| msu79gt82 |
I call myself an amateur photographer in that I enjoy using a good quality SLR and seeing what I can do with it. I bought an Olympus OM-2n in 1982 and have several good Olympus lenses. Of course Olympus is out of the SLR business now.
I am at the point where I will need to spend some fairly serious money to repair, clean, refurbish light seals, etc to continue using it and I am reluctant to do so. Is it time to jump on the digital bandwagon? Up to very recently I have not been impressed with the resolution of digital cameras as compared to quality 35mm. That is of course rapidly changing with 5 and 6 mega-pixal cameras on the market.
Canon recently caught my eye with their new EOS D60, a 6.3 mega-pixel SLR. Now I think we are getting somewhere! But digital cameras are still expensive compared to 35mm. But where 35mm technology is very mature and stable, digital is like a computer improving as we speak! I do not want to buy a camera and have it made obsolete in a few months due to the latest version. Nikon in on the verge of releasing the D100, a 6.1 mega-pixel SLR.
Does my concern make sense. The old joke with computers is to buy one and do not look at them again for a long time and certainly do not check the price the next week! If you buy a good 35mm SLR you do not need to be concerned that the technology will be superceeded in a few short months. But I see that as a reality in the digital world.:confused: :confused: |
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| PolyTat |
Like you I was an SLR guy with my Canon EOS1 and a plethora of lens and acc. I got into the digital world and have made some very good comparisons between the two. But, the past couple years digital photography has really gotten me by storm and have resisted to go back.
I bought a Canon G1 a over a year ago and with 3.34 Megapixels at the highest resolution, I get astounding photo quality. I even had a picture blown up to 18x24 (matted) and the quality just blows me.
I have researched and hit the forums on http://www.megapixel.net/html/issueindex.html quite a bit and cannot really imagine why I would need a 5, 6 10 megapixel camera - ie. Nikon's 5 megapixel $4800 right now or in the next year or so, especially if it is amateur photography |
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| roadrunner |
Hey, a question I know something about - don't know beans about cars. Your concerns are not misplaced in that camera technology changes faster than lobster prices but that merry-go-round is not going to stop so the question is when do you jump in. The answer is - when a camera will meet your needs now and for the foreseeable future. Example - I have a Nikon D1 and I love it, love it, love it. It reawakened a love of photography in me like I haven't felt in 20 years. Click on the link in my signature if you want to see how much fun I've had with a D1 AND MDX (doesn't get much better).
Does that mean that the D1 is the latest greatest - NOPE - the D1x has come out and the D100 is on it's way with lots more resolution. That's OK - the D1 is still useful to me in that its 3 megapixel resolution is more than adequate for almost everything I do - and plan to do in the future. Most of the time I end up dropping resolution anyway to put pictures on the web and such. On the other hand I plan to be near the front of the line to get a D100 but I'll still keep and use the D1.
If it were me and I was getting ready to start out - I'd wait for the D100 - it should be a heck of a great camera for $2K. If you have Canon lenses - their cameras are great too - I've just been a Nikon man since I got my first Nikkormat back over thirty years ago.
The BEST source for information and a website I visit EVERY morning over coffee is Digital Camera Reviews
Meep Meep |
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| renov8r |
I used to take literally hundreds of rolls of film a year, with a collection of Canons ranging from A-1, F-1, F-3 to EOS. I scaled way back...
(playing more with DV lately, new daughter..)
Recently my sister REALLY REALLY wanted to get a digital camera.
Having done some things with CCDs and astophotography, I know that "megapixels" are only a part of the story. It is VITALLY important how the DSP (digital signal processors) manipulate the data.
Here's a good article that explains some of trade offs that happen (any reviews a pretty nice camera) http://www.mobilecomputing.com/showarchives.cgi?170
I suspect that we are several steps away from magazines reporting the techincal differences that differentiate one manufacturer's decisions from another. All CCDs must devote some of the the pixels to "non-imagine capture", such as stabilization. I can imagine that soon manufacturers will equip high-end cameras with much more sophisticated user controls so that one can choose the bit-depth, processing options & image correction.
If you can hold off, I think we should see a stabilization of technology around 6M pixel still cameras, followed by the "high-end" controls working their way across all manufactures, and finally a more stable price point -- comparable to what "high speed" (1/4000 ++) shutter 35mm camera experienced a decade ago... |
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| msu79gt82 |
Canon EOS D60 slr (6.3 mega-pixels) - $2199 Official
Nikon D100 slr (6.1 mega-pixels) ~ $2100 Unofficial |
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| msu79gt82 |
As I stated earlier I was an Olympus buff with several very nice lenses. But they are no longer in the SLR business.:(
Since I will have to start over I guess I get to pick my company. Minolta apparently is not going to go the SLR route with digital. That leaves Nikon or Canon as the most obvious choices. I am seriously considering the Nikon D100 or the Canon D60.
The Canons are hitting the streets now and the Nikons in May/June. |
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| nwaring |
| and I look forward to the responses. I am also a SLR guy. My first decent camera was a Pentax ME Super that is 20+ years old and is still around and working great. Except for auto shutter speed it is all manual. Before a trip to Belize in 99 (where they tested the MDX) I bought a Nikon N70 which is fully automatic and takes great pictures. You can run it manually but as age has taken away brain cells the automatic mode works for me. I am only now getting on the digital bandwagon. Actually these Internet forums forced me into it. Instant gratification actually is pretty neat. Recently I took 50 some pictures at my daughters volleyball tournament with my Sony DCR-TRV730 Digital8 Handycam using the digital picture to memory stick feature. Then I downloaded them and printed them out. The whole process (though not as easy as dropping a roll of 35mm off at Rite-Aid) isn’t bad and the quality is fairly good. But this is not the high-end digital equipment you are discussing but it gets the job done. I agree the technology will continually change and I’m still not sure about the concept of printing a picture with an ink jet printer.:confused: |
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| DaleB |
Like many of you I was an SLR buff for decades. I still have a well performing Canon A-1 (vintage 1982) with assorted lens, winder, and flash.
Six months ago I bought the non-SLR Sony DSC-85 digital, with 4.1 mp.
The results have been beyond my expectations. I have not devoted a whole lot of time to processing, except for sizing and some rather generic enhancements.
I do not have a printer that will approach the best standards esp. for large prints.
However, I have been using Sony's Imagestation who subcontracts to Ofoto and have received 8X10 prints that have been consistenty fine, in both color and resolution. And the cost is very low. I hope to take some good pictures as I drive my new X back from the 'desert' to San Jose, and post them. I am very open to comments and suggestions. It's this very board and my new interest
in the MDX that has kept me from pursuing my photographic interest more, well delayed it, anyway. |
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| DaleB |
BTW if you are really interested in the ultimate digital photography, wait a while.
6 mexapixel maybe the best today, but the latest technology will surpass the present technology by having each pixel with it's own integrated color processsing rather than a large color filter that acts on the entire sensor area.
Recent tests show it to rival the best of conventional film photograhpy. |
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| msu79gt82 |
| Check out the soon to be released Sigma SD9 digital slr with the new FOVEON X3 image sensor. Search for that camera on the web sites I mentioned earlier. |
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| DaleB |
That's it! Foveon! And they are only 8 miles from me....in the heart of Silly Con Valley.
By the way, they have several positions open if you are looking to relocate. |
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| texrb |
msu.......
I also am a amateur photo buff - with an 8 yr old minolta 700si that I still use after "upgrading from an older Canon AE-1 & Oympus (that someone stole!) I also own a cool little Yashica APS camera & a Kodak 3900 digital (3.1 mp).
I suggest you buy a relatively inexpensive digital camera - like the Kodak 3900 - to get a feel for how to use the digital camera before you jump into a $2k+ purchase. It's only $349, has great picture quality & like several others have posted - 3 megapixels is plenty for most applications. I also end up reducing the size of the pics mainly due to file size when emailing or posting to websites.
I eventually want to buy a digital SLR for the advantages of SLRs & digital - but don't want to spend $2k for that pleasure.
Good luck in your search for the perfect digital SLR !! |
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| golfski |
Also a former serious film photographer/developer/printer who's recently gone digital. I agree with RoadRunner that the dpreview's site is probably the best out there. You can find a lot of info on that site, including a preview of the Fovean sensor (which look's like a true leap in technology).
I got a G2 (my first digital), which is a good "pro-sumer" digital, I'm very, very happy with it. With a consumer - prosumer digital, adjustments have to be made in your shooting style, primarily due to the focus lag - but once you make the adjustment there's no looking back. All of my film equipment's gathering dust right now - digital's a lot of fun..... I may have to get a D100 just so my lenses won't go to waste! |
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| Warzau |
I have one thing to say
NIKON. I love their optics. My wife makes fun of me for collecting Nikons, the best thing,F mount. With the Nikon D100 coming I can still use all my lenses, ahh I love my Nikons. :) |
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| dmcconaghie |
I jumped in feet first about 9 months ago.
Had (and still have) a Minolta XGA with lenses, etc., which I dearly loved. Purchased the Olympus C-3000 3.3 Megapixel. Not 'state of the art now', but was relatively new at the time. Mid-range in price (I spent $800 on it) compared to the others out there.
Absolutely love it. Does take some getting used to, and I don't have the ability to change lenses, add filters, etc. at this point, but I'm still having lots of fun with it. Zoom is incredible. And it comes with a remote control, which has allowed me to take some very interesting pictures. And, as nwaring has stated, the instant gratification factor is nice. Can have fun with the photos, too...editing, adding text, etc.
The camera I purchased comes with it's own software for loading and editing. Getting the pics to the PC from the camera is a no brainer. After loading the software, plug in the USB cable (included), turn the camera on and you're off to the races. I also have the ability to manually override the automated settings and switch to manual mode if I choose, which was one of my major concerns with the digital cameras I had looked at previously.
Have a Lexmark color printer that I recently used to print out some of my pics on Kodak Picture Paper. Quality is close to some of those taken with the Minolta previously.
Good luck in your search and with your decision. I researched for about 8 months before finally jumping in the pool, and still found it a difficult decision. It's tough to narrow them down, but whatever decision you make, I'm sure you'll enjoy it! |
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| roadrunner |
Well it looks like we have a pretty enthusiastic bunch of digitalographers so I just started a new string in Gallery:I'll Show You Mine If You Show Me Yours . You show us your favorite MDX glamour scenic shot taken with a digital camera. Lets see what you got!:D
Meep Meep |
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| MGTD |
Well we have an old Canon A1 and a bunch of lenses. All non autofocus of course.
Just bought the bullet and ordered a Canon D60. Looks like it may take over a month to get it as the backlog is pretty deep.
Does anybody have any sort of comparison for pixels vs asa. IE how many megapels would you need to equal 25 asa film.
Another interesting note is that it appears that at least in the Canon's case, the magnification is 145% of normal film for a given lense due to the fact that the sensor is smaller than the 35mm frame size.
Chris |
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| BostonX |
I read somewhere that 6 megapixels will give an approximation of a 35mm film's resolution. At what film speed this is based on, I'm not sure. Probably 100 ASA.
I recently purchased the 5 megapixel Nikon CoolPix 5000 and it looks fantastic. 8X10 enlargements look no different from ones using traditional film. Also, I never made enlargements from 35mm film that were any bigger than 16X20.
I will post some pictures when I return from Asia. Can't wait to add some shots to the wonderful "Ill show you mine..." forum! |
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| msu79gt82 |
I heard that the focal lenght of the lenses for the D60 must be muliplied by 1.5. This is a good news bad news thing.
The good news is that a 200mm telephoto lense becomes a 300 with NO loss of speed or distortion.
The bad news is that it makes super wide angle difficult; a 17mm lense is actually a 26. To address that problem Canon has just introduced a 16-35 zoom. |
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| msu79gt82 |
The reason I have not yet posted photos of MY "tootsie roll" is that I do not have a digital camera.
One of these days:rolleyes: Mahogany Rules Baby!!:cool: |
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| msu79gt82 |
quote:
Originally posted by MGTD
... Just bought the bullet and ordered a Canon D60. Looks like it may take over a month to get it as the backlog is pretty deep. Chris
I have a son graduating from High School May 25th. How long did they say your back order was. If you do not mind me asking, who did you order from and how much was it?
In addition to graduation at the end of May we have a big family trip planned for mid-June. Because of this I was leaning toward Canon since I know the Nikn D100 will not be out that soon. If I can't get the Canon before then, I will be in a position to be very choosy and perhaps wait on prices to drop. |
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| MGTD |
quote:
Originally posted by msu79gt82
I have a son graduating from High School May 25th. How long did they say your back order was. If you do not mind me asking, who did you order from and how much was it?
In addition to graduation at the end of May we have a big family trip planned for mid-June. Because of this I was leaning toward Canon since I know the Nikn D100 will not be out that soon. If I can't get the Canon before then, I will be in a position to be very choosy and perhaps wait on prices to drop.
I ordered mine from State Street because they had the best overall price (body, lens, battery, case, ...) UMMV depending on taxes and shipping for sites.
They could not quote me a date (as well as others) because Canon seems to be being tight lipped on supply and delivery. They were hoping for May. Some said it would be 3 - 5 months. find out what there back log is if they will tell you. At some places I would have been #400+.
In some cases you may find it at a local dealer faster. If it wasn't for the price I think I could have snagged one locally in less than 30 days. In fact I just missed getting one in 10 days. Everybody is selling the body kit for the same price.
Good luck.
Chris |
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| msu79gt82 |
Yea, I was under the impression that all sales will be at list price for a while (e.g. MDX at MSRP:cool: )
As I said I would llike to have a new digital camera (SLR) by May 25th and certainly by June 14th. If I can't get one by then it will be months before I NEED one. If I end up waiting months then I will do a lot of research between the Canon D60 and Nikon D100; I am currently leaning toward Canon (Nikon lovers respond;) ).
I do not mind having a decent point-and-shoot in addition to an SLR. One option if the SLR is unavailable in my time "deadlline" is to join the digital bandwagon with a pocketable camera. I do want the SLR and the P&S to be Image Card and Software compatible so I will probably go with the same brands. Since I am considering a Canon SLR, I am looking at the new PowerShot S40. |
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| roadrunner |
Although I have always preferred Nikons and still do, I have no reason to think you will not be happy with the Canon. My preference is based on 30 years of professional experience - in that time Nikon has always been the 1st choice among professionals but the camera in second place has changed on a regular basis - including makes that no longer exist - Beseler for one. I think it is an impressive performance to stay on top year in and year out for three decades. I have also used Nikons in some pretty demanding environments - in the Space Shuttle cargo bay for one -GeoCam Payload and strapped to the outside of a C-141 at 38,000 ft (-70 degrees in a near vacuum) and they have NEVER let me down. )Kuiper Airborne Observatory
I wouldn't worry too much about compatibility. Almost all of the top cameras now use Compact Flash and fewer and fewer use proprietary file formats. Most of us find it far easier to download off a Compact Flash Card Reader without plugging in the camera and using the camera software - especially where there are multiple cameras. When you use the reader the image files just show up on your computer like a hard disk - making the camera make and model transparent.
I'd pick the best of each. For example If I were getting a P&S camera now, I would most likely go with the Canon G2 and for a professional model the Nikon D1X (now) or D100 (later |
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| msu79gt82 |
| That's the kind of thoughts and advice I am looking for. |
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| MGTD |
quote:
Originally posted by roadrunner
I'd pick the best of each. For example If I were getting a P&S camera now, I would most likely go with the Canon G2 and for a professional model the Nikon D1X (now) or D100 (later
Now just to be controversial I would go the other way. After having used Canons for years I also feel they are great cameras and seem to pop back and forth with the Nikons on quality.
If I was going for a point and shoot right now it would not be with the Canon G2( which seems to have case cracking problems) but with the Nikon Coolpix 5000. YMMV.
Chris |
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| golfski |
quote:
Originally posted by MGTD
Now just to be controversial I would go the other way. After having used Canons for years I also feel they are great cameras and seem to pop back and forth with the Nikons on quality.
If I was going for a point and shoot right now it would not be with the Canon G2( which seems to have case cracking problems) but with the Nikon Coolpix 5000. YMMV.
Chris
Yes, there was a definite production problem with the G2's - cracks widely reported in the cases - so many that Canon has actually made an official response. I'm lucky - no cracks so far. I suspect it was a particular production run, with a bad supply of plastic cases (a plastic case on a camera......ugh!). Takes really good pictures though, and that's the main thing.
The Coolpix 5000 is a good camera too. Personally, I like the feel of the CP5000 - really fits my hands nicely - seems more rugged than my G2, but that's probably my Nikon SLR background prejudicing my view. But it does have its share of faults too. You're right, it really is a YMMV thing - every photographer's different, so choosing which features are important is a very personal thing. |
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| msu79gt82 |
My dream is still an SLR; probably a Canon D60 or Nikon D100 ( I probably can't go wrong with either).
Regarding a Point & Shoot I am really looking at pocketability. I really like the Canon digital elphs, but I think 2.1 mega-pixels is too little by today's standards. That is why I am looking at the S40, almost as small, with 4 mega-pixels. |
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| Maik |
I thought the attached article comparing several digital cameras might be interesting. I own the Sony cybershot (one previous model year) and love it. It is easy to use, basically point and shoot, and the results are quite superb.
www.zdnet.com/products/stories/revi...2847263,00.html
Maik |
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| msu79gt82 |
| ... links. There is a lot of info out there; we appreciate help in finding it. |
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| roadrunner |
I have always found ZDNet a good source of reviews on computer software and hardware, but I think they become less reliable the further they get from "home". I had read the review above and although I don't necessarily disagree with the result ( the Sony is a nice consumer camera) I think the reviews in general were somewhat superficial and definitely NOT written by a real expert on digital imaging. It is a complaint I also have with Consumer Reports, although they certainly are a terrific resource.
I doubt that a digital photography publication would give the TOP score to a camera using memory sticks as they are much more poorly supported and limited compared to Compact Flash. Although I love and own much Sony equipment (only TVs I ever buy), Sony has a bad habit of trying to FORCE their standards on the entire industry. Being a 800 lb. gorilla they sometimes succeed - but more often fail -REMEMBER BETAMAX !
Before making any final decision I would be sure to also read the reviews at a more specialized site. I especially recommend Digital Photography Review where you will find a much more in-depth evaluation.
Sorry to rant on - it's just that I spend a very significant part of my professional life advising people and institutions on digital imaging equipment - and a less enjoyable hunk of time commiserating with the many folks who invest in expensive equipment without doing their homework and now regret their hasty choices.
Meep Meep |
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| msu79gt82 |
... are you familiar with Digital Camera Views ( www.dcviews.com )? This is usually where I go first; it is a site with links to virtually all other digital photography sites.
I agree that www.dpreview.com is excellent. |
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| roadrunner |
Right On msu79gt82, you have hit almost all of my favorites and they are all sites I frequent. I mentioned Digital Photography Review only because it's my personal favorite and the first site I visit each day over my morning coffee. Fortunately, almost all of these sites do a good job linking to the others since no one site could possibly review every camera that comes out. I can sympathize - I find it takes me a lot of reading just to stay reasonably current. If you have a reputation as a digital camera "expert" people seem to think that you personally own and have extensive experience on every camera ever made - past, present or future. Since in fact I have personally owned a total of seven cameras and have seen MAYBE 20% of the others - being able to point people to these great sites is better than having to constantly say I Dunno
Meep Meep |
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| golfski |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by roadrunner
[B]............ I have also used Nikons in some pretty demanding environments - in the Space Shuttle cargo bay for one -GeoCam Payload and strapped to the outside of a C-141 at 38,000 ft (-70 degrees in a near vacuum) and they have NEVER let me down. )Kuiper Airborne Observatory ...........
QUOTE]
Just had some time to visit these links - pretty amazing stuff! ....
And I thought falling while skiing with my Nikon was tough on the camera! ;-)
RR - do you have any insights on the advanced digital on the Hubble? I know it's a 16M CCD image - the environment must have required a lot of engineering to keep the sensor working! I've alway's wondered if they used any "off the shelf" parts for the Hubble camera - like a Hasselblad body and digital back or something like that... whatever they're using, the images coming back are mind boggling! |
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| MGTD |
quote:
Originally posted by msu79gt82
I have a son graduating from High School May 25th. How long did they say your back order was. If you do not mind me asking, who did you order from and how much was it?
In addition to graduation at the end of May we have a big family trip planned for mid-June. Because of this I was leaning toward Canon since I know the Nikn D100 will not be out that soon. If I can't get the Canon before then, I will be in a position to be very choosy and perhaps wait on prices to drop.
A local retailer called me a few days ago and said they got two in and since I put my name down two monts ago the other was mine if I wanted it. Since everyone is selling them for the same price it was a no brainer (except I had to pay Ca sales tax).
Now I am waiting for the flash memory, lense and flash before I can see whati it is all about.
I will say that reading the manual means that you can get lost in all the settings and options. I would hate to be tested on it.;) |
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| msu79gt82 |
... was posted today on www.dpreview.com
Its mostly a features and specifications update using a pre-production model, final performance reviews await a production version test.
The Nikon D100 is priced $200 less than the Canon D60 and will lag the Canon by at least a couple of months until release. |
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| msu79gt82 |
| What do you pros and very-serious amateurs think about the soon to be released Contax N Digital? |
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| roadrunner |
At a predicted price of $6,999 - Dead On Arrival!!
When comparable cameras by manufacturers with a better track record and comparable features are going for 1/3 that - I would anticipate that this will have all of the market impact of the Leicaflex SLR of distant memory. It will sell to a niche market of price-is-no-object fanatics that only buy cameras with"German" names. The fact that the Leicaflex was a second rate Japanese companies design, assembled in Singapore with Canadian lenses not withstanding ... same here. The only justification for this costing three times the price of a Nikon or a Canon is a very questionable pedigree.
Meep Meep
PS- And to prove that I am not just a Kraut-hater- I would point out that I am sitting in my lab surrounded by Zeiss microscopes |
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| msu79gt82 |
| I will keep my options limited to the Canon D60 and Nikon D100. |
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| MGTD |
Well finally got all the parts put together:
Canon EOS D60 with 256 mb flash
Speedlite 550
Canon 28-135 AF Image Stabilizing lens
couple of batteries
Tried a few picks over the weekend. Awesome camera. The manual is more complex than an airplane. Thank God for the more than 6 auto modes.
Quality is really up there. The best part is you can shoot all day long and not feel guilty about film and processing costs, nor worry about bum pictures, immediate results and eco friendly to boot.
Chris |
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| roadrunner |
I TRUST you will be pointing your new camera in the general direction of your X in the near future and you will be sharing them with us........RIGHT!:D
Seriously, congrats, and welcome to the incredible world of digital SLR photography.
Meep Meep |
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| roadrunner |
'What do you pros and very-serious amateurs think about the soon to be released Contax N Digital?"
I said that the overpriced Contax N would be dead on arrival - but I stand corrected - they shouldn't even bother putting this one in the ambulance.
Digital Photography Review just posted Contax N sample images and they are pretty disappointing. The report stated "are not as sharp or detailed as images from the Canon EOS-D60, Nikon D100 or Nikon D1x".
Hey, I may not have much of a head for business but it occurs to me if you want to sell your product for 3X the price of the competition, then your images should be at least as good. :rolleyes:
Meep Meep |
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| msu79gt82 |
... still in the hunt. Soon I hope, vacation appoaches - but if I can't get what I want I will wait.
roadrunner - did you see www.dpreview.com this morning? Apparently the first posted photos from the Contax N Digital were a disappontment. |
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| roadrunner |
quote:
Originally posted by msu79gt82
.roadrunner - did you see www.dpreview.com this morning? Apparently the first posted photos from the Contax N Digital were a disappontment.
Oh yea - look one posting back - I downloaded one of the images and frankly I can't believe it could be THAT bad!!! My daughter's $275 Kodak P&S can equal that image.
Meep Meep |
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| golfski |
quote:
Originally posted by roadrunner
Oh yea - look one posting back - I downloaded one of the images and frankly I can't believe it could be THAT bad!!! My daughter's $275 Kodak P&S can equal that image.
Meep Meep
Kyocera's pulled the images. This camera's been delayed for so long - look's like it's still got some problems.... |
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| roadrunner |
On the brighter side of the news, following the debacle of the Contax N samples, today Digital Photography Review posted sample images from the soon to be released Nikon D100. Much Better!! I can hardly wait.
Meep Meep |
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| roadrunner |
If the pricing is right, say < $1K, I think it might be an excellent alternative for someone that didn't already have a lot of SLR lenses, accessories and/or experience. In fact, it is a SLR albeit an electronic one. A lot would depend on how good the electronic viewfinder is. That looks like a pretty good all purpose lens although you would probably want the wide-angle adapter to get wider than 35mm.
It looks like Nikon intends to capture the lion's share of the whole range of digital cameras and I think they just may. Their current line-up is pretty dang impressive and they are building on a strong base of previous models like the D1 series. :2:
Meep Meep |
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| msu79gt82 |
When I started this thread I lamented Olympus exiting the SLR business. My collection of lenses is more or less useless now:(
Therefore I have to start over in the SLR business and am eying the Canon D60 as well as the Nikon D100. However at ~$2200 body only and the necessity of buying lenses makes cost a major concern (e.g. Canon's new EF 16-35mm f/2.8L USM is ~ $1500).
Second my wife never has been an SLR fan so I also see a point-and-shoot in the future. Perhaps it is ignorance (lack of knowlege/experience :rolleyes: ) on my part, but I want to stay with the same brand. For instance if I go with Canon D60 as the SLR then perhaps something like the Canon S40 for the wife.
Now I see the something like the Nikon 5700 and Nikon's SLR as a distinct possibility. Timing is an issue here because if I do not do something before ~ June 10th then I can (and may very well) wait until October/November. Rumor has it that Canon will release a professional 9 megapixel camera in the fall. |
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| MGTD |
quote:
Originally posted by msu79gt82
When I started this thread I lamented Olympus exiting the SLR business. My collection of lenses is more or less useless now:(
Second my wife never has been an SLR fan so I also see a point-and-shoot in the future. Perhaps it is ignorance (lack of knowlege/experience :rolleyes: ) on my part, but I want to stay with the same brand. For instance if I go with Canon D60 as the SLR then perhaps something like the Canon S40 for the wife.
Get the D60 if you can afford it. We went with the 28-135 IMS lense. If you use any of the ~6 auto modes she will not have a problem with the slr. Just pick the mode, point and shoot. Nothing to set or focus.
Chris |
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| msu79gt82 |
www.dpreview.com had a post dated Friday, 31 May 2002 regarding Kodak's new 5 mp 4/3 (full frame) CCD. Of interest to me is that apparently Kodak and Olympus announced a joint-venture to develop a new D-SLR.
I guess what intrigues me the most is my old Olympus lenses; would they (could they?) be compatible with this new D-SLR?
However it seems to me that Kodak/Olympus is a little late to the party, especially at only 5 mp.
I had a self imposed deadline of making a decision by June 12 due to vacation the following week. If I can't have a new camera that week I do not see a pressing need for a while after that. Since the Canon D60 is backordered and Nikon's D100 is still weeks away I more than likely will wait a while and pit the two against each other when I have the time to hold and use each one. |
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| roadrunner |
I have had some experience with Kodak digital cameras having owned a DCS420 long before the Nikon D1 was available. Of course I have NO inside information on the new partnership with Olympus and its offspring but here are a few general observations about how Kodak approaches digital cameras.
Generally speaking Kodak cameras have tended to be more expensive than the competition and a little behind in innovation. Up to now their cameras have tended to be very bulky because Kodak has always opted for a PC card instead of a compact flash. DON'T go there - besides being bulky and expensive, my experience with the PC card hard disk is that they are very fragile - I had three fail without being dropped or otherwise abused.
Hopefully Kodak will change these things but so far they have not.
Meep Meep |
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| MGTD |
quote:
Originally posted by roadrunner
I have had some experience with Kodak digital cameras having owned a DCS420 long before the Nikon D1 was available. Of course I have NO inside information on the new partnership with Olympus and its offspring but here are a few general observations about how Kodak approaches digital cameras.
Generally speaking Kodak cameras have tended to be more expensive than the competition and a little behind in innovation. Up to now their cameras have tended to be very bulky because Kodak has always opted for a PC card instead of a compact flash. DON'T go there - besides being bulky and expensive, my experience with the PC card hard disk is that they are very fragile - I had three fail without being dropped or otherwise abused.
Hopefully Kodak will change these things but so far they have not.
Meep Meep
Besides that for about $38 at FRYs you can get a PCMCIA cradle for your flash card and use it in your notebook. I also added a PCMCIA card reader to my new Dell tower too.
Chris |
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| rliggayu |
| I have a Kodak DX3900 3.1megapixel and it uses a compact flash not a PC Card. |
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| roadrunner |
MGTD - You are absolutely correct, and given the problems with the PC card hard disks, it is what I would recommend BUT unfortunately you are still stuck with all that extra bulk of the camera being designed to accept the much larger PCMCIA cards. I found the Kodak camera much more awkward and less well balanced than the Nikon D1 which is very similar to a film camera in size.
rliggayu - My comments were directed at the Kodak professional SLR digital cameras. Fortunately Kodak has had the good sense in their pro-sumer cameras to use the CF - which is why I have gotten two for my daughter and she loves them.
Meep Meep |
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| msu79gt82 |
... is in stock and selling for $6999 body only:confused:
See the link at www.imaging-resource.com
Amazing to think $7000 when the Canon D60 is currently selling for $2199 and the Nikon D100 will be similarly priced.
By the way the D100 is supposed to begin shipping June 28th (see same link). |
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| MGTD |
Ok. One thing I have got to figure out is how to temp store all these pictures. With the D60 6 mpel images at max res/size they are 2.5 mb each. My 256 mb flash card can hold about 100. I have a Micro Drive at 350 mb also.
Until I can convince my wife to back off on the image sizes (smaller images are around 800 kb) I am going to be pressed for picture capacity on vacations. The MD takes a lot of power too.
I don't want to take a notebook computer with us to do the transfers either.
:confused: :confused:
Chris |
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| roadrunner |
I would be careful about reducing image size because it's always the one you reduce that you end up wanting to make a big print of. Personally, I always take a Notebook computer with me that not only lets me download the images each night, but to select, edit and caption while my memory is still fresh. Usually I will even generate the webpages as I go so that I'm not faced with a monster job at the end of your trip.
Alternately, several manufacturers like Iomega and Sima have made portable devices with a built-in hard disks and a CF slot. Although smaller that a notebook, they tended to be expensive (+/- $300) and offered essentially just blind storage. They don't seem to be currently in production anymore so I guess they weren't too popular but they should be available on EBay. Maybe someone else knows a current device but I'm not familiar with any myself.
Meep Meep |
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| MGTD |
Roadrunner: I think I have way to deal with it. My daughter has an old cast off Notebook that only works on AC power and if it gets stolen so what. That will be my backup device as it has PCMCIA reader and I will just dump the images to it nightly.
This way she can capture images in full size. At least she is not taking them in RAW mode at 18 mb each. ;)
Chris |
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| MGTD |
:( There is one thing I do not like about the D60. Not sure if Nikon will have this problem but I would think again if I knew about it.
The problem is that the CCD or whatever it is, is about 30% smaller than 35 mm film. The net result is that images are 1.6x as big or put another way a 28mm is really a 45 mm lens. So I have no wide angle.
Canon makes a super wide zoom 16-35mm but the cheapest net price is around $1400. That still is only a 24mm after the "enhancement". The good news is that I don't need a great lens at the edges as the camera discards that but there are really no options that I am aware of at this time.
So say goodbye to wide angle.
Chris |
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| msu79gt82 |
... but hello to telephoto:cool:
The Nikon D100 has a 1:5 multiplier; for what it is worth the new Contax N Digital has the same apsect ratio as 35mm. |
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| MDXNole |
Roadrunner has touch on something that I have begun to research. I am currently at the point were I was debating buying more compact flash or purchasing a portable storage device.
I have found two manufactures of portable storage devices. JOBO's Nixvue and Minds at Work's Mindstor. Both appear to be rechargeable battery powered hard drives with the ability to directly download from your compact flash card.
I was curious if anyone has any experience with either of these products?:8: |
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| kflint |
I have Nixvue's Digital Album. It is a great product. It is small and very portable, and contains a 20 gig hard drive. I use it whenever I am traveling and don't want to take a laptop computer (such as when hiking or on a boat).
The Digital Album has been superseded by Nixvue's Vista, which has a small lcd screen on which you can preview photos. Nixvue's web site is
http://www.nixvue.com/
Nixvue's products are distributed in the U.S. by Jobo. Jobo's web site is http://www.jobodigital.com/
You can find reviews of these and similar products at a number of digital photography review sites, including:
Digital Photography Review
Steve's Digicams
Imaging Resource
Good luck with your search. By the way, I have (and love) a Canon D30, and am not-so-patiently waiting for the delivery of a D60. |
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| msu79gt82 |
Delkin eFilm PicturePAD announced on www.dpreview.com today.
Although it appears to be another version of the Nixvue Vista. |
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| A2MDXer |
| Hey guys, great discussion. I am a less sophisticated photographer than many of you but plan on getting another digi cam before year end (probably "pro-sumer"). I currently have Sony DSC-p50 (2.1 mp), which is simple point and shoot. I like it quite a bit (easy to carry and use) but want more resolution and it doesn't do a great job in low light conditions. I have targeted the Canon G2 and Coolpix 5000 but now Sony has released the DSC-P9, which is 4mp and ultra-small (also only $599). Also, I am familiar with the Sony menus and memory sticks. Anyone have experience with the P9? The small size appeals to me b/c I like to throw it on my belt or in a pocket and find that I use the camera more often than larger, more professional cameras (we still have an A-1 with many lenses). I don't want anything bigger than the G2. |
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| MDXNole |
| I can't speak to the Sony P9, but if you do settle for the G2, I can say that I have been very satisfied with mine. The quality of the pictures have been excellent. Also I have been very please with the battery life, except that I wish it had a more detailed battery meter. |
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| roadrunner |
I LOVE Nikon digital cameras (have a D1 and plan on a D100) BUT I do not think the 5000 was their finest hour. If you read the reviews I think you will find what I mean.
On the other hand I had a G2 for a few weeks to evaluate for my department and I found it very competent, easy to use and capable of producing spectacular images.
Meep Meep |
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| A2MDXer |
Thanks for the advice and the links to reviews. I think I am leaning to 4 models:
subcompact - either Canon PS S40 or Sony DSC-P9 (both 4mp)
prosumer - either Canon G2 or Sony DSC-S85
Right now I think the G2 is the early leader.
Of course, by the time I write this, all 4 are probably obsolete!:D |
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| roadrunner |
quote:
Originally posted by A2MDXer Of course, by the time I write this, all 4 are probably obsolete!:D
Fear that their expensive toy today will be obsolete junk tomorrow is the question I deal with almost more than any other.
Yes - the digital camera field, like other electronics, moves incredibly fast and no model will stay current forever.
The best rule is - buy only the camera that is adequate for what you need. It doesn't matter that newer, sexier cameras will come out IF you bought one that does the job for you.
Example: I have a Nikon D1 - 2.6 megapixel - modest by today's standards since the D1X and soon the D100 have come along. BUT it still does a knock-your-socks-off image at 5x7/8x10 which is as large as I need 99.8% of the time. And it will still do a great job next year and the next.
Will I get a D100 - Probably- six megapixels will give me more cropping freedom and the luxury of the occasion 11x14.
The point is, I waited until there was a camera that would do what I do and do it well - then it never really will be obsolete.The way to end up unhappy is to buy a camera that is ALMOST good enough or ALMOST fast enough or ALMOST sharp enough. Wait until it is - not almost is.
Meep Meep |
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| msu79gt82 |
roadrunner said: "The way to end up unhappy is to buy a camera that is ALMOST good enough or ALMOST fast enough or ALMOST sharp enough. Wait until it is - not almost is."
Great advice thanks. Now that summer vacation has passed w/o a camera :( , I have time to really compare Canon's D60 to Nikon's D100 without feeling rushed to make a decision:cool: |
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| A2MDXer |
| Agreed. My comment was "tongue-in-cheek" but your advice is good. The problem is I love new technology and even if the current product meets my needs, I end up longing for the newest and latest! It's a much larger problem with computers where incremental improvements are made constantly. It's a habit I am trying to break - just give me time. :p |
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