| velocipedist |
| I just bought a CPO 06 with 47k with NAV and RES. paid $24K including doc fee. Got financing with Honda Finance for 0.9%. I am kind of second guessing myself here but what you all think of this deal? |
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| BillHeart |
0.9%? When did that come out? As far as I know we only have 3.9 on CPO MDXs.
But you did get a very good deal. |
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| velocipedist |
| I am not exactly sure when that came out but that's the rate I got from them. |
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| midnightMDX |
| Sounds like a good deal! :4: |
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| BillHeart |
quote:
Originally posted by velocipedist
I am not exactly sure when that came out but that's the rate I got from them.
It's the 36 month program, had a brain fart :)
0.9 up to 36 months, 2.9 up to 60.. CPO MDXs. |
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| velocipedist |
| You are correct it is for 36 months at 0.9%. Sorry I didn't specify that in my post. |
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| wasjr |
quote:
Originally posted by midnightMDX
Sounds like a good deal! :4:
+1 |
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| tygger |
| Sounds pretty good to me. What were they originally asking for it? |
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| tygger |
| Cool. So you basically got a little over 3K off. Thanks! I'm trying to determine how much off I should target when buying in that price range. |
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| tygger |
Wow. Then he really did get a deal! If the going price should be $29K and he got it for $24K, I'd say that's a pretty nice discount.
Where does it mention in the link the $29K is for a CPO?
Thanks! |
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| JeffK |
I leave to you to decide if there really is a $9,000 spread between wholesale and retail.
Usually there is not.
Kbb.com wholesale has been shown to be pretty accurate.
Starting at $20,000, add in $2,000 for transportation, replacing worn parts, etc., $1,000 for certifying the car plus dealer profit of $1500 and you get $24,500. Reduce the dealer profit to $1,000 and you get $24,000.
Velocipedist paid $24,000 which seems just about right.
JeffK |
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| BillHeart |
Again,
KBB is off here. In this case, KBB is below actual wholesale. Not common, but it can happen.
Wholesale all depends where and how they bought the car. Reality is that an 05 Nav/DVD with 47k is worth about $19,500-20k wholesale. Of course it all depends on color, if it was Desert Rock, I could easily see this being an OK deal, if you bought a Nighthawk/Ebony or an Aspen White Pearl one then you flat-out stole it.
I'd say it's a $23k wholesale unit, depending on the color maybe more, maybe less. Figure it's a typical color combo like Sagebrush/Quartz or Nighthawk/Saddle then about $23k is the number.
Figure on a 47k mile rig I could get hit for as much as $1,500 on recon, and then I have $580 to certify it, you still got a very cheap deal.
Well done, now enjoy it! :) |
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| BillHeart |
Also,
What part of the country are we talking about? That can make a bit of a difference right now. |
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| JeffK |
Thanks Bill for you input - I can count on you to post like clock work.
But remember you are a used car manager and it seems that you agree with KBB when their prices are high and disagree when they are low.
I suspect that if anything the KBB prices are high as there is a 30 to 45 day lag between their prices and the actual market. That means today we are seeing prices from the end of April/beginning of May.
In the last 30 days, at least where I live on Long Island, gas has gone up by $.30 a gallon. As gas continues to go up, the demand for all SUV's, MDX included, are going down.
As you correctly point out, Honda is offering rebates on the '08 MDX, special lease rates and low financing on both new and CPO's.
Do you think they are doing this because the MDX's are flying out the door?
I have used KBB for over 15 years and I find their wholesale price always to be at market or slightly above.
JeffK |
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| BillHeart |
Jeff,
I personally don't pay any attention to KBB myself as it's just not an accurate gauge of the market but bear in mind that as the used car manager of an Acura Dealership I am the one responsible for doing the following:
Buying used inventory
Appraising Trade-Ins
Pricing our used vehicles so that they move quickly.
As of June 2nd, 2007 we had 116 used cars out for the year.
As of today (I started at this store in January) we have about 160 out for the year.
So I must be doing something right! :)
I base what MDXs are worth on a few select criteria...
1) What is this MDX worth at auction?
2) What is this MDX worth on my lot?
3) What can I buy an MDX like this one for on VIPS?
If I can buy said MDX on VIPS for, say, $20k and they are doing close to that at the auction, then that tells me that market value is about $20k. If KBB says $17k or $23k, it means nothing to me. The reason that I pay such close attention to auction data is because it shows me what other dealers are actually paying for cars in actual transactions.
In other words, KBB can say that a car is worth $X but if dealers are paying $Y, then $x means nothing.
But you have to know how to read auction reports as they only show you the units that actually sell. Some cars sell at very high percentages (I was at the last Acura Remarketing sale, very few MDXs went unsold) and some, like Diesel Pickups right now, are very tough to get any bids on.
I am still selling nice clean MDXs quickly, as long as they are in nice shape, priced right, and in good colors (I am sure that if I had a Desert Rock one that I'd be stuck with it, and I was stuck with a Redrock Pearl one not too long ago but that was no surprise).
I will say this, if anything we're seeing a strengthening of the CPO market that's taking up the new car market slack. |
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| velocipedist |
| I bought it in Greenville, SC. It is Billet Silver Metallic with Ebony interior. |
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| BillHeart |
quote:
Originally posted by velocipedist
I bought it in Greenville, SC. It is Billet Silver Metallic with Ebony interior.
They are a few dollars cheaper in the southeast right now, but you still got a fantastic deal on it.
If I had to go out and buy your MDX at auction right now, and it didn't need a penny spent on it in the shop, I think that I would own it for at or over what you paid for it with certification. |
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| JeffK |
BillHeart:
I think for the sake of the board, you should change you name to "Dr. Feelgood".
No matter what anyone pays, you consistently say it is a good deal!
As far as you are concerned no one has ever overpaid for an MDX; you would buy the car at that price; and everyone has gotten a great price.
I suggest that when it comes time to trade, we all give you a call first!
Jeff |
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| BillHeart |
I dunno about that Jeff, there's been posts on here where I have kept my mouth shut, including some where I could have sold a lower mile CPO MDX for less.
I'm not officially a sponsor yet (Waiting for the powers that be to OK it and tell me where to send a check, no I have no desire to sell parts/accessories on here) so I want to watch what I say.
I have pointed out that I thought certain prices were beatable when I have seen so.
But if someone buys a CPO MDX for $1,000 over what I would expect to see said MDX sell for at a dealer auction, then I will assume that they got a good deal. Even if the OP bought an Amazon Green or Desert Rock 06 they still got a good price on it.
I don't like to discuss actual transactions at my store on here in detail, but here goes... I just sent an 06 MDX to the auction. It was Black with Saddle, it was a Touring, no nav, no DVD. 38k miles. It had a left rear quarter panel, front fender and both doors replaced. The B pillar and rocker panel were also repaired. It had been in a nasty accident and while it looked perfect, it could not be certified and I would not retail it. I ran it at auction with frame/unibody damage announced. I got $22k for it.
No Nav, no DVD, frame damage.
$22,000
So is a CPO MDX with Nav and DVD with albeit 9k more miles worth $2k more than wholesale on a frame damaged one?
Next time I go to Manheim you are welcome to come along and see for yourself! |
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| MDX4now |
BillHeart,
How much can a "bad" color affect trade? $500? $1,000?
I'm not trading in my car anytime soon (I think! ;) ), but before I even bought my '06 Steel Blue, I knew the '03 Sage Brush I was trading in was a more popular color.
But at the time, I ruled out silver for being too common, black for showing everything, Red Rock for the same reasons why I didn't get it in '03, Amazon Green solely for not being my cup of tea, Desert Rock for being too boring, and as for Sage Brush, I was trading that color in.
This left me with Steel Blue. It may come off a little too-teal for my tastes in direct sunlight, but my wife and I liked the color, and still consider it a huge improvement over the old Havasu Blue that was out in '03.
Anyway, long story short, in your experience, how negatively would a niche color like Steel Blue affect trade-in price in today's market? I’m assuming the longer I keep the car, the less color etc. will affect the bottom line. |
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| BillHeart |
Color does affect Value, I would say that, from what I have seen with my own eyes at auction, as much as $2,000 on a late model MDX (05-06). On a wholesale level that's 10%.
Generally, White and Black are the best bets, right now. Well, let me clarify.
Tafetta White with Quartz isn't all that special, it's average. Like basically all Japanese Luxury cars, Pearl White with Tan interior is probably the most expensive color for me to go out and buy. Right up there with it is Nighthawk Black Pearl with Ebony interior. A lot of what's driving NBP/Ebony prices high is the export market, Russians love Black/Black but they also fly off of our lot.
After those, solid colors on MDXs are Black/Saddle, Silver/Ebony, Sagebrush/Ebony and then I'd say Sage/Quartz, Silver/Quartz, Steel Blue is OK, kind of a hit or miss color and a bit weaker than the norm even if I like it. People love it or hate it. I don't normally go out looking for Steel Blue MDXs. Sagebrush is one of our best selling colors.
Weak colors are Redrock, Desert Rock, and that AWFUL Brown they had in 04, that's like selling bikinis to Eskimos. |
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| MDX4now |
I really would have liked Red Rock if it was just a *little* more RED.
Sage Brush was an alright color. For the 3.5 years we had it, I still never knew how to describe it. I was very surprised how popular it became on the Pilot, Odyssey, and MDX.
I'm not surprised about Steel Blue being more of a hit/or miss color, but I'm still glad we got it...I'm more relieved we got one of the few Steel Blues with Ebony interior vs. the Quartz.
I had the Quartz on my Sage Brush, and even with the all-weather mats on top of the carpet, the light gray carpet stained terribly and was very hard to clean (in the spots the mats didn't cover). The black interior hides everything so much better...at least in my experience. |
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| BillHeart |
Here's what I always tell people, if you have a preference, buy the color that you LIKE.
Personally I would never buy a Pearl White MDX for myself, it's not my preference. If I did buy a new one 3 years ago I'd have probably gone Nighthawk/Ebony. Personally my overall preference would be for an 04 in that Midnight Blue, that's my personal favorite but the market does not always agree.
And at the end of the day if it's a $2,000 swing in value, you need to ask yourself if it's worth it. Personally, on a $40k car, it's not an awful lot if it means you drive the MDX that you really want for 3-4 years.
And yeah, Sagebrush sells like hotcakes and it's weird as usually dark greens are very weak on Acuras (Deepgreen is the kiss of death on a TL, only Gold is worse). I call it a Charcoal Green which seems to work. |
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| MDX4now |
That's funny about the Deep Green Pearl being the kiss of death on the TL's...
Our neighbors have an '04 Deep Green TL and as far as I can tell, the Deep Green is almost identical to Sage Brush.
Oh well, too confusing to try and understand the market I guess!
Going back to my Steel Blue, I will say it's nice going into the parking lot at CostCo and being able to spot my MDX in a second's time vs. when I had Sage Brush! |
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| daveog |
Late April I bought a 06 MDX Steel Blue/Quartz (my favorite colors), 38K, non-touring, non-everything for $21,000 (not CPO). Carfax clean and no accidents or anything. All 100% functional and clean.
I bought it in Atlanta area and drove it up to the northeast. (No winter salt corrosion)!!
Absolutely LOVE it and consider it a steal!! A great vehicle!!!
I looked hard for the best deal, but these car are worth more than the market is demanding right now. |
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| JeffK |
As I posted, and contrary to BillHeart (Dr. Feelgood), $21,000 plus CPO,($1,000) plus Nav + Res,($2,000) ($24,000) less 9,000 extra miles, ($1,000) ($23,000) plus two months later with more depreciation and rising gas prices, $23,000 to $24,000 seems about right.
JeffK |
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| velocipedist |
| Wouldn't you have to throw in another grand or two for the touring option, in addition to the ones you mentioned? |
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| JeffK |
No: As per the post of BillHeart the NAV and RES add about $2000. Remember you can only get NAV and RES with Touring.
Current wholesale Touring without Nav and Res: $19,000 see:
http://www.kbb.com/KBB/UsedCars/Pri...QuizConditions=
Current wholesale Touring with Nav and Res: $20,000 see:
http://www.kbb.com/KBB/UsedCars/Pri...QuizConditions=
Base wholesale: slightly less than $17,000 see:
http://www.kbb.com/KBB/UsedCars/Pri...QuizConditions=
In future, for an '06, add $3000 above base for Touring with Nav and RES.
To the $20,000 add CPO ($1000) dealer profit, ($1000) and you get $22,000/23,000.
In today's environment, regardless of what BillHeart says, all SUV are depreciating at a very, very rapid rate.
JeffK
(I used zip code 11050 to obtain prices) |
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| MDX4now |
| While the lease residuals from 2006/07 may not entirely reflect the change in SUV values that we're seeing today, I have a feeling the banks setting the residuals *today* will be quickly changing their tune. |
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| JeffK |
Residual: You are 100% correct - unless Honda/Acura, in order to make sales supports the leases with either a low money factor or supported residuals.
As per my many posts, one of the prime reasons to lease, is to protect yourself from unexpected rapid depreciation.
For example, the residual on my base '06, which terminates in October 31, 2009 is $20,000.
My base '06 is not worth $20,000 today (closer to $17,000) and will be worth even less 16 months from now.
By leasing, I have effectively shifted the cost of depreciation from myself to the finance company - where it should have been all along.
By giving up "pride of ownership" I expect to save in depreciation alone vs. buying between $4,000 and $5,000!
That "pride of ownership" will cost you more than $4,000 in depreciation plus many thousands more in loss of use of money.
JeffK |
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| MDX4now |
Gosh, so dramatic...
quote:
That "pride of ownership" will cost you more than $4,000 in depreciation plus many thousands more in loss of use of money.
Since I bought my MDX, do you think I should declare bankruptcy now, or wait a week or two? ;) |
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| BillHeart |
quote:
Originally posted by velocipedist
Wouldn't you have to throw in another grand or two for the touring option, in addition to the ones you mentioned?
The additional value for Navi and RES depends on what year the vehicle in question is of course. On an 05, Navi adds about $800 and RES adds about $600. Aftermarket RES seems to add very little value to these.
On an 06 it's about $900 and $650
Touring adds about $1,500 or so to the value of an MDX, and the market supports this.
Jeff, there's no way your 06 Base is worth $17k right now unless it has over 50k miles on it (The kiss of death on late model luxury cars, being out of warranty). Lower mileage 06 Bases are hovering around the $20-21k mark on the market. (30k miles, roughly 15k/yr) It sure won't be worth $20k at the end of the lease however.
Oh, and the only 06 Nav+RES that I found that sold for under $20k nationwide had 68k miles on it (That's VERY high) and it was a couple hundred shy of $20k.
Let's look at actual market activity for a 30k 06 MDX with average mileage. Again, based on what dealers are actually buying these for.
Currently Galves is pretty close to actual market on MDXs, very close. Which, as I have discussed before, is why it's the only book that any dealer in the northeast generally uses to appraise a trade.
06 with 31k miles... going by VIN codes here, (2HNYD18?
182 $20,900 (Base)
186 $22,650 (Touring)
187 $23,300 (RES)
188 $23,550 (Navi)
189 $24,200 (Navi and RES)
In reality that's pretty close to the mark, they are about $500 low on 186s, and the 189s in particular are doing what they usually do, more than $1,000 over Galves.
If KBB says $20k trade-in value on a 2006 Nav+RES then they are 20% under actual market value.
It shows why some of these online guides are so far off.
Take an 05 Navi with, say, 36k miles. That's a $20-21k or so Vehicle right now For the sake of ease, I told Edmunds that it was Grey which I figured to be Sagebrush, a middle of the road color valuewise.
VMR says it's worth $23,650
edmunds.com says it's worth $22,926
kbb.com says it's worth $19,620 (Wow!)
NADA says it's worth $25,200 (HA!)
Kelly was close, very close.
Most of the other online guides were way off the mark, as much as $4,000 or more over what I can buy them in an actual wholesale environment.
But sales are just horrible, the last 4 that I bought it's taken a week to sell 2 of them. Granted they are just getting ready for the lot right now but still, it's now taking us an average of 2-3 weeks to move them, we're just struggling ;)
Jeff, I wasn't kidding, I'm going to Manheim PA for the big Acura sale on the 19th of this month, you are welcome to come along and see the market for yourself since you don't seem to agree with my thoughts on the value of these vehicles. I'm not being facetious, I'm dead serious. |
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| BillHeart |
Oh,
And I used 12590 as a ZIP code for those vehicles. Jeff, perhaps you were using Chernobyl Russia or something? Dunno how they were close to the mark on the 05 and so far off on the 06s. |
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| ncelk |
| I guess I did ok then when I traded mine for $29k the last day of March. |
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