| O-TownMDX |
I have not had the chance to try this. On the TL website they are doing it to their '02 TL's. I must warn you this is a lengthy, but very imformative post.
How to wire fog lights to come on with just the parking lights.
Okay, for anyone that wants to run their fog lights with just their parking lights on, I've figured out how to do it. I did it on my '02 TL-S and it works fine. I know some posted here before wanting to know *why* someone would want to do that (I believe in some states like CA it's illegal to run just fogs), but here in MA you can run just fogs and parking lights at dusk, in the rain, etc. Or if the fog is so thick that just fogs gives you better visibility you can run the fog/parking combo without low beams (even at night). This post may seem lengthy but I tried to be as explicit as possible. Maybe this can get added to the FAQ.
First my warning: Although is mod is 100% effective and safe to do, I absolve myself of all claims of damage to your vehicle should you not be able to complete this mod correctly (or you pound a couple 40s before trying it).
Time to complete: 20-30 minutes, even for a beginner
Tools needed: Short phillips-head screwdriver, small pair of scissors (or razor knife), some type of in-line electrical connector, crimping pliers for electrical connector
Background: Because laws vary from state to state, Acura must make sure that its lighting is 50-state compliant. So even though some states allow it, they must wire the car so the fog lights (a) cannot be operated independant of the lights, (b) cannot be operated with just the parking lights, and (c) cannot be operated when the high beams are on. This mod changes the fogs so they will now do (b) in addition to how they normally function.
What the mod does: When the fog light switch is pressed, the current wiring system has the first fog light relay (there are two--this one is in the passenger side footwell) check the position of the light stalk. If it is switched off or to parking lights, no power passes to the second relay which powers the fog lights. Once it is switched to low beams, power passes through the first relay which then in turn powers the underhood relay and sends the high voltage (20A) to the fogs and lights them. The mod rewires and fools the fog light switch into thinking the low beams are on when the light switch is moved to the parking light position.
Procedure:
1. Remove cover from driver's side fuse panel. This cover is the entire end-piece of the dash. You need to open the driver's door fully to properly access this panel. It is held in place only by pressure clips. Simply pull up and out at the very bottom to start the loosening process. Gently apply pressure to the side closest to the driver and the top and the whole cover will pop out. Notice there is a long ridge on the side closest to the firewall. Make sure that side goes in first when putting the cover back on.
2. Loosen left side of driver's underdash kick panel. Although you could remove this whole piece, you only have to loosen the left side near the fog light switch to do this mod. Looking in though the opening you just made with the cover removal, you should see two brass-looking phillips-head screws. One is close to the front of the dash, one is down behind some wires holding a long thin brace in place, closer to the firewall. This is the screw you need to remove. It is the *only* screw that holds the driver's side underdash kick panel in place. Once you've removed the screw, you can loosen the left portion of the underdash kick panel by gently pulling on the piece. There are two clips at the top front, close to the bottom of the gauge cluster. You pop these clips out and the left side will come away from the dash. *This is as far as you need to remove the underdash kick panel.*
3. Unplug wiring harness to dash light dimmer switch. This is a simple plug harness that is indexed so it only goes back one way--no need to remember how it went in. This gets the cables more free for the next step.
4. Remove the fog light switch from the dash. Easiest way is to reach in from the side and grab it gently from behind (sounds like some of my dates). Squeeze gently top and bottom and push forward (towards where driver sits). The switch should pop out and be hanging by its wiring harness. Unplug the wiring harness. Press the tab in on one side of the harness and pull gently out. Set the switch aside and push the wiring harness back through the opening and bring it out through the side so you can work on it easier.
5. Spice the wires. The wiring harness consists of an inline, 5-prong plug, which is connected by five 18-20 gauge wires that are individually exposed for about an inch and then are bunched together by some rubber conduit tubing. Take the scissors or razor knife and carefully cut open the tube to expose more of the wires. You need to cut back about two inches, because you're going to want about three inches of slack to work with. Once you've cut the tubing, fan all the wires flat. You have five wires going to the harness. They are:
1. White/Blue - Ground side of indicator light (green light that shows fogs are on)
2. Blue/Red - Power to passenger side footwell relay
3. White/Red - Power from headlight switch
4. Red/Black - Power from taillight relay
5. Red - Connection to dash light brightness controller
Wire number 4 provides power to the icon on the switch whenever the lights are on (parking lights/taillights are all on one circuit). Wire number 3 provides power through the fog switch *only* if it detects the headlight switch in the low-beam position. So what we do is splice wires 3 and 4 together, thereby bypassing the headlight switch altogether. Now, whenever the taillights have power, so will this leg of the switch and the fogs will come on when the switch is pressed.
You can use whatever means you wish to join wires 3 and 4 together. Just remember you *don't* want to cut them, just splice the two together. I highly recommend an inline automotive wiring splicer (the kind that looks like a double-barrel shotgun from the end). These types of splicers are meant to be slid on over an exisiting attached wire and a second wire's free end is slid into the other side of the connector. The connector is then crimped and the latch cover is closed. However, because both of these wires are connected at both ends, if you use this type of connector you will need to drill out or punch out the solid end of the connector so both sides are completely open on each end. Then simply slide the wires into the connector, crimp the metal blade down through the wires and snap the plastic retaining tab closed. If you're good with solder you can solder in a jumper between wires 3 and 4, but that makes the mod much more permanent. I strongly recommend a two-wire inline connector and crimp.
6. Reassemble the fog light switch. Take the wiring harness from the side and push it back through the hole in the dash where the switch goes. The wiring harness for the dash light dimmer control is sort of tied with this one so you have to make sure you keep them separate and only push the fog light harness through the hole. Snap the wiring harness onto the fog light switch (it can only go one way). Then gently push the fog light switch back into the dash opening (make sure it is right-side up--green light on top, icon on bottom).
7. Replug the wiring harness into the dash light dimmer switch. Self explanatory.
8. Reattach underdash kick panel by pushing gently in area of the clips until they snap into place (remember there are two at the top, just under the gauge cluster)
9. Replace the phillips screw in the brace for the dash panel.
10. Replace driver's side fuse panel cover. Remember to start it by inserting the side closest to the firewall first. It just snaps into place.
That's it--you're done. The only thing you've changed is now the fogs will come on whenever you have the light switch either in the parking light position or in the low beam position. NOTE: The fogs will *still* go off when you use high-beams so this mod will not cause trouble for those who live in a place where it is illegal to drive with high beams and fogs together. Making them come on *with* the high beams is a much more in-depth mod and will not be dealt with here. What's more, if your fogs are on and you shut off just the headlight switch, the fogs go off too (like the factory set-up). Remember it this way--whenever the taillights are on, the fogs can also be on (*except* for when high-beams are also on).
Whew! I know it seems like it is complicated, but this is a very easy mod. If you've crimped wires before in a car it's even easier. Most of you could do this in 20 minutes, no more than 30 minutes for a real beginner. |
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| Steve |
Thanks for your explaination. What is the way to wire the fogs so they are operated only by their switch? As in "A" of your post - "independant of the head lights". (and shut off if the car is shut off to avoid a dead battery).
We live in a rural area that (in the off season anyway) finds me quite often on road without other cars. Running with fogs AND high beams on is great - almost like day time! This can now be accomplised by manually holding the highs on while lows and fogs are on, a pain in the left hand.
Looking forward to your reply with wire crimpers in hand - |
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| taschroth |
Great find for the fog rewire, it sounds like you could put ignition power to the trigger wire instead and get the fogs to be available whenever the car is running.
I was able to get my fogs to come on with the ignition at about 1/2 brightness (6 volts) as daytime running lights and then go to full power whenever the headlights come on. A side effect is that the fogs stay on with the highbeams and if the car is running and if the headlights are on but the fog switch is off, they are still on the 1/2 power setting. (other words, if the igntion is on the fogs are on one way or the other)
Please don't ask for details on this mod is it was 8 months ago but basically I used 2 relays that created 2 separate fog circuits. One relay, activated by the ignition, shunts power to the fogs in series which effectively halves the voltage so they are running off 6 volts. This means they should not burn out much quicker even being on all the time. The other relay is activated by the headlight switch and takes out the 1st relay and let's a full 12volts go to the fogs.
The X's delivered in Canada would need dayime running lights by law but I can not find anyone to tell me how they do it. Anyones have a Canadian spec MDX that knows, pass it on. |
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| rroof |
Wow - great, detailed post! Thanks!
:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool::cool: |
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| rvehock |
| Just finished re-wiring my fog lights so that they come on with my parking lights. The instuctions listed in the first post of this thread worked out great. Took me a total of 15 minutes, a great low-cost upgrade for sure:4: |
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| Gregc |
I hate to bring this up, but this Mod could cause very serious problems. Connecting Red/Black wire to the Wht/Red wire connects 2 different circuits fused by 2 different sized fuses. The fuse for the Red/Black wire is 15a fuse 10 (this is the fuse for most running lights and the Multiplex control unit) on the passenger's side. The fuse for Wht/Red is a 20a fuse 43 (this is the fuse for the right side headlamps). Adding these 2 values together brings you up to 35amps. That means when the headlights are on you have 2 paths to get 12volt power at a total of 35 amps. This could be very dangerous if a component shorted out or drew too much current. The wires could overheat and start a fire, or you could damage the Multiplex Controller. This mod would be better if you cut the Wht/Red wire and used one of the Scotch-lock connectors to connect the switch end of the Wht/Red wire with the Red/Blk wire. That would acomplish what you want without cross wiring the circuits. You would need to insulate the cut end of the Wht/Red wire. Should work fine that way. For those that have cross wired the circuits, simply cut the Wht/Red wire past your connection and insulate both sides and you should be good! Never just tie 2 circuits together, you are inviting trouble.
Greg in Atlanta |
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| Steve |
Perhaps you could revise the step by step mod instructions of the earlier post to allow those of us who are less talented to attemp this (with the most chance of success).
I don't understand why the car is not built so the fogs can be used without the lowbeams. Many other cars come that way.
Thanks, Steve |
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| Gregc |
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Perhaps you could revise the step by step mod instructions of the earlier post to allow those of us who are less talented to attemp this (with the most chance of success).
I don't understand why the car is not built so the fogs can be used without the lowbeams. Many other cars come that way.
Thanks, Steve
The step number 5 needs to be changed.
5. Splice the wires. The wiring harness consists of an inline, 5-prong plug, which is connected by five 18-20 gauge wires that are individually exposed for about an inch and then are bunched together by some rubber conduit tubing. Take the scissors or razor knife and carefully cut open the tube to expose more of the wires. You need to cut back about two inches, because you're going to want about three inches of slack to work with. Once you've cut the tubing, fan all the wires flat. You have five wires going to the harness. They are:
1. White/Blue - Ground side of indicator light (green light that shows fogs are on)
2. Blue/Red - Power to passenger side footwell relay
3. White/Red - Power from headlight switch
4. Red/Black - Power from taillight relay
5. Red - Connection to dash light brightness controller
Wire number 4 provides power to the icon on the switch whenever the lights are on (parking lights/taillights are all on one circuit). Wire number 3 provides power through the fog switch *only* if it detects the headlight switch in the low-beam position. So what we do is splice wires 3 and 4 together, thereby bypassing the headlight switch altogether. Now, whenever the taillights have power, so will this leg of the switch and the fogs will come on when the switch is pressed.
You can use whatever means you wish to join wires 3 and 4 together. Just remember you do need to cut the White/Red (wire3) wire about 2 to 3 inches from the connector, on the switch side splice the White/Red wire to the Red/Black wire (wire4). I highly recommend an inline automotive wiring splicer (sometimes called a Scotch-lock connector). These types of splicers are meant to be slid on over an exisiting attached wire and a second wire's free end is slid into the other side of the connector. The connector is then crimped and the latch cover is closed. . Then simply slide the wires into the connector, crimp the metal blade down through the wires and snap the plastic retaining tab closed. If you're good with solder you can solder in a jumper between wires 3 and 4, but that makes the mod much more permanent. I strongly recommend a two-wire inline connector and crimp. Be sure to Tape up the exposed end of the White/Red wire (wire 3) that was cut. Also I included a picture of a Scotch-lock connector...Hope this helps and keeps everyone safe!
Greg in Atlanta |
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| Gregc |
| For some reason the picture of a Scotch-lock did not show up!!! Let's try it again!!! |
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| rvehock |
quote:
Originally posted by Gregc
The step number 5 needs to be changed.
5. Splice the wires. The wiring harness consists of an inline, 5-prong plug, which is connected by five 18-20 gauge wires that are individually exposed for about an inch and then are bunched together by some rubber conduit tubing. Take the scissors or razor knife and carefully cut open the tube to expose more of the wires. You need to cut back about two inches, because you're going to want about three inches of slack to work with. Once you've cut the tubing, fan all the wires flat. You have five wires going to the harness. They are:
1. White/Blue - Ground side of indicator light (green light that shows fogs are on)
2. Blue/Red - Power to passenger side footwell relay
3. White/Red - Power from headlight switch
4. Red/Black - Power from taillight relay
5. Red - Connection to dash light brightness controller
Wire number 4 provides power to the icon on the switch whenever the lights are on (parking lights/taillights are all on one circuit). Wire number 3 provides power through the fog switch *only* if it detects the headlight switch in the low-beam position. So what we do is splice wires 3 and 4 together, thereby bypassing the headlight switch altogether. Now, whenever the taillights have power, so will this leg of the switch and the fogs will come on when the switch is pressed.
You can use whatever means you wish to join wires 3 and 4 together. Just remember you do need to cut the White/Red (wire3) wire about 2 to 3 inches from the connector, on the switch side splice the White/Red wire to the Red/Black wire (wire4). I highly recommend an inline automotive wiring splicer (sometimes called a Scotch-lock connector). These types of splicers are meant to be slid on over an exisiting attached wire and a second wire's free end is slid into the other side of the connector. The connector is then crimped and the latch cover is closed. . Then simply slide the wires into the connector, crimp the metal blade down through the wires and snap the plastic retaining tab closed. If you're good with solder you can solder in a jumper between wires 3 and 4, but that makes the mod much more permanent. I strongly recommend a two-wire inline connector and crimp. Be sure to Tape up the exposed end of the White/Red wire (wire 3) that was cut. Also I included a picture of a Scotch-lock connector...Hope this helps and keeps everyone safe!
Greg in Atlanta
Greg,
Thanks for the 411, I will make the changes you suggested. |
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| rvehock |
| Cut the red/white wire and all functions well, thanks for the information greg, I was unaware of any potential problems related to the original instructions from the TL website. I have also posted this information on the TL web forum so they can be aware of the potential wiring overload issue. |
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| HrdTsk |
I tried this mod today with my 2003 Mdx Touring Nav. The color of the 5 wires seems to have changed. Mine has (top to bottom at the switch) :
White/Blue
Blue/Green
Red/Green
Red/Black
Red
Does anyone know which wires to splice to accomplish this mod for the 03? |
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| EXCALIBUR |
HrdTsk,
It seems like the logical decision would be to splice the Red/Green and Red/Black wires together. I followed the original instructions by O-TownMDX for my 2002 MDX and they worked fine. Go for it and see if it works. Since you are only using an inline splicer, there would not be any irreversible damage if it does not work. If all goes wrong, I shall alert the bomb squad and your next of kin. Good luck.:) |
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| HrdTsk |
Thanks
I wonder if anyone has the schematics or knows of a way to test with a voltage tester? |
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| TheyCallMeBruce |
quote:
Originally posted by HrdTsk
Thanks
I wonder if anyone has the schematics or knows of a way to test with a voltage tester?
HrdTsk,
I've converted the wire colors from my 01 schematics to the 03 colors you provided, based on top to bottom harness positions.
wht/blu (heavy) = neg to combo switch for hi-bm cutout
blu/grn = pos to fog relay
red/grn (heavy) = pos from combo sw (20A)
red/blk = pos panel light circuit (15A)
red = neg to multiplex
The TL post mod calls for jumping the pos. panel light circuit to the pos. from the combo sw, that is, red/grn to red/blk.
I don't like this. You will notice that the red/blk will replace the red/grn, but the red/blk is much thinner than the red/grn. You will be taking a wire that is intended to support a .84 watt bulb (yes, less than 1 watt) to activate a high current solenoid relay switch, inducing a physical movement within the relay through an electro-mechanical motor (solenoid). Without testing through a micro-ammeter I have no idea how much power it takes to power the switch on this particular relay, but even if its just 200MA, that is still 3 times more than this wire was supposed to provide to the itty bitty indicator bulb. To figure the draw on this icon circuit, you would have to add up all the wattages for every single dash light, indicator light, and icon light which this circuit supports, then add a percentage for overload margin, then see if there is sufficient excess capacity to activate the fog relay, after you determine the average draw from the relay.
Plus, any electrical engineer will tell you;
Unless you know the entire scope of what you are dealing with (i.e. the total wattage/amperage suported by these circuits, both the icon light circuit and the fog relay circuit), you don't ever, ever, replace a wire with a thinner gauge wire - just as you would never replace a fuse with one of a higher capacity. You would be reducing your safety margin by an unknown degree.
I offer a friendly suggestion that you look for another way to power the fog relay besides sucking power from the delicate icon light.
P.S. Disclaimer:
I am 98% certain that I provided the correct wire codes, but without checking an 03 manual properly, it is possible to connect a high amperage 12 volt positive directly to the negative input of the multiplex controller, resulting in the destruction of your driver's multiplex unit (expensive computer module). |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by TheyCallMeBruce
just as you would never replace a fuse with one of a lower capacity. You would be reducing your safety margin by an unknown degree.
I think you meant don't replace a fuse with one of 'higher' capacity (it will blow later, or TOO late).
:)
But very good advice and consideration. |
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| TheyCallMeBruce |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
I think you meant don't replace a fuse with one of 'higher' capacity (it will blow later, or TOO late).
:)
But very good advice and consideration.
Damn, your fast! Not 2 minutes later and I get a correction from Ol' Dale.
Thanks. |
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| EXCALIBUR |
TheyCallMeBruce,
Hmmmm. Something to think about. Neverthless, splicing the White/Red and Red/Black wires together on my 2002 MDX worked for me without any adverse effects. This mod. allowed me to run my foglights with my parking lights. YMMV. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by TheyCallMeBruce
Damn, your fast! Not 2 minutes later and I get a correction from Ol' Dale.
Thanks.
Ha, ha! No problem my pleasure. Great advice you offer in your usual thoroughness. Reminds me of the Six P's!
Prior Planning Prevents Pi** Poor Performance
Good to remember before undertaking any task. |
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| HrdTsk |
| Given my limited technical ability, I think I will pass on the mod as suggested in this post. Could you propose an alternative within the scope of an adverage person? Please feel free to say no if that is what you think. |
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| EXCALIBUR |
HrdTsk,
"Nothing ventured, nothing gained." That being said, I shall notify the bomb squad to stand down.;) |
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| N_Jay |
The dash light hot is teh same circuit the runs most of the parking lights and other "lights on" circuits. Some are through relays, others are direct.
That circuit should have no trouble running one more relay.
Both my Pilot and CR-V are wired that way with the factory fuse, and no problems. |
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| TheyCallMeBruce |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
The dash light hot is teh same circuit the runs most of the parking lights and other "lights on" circuits. Some are through relays, others are direct.
That circuit should have no trouble running one more relay.
Both my Pilot and CR-V are wired that way with the factory fuse, and no problems.
Yes, I count 26 categories of items powered by this circuit, more items than any other fuse in the entire vehicle (albeit individually very low-powered items). And it may not be all that frequently that you would press on the brake pedal at night, while the glove box, both vanity mirrors, and the optional cigarette lighter is in the opened position and . . .
I never said the circuit couldn't handle the additional draw. What I am saying is:
1. Unless you make precise calculations, you don't know - you are making assumptions.
2. No custom automotive electronics installer, or regional power grid EE, will say it is advisable to replace the function of a power line with a lower capacity unit without knowing the above.
3. You won't find any literature, instructions, handbooks, technical references, in print or online that supports this type of blind modification.
So it begs the question;
why would Honda/Acura use a thicker gauge wire for the relay signal than the icon light, at higher expense?
A) they want to waste money
B) they want to make life harder for the wiring vendor by specifying differing gauge wires on the same harness without cause
C) they don't know how to add up the power consumption on this circuit and were just guessing that a thicker wire was better
D) they looked at the numbers and decided it was quantifiably necessary regardless of the inconvenience of implementing non-uniform wire gauges, at the expense of heavier gauge wiring.
Several people have performed this modification without any negative results. Therefore, it must be deemed safe and appropriate by current engineering standards (no, I'm not an elect. engineer and I don't know crap about designing circuits).
George Burns is puffing on his 4,937th cigar on his 100th birthday with a showgirl in his lap and says "Na, smoking doesn't hurt. Look at me!"
If anybody wants to perform this specific modification really badly, go ahead. Just know that . . . you don't really know!
Good luck. I'm a risk taker too. Alone, I didn't even know if I would make it back from the Arctic coast to the wife waiting at Dawson. |
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| EXCALIBUR |
TheyCallMeBruce,
Your point has been so noted. I sense your motivation is to be the voice of conservatism. The fact is many MDX owners, myself included, have performed this simple "no-cost" mod. with no adverse results. I love to be able to drive with the parking lights and foglights. So, for you brave souls willing to "throw caution to the wind", I say "step up to the plate and go for it.":29: |
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| TheyCallMeBruce |
quote:
Originally posted by EXCALIBUR
TheyCallMeBruce,
That being said, I sense your motivation is to be the voice of conservatism.
Uh, sort of, but not quite.
You would not be able to call the 200 hours or so of modifications I have performed on my MDX to be exactly "conservative." In addition to several other areas, I have modified the lighting system extensively. My fog modification was also near to zero cost, but I went through the effort to choose connection points which I felt were appropriate and I used wires which were either equal to or thicker than those I bypassed. Contrary to conservatism, in order to do a job right sometimes, you have to make seriously radical modifications. Pursuing such, I have torn out and replaced entire subsystems (such as when I rigged a previous car to roll all windows and moonroof down or up with the alarm remote, back in the late 80's before any kits were avail). If I am uncertain how my actions will affect the original system, I will disconnect the original and create a redundant system. Or else, do nothing at all.
But I'm glad everything worked out for you. Thanks for your response. |
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| EXCALIBUR |
TheyCallMeBruce,
Your are welcome...glad to have your views in the discussions.:) |
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| TopDog |
| For those of us that really need fog lights w/o headlights for real fog, how do the stock fog light perform? My experience has been that just about every factory installed fog light is crap. Is the MDX foglight sufficient, after your mod to run w/o headlights, for real fog, or am I better going back to my PIAA dealer and wiring them in with parking lights only? |
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| solomon |
quote:
Originally posted by TheyCallMeBruce
I have modified the lighting system extensively. My fog modification was also near to zero cost, but I went through the effort to choose connection points which I felt were appropriate and I used wires which were either equal to or thicker than those I bypassed.
Curious how you went about this... I assume you also provided a different power source to the fog relay? In perusing the schematics and wiring diagrams, I didn't see a particularly convenient location for this - unlike for my Audi, where it can be done in the fuse box itself.
I've not been entranced with the trigger-by-illumination circuit, but haven't seen a particularly nice way to get the same function. I would be interested in how you solved this problem.
Thanks,
Richard |
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| TheyCallMeBruce |
quote:
Originally posted by solomon
Curious how you went about this... I assume you also provided a different power source to the fog relay? In perusing the schematics and wiring diagrams, I didn't see a particularly convenient location for this - unlike for my Audi, where it can be done in the fuse box itself.
I've not been entranced with the trigger-by-illumination circuit, but haven't seen a particularly nice way to get the same function. I would be interested in how you solved this problem.
Thanks,
Richard
I do not have my fogs tied into the tail lights. They are wired like factory DRLs of most makes. What I did will only confuse you if you want the fogs to work automatically in the combo light intermediate position.
I've only just started to look at the problem this way, and I'm not fully confident, but this is the direction I am working it, if I were to run the fogs in the intermediate position:
Based on '01 manual color codes
1. Jump the wht/red from the fog switch to IG2 yel ignition wire using an integrated fuse piece loaded with a 3amp ATC.
This allows power to the fog switch whenever the ignition is on. The fogs will not activate by themselves because the permanent ground will be re-routed to a switched source in the next step.
2. At the combo switch harness I would pull out the wht/blu pin (all harnesses Ihave seen on the MDX so far are quick release designs, just pop open the harness and pull gently with needle nose, you can insert just as easily) and attach it to the red/yel pinout.
This keeps the fogs from coming on except when the headlight switch is in the parking light or headlight position.
These mods will not defeat the fog switch, you can turn it on and off as before, with the addition of turning them on with only the parking lights. Why go through all the trouble? My idea is to avoid replacing a wire with a thinner gauge, and pull the additional draw (a very small draw) from the very heavy IG2 wire instead. Yes, I'm still sucking power from an un-intended source, but the difference is that I would be using the absolute thickest wire in the cabin compared the the absolute thinnest wire. I would also be redundantly providing a fused-controlled power source with a larger gauge wire rather than replacing a wire with a thinner piece.
Again, I haven't done this, I went with an entirely different arrangement. Somebody speak up if you see any weaknesses in this setup. |
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| N_Jay |
The relay takes fractions of an amp.
Even 24 guage wire will carry well over 1 amp.
To make everyone happy, pick up the same circuit, just get it off a lead running to a larger load, and therefore running in a thicker wire.
The same color code is typically the same circuit. (But test to be sure) |
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| EXCALIBUR |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
The relay takes fractions of an amp.
Even 24 guage wire will carry well over 1 amp.
To make everyone happy, pick up the same circuit, just get it off a lead running to a larger load, and therefore running in a thicker wire.
The same color code is typically the same circuit. (But test to be sure)
Sounds good to me.:D |
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| HrdTsk |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
The relay takes fractions of an amp.
Even 24 guage wire will carry well over 1 amp.
To make everyone happy, pick up the same circuit, just get it off a lead running to a larger load, and therefore running in a thicker wire.
The same color code is typically the same circuit. (But test to be sure)
Sorry
What exactly do you mean with regard to the mod?
Do you have access to the 2003 schematics? Does anyone?
Sorry, with my level of expertise, I need the cookbook approach. |
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| EXCALIBUR |
quote:
Originally posted by HrdTsk
Sorry
What exactly do you mean with regard to the mod?
Do you have access to the 2003 schematics? Does anyone?
Sorry, with my level of expertise, I need the cookbook approach.
Come on guys. It looks like HrdTsk might be back in on the rewiring foglights mod. Let's talk some plain english and K.I.S.S.:1zhelp: |
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| catzx6 |
| Maybe this will help someone. |
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| HrdTsk |
Yes, when I took off the kick panel and inspected the fog light switch on the 03 MDX, I found top to bottom:
White/Blue
Blue/Green
Red/Green
Red/Black
Red |
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| HrdTsk |
quote:
Originally posted by catzx6
Maybe this will help someone.
Also, may I ask where did you get this schematic? |
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| catzx6 |
quote:
where did you get this schematic?
Pg. 22-104 of the '03 Service Manual. ;) |
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| TheyCallMeBruce |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Even 24 guage wire will carry well over 1 amp.
Uh, where did you get this particular figure? And for what length of wire? Just curious. Thanks. |
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| N_Jay |
There are lots of ampacity tables available.
A google search will fine enough to drive you crazy (as they all say different things).
Ampacity has more to do with acceptable voltage drop, and temperature rise than what the wire will carry before failure.
For the current levels and lengths we are talking about voltage drop is almost irrelevent. |
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| TheyCallMeBruce |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
There are lots of ampacity tables available.
A google search will fine enough to drive you crazy (as they all say different things).
Yes, they all have differing results. This is why I ask. The parameters of what is considered acceptable is an extremely important criterion.
Which chart did you use?
Have you ever have tried to power a 12VDC, 1 amp motor with 24 ga wire? You're telling me the voltage drop is neglible and the temperature rise is insignificant?
Now you have me really intrigued. Thanks if you have the time to provide the specific information of how you arrived at the 24ga/1amp specification. |
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| N_Jay |
1) The relay does not take 1A, doubt it takes 1/2 that but did not measure.
2) A motor losses power at about the square of the voltage drop, where a relay works fine down to the drop out voltage.
3) Voltage drop is related to the wire length, and these runs are short.
4) Temp rise might be a concern, but since I am way under the 1 A, and I feel that is a conserative number (Seems a few I looked at had 24 at 1.3 Amps) I did not worry.
I dont thing the wire is as thin as 24, but it is under 18 from what I recall. |
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| EXCALIBUR |
Gentlemen,
Q: If it takes a hen and a half, a day and a half, to lay an egg and a half...how long does a roster have to sit on a doorknob to hatch a hardware store?:confused: :confused: :confused: |
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| TheyCallMeBruce |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
1) The relay does not take 1A, doubt it takes 1/2 that but did not measure.
2) A motor losses power at about the square of the voltage drop, where a relay works fine down to the drop out voltage.
3) Voltage drop is related to the wire length, and these runs are short.
4) Temp rise might be a concern, but since I am way under the 1 A, and I feel that is a conserative number (Seems a few I looked at had 24 at 1.3 Amps) I did not worry.
I dont thing the wire is as thin as 24, but it is under 18 from what I recall.
After reading this, I have to agree with Excaliber that this is not the proper place to continue this discussion, realizing the potential for a never ending debate with minimal benefit to the community. For the Good of the Order, and without acknowledging material concession, I withdraw the entirety of my questions and assertions in this regard. N_Jay, see you in another thread - take care and happy motoring. |
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| EXCALIBUR |
| And they lived happily ever after.:) |
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| SuperDuty Steve |
...from terminal 3 of the foglight (green/red wire) to a +12volt wire that is on with parking lights, I could operate the fog lights whenever the parking lights are on?
If I then turned the fog light switch ON...
Then when the parking lights were turned on, the fogs would come on...
...and the fogs would stay on when the high beams were turned on as well, right?
This being the case, what wire in the area would be hot when the parking lights are turned on? What's an easy one to tap into in the underdash area?
Would there be a need to cut the wire or install a diode at the red/green wire (terminal 3)? I don't see any need...but I am a hobbyist level electronics installer, not a pro...I don;t see any feedback problems, do you?
Thanks,
Steve |
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| TheyCallMeBruce |
quote:
Originally posted by SuperDuty Steve
...and the fogs would stay on when the high beams were turned on as well, right?
The MDX is a complex and moody animal.
The fogs are not directly ground to negative. The fog negative go through the combination light switch such that it cuts out whenever the highbeams are applied.
To bypass this feature, I jumped the fog negative to the harness negative at the combination switch harness connector. No splicing or dicing, just stripped 3/8" off the ends of a gauge-matched 2" wire, opened the connector pin retaining flap, and shoved the stripped ends into the cavities, and secured them place with mini-cable ties to the piggy-back original wires [see my pics in the "always on accessory socket" thread]. Now, the fogs stay on even when the high beams are on. I don't want to give color codes because I have an '01 and the '03 might have harness changes to accomodate the autoheadlights.
Mods to the foglight switch in itself will not alter the fog cutout feature during highbeaming. |
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| HrdTsk |
Even with no mod (OEM setup), I have noticed that the fog lights do not always go off when the high beams are turned on.
If you pull the turn signal/high beam stalk toward you as if you were flashing your high beams and hold it there, the high beams are on and the fogs stay on. When you let go, the high beams turn off.
If you pull the turn signal/high beam stalk further you will hear the click of a switch and the fogs turn off. When you let go of the stalk the high beams stay on, the fogs stay off. |
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| ACURA58 |
quote:
Originally posted by TheyCallMeBruce
The MDX is a complex and moody animal.
The fogs are not directly ground to negative. The fog negative go through the combination light switch such that it cuts out whenever the highbeams are applied.
To bypass this feature, I jumped the fog negative to the harness negative at the combination switch harness connector. No splicing or dicing, just stripped 3/8" off the ends of a gauge-matched 2" wire, opened the connector pin retaining flap, and shoved the stripped ends into the cavities, and secured them place with mini-cable ties to the piggy-back original wires [see my pics in the "always on accessory socket" thread]. Now, the fogs stay on even when the high beams are on. I don't want to give color codes because I have an '01 and the '03 might have harness changes to accomodate the autoheadlights.
Mods to the foglight switch in itself will not alter the fog cutout feature during highbeaming.
Could you please tell me where to find the 'combination switch harness connector' that you referred to. A pic would be very helpful.
Thank You, |
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| kwickone |
Hey all,
Just did this mod and all went well. I did notice one piece of undesireable behavior and I wanted to bounce it off the board to see if this is expected. After completing the mod, the indicator light (green) on on the fog light switch does not work. Was this powered by the red/white (cut) wire? Or do I just have something wrong?
Not a huge deal, but annoying nonetheless.
Thanks,
Ken |
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| RonH |
| Just did this mod this weekend. The green indicator still works for me. |
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| highcountrymdx |
Just rewired my fogs so they now operate with both low and high beams, as detailed by PsychoKnight, above. Simple fix, 30 minutes, great results! Here's the details for '03 & '04 X's:
I have an '04 X and used the service and electrical manual to sort this all out.
You have to get to the connector for the combination light switch. It is located beneath the upper steering wheel column cover trim piece. Getting that trim piece off is the trickiest part of the whole procedure. The service manual just says to remove it, but gives no clue on how to do it.
You remove it by separating it from the lower trim piece. First lower the steering wheel to its lowest position. Then squeeze the side of the lower trim IN, relative the upper trim piece, and it will separate. There are 3 molded clips on each side, and two across the front, behind the steering wheel. It takes a LOT of finesse. I tried several times, and almost gave up. If you pry them apart, you run the risk of damaging the molded clips on the lower trim piece. The upper trim piece lifts off. Leave the lower trim piece attached (by 3 screws).
The connector for the combination light switch is located to the extreme left of the steering column, attached to the back of the combination light switch. On the '04, the connector is colored a neutral color. On the '03, the connector is grey. Separate the connector from the combination light switch by squeezing the clip on the top part of the connector, and wiggle it free. The connector for the '04 & '03 does NOT open to expose the pins, as was the case with PsychoKnight's X. Instead, find the white/blue wire in the #2 top cavity (the #1 cavity is empty), and splice that to the black wire just below it. Any Radio Shack or auto parts store has wire slice connectors that splice two wires together. Just position the two wires in the connector, and squeeze with a pair of pliers to splice. No cutting of wires necessary.
Snap the top and bottom trim pieces together, readjust the steering wheel and the job is complete. If you are a bit shy slicing wires, etc., any radio install shop can do it very easily.
I don't have a scanner to show the connector in the service/electrical manuals. The relevant pages for this procedure are from the '03/'04 Electrical Troubleshooting Manual:
1. Page 110-13 (Wiring Diagram)
2. Page 201-6 / Photo 39 (Location Of Combination Light Switch Connector)
3. Page 202-55 / #285 (Combination Light Switch Connector Terminal View)
Enjoy
:26: |
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| phins2rt |
| Thanks highcountry!! :29: |
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| G. COLTON |
quote:
Originally posted by Gregc
I hate to bring this up, but this Mod could cause very serious problems. Connecting Red/Black wire to the Wht/Red wire connects 2 different circuits fused by 2 different sized fuses. The fuse for the Red/Black wire is 15a fuse 10 (this is the fuse for most running lights and the Multiplex control unit) on the passenger's side. The fuse for Wht/Red is a 20a fuse 43 (this is the fuse for the right side headlamps). Adding these 2 values together brings you up to 35amps. That means when the headlights are on you have 2 paths to get 12volt power at a total of 35 amps. This could be very dangerous if a component shorted out or drew too much current. The wires could overheat and start a fire, or you could damage the Multiplex Controller. This mod would be better if you cut the Wht/Red wire and used one of the Scotch-lock connectors to connect the switch end of the Wht/Red wire with the Red/Blk wire. That would acomplish what you want without cross wiring the circuits. You would need to insulate the cut end of the Wht/Red wire. Should work fine that way. For those that have cross wired the circuits, simply cut the Wht/Red wire past your connection and insulate both sides and you should be good! Never just tie 2 circuits together, you are inviting trouble.
Greg in Atlanta
You are very correct. This mod can have serious implications if something was to go wrong.
Don't know why anybody would want to do this anyway. they must live in very foggy country. |
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| highcountrymdx |
G Colton, this procedure has ZERO "serious implications" because you are not connecting two separate circuits together. All this procedure does is supply an additional separate ground path for the fog lights relay. No added circuits, amps, volts, etc, etc. Electrical loads on the car's circuits are not effected.
Finally, you would understand the value of flooding the roadway with as much light as possible, if you shared some of these isolated mountain roads with all manner of wildlife as I do, daily. Because the MDX's fog lights throw a wide illuminated pathway of light, think of them not as 'Fog Lights', but as 'Flood Lights'. |
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| kawikid |
| Ok guys, my 05 X has different color wires than the '03. I wanted to have the fogs come on with either the parking lights, or the low beams. Has anyone attempted this yet? If necessary I can list the wire colors, but was hoping someone has already sorted this project all out. |
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| pej7445 |
Is the 05 X wiring the same as the 04? I'm planning to do this mod and want to make sure before I start.
Thanks. |
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| ghabicht |
quote:
Is the 05 X wiring the same as the 04? I'm planning to do this mod and want to make sure before I start.
DITTO.... |
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| pianoman41 |
Hi all,
The first post in this thread was originally posted by me waaaaay back in 2001 on acura-tl.com (now part of the Acurazine.com conglomerate). There had been multiple requests for this mod (including myself), so after some studying of the diagrams in the FSM I came up with the mod. It was done dozens of times without incident, including my '02 TL-S (which I still have BTW). I just bought a brand new '05 MDX for the wife, and I will probably do this mod to this vehicle as well.
GregC's correction about the mod is spot on. Originally I just tied the two circuits together, so the fog relay would draw power when it got the 12V feed from the taillight circuit (taillights, dashlights, etc), as opposed to waiting for the 12V from the lowbeam circuit. The wiring can certainly handle the load since the relay still draws the high power from the original source side--the 12V feed from the taillight circuit is just an on/off switch that tells it when to work and when not to. The original mod was done with the intention of making it very "undoable" by just removing the jumper and being back to stock, in case you ever wanted to do that. However, as GregC pointed out, the proper way to finish this mod is to make the cut he suggested, thus killing the relay 12V feed from the lowbeam circuit side. Obviously, it will make the mod harder to "undo" since you would now have to splice in a bridge wire to rejoin what you snipped. It definitely makes the circuit safer on paper, but in reality it's probably a non-issue. I'll be doing this mod on the '05 MDX shortly and I'll let you know if I snip the original feed or not. :) |
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| pej7445 |
I actually had a 2003 TL-S that I did this mod to. It was easy and very useful. I used the fogs as DRL's.
Keep me posted as you do this mod to your 05 X.
Thanks. |
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| dean0224 |
Sorry I am too stupid.
I couldn't find the phillip screw in my 05 X to release the underdash kick panel. anyone has photos ?
and im trying to open the steer wheel column upper cover. been trying many times. turn on signal, low, high beam, rain wiper and horn many times. everything moved but the cover just like a rock. ill keep trying.....
anyone has other trick? or photos. Is 05 same as 04?
:confused: :( |
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| pej7445 |
| Has anyone done this mod yet? |
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| timn99 |
Would like to do this mod also on and '05. An updated post with detailed instructions AND pictures would be very appreciated. I'm sure many other '05 owners would like to do this also. Calling all engineers!!
Eagerly awaiting,
Tim
:D |
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| le1love |
I know this is an old tread but for the life of me I can't figure out which color wires to splice. I have a 2004 MDX and from what I understand, the 2003 and 2004 models share the same Helms electrical manual.
If anyone has done this mod with either an 03 or 04, what wires do you splice. I tried splicing the Red/Green and Red/Black together but all that did was turn BOTH headlights and fog lights on with the parking lights. It would not allow me to turn the fog lights on independently of the low beams.
I know 2001-2002 models you splice Red/White and Red/Black together and with 2005's Red/Green and Red/Black.
Any advise would be appreciated |
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| pej7445 |
Can anyone verify which wires need to be spliced for the 2005?
I saw in the previous post that it could be Red/Green or Red Black.
Any help would be appreciated. |
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| bobholthaus |
I have a 2006 and if you cut wire #3 and run a switched hot lead from the fuse box spliced to where you just cut, you will have full control of the fogs whenever the key is on, so you can use them as DRL's. They go off with the high beams. No jumping wires, just one hot lead to the end you cut (the end coming out of the switch).
Oh, and to get the switch out, you don't have to take anything apart. Just reach up under the dash and push it out from the back. It will pop right out. |
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| normrd |
Tried this on my 04 splicing wires 3/4 like stated but something is wrong.
Basically, with just the parking lights on the fogs were on but the passenger headlight was also on and the highbeams were also barely on.
Removed it and normal operation is back.
I just want the fogs to work with the parking lights.
Any help would be appreciated. |
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| bobholthaus |
| Re-read my post. On a 2006, you only deal with wire #3. Run it down to the fuse box and piggyback on an ignition switched fuse and you're good to go. When you turn your parking lights on, turn the fogs on as well. |
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