| hhwc |
Just heard that our fearless leaders in CA changed the number on the 'Tax the SUV' bill and are presently trying to ram it through under secrecy. We defeated the first one... What does it do you may ask? Put as much as a $2000 tax on top of SUV prices!
First the Pledge, now your SUVs!
I'm tired of the lunatic Dem/libs/crazy enviros in this state! :mad: |
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| TheWorm |
We all know the best way out of a recession is to raise taxes and associated fees (e.g. vehicle registration). :rolleyes:
Sometimes you just gotta wonder whether Davis and his cronies know the November election is a lost cause, so they'll just ram it all down our throats between now and then.
What's the assembly/senate bill number? Got a link handy? |
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| hhwc |
I just heard it on the radio. They mentioned the bill number but I can't recall what it was.
I'm sure we'll be hearing a lot more about it in the next few weeks when the auto dealers get a wind of what is going on....
If this passes, I hope the entire state gets angry enough to toss all of them out! |
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| DaleB |
| Of course the Sierra Club wouldn't have anything to do with this....:rolleyes: |
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| paulp |
quote:
Originally posted by TheWorm
We all know the best way out of a recession is to raise taxes and associated fees (e.g. vehicle registration). :rolleyes:
Sometimes you just gotta wonder whether Davis and his cronies know the November election is a lost cause, so they'll just ram it all down our throats between now and then.
What's the assembly/senate bill number? Got a link handy?
This is the link: http://www.wedrive.org
The bill is AB 1493
There is a toll free number to call the so call "Law Makers." Let's fight for our rights!! |
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| vicpai |
quote:
Originally posted by hhwc
I'm tired of the lunatic Dem/libs/crazy enviros in this state! :mad:
Well, I'm sick and tired of them too!!......I'd like to tell the Dems/Libs/Davis.....to "you know what", before they completely sell the country to foreigners for greed......but if you think CA will ever have a cons/rep govt. you can kiss your hopes goodbye......we're being overrun here in CA, and I think the crazies are here to stay
Another case in point is the United States versus Mexico Soccer match.....there were heaps of so-called "American Citizens" - and I put that in quotes you know why with Mexican flags galore!!! :rolleyes: ..........I, myself, am born of immigrant parents, but just because my Dad is from India and my mom from Spain doesn't mean I go dancing around supporting Spain in the match :mad:
Where's the friggin Patriotism???......Love of Country?? :mad: |
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| DaleB |
It's the same mentality that has us still pumping MTBE in our gas tanks!
And MTBE IS bad for the environment!
But instead of getting rid of it, because of this extreme obsession with oxygenated fuels, they shut down gas stations where tanks show some seepage of MTBE into the water table.
And all the results are not in yet what it does when you breath it or make skin contact.
IDIOTS! They use old science to make decisions, but refuse to overturn decisions based on evidence of modern science. |
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| hhwc |
Maybe they (libs/Dems/enviros) will get the message when there is a mass exodus out of this state.
As much as I love the weather, the political climate stinks! Furthermore, industry has been leaving this state in droves so the job market may start drying up too...
Getting back on thread, I actually hope Davis signs the bill. Let's see what happens when the politicos attack one of Californian's most prized possessions....OUR CARS! ;) |
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| fvince |
We don't need or want any of this foolishness to migrate east. No reason to give our brand of I-want-to-run-your-life-for-you-because-you're-too-stupid-to-do-it-for-yourself liberals any more crazy ideas.
So, please nip this in the bud for the sake of the rest of the country. |
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| hhwc |
Democrats Against Democracy
By Larry Weitzman 07/03/2002
The California Legislature, controlled by Democrats, just pulled a stunt that makes the corporate bigwigs of Enron, WorldCom and Global Crossing look like pikers.
Last Friday, Democrats in the legislature hijacked an innocuous piece of legislation entitled Assembly Bill 1493. They employed an assemblyman's trick -- called a "gut and amend" -- and removed some of the existing language of AB 1493 and replaced it with the language of another bill: AB 1058.
Now, AB 1058 was the measure designed to limit CO2 emissions from cars and trucks. The bill's supporters believe that CO2 emissions lead to global warming, even though such worries are not supported by the available science.
Why did Democrats pull this legislative switch? Because up until last Friday, AB 1058 was a notoriously unpopular bill that was stalled dead in its tracks in the Assembly. After a spirited and public debate, Californians had let their representatives know that they didn't want it. Simply put, they didn't like the economics or the politics of the bill. It would severely restrict vehicle choice (by effectively banning SUVs and trucks in California), compromise vehicle safety, impose higher taxes on California residents, and subject Californians to regulations from an unelected bureaucracy, the California Air Resources Board.
But clever Democrats would not be deterred by the will of California voters. They sidestepped the public by effectively giving AB 1058 a new name (AB 1493). They then rushed it through the legislature in two business days. Here's how it worked:
After Friday's "gut and amend," the bill was sent to the Senate (upper chamber) where it passed in a matter of minutes without any discussion or debate (the Senate was distracted by the big topic of controversy at that time - California's budget with its 24 billion dollar deficit). The bill then came back to the Assembly (lower chamber) on Monday morning where it was referred to the Transportation Committee. It was quickly passed out of committee and then brought to the Assembly floor under a procedure called a WORF: without reference to file. A WORF allows a bill to be brought to the floor without public notice that it will be heard. The bill passed by one vote and is now heading to Gov. Gray Davis' desk.
'Sneaky, Underhanded'
"It's interesting how the Democrats talk of honor and the integrity of the House, and then they run through this bill very fast," said State Assemblyman Tim Leslie. "Why rush? We didn't even hold a proper hearing on it. It wasn't in the open; it was in a closed room that was inaccessible to the general public. I'll tell you why they did it this way: It was so the public wouldn't have a chance to make their views known. This was sneaky, underhanded, and not the way we should conduct business in the state." Leslie's office received at least 121 angry email on the evening of July 1st when his constituents learned of the legislature's machinations.
So what's the upshot of the bill? Well, its very existence gives Governor Davis leverage to shake down auto companies (who were opposed to this bill) for millions of dollars in campaign contributions. If he gets reelected, it further enhances his authority in the state as he will select the bureaucracy that will create the regulations to implement the bill.
But Davis can still veto this bill. In doing so he can undercut his challenger, Republican gubernatorial candidate Bill Simon, by claiming he saved the minivan and Ford Explorer for all of California's soccer moms. In doing so, he could go a long way to effectively neutralizing a key difference between the candidates, namely, their approach to regulatory questions and the environment (Simon had already come out against AB 1058 since it would limit consumer choice, raise taxes, and increase the cost of automobiles)
This bill now before Gov. Davis is an affront to the democratic process and the spirit of open and vigorous debate. While this legislative chicanery may be insulting to California voters, it is useful in for its illuminating qualities. Environmental extremists will simply not be deterred by democratic processes and care little about the wants, needs, and interests of average voters. It will be interesting to see whose side Gov. Davis takes as he now considers this bill. |
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| MDXLuvr |
I just don't understand why people live in Ca. How the heck do u you guys put up such ridiculous laws, taxes, and real estate prices?
Like Fvince states, nip it in the BUTT! Go Rambo on them.:D These crazy liberals have already destroyed the peace and beauty of Portland, Seattle and AUSTIN(That's God Country to me).
I was thinking of moving to Austin 6 months ago, but all these techies from california are jacking up real estate prices in Austin to california levels.:mad: :3: :3: |
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| mogur |
| Unfortunately, those who are spreading the negative diabtribe about this bill are dead wrong in their "arguments". It does not add any taxes, does not mandate any type of vehicle elimination (SUV or otherwise), etc. If you want to know what it DOES do, simply read the text of the bill. I did, and I now support it. Don't believe something simply because you hear or see an ad, or read it in a newsgroup! |
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| DaleB |
Would you have a link to the actual text of AB1493?
I would be interested. From analysis I have read it revises present vehicle emission standard to be in line with the latest scientific data on Global Warming.
And in fact makes no distinction to what type or model of vehicles California consumers can buy or drive.
SUVs like the MDX are already surpassing many passenger vehicles in meeting present standards . Those are my words.
The legitimate objectors would be those who do not agree with the latest evidence of global warming. Why it has been a political football is because many things simply are, especially in California.
Political resistance to the Bill, contradicts the present White House position, which recently has acknowledged that there is sufficient data to warrant further studies into Global Warming.
The politicians in Sacramento are some of the most polarized groups you will find anywhere. It is this very lack of moderation and ability to work together that has put this State in the state it is in. If a republican brings up a bill it is machined gun by the democrats, and the same happens the other way around.
I thank the supreme power whatever you believe that may be, we did not suffer the way New York did on that fateful day. But I regret that due to a false sense of security, nothing has knocked any common sense into our representatives on this coast who live to make anything a political agenda, rather than what's right for the citizens. The end result is a lot of babies being thrown out with the bath water. |
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| DaleB |
One more thing, don't fool yourself, there are just as many conservatives as liberals making money off the high housing costs.
So both groups are okay with making money, they don't see that as political.
As long as they can get people to buy them they will sell them for ridiculous prices. And if you can't afford it, well there is always high rents as an option.
As long as the quality of life of the individual citizen has the lowest priority, things will not change.
When the demos controlled the house floor in Sacramento some of the most ridiculous bills got passed. How could they get pass the republican governor at the time, you ask?
Because whatever will line the pockets of both party leaders has a chance of passing.
The opposite sides of the same coin.
Sorry, I know it's always easier to just blame one group.
I probably should apologize for getting up on a soap box, especially on a day like this when we can all be grateful we live where we are and share opinions, and have intellectual as well as fun discussions. I hope you all are enjoying a fun 4th with your family and friends!!. |
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| TheWorm |
Mogur is correct. The variety of articles (including a number of news reports) were primarily "what ifs" with a fair amount of supposition thrown in. It's not as specific or draconian as these accounts made it sound. However, it could be I suppose, since the bill itself is somewhat subjective and nonspecific -- it's your typical "further study and regulation needed" bill. Bottom line, tho, is that it was the usual "scare tactics" approach to opposing the bill.
Here is the link to the actual text:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/bill/...1_enrolled.html
Dale - we had a good 4th...thanks in part to pre-screening guests to make sure they were fiscal conservatives; one hardcore demo did sneak through, but we taxed him on arrival and departure :D |
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| hhwc |
That is exactly what is wrong with this bill. It is non-specific and vague. It opens the door to regulation without specifics.
If it passes, the California Air Resources Board gets to set criteria that automakers must meet. Of course they aren't going to mention specific vehicles or types of vehicles, the opposition would eat them alive if they did that. But by setting the emissions standards, it is de-facto regulation of vehicle choices.
Or the other option (and I'm sure it is going to be offered), a penalty/fee/tax (whatever you want to call it) will be assessed if the vehicle exceeds the set emissions standards. So they can say they didn't limit choices and at the same time line their pockets. It's for the enviroment you know... (sarcasm)
Some examples of other upcoming lunacy:
-Doubling to tripling of vehicle license fees.
-Fast food and soda tax (as far as I know it is dead for now...) Why? Because it is unhealthy!
-5 cent tax per bullet...(taxing away the 2nd amendment?) Most might not care about this, but you should....
-Making the word 'oriental' illegal. (Already law in Washington state, soon to be introduced in CA) (Infringement of the 1st amendment? Hmm...)
...and I'm sure many more I haven't heard of yet...
On this July 4th, I wish our 'leaders' would follow some resemblence of our founding principles! God (can I still say that?) help and bless this country.... |
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| DaleB |
I think the phenomena of 'global warming' is a much more interesting topic than this bill.
The bill as it now stands (?) is loose enough to drive a truck through, well, at least an MDX.
It really reads more like a 'want list' ........like I want to collect taxes here, and here, and over here.
It would seem more prudent (since when is that a prerequisite?) to take existing CARB regulations and tailor them to meet today's science, once it is determined what that science is tellling us.
And of course, keep it in line with fed standards, so we can keep getting fed money besides sucking the California taxpayer dry. After all, we are going to need that money to support the next 'power crisis'.
I am waiting for the 'age tax'. Being older, and living longer has to be 'taxing to the state' if you will. So older citizens should be taxed more. Let's not curtail illeagal immigration, but let's tax our 'natives' who never seem to leave. Jacking up housing costs has not helped enough.
..and Worm, at our house we tax everyone equally that walks through the door. Even family! But if you are privleged to come into our home, you don't really mind. We kind of act like California... |
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