| Towels, towels and towels...
- Click HERE for Original Thread
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| Bobby Sandler |
Dear Detailing Gurus -
I hope you won't throw me off this web site if I confess that I care PRIMARILY about protecting my car's paint, and much less about an incredibly beautiful shine (I'm not saying that I would be happy driving around with a burlap sack wrapped around the car to protect it; I do appreciate a shiny and beautifully clean car -- but I am saying that I don't care much about achieving a "show room finish," with absolutely no swirl marks). That said, does it really matter what cotton towels I use to apply Zaino?
And pardon my complete ignorance in matters of car cleaning: are chamois cloths good for any applications? I haven't read any mention of them?
Thanks for your patience with this novice....
Sincerely,
Bobby Sandler |
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| TheWorm |
Zaino will do a great job of "protecting" your paintjob, which you say is your primary concern. It'll even protect the scratches and swirls from crappy towels :)
Just get the Royal Velvet irregulars, in white, here:
http://www.fieldcrestcannonoutlet.com/royalvelvet.html
BTW you don't mention what color your car is...darker colors show scratches/swirls/flaws more than lighter colors. If you have white, then it probably doesn't matter. Then again, the outlet prices are not much more $ (if at all) than a crappy towel elsewhere... |
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| Bobby Sandler |
Dear Worm -
Thanks for the link to the Fieldcrest towels.
Before I posted my question about towels, I made an appointment with an auto detailer to come to my house this coming Monday (4-22-02), to give my new MDX (Granite Green) it's first bath in Dawn detergent, and then apply its first coats of Zaino. (I spoke with someone at Zaino, and he suggested just the Z2, Z7, Claybar and ZFX.) The detailer that is coming to do the work has never seen Zaino before. I told him I wanted to buy some Fieldcrest, 100% cotton towels for the job, and he said he would buy some new, white cotton towels at a janitorial supply house, but that he didn't think it would matter which towels he used. (Can you imagine that!? You guys have higher standards than the run-of-the-mill detailer. I respect you for that, and am grateful that I have this website to read your advice about caring for my car.)
So, now that you've given me the link to inexpensive Fieldcrest towels, should I postpone the appointment with the detailer? Will the first coats of Zaino be the most important ones, and will the inferior towels make all subsequent coats look less than they should or could? Or can I have the detailer go ahead with the job, knowing that I can put on better coats in the future, with the Fieldcrest Towels?
Once again, thanks for your reply,
Bobby |
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| octavian |
Bobby, sure no problem using whatever towels the detailers scrounges up at the janitorial supply store........
But don't be surprised if you have to invite him back again to get out the potential spider scratches or worse that he put on your X.
I don't know the guy, but if he supposedly is a professional detailer and does not know the difference between 100% cotton towels and janitorial supply towels and never applied Zaino before (implying he is unfamiliar with polymer-based "waxes" like Zaino and Klasse), he wouldn't come within a mile of my X.
Do it right the first time, every time.....ya got the Zaino.....now do it yourself or get a more experienced detailer.
OK, I will get off my Zainobox, now....
:D |
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| TheWorm |
In all fairness to professional detailers, most don't know about Klasse or Zaino -- or don't talk about them anyway -- because as polymers they last significantly longer than carnauba waxes. Result? Less business. Plus, the carnaubas tend to haze and buff immediately whereas the polymers typically need some cure time. Result? Takes longer to detail a car. Finally, the carnaubas are a 1-coat-and-done, whereas the best results and protection from a polymer is from layering.
The not-100%-cotton-towels might be "OK" with the normal detailing drill since that might include a glaze to fill scratches and swirls...including those "installed" with the not-100%-cotton-towels.
Problem w/Zaino is that it REALLY shows the car's finish, whether the finish is good or bad. Which is why I made my somewhat-wry comment about it protecting the scrathes/swirls from crappy towels.
Of course, assuming the janitorial towels are clean, they're probably no worse than what your dealer did during prep with those towels that were stored on the ground and used on the dozen cars before yours. :)
BTW, I'd be inclined to use z5 for the first few coats.
Up to you!
ps - what happened to Steve P? South Bay too far for Marin I guess?
pps - how much are you paying the detailer? I might make myself available Monday and could bring my own towels ;) |
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| Bobby Sandler |
Hey Worm --
You smile and wink when you express the possibility of coming to beautiful Marin with your own towels? But why not make it real?
I would love to have your expert councel, and be shown the master's way of applying Zaino. Who knows, you might turn me into a neat-freak (my wife will love you for it).
The detailer said he would charge me about $75. to wash the car and apply at least one coat of Zaino (with his brand new, crappy towels). I figure you must be worth at least twice that. I know you were kidding about coming, but I'd be happy to pay you double what the detailer was going to charge, and I'd still consider that you were doing me a favor. I don't know where you live, or what your situation is, but think about it.
The car is looking pretty dusty and dirty right now, so we could take before and after digital photos (with my new 4 Megapixel camera), and post pictures of your good work on this website.
How about it? If you say no, I'll have to fly Octavian out from Texas, and he may not be willing to bring his own towels.
Bobby:D |
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| TheWorm |
| Octavian doesn't provide towels, but you do get a free set of bullhorns with a full detail :D |
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| octavian |
Oh, no, Worm, that was LAST month's special.....just like Tim, I gotta change my specials to keep y'all interested.
THIS month's special for flying me out to beautiful Marin county is a free Texas gun rack, custom made for your X.....you provide the guns, though, I can't get them thru security.
If guns are not your schtick, for June I offer a complete, ready made Fire Ant Farm for you to amuse your friends and annoy the hell out of your neighbors. All you do is shake vigorously and heave over your fence.....and watch 'em scatter (both the ants AND your neighbors)......ha he hee ho ho.....let me tell you, it's a blast!
But, now, please, let us all bow our heads in prayer for all us Texans.....
> Bless this house, oh Lord, we cry,
> Please keep it cool in mid-July.
> Bless the walls where termites dine,
> While ants and roaches march in time.
> Bless our yard where spiders pass
> Fire ant castles in the grass.
> Bless the garage, a home to please-
> Carpenter beetles, ticks and fleas.
> Bless the love bugs, two by two,
> The gnats and mosquitoes that feed on you.
> Millions of creatures that fly or crawl,
> In Texas, Lord, you've put them all!
> But this is home, and here we'll stay,
> So thank you Lord, for INSECT SPRAY!!
Diazinon special for July, anyone?
:D |
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| Homer2 |
Bobby - personally, I would cancel the detailer.
reasons?
the towel thing first off -
and if he is only charging $75 for dawn wash, then clay, then re-wash - then a ZFX'd application (which should be 2 coats from a mixed bottle, at least) - he wont be a happy camper - and that to me smells like trouble as far as quality. Also, he wont be familiar
(as mentioned above) and the results may not be what they should be.
Now, its a little pricey to fly me in from Toronto :D - BUT
I have made up a user guide that is very "first-timer" friendly. Most of my customers are new to decent car care and zaino - so I start from the beginning. It is a combo of personal use , zaino directions and tips from the various forums I visit. (also, its a work in progress and it does not cover all products yet - but we can get by that easy enough)
If you email me - dennis@mossmans.com , I'd gladly email it you you ( it is 6 printed pages in Word format) . Once you have read it through, i would be glad to answer any questions you emailed me back with, or posted here about it.
I dont send it though, unless you specifically ask for it, cause I wont send any unsolicited mail to any address on a forum I belong to.
cheers . . . |
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| Bobby Sandler |
I can't believe what terrific individuals are on this web site!
I get great advice and information almost instantly, every time I have questions (and now, an offer from a Zaino distributor to send me detailed instructions -- which I desperately need -- on how to apply his product).
Thanks to all of you who have helped me, on several threads already.
Bobby:D
P.S. (to the Zaino distributor):
I sent you a private email. |
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| Robyjo |
WAIT, WAIT, WAIT!!!
I gotta know:
*Did Worm quit his dayjob, leave his house, $$, kids and wife (in that order) to take up the towel and preach Zaino to the masses?
*Did Octavian drop the bullhorn and exchange his brown iced tea for the red herbal iced tea in beautiful California?
*Did Homer offer all Acuramdx.org members specials on their Zaino purchases regardless of location?
Rob ;)
(BTW Bobby--good move asking these guys before going on--they're the pros! Also, seems to me that even if a gleaming finish isn't what you're looking for, application of Zaino is still of utmost importance for true paint protection.) |
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| Homer2 |
Discounts ?! ? ! sure - if you live in my territory and spend $1000 on a start-up order :D :eek:
Bobby - did you get the reply to your mail?
I get so many emails when i hit the screen in the morning, that i cant recall them all -
and Robyjo - the protection is the unsung hereo of the Zaino line-up. I value it as much as the shine - sometimes more when i get too busy to do the car - i know its still there for quite a while, and i can get back at it when things are calmer . . .
oddly enough, its busy season up here in the great white north - spring and all - so i often have little time to take care of my own cars. :( |
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| Bobby Sandler |
Dennis,
I'm going to post my questions about applying Zaino for the first time, so that anyone who is in the same situation as I am, can benefit from your (or anyone else's) answers.
I'm a little confused about where to start. The instructions that came from Zaino, with my purchase, say to claybar the car FIRST, while lubricating it with diluted Z7 from a spray bottle. Then, it says to wash the car with Dawn detergent.
My car is dirty. It even has some tree sap on it. Shouldn't I wash the sap off of it and give it a good washing in Dawn first, and then use the claybar?
And do you know how to remove sap?
As I understand the instructions, this is the order I should follow:
1. Clay bar the car while lubricating surface with diluted Z7.
2. Wash the car with Dawn.
3. Wash the car with Z7 Zaino.
4. Dry the car with my Fieldcrest "Charisma" towels.
5. Apply Z2 Zaino mixed with ZFX.
6. When the Zaino is dry, wipe it off with more clean towels.
7. Repeat steps 5 & 6 for up to three coats.
Is that the right order?
Or do I need to wash the car with Dawn first, then claybar?
And if I wash the car with Dawn first, then claybar, do I Z7 after that?
Thanks,
Bobby
:confused: |
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| octavian |
Bobby, don't feel bad....the instructions are quite nebulous on the points you mentioned.....here is what I would do....
1. Dawn it - get as much crud as you can off and start with a clean car
2. Claybar it - (with Z7 lube) it will remove most of your other crud - I have removed what I think was tree sap with the bar but not all tree sap may be created equal....there have been some posts on this topic on this site on alternatives
3. Was it with Z7
4. Dry with your new (but wash 'em first and take labels off towels)
4. Z2 it - with ZFX mixed in
5. Wait and wipe
6. Optional - Z6 (but highly recommended at least after last coat)
7. Repeat 4 - 6 until your arm falls off
That's it.....now, of course, you have to take pictures and share them with all of us!
:D |
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| Homer2 |
Yeah - what he said ! :)
all that typing saved - Thanks . . . |
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| Bobby Sandler |
Thanks, Octavian, for the instructions and encouragement, and thanks, Dennis, for the vote of affirmation.
I'm still waiting for my new towels to arrive (I ordered them from the Fieldcrest Outlet on line), and I'll probably get some tree sap remover to have on hand, in case I have too much sap for the clay bar to handle.
I promise to take before and after pictures (but I may have to start a whole new thread on how to post the photos after I take them).
Bobby |
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| octavian |
I just claybarred my wife's Ody today.....these claybars are big sapsuckers, so you should have no problem.
Good thing I had a spare claybar though. I was having problems mashing down the claybar so it would fit into my handy dandy form-fitting wrist claybar applicator pad, so I put it on my tool bench and hammered the hell out of it.
Problem was the clay bar snarfed up the wood chips from the pressed wood bench. This would not be so good on my car.....can we all say "sandpaper"? Good, I knew we could.
So I whipped out my spare claybar and did it. Disappointing though. Hardly anything came out of the Ody. I was hoping for huge chucks of stuff, to make me feel that I accomplished something, but noooooooooooooooooo!
Anyway, did 2 coats of Z2 (ZFX enhanced). Looks great. Keep us posted Bobby!;) |
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| paul123 |
| I just noticed this thread, and I've been going nuts looking for a website to buy towels and just saw your link and bought about $50 dollars worth. I just zaino'ed my MDX and my 2000 Maxima SE and they look great. I used the clay bar bar for the first time on both cars and used the excellerator also for the first time and they were both excellent. As always zaino comes thru with excellent results. I would of posted pic's but it just got dark as I finished, and figured everyone is probably sick of my pic's at this point. :D |
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| Bobby Sandler |
Dear Detailers,
Sorry for the slight shift in subject here, but I don't want to start a new thread just to highlight the depth of my ignorance of car washing techniques.
I now have my towels (3 Charisma Bath Sheets, and 4 Royal Velvet Hand Towels -- which have just been washed with liquid laundry soap and hang dried), my dawn, isopropyl alcohol, Zaino Z7. Claybar, Z2 and ZFX. I have a large driveway, stepladders, multiple hoses (with hot and cold water if I want), and the desire to get started on my GG MDX. But each step of the way seems to bring another question.
Are the towels just for drying? Or do I use a towel to apply the dawn? In other words (don't laugh, I really have never known the correct way to wash a car), how do I apply the soap and rinse it off? With a sponge? With my bedsheets? With my wife's lingerie?
Please advise.
(What Eliza Doolittle was to the English language, I am to car detailing.)
Bobby |
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| octavian |
Oooooh, kinda kinky if you ask me....wife's lingerie.....they will work, as long as you use the all cotton variety. And avoid anything with wires in them.:D
I presume you have already have clayed the car, now you wanna wash it.
I personally use a wash mitt, but never fear, you have most everything you need. Spray X. Get Dawn. Water. Bucket. Mix about 1oz of Dawn per gallon.
Fold one of your cotton hand towels into a pad. Dip into bucket and wash X all over. Rinse thoroughly. If in sun, wash one section at a time, then rinse.
Use large cotton towels to dry thoroughly. Then do your Zaino routine, described previously.
One question, though. Didn't notice if ya get some Z6? (Spray glosser). |
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| renov8r |
SHUDDER, hooooorrrors...
But seriously, a mitt is gonna hold onto to "stuff" that just won't get into a towel PLUS a towel has LOTS MORE surface area than a mitt AND you can keep folding a towel into infinte 'origami shapes' to work suds into area around grill & hatch that just can't be gotten to wit' a mitt...
Finally, I can't stress enough the importance of using about ten times more water to wet down the car than you think you need-- I'm talking so much water that you feel guilty and want to report yourself to the 'water resource board'. The reason is simple: wet dirt comes off, semi-wet dirt SCRATCHES YOUR VEHICLE! Same goes for the suds vs elbow grease -- suds don't scratch but pressure WILL. Note, too much soap is a messy waste (but at least won't scratch) while too little soap will leave crud on your vehicle that will 'pollute' your clay bar. For "subsequent washes" too much soap will strip off wax, but INITIALLY you want that puppy CLEAN, and in all cases, YOU CAN USE NEVER TOO MUCH WATER! |
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| Bobby Sandler |
Octavian:
No. I don't have Z6, nor Z5.
Remember, I'm the guy who was saying (at first) that he didn't care about the shine, just about the protection.
Well, after reading all your posts (and barbs and jabs), I realize that a pretty shine would be nice. So I want to do everything right. But it's too late for the first round. I will probably order some Z5 and/or Z6 for my next coats, depending on the results of the first application.
Bobby |
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| octavian |
HA....that's what I used to tell my wife about Pentouse magazine...."oh, I am mostly interested in the articles and poignant commentary rather than all those, ah, pictures.:D
But seriously, once you get started with Zaino and have done a dynamite job protecting the paint, you will suddenly look and say, "hmmm, maybe I have been missing something here. Maybe I CAN get both.....protection AND a great shine to boot!"
Once you are satisfied with the articles, you will realize that those pictures aren't half bad after all. Nyuk, Nyuk.:D
Z2 will do fine for ya. You may want to experiment with Z5 down the road. But Z6 is a must......besides being a glosser it adds to your UV protection and can be sprayed on body, glass, rims, you name it. Amazing product.
OK, I'll quit now....methinks I have given you your daily ration of "barbs and jabs".....
;) |
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| Bobby Sandler |
Yesterday, with the help of an auto detailer, I scrubbed down my MDX with Dawn, claybarred it while lubricating it with Z7, washed it again with Z7, dried it with my Charisma towels, and applied three coats of Z2.
It looks great. I will add more coats over the next few weeks.
Thanks to all who coached me along in this process.
Bobby |
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| TheWorm |
| Hey, Bobby...congrats! Post a couple of pics and let us see! |
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| Robyjo |
C'mon, admit it Bobby--you're just as excited about the way she looks as you are about the paint protection now, right?
Rob :cool: |
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| Bobby Sandler |
Okay. I admit it. Yesterday, I fondled my car, lubricated, massaged, Zaino'ed and admired it for hours, all in full view of my neighbors. I just felt so close to my vehicle, that I didn't feel right talking about it so soon. It's like kissing and telling. :p
Actually, putting on the coats of Zaino so thin that I could barely see them, and then tilting my head to see if it was drying into a haze, made me feel a little like the Emperor in "The Emperor's New Clothes." I expected my eight year old daughter to come outside and say, "Dad, what do you think you're putting on the car? There's nothing in that bottle. The car is naked!"
But, after two coats, I could see and feel the difference. I did three coats, and will take a photo after I add a few more (probably next week).
Thanks again,
Bobby |
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| octavian |
| bobby, congrats.....your neighbors now know something about you they may have only suspected.....might make for a reallllllllly interesting time the next time there is a neighborhood barbecue......oh, and don't forget plenty of Zaino.:D |
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| mikel51 |
I picked up my new X (MB with touring and navi) on 4/30, and Zainoed it over the weekend (5/4 and 5/5). I picked up a bunch of Cannon towels at Bed, Bath and Beyond for $5.99 (6 bath towels) and $1.99 ( 4 hand towels). I used dawn, claybar, Z7, Z5 (w/ZFX), Z5 (w/ZFX), Z6, and Z2 (no ZFX) on Saturday. After 2 coats of Z5, I really was feeling like the emperor had no clothes. I put the first coat on very thin, and wasn't really sure that I had done anything except lower the amount of Z5 in the bottle--I had used less than 1/2 of the 2 oz mixing bottle. The second coat of Z5 went on a little thicker, and I just barely finished the car with about 1.25-1.5 ounces left in the mixing bottle. By the time I Finished Z6ing the car, it was starting to look decent. Since I knew that one more coat was all I could stand for the day, I didn't use ZFX for my first coat of Z2. I wiped it off in the garage out of the sunlight, and also thought this was OK looking, but not sure whether it was worth all the extra work compared to regular wax. I really didn't have time to Z6 it on Saturday night because we were already late to join some friends for dinner.
On Sunday morning some Z6 went on-now the car was starting look pretty good. One coat of Z2 in the morning--with no ZFX since I know that I was only good for one coat today. In the afternoon I moved the car out into the sun and wiped off the Z2 and then Z6ed it. It is now looking pretty nice with 2 coats of Z5 and 2 coats of Z2. Since I am not the kind of person who really likes to do this sort of work, I am not sure how often to repeat. I hope that I do one coat of Z2 every 2-4 weeks for a while until I get on 5 coats of Z2 and then put the polish on minimal maintenance to keep the car in good shape. |
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| octavian |
Mike, what color is your X, btw?
Besides the shine, what you will notice is the incredible smoothness of your paint compared to any carnauba-type wax. What this accomplishes is a substantial decrease in dust and stuff sticking to your X. What dust does still stick, is much more easily removed, via a CA duster, for example.
Further, bug doo is much easier to remove.....I know....since about 1,000,000 bugs' last view is my ugly mug through the windshield.;)
And, last but not least, you will notice that your Zaino will last much longer than any carauba-based wax, particularly if you Z6 after washings.
Shine, protection, dust and dirt repellancy and longevity. That's what you should expect. Keep Zaino-ing! :D |
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| mikel51 |
| I have a Mesa Beige. Yep, I have noticed that it is very smooth. I do hope that Zaino repels the dirt and dust. |
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| octavian |
mike, you won't eliminate it, but it is a HUGE improvement over 1) not waxing and 2) using a carnauba wax which to me seems to ATTRACT dust.
Happy Z-ing....:D |
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| Maik |
Well, after reading all the discussion here, I finally ordered Zaino and a stack of towels from the Fieldcrest/Cannon outlet, and both arrived today.
My plan is to start with a Dawn bath Friday evening and one coat of Z, then add two coats each on Saturday and Sunday. By Sunday night, my X should be on its way to sparkle heaven! |
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| paul123 |
quote:
Originally posted by Maik
Well, after reading all the discussion here, I finally ordered Zaino and a stack of towels from the Fieldcrest/Cannon outlet, and both arrived today.
My plan is to start with a Dawn bath Friday evening and one coat of Z, then add two coats each on Saturday and Sunday. By Sunday night, my X should be on its way to sparkle heaven!
Can't wait to hear your first post after the zaino. The stuff is amazing, I was shocked after my first time. It becomes very addicting. Good Luck!!!! Post Pic's!!!!! |
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| texrb |
I have 3 coats of Z5 & a Z6 after every wash since I bought the X last October & it's smooth as a baby's bottom & shines like crazy! I am getting ready to put 3 more coats of Z5 on it & will vouch that Zaino is the best stuff I have ever used. :)
For those that still wonder if Zaino is all that great - just give it a try & you'll never use another wax product.:D :D |
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| Maik |
Well, the results are partially in on my initial Zaino experience.
I did not use any claybar, went from two dawn washings and one Zaino shampoo washing directly to Z1. Followed up with a coat of Z5 and a coat of Z2, with Z6 after each. I must admit I was very skeptical, I have used Meguires for years with great results.
The results were truly stunning. Car shines like a mirror, and only two coats thus far. In the sunlight, I actually saw blue speckles in the black paint. My wife was amazed...(now I will have to do her car).
The stuff is truly idiot proof...I dont have the patience to wait as long as it probably needed, and I suspect I used to much product, and the results were great. Coat number 3 is drying in the garage right now and I will finish tommorrow.
Here is a picture of the back: |
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| paul123 |
quote:
Originally posted by Maik
In the sunlight, I actually saw blue speckles in the black paint.
I also have a black MDX and also see the blue speckles in the black paint in the sunlight. The product amazes me and the longer you leave it on the better it looks. I'm sure you know the old school of waxes you would be scared to leave on for to long. We live in a new age of technology and have to keep up with the times. |
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| misterjon |
Maik--
Lookin' good! If you're truly as impatient as you say, consider using the ZFX with your Z2 and Z5 -- 20 minutes drying time between coats. |
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