| jtc |
| I bought my 2005 MDX in January...coming up on 60K miles and dealer quoted $675...seems high - in fact higher than my previous Volvo comparable servicing. Thoughts? |
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| keremoner |
| That is why I never go to the dealer. Find a reliable independent repair shop specializing in Acuras. You'll easily save a couple of hundred dollars. |
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| phins2rt |
Check your owner's manual and then call the dealer and have him quote you prices based on what needs to be done (i.e. not the inspections). Here is what is needed from the owners link:
Replace engine oil.
Rotate tires (follow pattern on page 335 of your owner's manual).
Replace engine oil filter.
* Check parking brake adjustment.
* Inspect brake hoses and lines (including ABS).
* Check all fluid levels, condition of fluids and check for leaks.
* Inspect exhaust system.
* Inspect fuel lines and connections.
Replace air cleaner element.
*Inspect and adjust drive belts.
Replace dust and pollen filter.
Replace rear differential fluid. (Necessary for proper break-in of the VTM-4 rear differential.)
Anything with an asterisk is an inspection. You could do all of this yourself for under $150 easy. $675 is way too much!! |
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| JeffK |
Please excuse the sarcasm:
"Here is a news Bulletin": Service writers are on salary plus commission! That's right salary plus commission: They get a percentage of the cost of all work done.
This salary plus commission has been going on forever, although few know it.
When you understand the implications, you will understand why so much unnecessary work is done.
But do not despair: This can work to your advantage: Never, I repeat never, pair for inspections! When the technician does the requested work (more later) he will do an inspection looking for things wrong to be corrected.
Remember the service writer is on commission: He encourages the technician to find things wrong.
So why pay for something (inspections) that will be done without charge???
Work to be done: As posted over and over again on hundreds of threads, read your owner's manual! Then write up a list of things that need to be done.
Instruct your service writer to do only the things you have listed and that any additional work must have your prior approval.
The 60,000 miles service should be less than $200!
Good Luck!
JeffK |
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| proman |
Good point!
Also keep in mind that many service writers play tricks on the pricing. When you ask to drop the inspection items, although he may charge you $200 for it, he may just give you $30 off to let you feel it really doesn't save you money.
So, don't pay for inspections. It's like you pay them to let them rob you. The dealer is eager to check your car out to find if there is anything "out of spec" so they can threaten you to replace/repair it. Here "out of spec" doesn't mean something is "wrong", but out of the new car spec, which is a very strict standard, so they can make $$$ out of it. Examples like you got a little chattering on the steering wheel, they want to replace all 4 tires, a little chattering while braking, they want to replace all 4 rotors and pads plus flush the system, etc. Yes, strictly speaking, this will ensure 100% there is nothing can go wrong after the repair. But the fact is, there might only be .0000001% chance that something can go wrong if you don't do the repair. And it may not happen for another 100 years. To me, it makes absolutely no difference and is totally uncessary. It wastes money, wastes material, and wastes the resources on earth.
So, again, read the manual, educate yourself and tell them what to do, not let them tell you what they want to do. |
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| lcboysfan |
| Just got quoted a price for the 75k service for 150$ from and Honda/Acura repair shop..they are trying to make a killing off of you |
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| jtc |
| I just called one of the other dealers in town and they quoted $819...it just gets better and better. |
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| wasjr |
jtc, when you purchased your X did you check previous service records? For example, you need to determine if the transmission and the VTM rear differential fluid were changed on schedule. The prior service will determine what you need to have done this particular time.
I fully agree with the comments above. My dealer's suggested maintenance is more frequent and more involved (avoid the $25 fuel injector treatment) than the factory recommended schedule. I recently had the 45k service and they wanted to flush and change the engine coolant. However, this one time you may need to do more than the factory 60k recommendation to get current. |
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| BillHeart |
I just spoke with my service manager.. you're probably being quoted on a "D" Service which is generally due at 30/60/90/120k/etc
It's the big and expensive one but a lot of work is done to your vehicle.
We charge $600 for said service or thereabouts (Plus tax, environmental charges, etc). According to my service manager a 1st Gen MDX gets Trans fluid, air filter, oil change, VTM-4 fluid, wiper blades, 4-wheel alignment, brake, coolant and PS fluids at this service.
So perhaps that is what you are being quoted on? If all that work is being done, $675 sounds about right. If it's just an oil change, $675 is highway robbery, we charge about $34 plus tax etc on just an oil change without synthetic oil which is roughly the going rate at most dealerships. |
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| JeffK |
Dear BillHeart:
As I previously posted your posts on finance, etc, are welcome and are a solid addition to the board.
But, when you go to the service manager to see what work is to be done and the cost thereof, you are only repeating what he tells you and as many of us have posted those costs are highly inflated.
From the owner's manual, at 60,000 miles:
Replace oil and filter
Replace dust and pollen filter
Replace air cleaner element
Replace VTM 4-rear drive differential fluid
The balance of the "work" are inspections and nothing else.
So your manager's "D" schedule is for four items, plus inspections.
Hardly worth:
"$600 for said service or thereabouts (Plus tax, environmental charges, etc). "
JeffK |
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| wasjr |
Jeff, I will take up for BillHeart on this one. Please reread his post. The $600 is not just for inspections. His dealership, like the one I use, includes several services in addition to those called for in the manual or on the Acura website.
While I won't comment on the pricing or whether the services are necessary, they actually perform additional services and not just inspections. It is up to the customer to decide what specific services they need.
BillHeart, thanks for your participation on the site. Your perspective is very valuable. |
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| JeffK |
Dear wasjr:
I think you should re-read my post and your owner's manual
The "includes several services in addition to those called for in the manual or on the Acura website" that you make reference to are:
wiper blades
wheel alignment
The balance are inspections, hardly worth $400 extra!
As to wiper blades, I get them from Tim on an as needed basis ($17 for front and rear) and the wheel alignment - well there are so many threads on this, I do not want to rehash it over here.
But basically my position is that if the car does not pull and the tires are wearing evenly, I believe in the old saying:
"If it ain't broke don't fix it!"
I have a tire gauge and periodically check my tires for wear. If they are wearing evenly, I leave them alone.
I have heard too many horror stories about cars with no apparent problem, having an alignment only to create and have problems.
As I previously mentioned, all service managers are on commission - they get a percentage of the bill. The more work done, the more they make.
With this in mind, as I previously posted, inspections will be made - so there is absolutely no reason or need to pay for them.
So I leave it to you - follow your owners manual and the Acura web site and spend less than $200 - or listen to your service manage and spend close to $700 for inspections, wheel alignment and wiper blades!
JeffK |
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| BillHeart |
Jeff,
If the car does not need a wheel alignment, it does not get one.
However, and this is based on my experience in appraising and purchasing, oh, I dunno, 20 MDXs a month...
Rarely do they have tires that are exactly evenly worn.
Rarely do they come in with wiper blades that work like new.
If the customer wants ONLY what is in the manual, we'll happily do that.
Of course, I personally flush the brakes on my own cars annually. Perhaps that's why my nearly 12yr old 740iL has never had a hydraulic issue and has perfectly clean brake caliper pistons with nary a pit on them.
My point was also to illustrate that $600 ought to buy you an awful lot of work. |
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| proman |
Billheart,
I believe you missed the point. It's not how much work that money buys you. But if it's necessary work! I can charge you $2000 and, hey, it buys you tons of work done on your car. I will take apart all your wheel bearing and repack them with new grease. I will take apart your engine and tranny, clean them up and replace any part that does not work like new, so you will have an engine that work like new. Will you pay for it?
Follow the owner's manual for maintenance! Yes, you can replace brake fluid more often, but the question is still, is it necessary? Is it a overkill? Normally it's 30K miles/3 years. Did you do it yourself or you ask the dealer to do it? If it's the dealer, they must love you. Did they ever recommend you to do it every month?
On the tire wear, you missed the point again. What said is, you should make educated decision if you need the alignment. Not just go in the dealer and do the "package". And I am not sure what you mean "If the car does not need a wheel alignment, it does not get one". How do you know if it needs alignment? And I doubt even if it's decided not needed, there is no charge?
And, lastly, I have never seen a happy face in any dealer if I said I only want to do what's specified in the manual. And they always do the pricing by taking off items from the package so they can still charge the most inflated items and make $$$. I always have to tell them forget about the package, I just want to do this this this, give me a quote on each and a total price..... |
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| JeffK |
Dear Proman:
Well said: AMEN
BTW, on Wednesday I am taking in '06 for the "15,000 mile" service. After checking my owner's manual, I will give the service advisor a list of things to do:
Change the oil and filter
Change the VTM-4 rear drive differential
Nothing else!
Should cost less than $150.
JeffK |
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| BillHeart |
As I said before, I wasn't saying that every car necessarially needed all of this work, but we do test drive each car that comes in for service, and if the tech sees that the car is pulling or shows uneven tire wear, we'll suggest an alignment. If the trans fluid shows to be dirty or smells burnt, we suggest changing it.
As an example, most of the 30k mile used Acuras that I buy have trans fluid that is not new looking by any stretch of the imagination so I change it before they hit the lot.
And I do almost all of the work on my own cars myself, I happen to own a lift as well. I am very anal about maintinence, the best brake fluid that you realistically are going to buy is $15/bottle (Ate Typ 200 or Super Blue Racing) or so. Brake fluid is also hygroscopic, personally I won't let any of my cars go for more than 12 months on brake fluid, the cars that I track get it after every track event.
Take some of your 12 month old brake fluid and send it to Blackstone labs (IIRC they do oil analysis on brake fluid) and see how much contamination it has.
A Caliper for my M5 is $500. An Engine rebuild on my M5 is $10,000, an oil change every 3k is $50 or so.
Again, it's always the customer's decision, but more often than not, a car with 60k miles on it frequently can use more than just an oil change. |
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| JeffK |
Dear BillHeart:
You posted:
"As I said before, I wasn't saying that every car necessarially needed all of this work, but we do test drive each car that comes in for service, and if the tech sees that the car is pulling or shows uneven tire wear, we'll suggest an alignment. If the trans fluid shows to be dirty or smells burnt, we suggest changing it."
I do not know where your dealership is, but my dealership, never ever test drives a vehicle before service, unless there is a specific complaint and then reluctantly. In fact it is the service advisor who will test drive the car not the mechanic
Reason: Mechanics get paid by book rates and there is no book rate for test driving a vehicle.
I think you should start to differentiate between what you do to a trade-in that you take in for re-sale and what is done by your service department for a customer's car.
Your comments about transmission fluid and the mechanic smelling the fluid are outright ludicrous - and they do not warrant a reply!
You posts are starting to sound like a shill for your service department.
BTW, I have had two BMW 740il and the recommended change in the brake fluid is every two years, not every year. For some reason the German's like to change their brake fluid more often than everyone else. I read somewhere that is because of the very soft pads they use (see brake dust on wheels of German cars) and this may be the reason for the more frequent fluid change.
As I posted previously, your input regarding financing are valuable to this board, but your posts regarding service are not.
JeffK |
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| MDX4now |
I don't think anyone is saying they're trying to cheap out on their $45K car and "only change the oil at 60K miles." They're just saying that many of those typical dealer-added fees and services aren't entirely needed.
Per Acura, under severe conditions, they recommend the following items be addressed in addition to changing the oil...
Rotate tires
Replace air cleaner element
Replace VTM-4 rear differential fluid
Replace automatic transmission fluid
Replace transfer fluid
Replace dust and pollen filter
+ Inspections (and brake fluid change @3 years)
No regular scheduled maintenance check (at least on an Acura) is worth $600+ dollars, in my opinion.
Personally, I'll either trust my local mechanic *and* owner's manual before what my "service advisor" recommends at the dealer...I've been burned too many times in the past.
Now the 2007+ MDX's with the Maintenance Minder should completely take out the question of "Does my car *really* need this changed and inspected* since it calculates everything based on some complex algorithm that takes into account mileage and driving habits. |
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| wasjr |
Guys it sounds like the service departments at the dealers you frequent do the same things that mine does, and BillHeart's does. They have their own recommended service package and price it accordingly. As was said, and I agree with, it is up to the customer to know what they need and purchase ONLY those services that they need. I do just what you do. I have a list of the things I want done and present it to the service advisor. I have found that my dealer's prices are not extravagant, they just include services in their packages that I don't want.
Jeff, all I was merely pointing out in my earlier post that my read of BillHeart's post was that their $600 package included, in addition to the items you listed, an alignment and REPLACEMENT of brake, transmission, coolant, and power steering fluids as well as wipers, not just inspections as you had stated.
I really think we are all on the same page on this issue. |
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