| JP422 |
Just thought I'd share the latest "mod"... a wider stance! It really bothered me to have the tires tucked under, and nobody seemed to have them avaialble, so I went and got them made! I love the look now.
They are made from T6061 US Aluminum stock, and hubcentric as well. 1" wide in the front, and 1.5" in the rear (that means my track is now wider 2" front/3" rear total). The spacer basically gets bolted to the hub... then you bolt the wheel to the spacer. Easy.
I forgot to take pics of the spacers, but here's the X.
(If you don't like them, that's ok, but I have been using these type of hubcentric spacers for a while... and they're great~) My wife can't even tell the difference, but I can... :D |
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| JP422 |
| Here's a few more pics... |
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| JP422 |
| My side step tubes used to protrude further out than my wheels... now they are all even... |
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| JP422 |
I love it... very subtle... (where most people won't know)... but the stance just looks so right!
In my case, I have the oem fender trim (Acura calls them flares.. yea right)... and I have it so the rim edge are flush with the X's body. The tire sidewall protrude a few mm's... but not enough to look awkward, but enough to look "tough" :D |
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| JP422 |
| Here's a "before" pic... note how the tires are tucked under the fenders... It's not as bad as some other cars and trucks, but still a bit sissy... :p |
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| midnightMDX |
| Very stealthy. Not many people will notice that difference. Have you noticed any difference in the handling with the wider stance? |
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| JP422 |
Ok... last comparo pic...
I've noticed HUGE handling improvement on my father's LX470 (1.5" spacers all around)... and also my Yukon (2" spacers). It definitely makes the car feel less top heavy.
As for the X, to be honest, it's already a very wide vehicle, plus it's lower than the other SUV's I've widened. It already handled well, and I never had the feeling of it being topheavy, so I can't really tell.
But then again, I only drove it on local streets so far... at safe and legal speeds (i guess kids do this to you). It was mostly an aesthetic thing... plus I know if the X ever gets into an extreme cornering situation, I'm sure it'll help it a bit. I am in the automobile design industry, and the stance of a vehicle means a lot to me...
I couldnt' wait to do this. I guess it's kind of a silent obsession.
Aftermarket rims with a lower offset would also give the same effect... which is great, but I wanted to stick w/ oem rims on this one. |
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| MDXOO |
Looks great, like the way it fills up the wheel well.
If you look at a BMW X5 with standard wheels, its also kinda tucked in. But in an X5 with upgrade 20"+ you'll notice that its pushed out to the fender edge. Wonder why manufacturers don't choose a greater offset to get a wider stance for standard rims?? Can't imagine it cost a whole lot more?
Thinking about this, won't moving the center line of the rim out without shifting the center line of the hub put more stress on the bearings? trying to figure out if there are drawbacks to this setup?
Also, how much and where?
thx, |
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| JP422 |
Yea.... BMW and Audi are pretty good about getting their wheels out to the body. It does look nicer, and the stance is solid. Most cars are "designed" and styled using wheels that are flush... but later as they go into production, feasibility and other "rules" keep them very conservative. Some examples are that some cars are setup to allow snow chains (who uses chains these days?)... which equates to huge fender/wheel gaps so they don't tear up the fenders... Another thing is bottoming out... engineers setup the wheels tucked under in case you bottom out... so the wheels can tuck in, and not hit the fender. There's many reasons, and yes the car is "engineered" but usually for the worst case scenerios, or most conservative reliability. Not always style and performance.
Anyway, stock looks wimpy to me. The body looks too nice and strong to have the wheels tucked under (kinda like a dog w/ tail tucked between their legs).
Now that the tires are shown a little more, the next step is to get some new tires (eventually) that are a bit more aggressive looking (tougher looking, but not full offroad). This will complete the look I am after.
as for the bearing issue... theoretically, it can could be something to watch out for, but in my own personal experience... I've changed wheels or widened the track of every car I could get my greasy hands on (domestic, japanes, euro, etc)... and now most of these cars now have over 100k miles, and not one has toasted a bearing... so... in my book, it's fine. |
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| LionSpeed |
| Nicely done! I love it your painted bumpers. Your X reminds me of mine, except for the garnishes. :p |
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| kingmdx |
I like it :29: ..it's the look you want to get with an aftermarket rim except you're doing it with stocks ...it's like a cheaper fix ...plus i like the sport rims also :p
On a side note the line up thing with spacers probably works better with your style of running boards...my rims are lined up nice with the running board ..that's because it's a sport running so it's not sticking out as far as your boards do.
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| Dishoom |
Looks good man! Although it seems to be just a tad too far out from the angles that you provided. I was actually looking for some a while back also. How much did they cost you? Maybe you can even start having these made and selling them!
Have you noticed any difference in handling? |
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| LionSpeed |
quote:
Originally posted by kingmdx
On a side note the line up thing with spacers probably works better with your style of running boards...my rims are lined up nice with the running board ..that's because it's a sport running so it's not sticking out as far as your boards do.
+1 |
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| LionSpeed |
| Doesn't look like I'll be needing any spacers. Wheels are aligned with SRB perfectly. |
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| gurneyeagle |
Looks great! My first thoughts went to concerns about the bearings, but apparently that hasn't been an issue for you.
Nicely done.
gurney |
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| JP422 |
Lining up with the side steps were an added bonus. It wasn't the reason to go wide... but man, it looks awsome (following my wife from another car). It finally has the right stance... looks solid.
As for handling... I took it out last night for a midnight run... and like I mentioned before, the X already handles well (esp for an suv)... but now it stays flat... very flat (on corners). I think a drive up in the mountain roads would really let it shine :cool:
I really am a bit obsessed with the stance of a car... |
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| jhue |
| I find it comical when people change the scrub radius of their vehicle's front-end steering geometry, and then claim they "improved" the handling. |
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| JP422 |
| this one took a 2" spacer on each side in the rear to bring it flush... the front was widened by a Brembo big brake kit. Now all the wheels are flush w/ the body and the stance look right. |
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| JP422 |
this one just has wide offset wheels... they poke out a bit on all four corners, and have stretched tires. the angled sidewalls visually extend the fenders out, and the stance is sweet. The car looks planted to the ground. These pics don't really do it justice...
I love a good stance :D
Btw, the adapters were made by this shop:
http://www.wheeladapter.com/
I've used his stuff a few times, and his pieces work perfect, and fit perfect as well. Plus it's all custom to what you want/need. He now has specs for MDX spacers... :cool: |
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| JP422 |
quote:
Originally posted by jhue
I find it comical when people change the scrub radius of their vehicle's front-end steering geometry, and then claim they "improved" the handling.
Haha... yea.. funny isnt it? Another thing that I find it comical when people who probably never tried things themselves act like they know all about it... One thing in life I realized, is there are things that make sense in theory... but can be different when you actually DO IT.
Back to the scrub radius... Please tell me what the "scrub radius" is exactly of the MDX, or whatever car you speak of. Are you referring to the caster angle, steering angle, camber, sway bar rate, the speed and G generated during the turn or all of the above, and what exactly got changed negatively? I can think of a simple rule . When your track gets wider, your center of gravity gets lower in proportion to your vehicle height... thus giving you an advantage in performance over a car that has narrow track at he same height (at speeds of course). Stop me if I'm wrong. Now..... isn't the MDX designed as SPORTS oriented? I'm sure your prius can bump your jams... but my MDX feels very sporty and flat :p
Anyway, I spend my $$ on things like this cus it makes me happy.
Now don't go widening the track on your Prius... you might lower the MPG by disturbing the airflow going around your fender... oh, and you might change your scrub too. |
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| Dishoom |
quote:
Originally posted by JP422
this one just has wide offset wheels... they poke out a bit on all four corners, and have stretched tires. the angled sidewalls visually extend the fenders out, and the stance is sweet. The car looks planted to the ground. These pics don't really do it justice...
I love a good stance :D
Btw, the adapters were made by this shop:
http://www.wheeladapter.com/
I've used his stuff a few times, and his pieces work perfect, and fit perfect as well. Plus it's all custom to what you want/need. He now has specs for MDX spacers... :cool:
Nice S4...is it yours? I've got a B6 A4 3.0Q myself! I believe the BBS LM's are ET32, which is why the wheels appear pushed out to the corners. I'm running 19" BBS CH which have an offset of ET35...not as aggressive, but suits me fine without shelling a couple hundred for some H&R spacers. |
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| JP422 |
| Thanks... yes, it's my Audi.. but not S4.. it's an A4 1.8T. I rebuilt the motor myself and it's on a standalone ecu now. 12.1 sec 1/4 mile @ 119mph is not bad on pump gas :D plus it still gets up to 20mph hwy. You're close on the ET, but the LM's are actually lower... in the 20's.. :p I have another set of ABT 18"s and some SSR 17" for track... but those are all flush and doesn't poke out past the body. |
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| oilchange |
Cool, nice and wide
Are the wheels still riding on the hub (hubcentric) or are they on studs only. Are the original studs still being used? Are they strong enough?
Calif Vehicle Code section 27600 says: No person shall operate any motor vehicle having three or more wheels, any trailer, or semitrailer unless equipped with fenders, covers, or devices, including flaps or splash aprons, or unless the body of the vehicle or attachments thereto afford adequate protection to effectively minimize the spray or splash of water or mud to the rear of the vehicle and all such equipment or such body or attachments thereto shall be at least as wide as the tire tread. This section does not apply to those vehicles exempt from registration, trailers and semitrailers having an unladen weight of under 1,500 pounds, or any vehicles manufactured and first registered prior to January 1, 1971, having an unladen weight of under 1,500 pounds.
Wider means more splash. The whole tire is not covered by the fender or mudguard. Watch out for splash. Would not want a VC violation.
Scrub radius is the distance between where the SAI intersects the ground and the center of the tire.
http://www.hawaiitalks.net/showthread.php?t=28850
http://www.familycar.com/alignment.htm |
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| JP422 |
thanks... yea, it's not an issue with splash. The friends who have been cited with that voilation had off road rigs... jeeps w/ 2-4" of tire tread sticking out past the fenders and no mudflaps. The X still has the tread 100% under the fenders. If you drop a plumb bob from the top of the fender down... it will hit a little of the bulging sidewall, but that's it.
as for the hardware, the spacer is machined to be hubcentric to both the vehicle hub and the wheel. The fit is perfect... if I didn't clean the vehicle's hub w a wire brush, it wouldn't have fit. The spacer has new (longer by 5-7mm ) bolts that are pressed in. Using the oem wheel and lug nuts, the nuts fit perfect and don't bottom out on the longer bolts.
I've used these type of spacers for yrs and never had any problems... Not even a peep from the Lexus dealers for my dad's LX470 (1.5" wide... so 3" wider overall). Handling was MUCH improved on that SUV too. I just hope Acura folks are the same.
Anyway, I can't stop staring at the car everytime I get home... :D
So sweet and wide.... |
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| JP422 |
Oilchange... thanks for the links... good info. I knew about the effect but never heard it by the name "scrub radius". My audi w/ the wheels poking out has those manners.... so I know EXACTLY what they are talking of...but the link does exagerrate the effect. It's not that bad... but anyway, those wheels are for cruising. My track wheels are much wider and keep the wheel centerline for a near stock scrub radius.
As for the X... you can't feel the effects of "scrub radius"... but you can definitely feel the width of the X when cornering.
If you're wondering about tire wear, my dad's LX (w/ the 3" spacers overall) has had tires that lasted over 65k miles. I don't think the change in "scrub radius" hurt the tire wear... |
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| hammermdx |
| I like the look! How much did the spacers for the MDX cost? |
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| G. COLTON |
quote:
Originally posted by jhue
I find it comical when people change the scrub radius of their vehicle's front-end steering geometry, and then claim they "improved" the handling.
Most people who change the geometry on their vehicles have no clue what it actually does to their vehicles handling. If the NASCAR boys turn the handling by adding or subtracting 1/2# of air pressure, just think what wheel spacers do to it.
This really did not matter 30, 40 or maybe even 20 years ago when most automotive aftermarket action was just heavy handed, sledge hammer mods. (Except for some specialty shops and engines.)
Now suspensions are tuned and the most moders vehicles even have suspensions that work with 4 wheel drive to give the best handling. These days changing geometry on one of these vehicles is asking for trouble in the long run.
G |
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| JP422 |
quote:
Originally posted by G. COLTON
Most people who change the geometry on their vehicles have no clue what it actually does to their vehicles handling. If the NASCAR boys turn the handling by adding or subtracting 1/2# of air pressure, just think what wheel spacers do to it.
This really did not matter 30, 40 or maybe even 20 years ago when most automotive aftermarket action was just heavy handed, sledge hammer mods. (Except for some specialty shops and engines.)
Now suspensions are tuned and the most moders vehicles even have suspensions that work with 4 wheel drive to give the best handling. These days changing geometry on one of these vehicles is asking for trouble in the long run.
G
Interesting... I bet you would never ever lower a vehicle either. You're right, SOME people may have no clue what happens when modifying suspension, but those are the guys who end up going back to stock. If some people have been modifying their suspension for almost 2 decades... worked at tuner shops (installations and tuning... not just rice rockets, but BMW, Audi, VW, MB's as well), been going to tracks and competing in race events, worked at body shops, rebuilds race engines, and has a degree in automotive design... Maybe.... just Maybe... they might know what they're doing... both the good and the bad, and decide certain trade offs are worth it. Whatcha think? Maybe?
Now.. like the good 'ol nascar boys... if I were putting my MDX into competition... and taking the car to the limits, then hell no, I wouldn't use spacers. I'd use proper wheel widths and offsets that will give me the best benefit and performance... but that's not the case. I just love the look of a good stance, and appreciate the flat handling nature a wide stance gives. I don't care about radial scrub, and that might seem ignorant.. but come on .. who REALLY freaks out about that. My experience with properly made wheel spacer for the last 8 yrs, has proven to ME that it's fine.
As for your your comment: "Now suspensions are tuned and the most modern vehicles even have suspensions that work with 4 wheel drive to give the best handling"... you forgot to leave out... "best tuning for the MASS people who may consider purchasing the vehicle" If ACURA engineers really built the BEST suspension for BEST performance, it would have a race setup... and even the 'Ring test times would be much lower, cornering G's would be higher.. etc. but this isn't the case... is it? My X was built according to what 50,000 other X owners wanted... and I'm just making my X truly mine.
As for prices, I had them made for $85 each. Not the cheapest, but they were custom made, and fit perfect. ($85 is same price for 1" through 2" wide.. hubcentric of course) |
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| 5abi |
| nice. hopefully my new wheels will be like that too |
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| dj-mdx2 |
| Great stance! Don't mind the naysayers. I wonder if a local shop could do that. |
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| jhue |
quote:
Originally posted by JP422
Back to the scrub radius... Please tell me what the "scrub radius" is exactly of the MDX, or whatever car you speak of.
Seriously, you don't know what scrub radius is? :rolleyes: That makes you wholly unqualified to assess the effect on handling of any changes you make to your car.
Hint: the main reason to maintain wheel offset isn't to make sure tires will fit in the wheel wells without rubbing. |
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| JP422 |
Oh well... since (according to you) I'm wholly unqualifed to assess the effects on handling of any changes I make to my car... I guess that makes it wrong to post this kind of information on a public internet forum eh?... Would you feel better if I only wrote about mods like rubber flor mats that fit right? Sheah.... right. :rolleyes:
Haha.. whatever... but seriously...whatever toots your horn.
You can do all your math and keyboard theory's, but I'm happy with my X's bulldog stance and improved handling (yes... improved says I).
At the expense of scrub radiusing my car... I also noticed something else... which I really love. Previously, sport mode was perfect for me, and comfort mode was soft and slightly sloppy (for my taste), but when the baby and wife are riding, they prefer the comfort mode most of the time. After putting on a few hundred miles over the weekend (on roads I'm familiar with) the comfort mode actually handled great, and the "slop" is gone... it just handles like sport mode, while being smooth as comfort! The perfect blend! I found myself rarely going to sport mode now... and we're all happy!~ |
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| LionSpeed |
Beer me!
:lurk: |
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| JP422 |
Damnit... Lionspeed... everytime I see pics of your car... it makes me want to get the front lower garnish... looks great~
I was hoping to be "done" setting up the X... :D
I think I'm gonna have to start saving for it... :p |
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| LionSpeed |
quote:
Originally posted by JP422
Damnit... Lionspeed... everytime I see pics of your car... it makes me want to get the front lower garnish... looks great~
I was hoping to be "done" setting up the X... :D
I think I'm gonna have to start saving for it... :p
Just sell your 9 yr old "toy hauler". That should give you some cash for MDX's goodies. :D |
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| JP422 |
| hahah... sell... that's funny. You mean give it away :p |
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| LionSpeed |
| Well then here's a shot to help your "savings" going. :) |
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| LionSpeed |
| ... and (my guess) you would have to pass the rear lower garnish. If that is so, here's something you won't have then. :2: |
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| RipRocK |
| Wow, JP, I can't believe how much that enhances the look of your X. It is very subtle, like you said, but still leaves a nice impression. Way to go. |
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| JP422 |
Damn you Lion! haha... I'll be ordering the front garnish soon. Maybe get HID for the fogs too... :p Now if I can call it my wife's Christmas present.... :D :D :D
Anyway... looks like it's just a matter of time now.
*thanks RipRock... the stance looks even better from a distance.. all my pics were taken up close. When I drive separate and follow the X... man, I can't take my eyes off it... looks solid! :D |
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