unchanged and bullet proof since introduction.
The transmission uses a different fuild than the rear differential fluid.
Don't confuse the two.
You are correct I did cross over with that comment. Yes the transmission takes Z1 & the rear diff takes VTM. Point taken. What I was aluding to was the entire drive train underneath has been suspect from 01-03 and why chance any issues by using unspeced fluids. BTW there have been issues regarding the VTM... burnt oil, failures, etc.... (not as widespread as the tranny) most of these have come from people who haul/tow and not your daily highway drivers. My change interval has been 30k. I dont tow or haul if I did I would change more frequently as it is VERY easy to do... |
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| JP422 |
I dunno if you were referring to me about the Amsoil user... but I'm all for it... Love it. BUT!... for the rear diff, I'll stick with Honda VTM fluid, untill there is another synthetic fluid that is approved for it.
I will use Amsoil Synthetic ATF to replace Honda Z1 without hesitation. My accord has already put on 16k miles on it and it runs great! Amsoil claims their ATF is approved for Honda Z1 replacement. That is good enough for me. The Amsoil should also have higher heat tolerances too.
I recently did the timing belt/waterpump 100k-mile major service on our '01 LS430 and '04 LX470 too. The LX470 takes a special Toyota WS transmission fluid.... so that's what I used. The LS430 however, uses ATF that Amsoil is approved for... so I use Amsoil ATF. Runs perfect! Smooth... no quirks, noise, etc. Love it.
If Amsoil makes a fluid one day that can replace VTM, then I'll use it... but for now, they don't so I'll use Honda stuff on our '08 MDX. |
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