| MDiX |
| I been looking for some springs for the MDX and can't seem to find anything. I've approached H&R for some springs but they need a order of 50 to begin production. I also talked to another supplier that does springs for Suspension Technique to make some springs but the initial cost is pretty high, so I am here to see what some of you guys think of lowering springs for the MDX. It's not going to be a big drop of like 4" but something in the neighbourhood of 1.25-1.5 inches. I know 99.9% of the members here don't go off roading in the MDX so a little bit of lowering will make the car look a little bit sportier and handle a little bit better but still can drive over the speed bumps. This is not for everyone but if you're interested let me know and I'll get this rolling so we can have a option for the MDX. |
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| highmath |
| Good luck with that one. |
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| midnightMDX |
| I dont think you will find enough people to support demand. You'll have to go custom. If you get springs, you'll probably need aftermarket shocks. |
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| csmeance |
| by lowering the stance of the MDX, all you will be doing is ruining the look of it. It was meant to look big and beefy, not something lower. Remember, if you have the sport model, and the shocks wear out prematurely, you will need to pick up the 1k per shock price tag, and even not, the suspension is complicated due to the SH-AWD. |
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| MDiX |
| don't like it's a hit here... a 1.5 is not a very significant lowering, will put more stress on the shock will not kill it over night. I have one with a set of springs on already but with a 2.25" drop but would like to do it so it's just a bit without an overkill. |
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| dj-mdx2 |
| Yeah, the last thread I remember on somebody lowering their X didn't hit too well with this crowd. Just not the right vehicle and population segment for it I guess. Good luck anyways. |
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| shootist |
And, if your vehicle has sport supsension, you will really, really screw up the computer. As a matter of fact, if it's an 07-08, even without sport suspension, you'll probably upset the VSA functions.
You don't want a cranky VSA, either. |
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| Needsdecaf |
quote:
Originally posted by shootist
And, if your vehicle has sport supsension, you will really, really screw up the computer. As a matter of fact, if it's an 07-08, even without sport suspension, you'll probably upset the VSA functions.
You don't want a cranky VSA, either.
Funny, my Volvo has an active suspension and stability control and even lowered 1" neither was upset.
It did require a recalibration of the active suspension so it knew where the static ride height was. |
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| MDiX |
| Lowering the suspension on the sport model will not affect the VSA. the sport suspension is in the shocks where it's control by wire going into the top of the shocks. By changing the voltage going inoto the shocks, the viscousity changes in the shock to provide a firmer ride. |
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| csmeance |
quote:
Originally posted by MDiX
Lowering the suspension on the sport model will not affect the VSA. the sport suspension is in the shocks where it's control by wire going into the top of the shocks. By changing the voltage going inoto the shocks, the viscousity changes in the shock to provide a firmer ride.
Yes this is true, but with the added strain of a 6000 pound vehicle onto shocks and springs that don't match, it will hurt the shocks more. If you do want to do something, go look at getting a full coilover setup. But, remember, that you may upset some of the components in the car that relate to the SH-AWD system. |
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| Needsdecaf |
quote:
Originally posted by csmeance
Yes this is true, but with the added strain of a 6000 pound vehicle onto shocks and springs that don't match, it will hurt the shocks more. If you do want to do something, go look at getting a full coilover setup. But, remember, that you may upset some of the components in the car that relate to the SH-AWD system.
Again, I disagree. First of all, the vehicle doesn't weigh 6,000lbs.
Second of all, the thought that dropped springs is going to hurt the shocks is debatable. Dropped springs are just shorter. They may be softer, same, or stiffer than stock. I would suggest that same or stiffer springs would not hurt the shocks at all. You will actually be putting LESS load on the shocks.
Second, under what line of reasoning would you say that it would hurt the SHAWD?
Again, my Volvo is lowered with active suspension, and has AWD. No problems with mine or a host of others as well. |
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| csmeance |
quote:
Originally posted by Needsdecaf
Again, I disagree. First of all, the vehicle doesn't weigh 6,000lbs.
Second of all, the thought that dropped springs is going to hurt the shocks is debatable. Dropped springs are just shorter. They may be softer, same, or stiffer than stock. I would suggest that same or stiffer springs would not hurt the shocks at all. You will actually be putting LESS load on the shocks.
Second, under what line of reasoning would you say that it would hurt the SHAWD?
Again, my Volvo is lowered with active suspension, and has AWD. No problems with mine or a host of others as well.
Alright, it weight 5095 pounds or somewhere around there according to the door jamb sticker. the shorter the spring, the more load is put onto the shocks, even if it is stiffer, the spring will compress at a lower rate than the shock was designed for. The SH-AWD system uses various sensors from the wheel's and suspension to coordinate where power should go. |
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| brydon |
Lower car = lower center of gravity = better handling if it's setup right.
I would love a set of lowering springs for the new X I'm getting in a month or so. I would want to hear from a suspension expert that lowering isn't going to confuse the system at all. I think most of us on here are just car nuts, not Acura suspension experts. |
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| midnightMDX |
quote:
Originally posted by csmeance
the shorter the spring, the more load is put onto the shocks, even if it is stiffer, the spring will compress at a lower rate than the shock was designed for.
Yup, eventually it will wear the shock out faster, but that doesnt mean you cant get a good use out of them. Ride quality will suffer. |
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| shootist |
quote:
Originally posted by MDiX
Lowering the suspension on the sport model will not affect the VSA. the sport suspension is in the shocks where it's control by wire going into the top of the shocks. By changing the voltage going inoto the shocks, the viscousity changes in the shock to provide a firmer ride.
\\
You missed the fact that the voltage is varied by a computer, that reads input from sensors, and then acts according to a software program. Changing a variable like ride height or stiffness will change the reaction to the computers output. |
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| bronxblaza117 |
i say lower it and throw some d's on the B#$%!
though only non-sport models of course |
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| brydon |
| Has anyone heard of anyone hacking the suspension computer? It should be possible to tell it to work with the settings for lowered springs. Probably way too much R&D for the demand though given the responses on this board :) |
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| MDiX |
| Those shocks are not continuously adjusted.......comfort or sport. Lowering will put more stress on the shocks because of the distance of the shock is shorten. When you drive over a bumpy road there is more movement on the shocks but when you drive over a smooth road there is minimal movement. Lowering it 1.5" will not damage your shocks overnight. Also lowering it will not affect your VSA because it reads it's signal from the ABS sensors where it tells the computer how much one wheel is spinning faster than the other. Don't make the MDX sound like rocket ship......it's just another piece of mechanical work. |
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| shootist |
quote:
Originally posted by MDiX
Those shocks are not continuously adjusted.......comfort or sport. Lowering will put more stress on the shocks because of the distance of the shock is shorten. When you drive over a bumpy road there is more movement on the shocks but when you drive over a smooth road there is minimal movement. Lowering it 1.5" will not damage your shocks overnight. Also lowering it will not affect your VSA because it reads it's signal from the ABS sensors where it tells the computer how much one wheel is spinning faster than the other. Don't make the MDX sound like rocket ship......it's just another piece of mechanical work.
Wrong, in so many ways. |
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| highmath |
| Man... this is getting heated...! :lurk: |
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| m500 |
This is how I would like my to look like. Nice & tastefully done. Personally I think MDX is pretty low and just need a nice set of beefy wheel & tire combo to spice it up.
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| bronxblaza117 |
quote:
Originally posted by shootist
Wrong, in so many ways.
how is he wrong? The Sport Suspension does constantly monitor the road conditions and adjust accordingly.... But i think theres no way to change it. Is it not setup in a way like a coilover? so they go hand in hand? |
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| adr5 |
| I too wouldn't mind lowering my X a couple of inches. I never go off road, so a bit of reduced ground clearance is not going to bother me. The lower CG would make the car handle better and would have the side benefit of giving you a tiny bit better gas mileage. I'm not sure what affect this would have on the sport shocks, but I can't see it being much, if any. |
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| ICENUTZ |
| you should approach comptech... They are usual backed by honda and most dealers will still honor warranty after installation... |
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| eujinc |
quote:
Originally posted by ICENUTZ
you should approach comptech... They are usual backed by honda and most dealers will still honor warranty after installation...
Do they still make aftermarket parts? They got bought up last year and it looks like they are now specializing in racing engines. I have their sport springs and sway bars on my TL for almost 7 years and have been very happy with the setup. |
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| Needsdecaf |
quote:
Originally posted by bronxblaza117
how is he wrong? The Sport Suspension does constantly monitor the road conditions and adjust accordingly.... But i think theres no way to change it. Is it not setup in a way like a coilover? so they go hand in hand?
He is wrong because he unequivocally stated:
quote:
Originally posted by MDiX
Those shocks are not continuously adjusted.......comfort or sport.
Which is so wrong it hurts. |
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| Needsdecaf |
quote:
Originally posted by csmeance
Alright, it weight 5095 pounds or somewhere around there according to the door jamb sticker. the shorter the spring, the more load is put onto the shocks, even if it is stiffer, the spring will compress at a lower rate than the shock was designed for. The SH-AWD system uses various sensors from the wheel's and suspension to coordinate where power should go.
The heaviest model, Sport Ent, is just under 4,600 pounds wet.
I am still trying to figure out how a shorter spring, puts more load on the shocks. I do not understand what you wrote "even if it was stiffer, the spring will compress at a lower rate than the shock was designed for".
Springs operate under the equation F=ka wheras F= force, k=the spring constant (stiffness) and a is the acceleration.
With a shorter, stiffer spring, the k is going to be higher. Therefore for a given force, the acceleration is going to be higher. So the car will feel a bit "choppier".
There is no additional load on the shocks. There is an increased frequency of movement given the stiffer spring, but not an increased load. Remember the purpose of a spring is to support the car, the purpose of a shock is to dampen the movement of the suspension. |
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| m500 |
quote:
Originally posted by Needsdecaf
The heaviest model, Sport Ent, is just under 4,600 pounds wet.
I am still trying to figure out how a shorter spring, puts more load on the shocks. I do not understand what you wrote "even if it was stiffer, the spring will compress at a lower rate than the shock was designed for".
Springs operate under the equation F=ka wheras F= force, k=the spring constant (stiffness) and a is the acceleration.
With a shorter, stiffer spring, the k is going to be higher. Therefore for a given force, the acceleration is going to be higher. So the car will feel a bit "choppier".
There is no additional load on the shocks. There is an increased frequency of movement given the stiffer spring, but not an increased load. Remember the purpose of a spring is to support the car, the purpose of a shock is to dampen the movement of the suspension.
I'm not a mechanic but in my own simple way of explanation is that both Shock and Spring are designed to work in combination. When you upgrade your spring to a shorter/stiffer spring that makes your shock works harder then it should. Depends on how much harder your original shock will have to work harder to compensate the new more aggressive spring setting. Your shock will either wear out slowly or bottom out completely very quickly. This is just how I see it and experimented from my pass experiences.
Hey we will never know unless someone try it. Maybe Acura has a heavy duty shock for longevity that will be able to take the new work load better and hopefully won't wear out before you sell your MDX. |
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| bronxblaza117 |
if for example on the non-sport model a smaller spring was put in place of the original springs then the struts undergo more wear then usual. this is assuming the OEM struts are used. this is true for anyone using lowering springs with original struts.
what i was trying to get at, if someone can correct me, is that on the sport model the suspension is a coilover system. That means that the springs and struts and built together, cannot be taking apart. obviously on the MDX it is a much more sophisticated system but in design its a coilover with add-ons, like active dampening system. |
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| Needsdecaf |
quote:
Originally posted by m500
I'm not a mechanic but in my own simple way of explanation is that both Shock and Spring are designed to work in combination. When you upgrade your spring to a shorter/stiffer spring that makes your shock works harder then it should. Depends on how much harder your original shock will have to work harder to compensate the new more aggressive spring setting. Your shock will either wear out slowly or bottom out completely very quickly. This is just how I see it and experimented from my pass experiences.
Again, why? Why would this be true? Someone please explain this to me. Why would the shocks work "harder"? Is it because of the increased frequency of movement as I explained above?
Springs are not more "aggressive", they are either more or less stiff. |
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| bronxblaza117 |
quote:
Originally posted by Needsdecaf
Again, why? Why would this be true? Someone please explain this to me. Why would the shocks work "harder"? Is it because of the increased frequency of movement as I explained above?
Springs are not more "aggressive", they are either more or less stiff.
i think that by him saying aggressive you are to assume more stiff.
shocks will work harder because they will be constantly under even more pressure from the shorter springs. The shocks/struts will go through more wear with shorter springs and their product life is reduced. usually nothing really happens when you use a shorter spring with stock shocks just that you will have to change them sooner. that is all. |
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| phins2rt |
A lot of info here:
http://www.carbibles.com/suspension_bible.html
Taken from that site's faq (http://www.carbibles.com/faq.html ):
I've just put sports springs on my car to lower it. Should I put sports shocks on too?
You should ideally buy springs and shocks as a matched set in a kit. When you get sports springs and use stock shocks, the shocks will tend to wear prematurely. They are designed to be a blend of comfortable ride and safe handling. By using shorter springs, the shocks are now overloaded. Getting a kit will mean that the shocks are matched to the length of springs. |
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| m500 |
quote:
Originally posted by phins2rt
A lot of info here:
http://www.carbibles.com/suspension_bible.html
Taken from that site's faq (http://www.carbibles.com/faq.html ):
I've just put sports springs on my car to lower it. Should I put sports shocks on too?
You should ideally buy springs and shocks as a matched set in a kit. When you get sports springs and use stock shocks, the shocks will tend to wear prematurely. They are designed to be a blend of comfortable ride and safe handling. By using shorter springs, the shocks are now overloaded. Getting a kit will mean that the shocks are matched to the length of springs.
Gread infos on the site. Just do a quick search on "Lowering Kits" or scroll to the end of the page. :2: |
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| Needsdecaf |
So I was right.
There's no more force. The shocks aren't working "harder", but they're working in a smaller travel range than they're used to.
Why that would cause premature wear, I'm not sure. But I guess I'll accept that.
BTW, I'm not talking out of my a** with regard to this. My Volvo has an adjustable suspension. I belong to several Volvo boards, and there are literally dozens of members who have lowered their suspensions. To date, not one has had a shock failure due to a lowered suspension. And I'm talking about as many as 75,000 plus miles. |
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| gmh8r |
The struts or shocks of a vehicle should be matched to the springs (rate) both for proper suspension operation and longevity.
Lowering springs usually have a higher spring rate "stiffer" to improve handling but also to reduce overall suspension travel to reduce bottoming out.
The job of the strut or shock is to "control" the spring and reduce/prevent suspension oscillation. This higher spring rate requires a strut/shock with appropriate valving to enable proper control.
The reduced strut/shock travel is not a problem so long as they are not bottoming out internally. The additional strut/shock load trying to damper a stiffer spring likely causes premature wear. |
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| m500 |
quote:
Originally posted by Needsdecaf
So I was right.
There's no more force. The shocks aren't working "harder", but they're working in a smaller travel range than they're used to.
Why that would cause premature wear, I'm not sure. But I guess I'll accept that.
BTW, I'm not talking out of my a** with regard to this. My Volvo has an adjustable suspension. I belong to several Volvo boards, and there are literally dozens of members who have lowered their suspensions. To date, not one has had a shock failure due to a lowered suspension. And I'm talking about as many as 75,000 plus miles.
Depends on the designed of your OEM shocks some are able to deal with shorter/stiffer spring better and thats just the differences of how fast your OEM shock will wear out on you. I have this done on my BWM 530i and its good for the 3 years that I had the car without any issue besides its get a little bit lower after the new springs set. The same thing was done to my older Honda Accord and within 6 month my shock was gone. It will bottom out on tiniest bump or dip. My 530i does the same thing but only when I speeding over rail road racks or forgot to slow down when over over speed bumps.
Its up to you and its your car. You'll have to experience it to believe it. I won't mind to have my MDX sits 2" lower to look more aggressive. |
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| eujinc |
quote:
Originally posted by bronxblaza117
what i was trying to get at, if someone can correct me, is that on the sport model the suspension is a coilover system. That means that the springs and struts and built together, cannot be taking apart. obviously on the MDX it is a much more sophisticated system but in design its a coilover with add-ons, like active dampening system.
We do not have a coilover setup. It's MacPherson struts up front & multi link in rear. Front is a typical strut/spring setup. Spring compressor is needed to separated the spring & strut. The setup in the rear has both the spring and shock located separately. Looks pretty easy to remove either. Sport & non sport are almost identical except for the electrical connection to the dampers for the Sport.
Speaking of a lowered look, I had the opportunity to carry a load of stuff (700+ lbs of floor tiles) recently in addition to 3 adults, 2 kids and luggage. Based on my calculations, I would have been about 100-150 lbs shy of the GVWR. The rear had about a 2 finger gap between the fender and tire. Looks pretty slammed. Like a really fat wagon. Only regret was not having my camera handy. Then again, after loading all those tiles I was in no mood to take pictures too.
The front was obviously higher and it was the first time I actually noticed the auto leveling headlights worked. Had to travel about 160 miles with this load and I have to say, once rolling the X didn't even feel like it was bogged down. Mileage suffered 2 less mpg overall and I was in Sport mode all the way with no noticeable bouncing. If fact, it was like business as usual. |
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| highcountrymdx |
Don't want to muddy the waters too much, but won't lowering the ride height force the MDX rear wheels to a negative camber angle? This in turn might shorten tire life, and probably negatively effect the handling of the vehicle. If that's the case, I'd hate to play test pilot on a car equipped with unapproved suspension components, the next time I need extreme handling to get me safely home. I guess that's why there are so many lawyers out there.
On the other hand, I'm sure someone will pass by the crash site and remark how cool the lowered MDX looks. |
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| csmeance |
quote:
Originally posted by highcountrymdx
Don't want to muddy the waters too much, but won't lowering the ride height force the MDX rear wheels to a negative camber angle? This in turn might shorten tire life, and probably negatively effect the handling of the vehicle. If that's the case, I'd hate to play test pilot on a car equipped with unapproved suspension components, the next time I need extreme handling to get me safely home. I guess that's why there are so many lawyers out there.
On the other hand, I'm sure someone will pass by the crash site and remark how cool the lowered MDX looks.
with a drop, if your camber is too high, you can always buy a beefy camber kit. If it's not too aggresive, you can always have the shop adjust the toe to get the camber good. |
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| JP422 |
Hahaha... that's funny, Lately I was wishing the X had a button to RAISE the suspension!! If it could be lowered on a button that would be fantastic too (great for loading my baby boy)... but when I was launching my jetski's... my X had to go so deep into the water (when I step outfrom driver's seat, I'm in about 2-3" of water). I guess that's the price to pay for a short wheelbase and short overhang...
...And I don't bash guys who want to lower any/every car they have... I've been lowering cars for 17 yrs now (and lifting a few :p ), and there are many performance/styling/aero advantages... but warranty and reliability not always being part of it. If you want to pioneer a route that way for new cars... more power to you!
When you do figure something out, please post pics and results! I love fanatics!~
Personally, I think it can be done. Just need the springs. If you have the sport shocks, then you can leave them on the sport setting and have a nice ride. (subtle drop only... 1-1.5"?) That's not too much to offset much camber... and even if it was, then you'd be finding companies to make new camber kits for us...right? :D |
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