| ExRiGuy |
As some of you know, my experience with my 07 MDX has not been a positive one -- it has been a seemingly endless stream of issues (this week it was the horn deciding that it will only work intermittently). My dealer has just made things worse. At any rate, I decided about 2 months ago to sell the car because I am just too frustrated with it -- which pains me because I bought it to run it up to 100k and it is a major investment that I didn't want to have to make twice in a year's time.
Problem is, after listing it for 60 days on one of the two major listing sites, I have had only one offer -- for $29k! This is an 07 Sport that stickered for $45,xxx and that I paid about $42.5k for. Mileage is a bit high to be fair, at 24k, but I also have an AcuraCare 100k zero deductible warranty that comes with the car -- a pretty good deal.
What's the root of the lack of demand? Gas? This isn't a "giant" SUV -- and gas mileage isn't that bad, plus it is functionally close to a minivan. The only other culprit I can think of is initial quality rankings, which for JD Power were pretty low. At any rate, $16k of depreciation off sticker seems pretty weak for only a year's time -- or was I just expecting too much from a premium Japanese brand? |
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| synergest1 |
quote:
Originally posted by ExRiGuy
As some of you know, my experience with my 07 MDX has not been a positive one -- it has been a seemingly endless stream of issues (this week it was the horn deciding that it will only work intermittently). My dealer has just made things worse. At any rate, I decided about 2 months ago to sell the car because I am just too frustrated with it -- which pains me because I bought it to run it up to 100k and it is a major investment that I didn't want to have to make twice in a year's time.
Problem is, after listing it for 60 days on one of the two major listing sites, I have had only one offer -- for $29k! This is an 07 Sport that stickered for $45,xxx and that I paid about $42.5k for. Mileage is a bit high to be fair, at 24k, but I also have an AcuraCare 100k zero deductible warranty that comes with the car -- a pretty good deal.
What's the root of the lack of demand? Gas? This isn't a "giant" SUV -- and gas mileage isn't that bad, plus it is functionally close to a minivan. The only other culprit I can think of is initial quality rankings, which for JD Power were pretty low. At any rate, $16k of depreciation off sticker seems pretty weak for only a year's time -- or was I just expecting too much from a premium Japanese brand?
Just for curiosity sake, have you seen what a dealer would offer on trade? |
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| polyian |
| It's normal to depreciate 30% in the first two years. And with gas prices high you can expect pressure to push prices down on SUV's and trucks. Your best option is to keep the vehicle as long as possible to maximize your return on investment. This year I bought used for the first time in many years because I am tired of getting slapped with depreciation. There are nice well cared for manufacturer certified vehicles out there that someone else has taken the depreciation hit on... and you can purchase warranty on them. |
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| bigpecs1 |
quote:
Originally posted by ExRiGuy
As some of you know, my experience with my 07 MDX has not been a positive one -- it has been a seemingly endless stream of issues (this week it was the horn deciding that it will only work intermittently). My dealer has just made things worse. At any rate, I decided about 2 months ago to sell the car because I am just too frustrated with it -- which pains me because I bought it to run it up to 100k and it is a major investment that I didn't want to have to make twice in a year's time.
Problem is, after listing it for 60 days on one of the two major listing sites, I have had only one offer -- for $29k! This is an 07 Sport that stickered for $45,xxx and that I paid about $42.5k for. Mileage is a bit high to be fair, at 24k, but I also have an AcuraCare 100k zero deductible warranty that comes with the car -- a pretty good deal.
What's the root of the lack of demand? Gas? This isn't a "giant" SUV -- and gas mileage isn't that bad, plus it is functionally close to a minivan. The only other culprit I can think of is initial quality rankings, which for JD Power were pretty low. At any rate, $16k of depreciation off sticker seems pretty weak for only a year's time -- or was I just expecting too much from a premium Japanese brand?
1st off: a CAR is not an investment! Unless you are a New/Used car dealer or in a rental/taxi business. Everybody knows that the moment you drive a car off a lot, it decreases in value. Now in my book, that is not an investment. If you dont want to be hit by depreciation, either you keep the X, or file a lemon law suit or whatever with ACURA. :) |
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| synergest1 |
quote:
Originally posted by ExRiGuy
As some of you know, my experience with my 07 MDX has not been a positive one -- it has been a seemingly endless stream of issues (this week it was the horn deciding that it will only work intermittently). My dealer has just made things worse. At any rate, I decided about 2 months ago to sell the car because I am just too frustrated with it -- which pains me because I bought it to run it up to 100k and it is a major investment that I didn't want to have to make twice in a year's time.
Problem is, after listing it for 60 days on one of the two major listing sites, I have had only one offer -- for $29k! This is an 07 Sport that stickered for $45,xxx and that I paid about $42.5k for. Mileage is a bit high to be fair, at 24k, but I also have an AcuraCare 100k zero deductible warranty that comes with the car -- a pretty good deal.
What's the root of the lack of demand? Gas? This isn't a "giant" SUV -- and gas mileage isn't that bad, plus it is functionally close to a minivan. The only other culprit I can think of is initial quality rankings, which for JD Power were pretty low. At any rate, $16k of depreciation off sticker seems pretty weak for only a year's time -- or was I just expecting too much from a premium Japanese brand?
Another issue when selling on eBay, if you have the starting price set high that may scare of potential buyers as well as having a low rating if you haven’t sold many items. |
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| BillHeart |
This car is worth more than $29,000.
Did you get that offer on eBay? I am not surprised, many of the offers I get on there make me think "Well I could always get that # if I justy hit the thing with a sledgehammer a bunch of times and send it to the auction"
The offer that you got was still $4k+ shy of auction wholesale. Galves (Which is a pretty darned accurate price guide in my experience) figures it for $32,850 Wholesale for a 24k 07 MDX Sport/Nav.
Where are you located? And have you shopped it to some of your local Acura dealers? Market on used 07 MDXs is still very strong.
What color combo is it? Any paintwork? |
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| JeffK |
As I have posted before, BillHeart should be called "Dr. Feelgood".
He posts that 2008 MDX's are going for $1,000 over invoice, they are not -they are going at invoice less $2,000 incentive, and he cites different sources that make the MDX worth more than it is.
We must never forget the BillHeart is a used car salesmen - so it is to his advantage to "pump up prices".
For many, many years I have used KBB.com to determine the actual value of a car. I use their trade in value in "good" condition to ball park the price.
BillHeart has posted that a 2007 Sport will bring between $1500 and $2000 more than a base.
Based on KBB.com, your 2007 is worth about $31,000. see:
http://www.kbb.com/KBB/UsedCars/Pri...QuizConditions=
So the offer of $29,000 while low, is not offensive.
JeffK |
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| ExRiGuy |
| Well, to follow up, I took it to a dealer this weekend and they offered $29.5 k in trade. I might just hold on to the thing right now as I suspect if the gas bubble pops values may bounce a bit. Argh |
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| JeffK |
Just my $.02:
Cars very rarely, if ever go up in price. They are a depreciating asset.
Most of us are prepared for $5.00 gallon gas.
I am not saying to sell your MDX, but if you want to, it will never be worth more than it is today.
BTW, in New York, when you trade in a car, that amount is deducted from the purchase price.
You only pay sales tax on the net amount (agreed on selling price less the trade in).
In New York our sales tax is 8.625%. The tax savings on $29,500 is $2519. So in effect a trade of $29,500 is like selling it for $32,000 and there is no hassle.
JeffK |
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| polyian |
| The same tax savings apply here in BC except our combined federal (5%) and provincial tax (7%) is 12%...well worth trading here. On that $29,500 the tax savings would be $3687.50 for an effective sell price of $33187.50. Of course the vehicle MSRP is higher as well. I traded my accord on the MDX because the tax savings and trade gave me as much as a private sale without the hassle. |
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| BillHeart |
quote:
Originally posted by JeffK
As I have posted before, BillHeart should be called "Dr. Feelgood".
He posts that 2008 MDX's are going for $1,000 over invoice, they are not -they are going at invoice less $2,000 incentive, and he cites different sources that make the MDX worth more than it is.
We must never forget the BillHeart is a used car salesmen - so it is to his advantage to "pump up prices".
For many, many years I have used KBB.com to determine the actual value of a car. I use their trade in value in "good" condition to ball park the price.
BillHeart has posted that a 2007 Sport will bring between $1500 and $2000 more than a base.
Based on KBB.com, your 2007 is worth about $31,000. see:
http://www.kbb.com/KBB/UsedCars/Pri...QuizConditions=
So the offer of $29,000 while low, is not offensive.
JeffK
Thanks again for the compliment.
Jeff, while you may disagree with what I see cars selling for, you are still welcome to accompany me to the next Acura Remarketing auction that I attend and then you can see for yourself wheat dealers are actually paying for these cars.
I'm also not a used car salesman, I run the used car department, the salepeople sell cars, I am usually doing other things such as appraising trade-ins, wholesaling cars, purchasing inventory, updating our website, watching eBay, Craigslist, Cars.com, etc.
I apologize for not making my statements regarding the selling prices on new MDXs clear enough. Can you buy one for invoice? Yes you can and we have sold them for that. But, is it the norm, the average selling price? No. Now, in another topic, Jeff said that he would be curious as to know what the average amount over invoice MDXs are selling for is, and it's still around $1,000. My company owns 2 Acura dealerships in the northeast, one of which (We're in upstate NY in a small market, we only sell about 800-900 new Acuras a year) is a pretty darn big store. There's an awful lot of variables that go into whether or not any dealer will sell any car for any price. I know some dealers that will gladly sell one for invoice and some that will let you walk out if you offer more than that.
It's like a recent eBay purchase of mine, a brand new pair of Ermenegildo Zegna slacks for $36 shipped. New with tags! Does this mean that all of a sudden the going rate for a pair of those is $36? Nope, average selling price I would guess is $200. Some people paid $325 retail at Neiman Marcus, some got them at the outlet for $175, some snagged a pair for peanuts on eBay.
So, do you want to still know the average selling price Jeff or do you want me to say that you can get one for invoice?
Average $1000 or so over.
Invoice? I would think that it's doable in many if not most markets in the country, but we just sold one for $500 over to a couple who went to a dealer far upstate who wouldn't go below $1,500 over. If they would have done our figure I doubt those folks would have driven over 200 miles to buy it from us.
Now, back to what the 2007 is worth... if you can't get anywhere with it, I would suggest giving ebuyfigure.com a try, that's the biggest seller at Manheim Auto Auction and they might pay up for it depending on color combo (Please don't say it has a Bordeaux interior!)
No, I don't want to make a penny off of it, but I might be able to steer you to someone who can use it.
Bill |
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| JeffK |
BillHeart:
I just do not know what to say: When I post that others are getting their new '08 at invoice less $2000 incentive, but no part of the holdback, you say that is unusual.
Well I direct your attention to this thread, which by the way, you posted on:
http://acuramdx.org/forums/showthre...15&pagenumber=2
Again, your job is to sell cars at the highest price possible. As the used car manager, I believe that is one of your primary responsibilities - to make as much profit for your dealer as possible.
You are like a real estate broker - pumping up the buyer - so that he thinks he is getting a bargain regardless of the price he/she paid.
Nothing wrong with that, but you should almost put a disclaimer when you post.
JeffK |
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| BillHeart |
quote:
Originally posted by JeffK
BillHeart:
I just do not know what to say: When I post that others are getting their new '08 at invoice less $2000 incentive, but no part of the holdback, you say that is unusual.
Well I direct your attention to this thread, which by the way, you posted on:
http://acuramdx.org/forums/showthre...15&pagenumber=2
Again, your job is to sell cars at the highest price possible. As the used car manager, I believe that is one of your primary responsibilities - to make as much profit for your dealer as possible.
You are like a real estate broker - pumping up the buyer - so that he thinks he is getting a bargain regardless of the price he/she paid.
Nothing wrong with that, but you should almost put a disclaimer when you post.
JeffK
Jeff,
You said:
quote:
I for one will be very interested in seeing what the exact/real market is for MDX's.
And I replied.
The actual market seems to jive with what I figured, right around a grand over invoice. Now, this means that some people are paying much more, and I am sure someone out there bought one for well under invoice and quite a few people did buy them for invoice.
But facts have always been tough for me to argue, ya know?
I don't sell new cars. I don't even personally sell used cars.
Here's what my job basically is, and I am pretty darned good at it.
I am responsible for figuring out what a trade-in is worth. I need to take it in at a number where we strike a balance between making a deal on a new or used car and owning the vehicle where I won't lose money should I decide to wholesale it or, if it is a retail unit, where I can price the car to move quickly and still make money on it.
I am responsible for selling wholesale trades and aged inventory at auction. I attend auctions every single week so I think that I have a pretty good grasp on what actual market prices are.
I am responsible for buying used vehicles for inventory. When I get done on here I am going online and buying another 4 or 5 MDXs. Right now I am averaging a 10 day turn time on CPO MDXs. The average dealer takes 45-50 days to turn their inventory.
That's what I primarially do. Now, I have lots of other little jobs to do, but that's the biggest part of my job.
I am not the new car sales manager nor do I want the job, we have someone who does a great job of it and a General Sales Manager who also does a great job, I worry about the used cars and that's it.
Yet you claim that my figures lack veracity. That's fine, but remember, the offer stands, you are welcome to attend a dealer auto auction with me and see what cars sell for in the real world. I'm not trying to be argumentative, heck, attending a highline sale at Manheim is an event not to be missed to be honest, last one I went to I must have seen over 30 $100k+ exotics, this week Acura is running over 350 cars alone.
However on the new car side I do see what a lot of these cars go out the door for, I see the recap sheets once a car is delivered and I see what our typical selling price is.
And when that number jives with our store in New Jersey, and a friend of mine's store in Florida, and other dealers that I talk to, I would say that it's a pretty good gauge of the market.
And when a customer walks in with lease figures from another dealer and is shopping us, and those lease figures are usually between $800-1500 over invoice depending on the dealer, what do you think that I will infer from that?
Can you buy one for Invoice? Sure you can, I never said that you could not. But you asked what the exact/real market is.
If the average selling price is $X then some people paid $X - Y and some paid $X + $Y. It doesn't mean that all Acura dealers get together and say "OK boys, $863.25 over invoice is exactly what we get for every TSX we're selling right now"
If you want to get nuts, that's the TSX market. We've seen quotes of anywhere from $300 over invoice to MSRP on them right now.
There is NEVER an exact market on new cars. Ever. I'm sure some guy just paid sticker for a Powerstroke pickup somewhere today and I bet someone bought a Nissan GTR at $500 over invoice. But the reality is, you can get a rough idea of what average selling prices are if you are in the business. Right now the going rate is about $25k over sticker on GTRs from what I understand and if you want to buy a new Powerstroke pickup it's probably invoice minus any incentives minus another grand and you get to date the dealer's daughter.
Just basing it off of what I am seeing, that's all.
Meanwhile, I love these new slacks :) |
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| Will4271 |
quote:
Originally posted by JeffK
Just my $.02:
Cars very rarely, if ever go up in price. They are a depreciating asset.
Most of us are prepared for $5.00 gallon gas.
I am not saying to sell your MDX, but if you want to, it will never be worth more than it is today.
BTW, in New York, when you trade in a car, that amount is deducted from the purchase price.
You only pay sales tax on the net amount (agreed on selling price less the trade in).
In New York our sales tax is 8.625%. The tax savings on $29,500 is $2519. So in effect a trade of $29,500 is like selling it for $32,000 and there is no hassle.
JeffK
I wonder if CA is the same? It's 8.75 for CA (Alameda County).
Trade-in doesn't yield good numbers for the consumers in most cases. |
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| gmc74 |
quote:
Originally posted by JeffK
BillHeart:
I just do not know what to say: When I post that others are getting their new '08 at invoice less $2000 incentive, but no part of the holdback, you say that is unusual.
Well I direct your attention to this thread, which by the way, you posted on:
http://acuramdx.org/forums/showthre...15&pagenumber=2
Again, your job is to sell cars at the highest price possible. As the used car manager, I believe that is one of your primary responsibilities - to make as much profit for your dealer as possible.
You are like a real estate broker - pumping up the buyer - so that he thinks he is getting a bargain regardless of the price he/she paid.
Nothing wrong with that, but you should almost put a disclaimer when you post.
JeffK
Jeff, why don't you attack Tim from Acura world every time he posts? His job is to sell accessories at a profit for his company.
I have seen nothing other than helpful posts from Bill, and you sit here and flame him every time he posts as if he is sitting in a crappy office wearing a plaid suit slinging cars to everyone on the board.
Bill is offering information, if you don't like it, don't listen. I think the point you are trying to make has been received, and discarded as fiction. I haven't seen Bill trying to sell cars on here or affecting the market price of anything with his posts.
If we take your side for a moment and believe that Bill is artificially trying to raise the value of the used cars his company sells, do you really think the comments here, directed at maybe 2000 people spread across the country (and the world for that matter) are going to affect the market price of a car? Come on, use a bit of common sense.
Give it up already, start flaming somewhere else. |
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| JeffK |
I actually buy from Tim and have so posted, so I do not see your point.
I believe that subconsciously we all want to believe that we have gotten the best price possible on our MDX and that unlike other SUV’s and contrary to all news articles, the MDX is holding its value.
By analogy, the housing market is in shambles for many, many reasons, one of which is that people are afraid to buy today because they think that next year the same house can be bought for less.
Real estate brokers of course cannot agree, because if they do, no one will buy. There job is to convince you, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that buying today is a good investment.
Now just substitute the MDX for a house and BillHeart for a broker.
Like a broker it is in BillHeart’s best interest to convince you, the potential buyer, that the MDX is holding its value and is not depreciating at a rapid rate. If he fails to do that, you will not buy.
What I have posted is not my opinion but values published by Kelley Blue Book. I have always given a link for others to double check. So far no one has taken issue with the values published by Kelley’s except BillHeart.
This thread was started by ExRiGuy, who when he wanted to sell his MDX, was surprised by the offer he received. He then went to a dealer who offered him about the same amount. Interesting both offers were very close to the Kelley Blue Book values that I posted.
Ask yourself, why would Kelley Blue Book be publishing inaccurate values? What do they gain by publishing inaccurate values?
You can disregard the values published by Kelley’s and if it makes you happy and makes you feel better, then accept BillHeart’s values.
JeffK |
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| MDX4now |
quote:
Ask yourself, why would Kelley Blue Book be publishing inaccurate values? What do they gain by publishing inaccurate values?
I don't think Kelley *means* to quote inaccurate values, I just think it takes some time for their values to correctly reflect certain market changes.
When I traded in my 2003 MDX, I shopped it around to various dealers, all of them bringing me values of $19-$20K.
My car was definitely in "Good" condition (washed, maybe a door ding or two, immaculate interior, mats never used, etc. etc.), however I was receiving values that were all more in line with the "Fair" KBB value.
At first I thought the dealers were just out to screw me, but then I realized, with the $2,500 dealer cash going on the 2006's, that had to have had some affect the older models' resale.
Once I realized all the dealers were coming back with roughly the same trade numbers, it made me realize not take KBB as the "end-all, be all" source of trade-in values...I definitely would use it as a good starting point, but the market is the market and it's probably best to use a multitude of sources, including shopping your trade around to various dealers, to get a good estimate of what your car is really worth (regardless of what you think it *should* be worth). |
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| JeffK |
Dear MDX4now
Well put.
I have previously posted that Kelley lags the market by 30 to 45 days.
That means in a down market, which SUV's, including the MDX are in, the prices in the market are actually lower not higher than reported in Kelley's.
I too had a 2003 MDX, which when it came off lease in October 2006, was worth far, far less than the residual. There were many factors, but the primary reasons were that:
a) 2006 were selling at invoice, while I paid MSRP for my 2003;
b) There were $2500 incentives on the 2006
My point is that Kelley's trade in value is a very, very good ball park on wholesale (what your car is worth) and if anything because of the time lag, is usually high but hardly every below the market.
JeffK |
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| Randy B |
Jeff K, while I have read through this thread several times, my comments are as follows:
Bill Heart has come on here with genuine help and assistance. I have yet to see where he asks anyone to call him or his dealership and make a deal. While he may be frothing at the mouth to do so, he has not and has respected the forum for what it is.
Your posts are rather pointed and with a salesman hate attitude. While I do not believe personally at Bill, I do believe you just despise car salesman and the process we must go through to obtain a vehicle.
With that said, I too have access to the Manheim Auto Auction web-site. I have verified all of Bill's postings thus far, and can say without a doubt he has been accurate. KBB is much like the Little Black Book wholesalers used to use at the auctions. They are always behind the day of sale. The SUV market as a whole changes daily around the country. A Large American SUV (ie: Suburban, Tahoe, Expedition, Escalade, and Navigator) have taken such hits to their re-sales prices, that I would not have believed the amount if someone had told me so last year. The MDX is the best, hands down in resale value for the any SUV. The only thing close for reason's I cannot explain is the Buick Enclave CXL with NAV and Rear Ent. Even LX470's and Landcruiser's are finally starting to take a hit, and those two have been the flagship of SUV resale's for some ten plus years!
Anyways, I check the MDX market quite often, because I own one. If you bought an 2007 when they were brand new early in the sales year, you have taken a typical depreciation that you should have expected with any new vehicle. If you bought when I bought, August 30, 2007 for a 2007 TECH/ENT that was built in 08/07, you have done better. I paid $41605.50 for my MDX. I can wholesale it today with 10K miles for $35,000.00 All in all with the SUV's taking a hit, this is amazing depreciation. This means it will retail for $37500-38000. Not bad for a MDX in poor fuel price times.
Now, I agree with you about why would I buy your used one with 10K miles when I can get an 08' with a $2500.00 reduction for only another maybe $2000.00? I do not know why anyone would not get the new one either. This was why we ended up with a new MDX rather than one from the auction with 3K miles on it. The difference at that time from New to wholesale was less than $2500.00. I said that makes sense for me to pay more and get a fresh one with only my kid's boogers on the back of the front seats!
What it gets down to in my opinion, is people are not always the saviest when purchasing vehicles. One might see a bunch of accessories on the used one, and none on the new one and do the math with the retail labor and accessory price and realize now they are into it for another $2500.00. Others may not qualify for the special financing , and need to use their own friendly bank to get the loan in the first place or extend out further than 48 months to make the payments acceptable. And a cheaper MDX does that.
Back to Bill Heart, I believe he is an asset to the Forum, and should not be knocked on as hard as you have done. Reality is KBB is behind the times on actual values. If you really want to know what your vehicle is worth, have it detailed and bring it to CarMax. That will open your eyes very quickly. KBB, like NADA is passe`.
Randy B |
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| gmc74 |
quote:
Originally posted by JeffK
My point is that Kelley's trade in value is a very, very good ball park on wholesale (what your car is worth) and if anything because of the time lag, is usually high but hardly every below the market.
JeffK
Why haven't you taken Bill up on his offer to go and see for yourself what the cars are selling for at the auction?
As for your idea about the broker trying to persuade the public. Last time I checked, this was a forum for cars that cost over 40k, short of a handful people, that means everyone here has had above average success in business and life. If you were posting on the "I just turned 22, am distracted by shiny objects and have fist fulls of cash" forum, then I may understand why you feel the need to post the same thing over and over again every time Bill posts something that other people, like myself, find somewhat interesting. There is nothing that any one person could do that should completely persuade anyone. If there are people here that aren't using the vast resources of the internet when spending this much money on a car, and only take one person's word as gospel, then they are gullible and get what they deserve (and no, I don't believe the intention for that is here, nor do I believe anyone here is dumb enough to fall for that).
From an outside perspective, looking at your posts and Bill's posts, his seem helpful, yours seem somewhat ignominious. Others may not share the same opinion, I don't know, just pointing out what I see... the act seems tired at this point. |
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| BillHeart |
OK,
I'll bite. I probably should not, but I will.
Here's a car that's worth $9,000 right now:
http://www.kbb.com/KBB/UsedCars/Pri...QuizConditions=
Ford Credit is dumping these for around $8k at the auction right now:
http://www.kbb.com/KBB/UsedCars/Pri...QuizConditions=
These are worth $11,500-12k at auction right now. I ought to know, I just watched 20 sell today and managed to snag only one for my lot (They sell GREAT for us believe it or not)
http://www.kbb.com/KBB/UsedCars/Pri...QuizConditions=
I sold this at the auction today for $6700 and was tickled pink. It was VERY clean
http://www.kbb.com/KBB/UsedCars/Pri...QuizConditions=
I can go on and on and on here, but you get the idea.
Reality is, the market is weirder than I have ever seen it, some vehicles are bringing insane money wholesale, some are doing OK and holding their own, some are not only worthless, but they don't even bring bids. I was, honestly, surprised to even sell that GMC pickup today. After paying auction fees I think I made, stop laughing, $25 on it. Right now, anything that's a pickup or an SUV with a big V8 is worth bupkis.
And I think that our Toyota dealer is happily buying 2 year old ex-rental Priuses for about what they cost new. Why? 6+ Month waiting list on new ones, they are also lasting an average of 5-10 minutes on the lot.
Wait, what does KBB say that an 06 Prius with 30k on it is worth?
Well I can't buy them for even $3k over that.
http://www.kbb.com/KBB/UsedCars/Pri...QuizConditions=
I could sit here and give you probably hundreds of examples of KBB being off by thousands of dollars on vehicles. Why are they inaccurate? Heck if I know. What does it pay for them to be inaccurate? I never got that. But I will bring a few points out...
I don't know a dealer alive that uses kbb.com to appraise cars. if it was that accurate, we'd all use it, it's free! On top of that, what makes KBB in particular so special? There's also NADA and Edmunds.com Some of them will be $5,000 apart on the same car.
If you want to know what your vehicle is really worth, real money, try to sell it to 3-4 dealers. If they all say $25k and the guides say $22-27k, who's right? A Checkwriter or a website that won't buy your car?
So if those of us who make our livings by appraising used cars don't take it seriously and won't trust our livelihoods on it, how much faith should a layman put in it? I suppose it's like anything else, you get what you pay for. We could have all saved thousands and bought Explorers, right? :)
But I base what a car is worth on one single thing, actual market activity. If I look at auction reports, and having done this for over 10 years I think I have a handle on it, I am also good at interpreting the reports. Earlier today I was at an auction, I ran about 14 cars and sold 8 of them which is pretty good BTW, and bought 2, an Audi and a Mazda.
I watched a couple MDXs run and ran one myself. I also was bidding on one TL and got off another TL because a friend of mine wanted it. Jeff does not seem to agree with my figures, that's fine, I can appreciate that, but I'm not Joking Jeff, the offer does stand, if you want to come along with me to an Auction, you are welcome to join me and watch for yourself. You'll see that most dealers are using either Black Book or Galves.
As far as me trying to affect the market one way or another, I can't take that seriously.
First, show me one time where I've offered to sell a car on here? I'm not a sponsor of the site so it would be inappropriate, I'd love to sponsor the site and if I get the OK I will gladly let people know what I can sell them MDXs for, new or used. But to lie on here is not only unprofessional, it serves no purpose and helps nobody. I am privy to information in the course of my job that the public isn't, I'll gladly share that if you all want and be happy to help if I can. Remember, I do buy and/or appraise 10-20 MDXs a month, I go to auctions every week, etc.
And one last point, isolated sales sure do not represent the market as a whole. I just got my hands on an 07 RDX Tech with just shy of 36k miles for $18,600. It's a nice unit too. Does that make these worth $18,600? Uhh, no, it's still worth $24k wholesale. Before Jeff jumps on me, it was a retired service loaner and that was the residual.
Your input is more than welcome.. back to paperwork for me :) |
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