| MDXtrous |
quote:
Originally posted by msu79gt82
Now if the Lexus SC430 and the TL-S were the same price - that would be a no brainer:1:
Even if the SC430 were 10 grand more the TL-S it would also be a no brainer for me:D |
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| bareyb |
quote:
Originally posted by tigmd99
In other words, this whole thread is really NOT practical and does NO good for anyone...it is here to flame and make a joke of this board. Can anyone see this???
I posted this and I can assure it was not to make a joke of anyone. These are the two vehicles that I (and I'm sure many others) are considering buying. Up until this thread came along the main reason people were giving for not going with the Lexus was the price. I wanted to get people's impressions of how they stack up as vehicles (price aside). Since they are both in my price range (and again, probably in alot of people's price range) then taking that out of the equation opens of the board to alot more discussion of the strengths and weaknesses of both. I think it's obvious they have a completely different set of options and are optimized in different ways. The fact that this thread has gone on for 5+ pages is a good indicator that it was a good topic. Before this topic I was almost sure I'd go for the Lexus. After hearing the reasons why people would choose the MDX at any price, I must say it has swayed me back towards the MDX again. Especially if the Lexus drives like a tank. |
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| renov8r |
tigmd99 what's up? I love the CRV! I'm registered at gatorgreg's forum and am shopping for a 2002.HONEST... Thanks for the ad hominen attacks, I'll be sure to wear my extra thick skin when posting around you.
I did call the GX old tech, from its third seat to its b-o-f, to even its resaon for being... I don't think it compares to the MDX/Pilot very well. It is a totally different vehicle. I suppose the thread is kinda silly, but I've still posted to it. I think it is concievable folks would cross shop 'em, as the RX300 still lacks a third seat and the GX is the "next step", not quite so large as LX470.
That doesn't mean I don't think NO b-o-f vehicle should exist. You want to ford rivers, climb over felled redwoods and pull through bottomless mud, get a Unimog!
Specialty vehicles will always have their fans.
Even most full size SUVs are infrequently used off-raod or for towing.
I don't understand why Toyota is so into trucks, but then again I don't understand why so many consumers are so into trucks. They just are very poor choices for "general purpose" vehicles. It would be as if consumers started adopting 8-way Unix servers as their prefered computing device for web-surfing, e-mail, and word processing. It makes no sense. Toyota already has the 4Runner, Sequoia, Tundra and Land Cruiser. How many folks really take LX470s off-road? I think I may have seen one or two pulling trailers, but I'm guesssing most folks in the target demographic for LX470s own yachts that need to be put into dry dock for transport and their polo ponies FLY between matches... Heck how many Hummers spend 99% on road? It makes no sense. I'm sure the GX is going to be an amazingly capable vehicle. It is still makes no sense to me...
Personally, I think durability & towing have to go together. I mean even if somebody is "shopping" for an used 18 wheel Peterbuilt or Freightliner do you think they are going to say "Hey this guy never hauled anything but pig iron, I want to find one that was only used to haul foam packing peanutsl" I'm sure b-o-f trucks will be around forever. :D
I don't think any 'hard core' users of trailers would ever consider a uniframe, EVEN if it were a van/wagon that was demonstratably as durable as any b-o-f, too much bias to overcome. (Do you feel comfortable towing with your CRV?)
What's up with your dislike of TLs? I know lots of folks who appreciate their reliability, effecency and performance over German vehicles.
I dunno what kind of numbers Acura is "loosing" for Honda, but they seem to be pretty capable of putting together winners now and then. I hope it doesn't draw too much cash away from CRV R&D :D |
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| tigmd99 |
Hey all,
Ok...maybe i am not getting this whole thread. The GX470 will NEVER be at the same price...isn't that like comparing apples to oranges?? You HAVE to take into account the price difference because THAT would explain the differences between the two vehicles. Even if you're a zillionaire, you have to take the price difference seriously. Maybe i am being too practical???
Ok, msu79gt82, i have read this whole thread a few times...i still don't see any good reason to get an MDX over the GX470 other than third-row seat design and fuel economy. Handling is up in the air for now...because the LX470 can pull 0.72g (MDX about 0.74g). Acceleration is A BIT faster in the MDX (8.0 vs. about 9.0). Braking goes for Lexus...because even the LX470 braked better than MDX. Room is about the same for both. Off-road ability favors Lexus. Interior noise level favors Lexus. Interior materials favor Lexus (because of PRICE DIFFERENCE!). Quality favors Lexus. Customer service favors Lexus. Why?? Because of PRICE! Am i missing anything???
If you pick the MDX for the third-row design and better fuel economy, then good for you! I totally agree...can't argue with you there. However, what else???
Confused.... |
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| bareyb |
quote:
Originally posted by tigmd99
Ok, msu79gt82, i have read this whole thread a few times...i still don't see any good reason to get an MDX over the GX470 other than third-row seat design and fuel economy. Handling is up in the air for now...because the LX470 can pull 0.72g (MDX about 0.74g). Acceleration is A BIT faster in the MDX (8.0 vs. about 9.0). Braking goes for Lexus...because even the LX470 braked better than MDX. Room is about the same for both. Off-road ability favors Lexus. Interior noise level favors Lexus. Interior materials favor Lexus (because of PRICE DIFFERENCE!). Quality favors Lexus. Customer service favors Lexus. Why?? Because of PRICE! Am i missing anything???
If you pick the MDX for the third-row design and better fuel economy, then good for you! I totally agree...can't argue with you there. However, what else???
Confused....
EXACTLY! Alot of you guys are much more savvy than I about the relative differences between the two. I WANT to know what Lexus spent the money on. I WANT to know that Lexus has the better brakes and that the larger LX470 can still pull 0.72g (that's impressive as hell and the GX can only do better). In my mind perhaps the Lexus was just going to be a lumbering slob. If so, then I can't see me wanting it much.
On the other hand, renov8r makes a good point too. Why buy something so tough if we only do camping trails? The answer to that would be, I don't care if it's "overkill" as long as it doesn't sacrifice too much road handling capability. The fact that my RX300 is currently in the shop having the shock mounts replaced is testament to the fact that I probably pushed it a little too hard... So something made to take a bit more abuse might not be bad for me.
Your reasoning for why I'd be cross shopping these two vehicles is dead on. Until Lexus comes up with an RX300 with a 3rd row seat you can bet this type of cross shopping is going to happen alot. There is a big market for non minivans for growing families that need a 3rd row seat. Great stuff tigmd99, and EXACTLY the kind of thing I was looking for with this thread. That was a very logical approach to why you'd probably go with the new GX (if price were not a consideration) on the other hand renov8r and others have made some excellent points as to why the MDX is still the superior vehicle in many ways, even if price were NOT a factor. It's a good discussion imo. :) |
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| tigmd99 |
Renov8r,
I just don't get what you mean by, "specialty vehicles". The GX470 can do EVERYTHING the MDX can (except the disappearing third row seat)...what else??
What does b-o-f has to do with being low-tech?? How does b-o-f make GX470 less than MDX??? Unibodies are nothing new...minivans have it...cars have it.... Remember, MDX is not the first SUV with unibody...Nissan did it many years ago with the Pathfinder...Jeep did it even longer...are Jeeps high-tech??
Cross-shopping is fine...however, to disregard price doesn't make any sense.
Unimog and Hummers are not very comfortable...GX is.
Toyota is sticking to its roots! They have a great tradition of building capable vehicles. I am VERY happy they are sticking to it.
Thanks. |
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| msu79gt82 |
quote:
Originally posted by tigmd99
Ok, msu79gt82, i have read this whole thread a few times...i still don't see any good reason to get an MDX over the GX470
... then you read my post at top of page three where I said:
MDX wins hands down ...
... for styling. The Lexus looks like the truck it is. The Sequoia, Land Cruiser, LX 470, 4Runner, and now the GX470 all look the same - basically like a Jeep Grand Cherokee:rolleyes:
Thus you will see my decision has nothing to do with the reasoning you cite. |
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| msu79gt82 |
quote:
Originally posted by renov8r
tigmd99 what's up? ... What's up with your dislike of TLs? I know lots of folks who appreciate their reliability, effecency and performance over German vehicles.
Face it there are a lot of people who do NOT like some of the Lexus line (or BMW for that matter). Does that make them bad? No, it just means they don't like it!!! There is no accounting for taste, you can not make someone like something (or someone for that matter).
I do NOT like the GX470 - mainly because it is butt ugly. Period!!!
I have never been impressed with BMW( or most German cars for that matter) - I did not say they were bad cars, but they are not for me. |
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| tigmd99 |
msu79gt82,
Actually, please don't insult Toyota SUVs by comparing it to a Grand Cherokee. That Jeep GC is one of the worst POS. Sure, it off-roads well IF it's transmission don't fail or the QuadraDrive crap actually works! And the unibody of the Jeep GC is also weak...even the Liberty's unibody is stronger! Crash test will show it's inherent weakness. In fact, in this year's Peterson's 4x4 of the Year, the Grand Cherokee's auto transmission failed during the test!
FYI, the Quadradrive on the Jeep is no different than the CRV's system! It's true! Just think of the CRV's AWD multi-plate clutch in the rear...ok, now Jeep installs a similar system in front axle, center differential, AND rear axle. Basically, it is composed of three CRV clutches. That is how it works! There are no electronics...just all based on fluid pressure to engage the clutches. Unfortunately, there have been numerous problems with it...like the MDX, if the system is used often, you need to change the fluid often. Well, in the Jeep GC, the system is ALWAYS on! Therefore, if you're not careful, you can fry the clutches very easily!
Thanks. |
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| msu79gt82 |
quote:
Originally posted by tigmd99
Actually, please don't insult Toyota SUVs by comparing it to a Grand Cherokee. That Jeep GC is one of the worst POS.
Sorry, but Toyota/Lexus (among most everyone else) IS guilty of copying Jeep Grand Cherokee. Lexus was innovative with their styling of the RX300 and Toyota was very innovative with the RAV4 and to some degree showed some styling ingenuity with the Highlander.:cool:
However the 4Runner, Land Cruirer, GX470, and the LX470 still are styled like the Jeep they were copied from:( :o
Please note that I am talking about STYLING here and NOTHING else.
PS: In the last 25 years my wife and I have always owned at least one Toyota including now - see signature below! |
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| msu79gt82 |
... SUBSTANCE over STYLE. Or both?
To me the answer is both and cost is a major factor as well. I want good substance and good style at a good price. To me Acura does that as well, if not better, than anyone.
Specifically regarding the GX470 I can not get past the style to even consider the substance:confused: |
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| MDXtrous |
quote:
Originally posted by msu79gt82
Specifically regarding the GX470 I can not get past the style to even consider the substance:confused:
Agreed, GX470 just doesn't do anything to me style wise. It's as boring as the LX470, ES300, Highlander (looks almost identical to the Jeep Grand Cherokee), M-Class. If they had made it as exciting looking as the SC430, IS300, or GS400, it would much more than justify the $10,000 difference in combo with all the other points it excels over the MDX. |
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| renov8r |
I think Toyota/Lexus does do some very modern high-tech things, so I'm not really condemning the GX for being old-tech, more just wondering what they could have done with new tech.
I agree that the Jeep Grand Cherokee is not the most durable, reliable vehicle. It would have been interesting to see Lexus render its interpretation of the GC, perhaps using state-of-the-art product techniques. Lexus has the credibily to create one tough suma***** SUV AND do it with an eye toward future crossover vehicles.
As anybody who has compared vehicles with similar test track data can attest, the subjective stuff is what you live with day-to-day. I can test a GX yet, so here is my comparo to the LX470. While the LX470 does out brake the MDX (attesting as much to Lexus' hard work as Acura's lackluster test track braking performance) I can't image that anybody would truly say that a real world panic stop in the LX470 would leave you feeling any less YIKESED OUT than one in the MDX.(no I did not lock-up the brakes on the LX470 test drive, but I did brake hard, and it was not any more 'fun' than braking in the MDX) Similarly, though the LX is not far behind the MDX on the test track, in everyday commuting the MDX seems peppier and less monstrous. You know something is working VERY HARD to get you to speed. Lexus worked very hard at minimizing road noise (I think at least $500 or so of sound-proofing accounts for some of the price difference) and I think the suspension is also pumping things around to minimize commotion to, but it still seems like you are burning like a $20 everytime you step on the go pedal.
Now those are only the two most memorable differnces, there are other subtle things. Even things like the LX's driving postion. It seems further forward, not like a VW Bus, but the MDX is decidedly more sedan-like. The MDX inspires confidence. The interior materials in the LX are typically Lexus-like. Very nice. But also kind of when you visit a model home that your parents like, it didn't seem to me to be the kind of place I'd like to live in everyday. The Breitling (or is it IWC) Aviator's chronograph inspired dash is not as busy as that of the IS, but it still seems close to fadish. The MDX is decidedly more plain, but alos more timeless. The MDX ought to have better quality leather seats, but they are reasonably luxurious.
I suppose there are those who would say my tastes are all wrong, but I do admit that that it does come down to tastes(and pocketbook), as the GX is definately Lexus' MDX "fighter"... |
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| MDXtrous |
quote:
Originally posted by renov8r
I suppose there are those who would say my tastes are all wrong, but I do admit that that it does come down to tastes(and pocketbook), as the GX is definately Lexus' MDX "fighter"...
I think Toyota will use both the RX300 and the GX470 to "fight" against the MDX. And until they build a car/truck that takes the best from both, MDX will still get the crowd they do, which are those looking for a 7 passenger non-minivan SUV that drives like a sedan, has the attitude of a luxury sports sedan, but is wonderfully safe during inclement weather |
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| msu79gt82 |
quote:
Originally posted by MDXtrous
And until they build a car/truck that takes the best from both, MDX will still get the crowd they do, which are those looking for a 7 passenger non-minivan SUV that drives like a sedan, has the attitude of a luxury sports sedan, but is wonderfully safe during inclement weather
I refuse to own a minivan, yet I must admit to their practicality. We bought an EB '99 Expedition in 1998 because we wanted a 7 passenger non-minivan. What we really wanted was an MDX which did not exist. In Dec '00 the Houston Chronicle ran a review of the MDX that caught my attention. We immediately went for a test drive and placed on order on 1/2/01 because it was what we wanted all along! We sold the Expedition after having it only 2 1/2 years and 44K miles making it the vehicle we owned the least amount of times and miles. |
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| renov8r |
I don't mean to sound flip, but is there anything that is inherent in the RX300 that the MDX dsoen't do better? Size(unless wider is not better, see Vic...), power, interior layout/third seat...all point to MDX.
I suppose that we could get back on the b-o-f vs unibody think, but I've yammered on about that long enough...
Not to drift too far off topic, it just occured to me that while there are plenty of full sized unibody sedans what IS the biggest unibody SUV? Is it the MDX? Is the MDX/Pilot truly w/o a frame? Anybody ever seen this photo:
Not sure what it's showing, but to me looks like a frame... |
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| bareyb |
quote:
Originally posted by renov8r
I don't mean to sound flip, but is there anything that is inherent in the RX300 that the MDX dsoen't do better? Size(unless wider is not better, see Vic...), power, interior layout/third seat...all point to MDX.
I suppose that we could get back on the b-o-f vs unibody think, but I've yammered on about that long enough...
Not sure what it's showing, but to me looks like a frame...
Hate to break it to ya, but the RX300 is NOT body on frame. It's a unibody design just like the MDX... Not sure what picture you have posted there, but it's not a Lexus RX300. Looks more like one of the old Honda/Isuzu clones...
As to which one's better? I think the RX300 drives MUCH better than the MDX, it has nicer leather,better suspension, WAY better stereo, on/off headlights, up/down windows, a fully adjustable second row seat (not fixed as is the MDX) better dealers and better customer service. Other than that, the MDX does have that nifty 3rd row seat... :D
I also think the MDX is better looking than the RX300. The RX300 is just too "feminine" looking imo. It's perfect for my Wife though, so she will keep that and I will get to keep the new Vehicle (MDX or Lexus) whatever that turns out to be.
I disagree the GX's are ugly. I think they look great inside and out. They aren't as sleek as the MDX though, but they have their own appeal. I also don't think they look as traditional as some seem to think they do. I find them to be more of a cross between the traditional "SUV" look and the newer unibody type look. They don't have as much flair as an MDX though, and probably won't be as appealing to Women. Still for a Man's vehicle I think they have plenty of style and rugged good looks. |
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| renov8r |
...the photo is in FACT the MDX!!!!
Check out the wheels! It is NOT the Passport/Rodeo. NO SIR!!
Now, I'm not going to disagree about the RX300 having:
has nicer leather, WAY better stereo, on/off ,HID headlights, up/down windows, a fully adjustable second row seat (not fixed as is the MDX) better dealers and better customer service
But none of those things are inherent to the platform...
And I wll disagree about which drives nicer, as in which of these is more fun to drive, but again that is taste, not something we can get from an objective measurement.
My point was, I think, that I think Acura ALREADY have the BASIS for a superior vehicle to either the GX or RX.
The unibody thing was getting outta hand. I think the MDX has SIGNIFICANTLY more reinforcement than the Odyssey (or the CRV). It probably also has WAY MORE STRENGTH than the Highlander/RX300. Probably more than the Liberty, Grand Cherokee, Escape/Tribute.
I truly belive its PLATFORM is better than the RX300 and {FOR ALL EXCEPT EXTREME HARD CORE OFFROADERS WHO DRIVE OVER ROCKS THE SIZE OF MELONS ALL THE TIME} a better compromise than the GX470's ladder frame. |
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| bareyb |
quote:
Originally posted by renov8r
...the photo is in FACT the MDX!!!!
I truly belive its PLATFORM is better than the RX300 and {FOR ALL EXCEPT EXTREME HARD CORE OFFROADERS WHO DRIVE OVER ROCKS THE SIZE OF MELONS ALL THE TIME} a better compromise than the GX470's ladder frame.
It does look like a nice compromise between the ladder frame and lesser unibody construction. It certainly looks pretty tough. That may explain it's better than average towing capacity. For the most part I don't think most consumers are going to care what type of frame either one uses. They will judge them on how well they handle on the road. If Lexus can pull off a body on frame vehicle that handles just as well as a unibody then that's all most folks, including myself, are going to care about. How it drives... |
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| paul123 |
| That's all I have to say is that you want Independant Suspension. It's one of the most important factors to consider!!!!! |
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| tigmd99 |
RENOV8R,
First, subjective assessment is just that...SUBJECTIVE! Therefore, everyone is different. So, to FAIRLY judge a vehicle, you must compare the OBJECTIVE part.
Ok, can you show me proof that the MDX has MORE reinforcement than the Odessey????
"Slick shape" of MDX is that of the Odessey.
REN, i guess there is no point in continuing this argument because you are certainly blind to anything other than MDX being a "superior" platform. Dude, it is a freaking MINIVAN platform! It has the same suspension!!!! It is not even a suspension for any type of off-roading. If you put a limited-slip on the Odessey and put taller tires, you would have the SAME capability as the MDX!!! Don't you get it??? (According to Canadian acura/honda website, MDX has LESS wheel articulation than the minivan!)
One more thing, Honda does NOT have a history of making a true truck or SUV. Remember that! MDX is from a MINIVAN! How can it be superior to anything when it is, in fact, a MINIVAN. I am sure the MDX is better than a Sienna...i will give you that! :)
Are you so sure that the MDX unibody is STRONGER than the LX470 or GX470??? You compare the MDX's body to those with unibodies. Hint: Toyota Land Cruiser has the STRONGEST ladder frame body of ANY SUV.
As to the Lexus decision to make the GX, Lexus ALREADY have a "crossover vehicle"...it is the RX300/Highlander. There is no need to make another one, right??!! No vehicle feels good during a panic stop..duh! What counts is the DISTANCE...that will determine everything.
MDX is sedan-like is because it is based on a minivan!
Oh yeah, i much prefer a HARD dash, FAKE wood, POOR stereo on the MDX. Oh my goodness! Timeless, you say??? Ok....
LX470's dash is NOT chronograph-like!!! It illuminates very nicely thank you. It is nothing like the IS300! Man, what were you smoking when you drove it???? It just has the regular dials...nothing else.
Again, you never explained to me about your term, "specialty vehicle." What can an MDX do that the GX cannot?????
Thanks. |
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| MDXLuvr |
ok i'm a little late to the game but here goes:
First of all, I believe barry mentioned that the GX has 380 lb-ft of torque. I believe its 315 or 325 not 380.
IMHO,
Lexus GX strengths:
1. Lexus Quality/ Dealerships.
2. Nice Interior/quality workmanship(I am guessing based on hx.)
2. Torquey engine.
3. Quiet ride.
4. Off road capabilities/Towing.
Lexus GX weaknesses:
1. Boring styling.
2. Slower Acceleration.
3. Soft floaty ride/ avg. handling(I am guessing on this one too).
2. Poor Gas mileage.
3. Price!:eek:
MDX Strengths:
1. Elegant styling.
2. Great Acceleration/Handling for a SUV.
3. Wide.
4. Flexible seating/Utility.
5. ULEV engine with great economy for a SUV.
6. Price.
MDX Weaknesses:
1. Avg. off road capabilities.
2. Mediocore Radio.
3. Quality of interior.
I am sure I missed some other points, but this is a good start. I like, no make that LUV my MDX b/c it drives/handles like a sedan, is luxurious, yet has the ability to haul alot of people/stuff when necessary, and it still gives 20 mpg. Truly amazing.
tim99md- you make some great points, but allow me to explain our point of view. Most of us MDX owners don't share your enthusiasm for off roading. I/We don't really care about wheel articulation etc. etc. Mind you, if you are into hard core offroading, then those points would be important. But, then the MDX is probably not the vehicle for u. the fact is that 90% of SUV's don't leave pavement. In fact, i would guess 99% of luxury SUV's don't go off pavement. I don't want to scratch up my $40k luxury suv.
Another point, I really don't care about about maximum towing capabilities. The most my 'X will tow is 2000lbs. I would think the MDX would meet most people's needs. If you have a horse/trailer etc. then a Tahoe/Burb would probably be more up your alley.
As you previously stated, this arguement is silly since, The GX is $7-10k more expensive. A lot of the extra money is going into making it "nicer", and more capable off road.
Finally, to answer the question at hand. If they were the same price, would i pick the MDX or the GX. I would probably still pick the MDX. Again, this is based on MY needs, personal perferences, etc. etc. I am a loyal Honda fan, and look forward to every new Honda product launch(cars/motorcycles only). I think the 93+ mr2 was the last toyota that made me feel similarly.
peace! |
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| tigmd99 |
Hey all,
MDXLUVr, finally, someone that actually make sense! Everything you say is quite true. As i stated before (and MANY times on other threads), MDX is a true value! It has the most room, excellent power, and reliability. I would take it over the RX300 in a heartbeat!
However, to state that the MDX is on a superior platform or is a superior SUV to the GX470 is wrong. Yes, the MDX is better than GX at fuel economy and acceleration (oh yeah, and 3rd row seat design). But that does NOT make the GX inferior. Everyone is discounting the "other" good attributes of the GX and focuses only on the MDX strengths.
MDXLUVr, i hate to say this, but the things you mentioned can easily be accomplish with the Odessey. But, i agree with you that 90% of GX470 owners could get by with a minivan also.
Also, as the LX470 has proven, the ride on the GX will likely NOT be floaty due to its Adaptive Suspension (similar to what Cadillac finally installed in its Escalade). You can adjust the suspension from comfort to sport.
Personally, i am currently looking to buy a Toyota 4Runner 4x4 Limited. This will give me a good off-roading vehicle to play, yet not cry everytime a tree scratch the paint job (as i would do in a more expensive SUV).
Thanks. |
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| MDXLuvr |
quote:
Originally posted by tigmd99
Hey all,
MDXLUVr, i hate to say this, but the things you mentioned can easily be accomplish with the Odessey. But, i agree with you that 90% of GX470 owners could get by with a minivan also.
you are right. But, we had no kids when i bought the X(10/00), and I remember my wife saying something to the effect-" There is NO WAY IN HELL that i'm going to drive a minivan".:D |
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| bareyb |
After test driving a Lexus LX470 I have definitely shifted my focus more onto the new Lexus. The "trucklike" handling that has been so often touted here is simply not the case. It drives like an absolute dream. If the LX is "trucklike" then so is the MDX. Neither one feels "trucklike" at all to me. They both feel like extremely large/tall luxury Sedans.
Assuming the GX will be even better due to it's almost 800 lbs. lighter weight and shorter wheelbase, it really makes me feel that the Lexus is going to be hard to beat. Knock out the handling/independent suspension argument and you are left with "Styling" which is totally subjective. I can see strengths in both styling designs. Weaknesses too... Either way I think they are both gorgeous. Here is my take on the relative strengths and weaknesses of both brands using the prior posters model:
Lexus GX strengths:
1. Lexus Quality/Reliability/Low Cost of ownership
2. Nice Interior/quality workmanship
2. Elegant New Styling
3. Quiet ride.
4. Off road capabilities/Towing/overall durability
5. Great Acceleration/Handling for a SUV
6. Flexible seating/Utility.
7. The power curve and torque of a V8! (I'd forgotten how much I missed it).
8. Adaptive height (can be lowered or raised 4 inches in seconds)
9. Adjustable suspension (can be tuned to drivers taste and needs)
10. Ownership experience. Customer service and Factory Warranty are 2nd to none. Period.
Lexus GX weaknesses:
1. Gas mileage
2. Price
3. Bad 3rd row seat design
MDX Strengths:
1. Elegant styling.
2. Great Acceleration/Handling for a SUV.
3. Wide.
4. Flexible seating/Utility.
5. ULEV engine with great economy for a SUV.
6. Price.
7. Superior Navigation system (IMO)
MDX Weaknesses:
1. Avg. off road capabilities. No skid plate
2. Mediocore Radio.
3. Quality of interior.
4. Fixed position second row seat (too close to front seat)
5. Too wide for it's size. Similar to Chevy Tahoe. Makes for a tight squeeze.
6. Dealerships are no better than American Car Dealerships and the "Gouging" was a real turnoff (may have cost them the sale).
So really it sounds like the main advantage of the MDX is the navigation system and in my case the better designed 3rd row seat (we have a Kid with another on the way). Most folks here are citing the handling and the styling of the MDX as an advantage too, but I'm not so sure I agree. Especially now that I've driven an LX...
Handling: The extra wide width made the MDX is kind of a hassle to manuever as I recall. Even the car salesman had a hard time getting it out to the street. Compared to my RX300, the MDX has poor suspension characteristics. You can definitely feel the bumps and highway expansion joints more and I don't agree it's simply "more responsive with road feel". To me it was just stiffer and bigger and more van-like. I test drove the much larger and heavier LX and in some ways it had a better ride than the MDX. Definitely more comfortable through the turns and over bumps. You do feel the longer wheelbase, but that won't be an issue with the new smaller GX. Couple that smaller GX with that ultra powerful V8 and it's going to be hard to beat. I feel if the LX is THAT close in handling and ride quality already then a smaller lighter GX will probably at least match it and may surpass it. I felt absolutely no difference between the front of the vehicle to the rear. It was impossible to tell if it was independent suspension or not. The whole vehicle just rode very smoothly and traversed bumps with ease.
Styling: I think the GX is more masculine than the MDX. I disagree they are "boring". To me they scream high quality and are a nice cross between the mini van SUV look and the more traditional Truck look. The MDX is very nice looking, but I can't help but feel it still looks alot like a Soccer Mom car... At least it's still somewhat in that "genre" along with the RX300 and M-Class... Still of all the new vanlike unibody SUV's I think it's by far the best looking. It's more tough looking than ANY of it's competitors in the newer styled Car/SUV segment. Our RX300 on the other hand, looks like it should have a pink bow on it's butt, so I may be slightly jaded on this point. Having said that, I do feel the looks of the MDX are at the expense of any real protection for the sides and doors. The sheet metal is also very thin on the MDX's, not very smart considering they opted to leave the side mouldings off and provided no body cladding of any kind. It's also bizarre they didn't include a skid plate since all SUV owners tend to push the limits of their ground clearance. I know I have bottomed out on our RX a number of times trying to climb over high ruts or curbs. I was very glad there was a skid plate under there...
All in all, I'm leaning towards the Lexus GX by a margin. The customer service I've recieved with our Lexus RX deserves nothing less than repeat business. By contrast the treatment I've received from the Acura Dealers (except Hopkins) has been disgraceful. If I had to cite one thing that turned me off the most, it was the experiences I had with the Acura Dealers. I expected them to be a "class act" and they were not. The words "Sleezy, disorganized and untrustworthy" come to mind. So unless they are vastly disappointing in person vs. the pictures, I will probably go with the Lexus GX. |
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| TheWorm |
baryeb,
Enjoy your GX. I'm inclined to agree with a couple of the others (and myself early on) - your decision was made long ago. All rationalizations/"yea-buts" of the GX and pretty much all disappointments of the MDX. No doubt the GX will be an outstanding SUV; I don't see the point of belaboring the discussion here any longer. This thread has outlived its usefullness. If it ever had any.
It's a combination lester89/JNanas thread. We've had enough of those.
I can't help but wonder whether you've really driven either the MDX or the LX, to tell you the truth. In 67,000+ posts on this board, I can't recall a single one (nor can I recall a single industry review) that opined the 2nd row in the MDX was "too close" to the front row. Your comment that the RX (and now the LX) drives/handles better than the MDX? Puhlease. Even tho handling is somewhat subjective, that comment conflicts with the opinions of pretty much everyone who's driven any of these vehicles. Frankly, anyone who thinks the X has "poor suspension characteristics" compared to an RX (and who thinks the X is a "hassle to manuever" - which belies pretty much everything anyone who's driven one knows how it really does handle) is using such a drastically different barometer of ride and handling performance that their assessment just can't be taken seriously. Or they don't really like to "drive", but instead prefer to "sit".
The countdown on closing this thread has started. 10 hours to go unless something reasonably illuminating, accurate, or otherwise interesting shows up. |
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| bareyb |
quote:
originally posted by TheWorm
I can't help but wonder whether you've really driven either the MDX or the LX, to tell you the truth...
Whoa. Take it easy. I don't appreciate being called a liar. I absolutely have driven both and I DO own an RX300... Sorry if I ruffled a few feathers. This is supposed to be a comparison thread... Why even bother to have a "comparison" section if you are going to lock (read censor) the ones that don't favor the MDX? Sorry if you don't like my conclusion but there's certainly no need to attack me personally. |
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| srpbep |
bareyb ...
Your participation, opinions, and comments have been welcome [as you can see by the amount of submissions to the thread].
HOWEVER
I do agree with TheWorm, this is a dead horse. Points have been submitted on both sides. Both vehicles have received plenty of "air time". We are now at a point of restating these opinions and maybe pushing the opinions too far.
My vote = close the thread. |
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| wmquan |
Methinks that a real comparison between the GX470 and the 2003 MDX should wait until both vehicles are actually released. At this point, it is all conjecture.
Conjecture on the part of both qualitative and quantitative criteria. We really don't know what the ride and handling of the GX470 will be like. It may be phonomenal, or it may be a pig. And one's interpretation of ride and handling themselves are highly subjective. We also don't know the final price delta. Realistically, since Lexus is aiming the 2004 RX330 at the MDX, I doubt if the GX470 will be within a possible $5k of the MDX, IMHO.
Anyway, I don't think it's censorship but just good, common sense in the name of maintaining system friendliness. If it was censorship, this thread would have been shut down long ago, and/or been full of ugly name calling (you should see what happens on some other systems). The fact that this thread has made it that far and has only recently degenerated shows that even if the MDX enthusiasts on this system are (naturally) biased, we can tolerate quite a bit.
Once a point is made, and avenues exhausted, it's time to move on. It's okay to briefly revisit an issue, say, once a month or every couple of months. But I've seen boards get really, really ugly and spoiled if you let the same arguments fester over and over again. The RX300 discussion on Edmunds comes to mind. |
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| MDXtrous |
quote:
Originally posted by bareyb
[b]Handling: The extra wide width made the MDX is kind of a hassle to manuever as I recall.
Just a note before this is closed:
MDX actually has a smaller turning radius than an RX300. Very poor argument. |
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| bareyb |
quote:
Originally posted by srpbep
My vote = close the thread.
I understand and I am quite sure most who have purchased an MDX with their hard earned money will probably want it closed too. The Lexus is obviously winning this particular comparison in the eyes of most who have viewed the poll. Not very flattering. Is that a reason to, for all intents and purposes remove the thread? I think not. Not if you want an open and free discussion.
My point is, why pretend this is an open and free discussion area whereby potential buyers can debate about the strengths and weaknesses of one SUV vs. another (the MDX) if threads that don't favor the MDX are simply closed and allowed to disappear. I think this thread had alot of value for someone doing the inevitable comparison between these two vehicles. Up until now, the MDX has been able to trounce most all of the competition in it's class. Now Lexus comes along with what is arguably a better vehicle and suddenly I am attacked as a liar and the thread is closed by the moderators. It certainly gives the impression that the game is fixed. I say let it ride and come to it's natural death like every other thread. The only real reason this thread is being locked is because it favors the Lexus. and the outcome of the Poll. There have been no rules broken in this thread, no personal attacks other than the ones made by the moderator himself towards me. IMO it's simply a case of removing a thread that isn't overwhelmingly supportive of the preferred SUV around here. That would be fine if this thread hadn't been asked for and a comparison section had not been provided here for us to discuss the different competition.
If you are going to close the threads that don't favor MDX then this comparison section devolves to nothing more than a place where MDX owners can put down other makes of SUV without having to take any knocks of their own. The whole concept of a comparison section loses all integrity. Do what you will with this thread, but I feel it makes a pretty poor statement to close it. Just my .02. |
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| bareyb |
quote:
Originally posted by MDXtrous
Just a note before this is closed:
MDX actually has a smaller turning radius than an RX300. Very poor argument.
I agree. The turning radius of the RX300 is abominable. My "hard to manuever remark" was more due to the added width and trying to squeeze around other vehicles at stop lights and getting into tight places. I certainly didn't feel the MDX was "bad" just somewhat harder to manuever than vehicles that aren't as wide. |
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| MDXtrous |
quote:
Originally posted by bareyb
Up until now, the MDX has been able to trounce most all of the competition in it's class. Now Lexus comes along with what is arguably a better vehicle and suddenly I am attacked as a liar and the thread is closed by the moderators.
bareyb,
I don't think anyone disagrees that the GX470 will be arguably a better vehicle, but it will also be much more expensive. The fact is if that is discounted, the arguments don't add as much value. It's almost like trying to compare a Honda Accord at $25,000 and a Lexus ES300 at $35,000.
I've enjoyed the discussions, and I sure hope this continues to be an open forum open to different ideas. But I agree that this discussion could go on unend because of the comparison being a hypothetical... |
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| bareyb |
quote:
Originally posted by MDXtrous
bareyb,
I don't think anyone disagrees that the GX470 will be arguably a better vehicle, but it will also be much more expensive. The fact is if that is discounted, the arguments don't add as much value. It's almost like trying to compare a Honda Accord at $25,000 and a Lexus ES300 at $35,000.
I've enjoyed the discussions, and I sure hope this continues to be an open forum open to different ideas. But I agree that this discussion could go on unend because of the comparison being a hypothetical...
I appreciate your candor and I tend to agree. However, that doesn't change my stance on closing this thread. Since when does a thread going "on and on" become criteria for closing it? Is the server running out of space? I mean come on... Let's get real. This is nothing more than removing something that doesn't flatter the MDX. I guess comparisons are okay as long as they favor the MDX? Make no mistake, closing a thread is the same as removing it. Sure it may get found on searches, but then, since it won't ever be allowed to be replied to again it will never be bumped to the top and will remain unseen forever in the archives. It simply puts an end to all discussion.
I think this thead is extremely valuable in that many like myself will be comparing these two vehicles. More vehicles will come along that have the 3rd row seat, but for now these are the two best. I was a very serious buyer for the MDX, even had a deposit down on one at Hopkins Acura in Redwood City. Call Michael Andrews and ask him if Barry B. is a potential customer.
I still am a potential customer. This closing of the thread hasn't helped. I'm disgusted by it. One thing I really liked about the MDX was this forum and the Bay Area folks who own them. I feel like I've been kicked in the stomach because I made an honest and unbiased comparison. On top of that I've been called a liar. I never attacked anyone personally nor did I attack the MDX. I simply made observations of my own and came to my own conclusion. I thought for once a car forum could really be about free speech and exchange of differeing ideas. It appears that is not the case. Go ahead and close it, but I think it does a disservice to this entire "comparison" section and calls into question the entire integrity of same. I notice threads that favor the MDX and take cheap shots at virtually every other SUV on the market are allowed to stick around as long as they like. |
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| paul123 |
You have to wait and test drive the new lexus, and not go by there LX-470. The LX-470 is not a fair comparison to the MDX. Your comparing a 70K SUV to a 35K MDX. The GX is not going to drive as well as the LX-470. You are comparing apples and oranges. Wait for the GX test drive which I'm sure will lead you back to the MDX!!
I know I've said it before but I must say again "Rear Independant Suspension" Major factor for going with the MDX!!! |
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| srpbep |
quote:
Originally posted by bareyb:
...I understand and I am quite sure most who have purchased an MDX with their hard earned money will probably want it closed too. The Lexus is obviously winning this particular comparison in the eyes of most who have viewed the poll. Not very flattering. Is that a reason to, for all intents and purposes remove the thread? I think not. Not if you want an open and free discussion
OK BareyB ... you want reasons, here you go:
(1) This thread was, IMHO, good at the onset, reasonable facts and opinions, comparisons of features, etc.
(2) At some point, little if any new info appeared.
(3) Moved to repeat and worse yet, why "this diff was more important than that diff.
(4) Finally, we are on to very "OBJECTIVE [yeah right] comments" such as the one quoted above, The Lexus is obviously winning this particular comparison in the eyes of most who have viewed the poll..
bareyb, I have no qualm or issue if you like the Lexus better [you are entitled to your opinion]. BUT you seem to believe that YOUR OPINION = THAT OF MOST. Are you big [height, weight, elsewhere] that you believe YOU = MOST??
Go buy the Lexus ... I am sure it will be a great vehicle ... OR are you looking for something else? ...
Do you want us to buy it for you?
Do you want us to buy an MDX for you?
What the heck do you want?
We, myself and others, do own an MDX and are quite pleased with our choice [would definately do it again]. You seem troubled with our choice. Fine, be troubled. If it continues to bother you, go see someone who can help you. |
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| bareyb |
quote:
4) Finally, we are on to very "OBJECTIVE [yeah right] comments" such as the one quoted above, The Lexus is obviously winning this particular comparison in the eyes of most who have viewed the poll..
Um Hello? Have you looked at the Poll? MOST people DO feel that price aside, the Lexus is the better vehicle and would buy THAT.
As to the rest of your reasons, since when were any of those a reason to close a thread? Discussions should be (and are normally) allowed to continue as long as they can. Show me one other thread in the history of this forum that was closed for those reasons (and not because it went against the grain of the popular sentiment) and I will eat my hat.
If people don't feel there is anything to add then they will stop replying. This one is being removed simply because some people don't like the outcome of the Poll or the fact that the Lexus is (IMO) winning the debate. If this is being done simply to shut me up it was totally unnecessary because my last post was simply the conclusion that I have come to because of this poll and because of my research and test drives. It's quite clear to me (and I daresay most others) that this comparison section is strictly a place where people can bash other products that are inferior to the MDX. Put in a real winner that gives the MDX a run for it's money and BAM the hammer of censorship drops. I could see banning this thread if it were in the general area and was uncalled for. By putting in a COMPARISON section than you are implying that you want comparisons. If you are going to simply remove comparisons you don't like then it ceases to be anything less than a soapbox for MDX cheerleading and has no value at all. If you have to cheat to win, then IMO it's not really a win is it? I think the more rational MDX owners were giving as good as they were getting and I found it to be a pretty interesting debate.
This was simply an unbiased members research into the two best luxury SUV's available now. The fact that I favor the Lexus and can counterpoint every negative thrown at it should not be reason to close the thread. Closing the thread is just wrong and no amount of justification will ever make it right. |
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| wmquan |
quote:
Originally posted by bareyb
I mean come on... Let's get real. This is nothing more than removing something that doesn't flatter the MDX. I guess comparisons are okay as long as they favor the MDX?
...
I still am a potential customer. This closing of the thread hasn't helped. I'm disgusted by it. One thing I really liked about the MDX was this forum and the Bay Area folks who own them. I feel like I've been kicked in the stomach because I made an honest and unbiased comparison. ... I thought for once a car forum could really be about free speech and exchange of differeing ideas. It appears that is not the case. Go ahead and close it, but I think it does a disservice to this entire "comparison" section and calls into question the entire integrity of same. I notice threads that favor the MDX and take cheap shots at virtually every other SUV on the market are allowed to stick around as long as they like.
I'm sorry, but you're beginning to exhibit the "persecution complex" common to some of the folks who have left here on a bad note. They refuse to acknowledge and accept the consequences of their own actions and cry foul to a different crowd.
"Disgusted" is a rather strong term for you to use. This is simply an electronic system, there's no damage to your family here, it's only some dozens of opinions out of millions. Opinions on vehicles. Depending on what you buy, a $40k vehicle or a $50k vehicle. "Disgusting" is something like, starving children in the world while no one does anything about it.
If the tone of this forum affects your buying decision, your buying priorities are probably not in the right order.
"I made an honest and unbiased comparison" rings kind of strange because the very title of this thread automatically biases the GX470 over the MDX. If it was truly honest and unbiased, the real questions are, "if I had $40k of scratch, what should I buy?" and "if I happen to have $50k, what do I buy?" Sure the GX470 has a lot over the MDX. I would expect it to, and demand that it has, given the price difference. We've debated about how much that price difference will ultimately be, and I don't think we'll know until we purchase.
I'm as critical of the MDX as some of the owners here. Heck, I own the unpopular opinion that the ML320 is a very close second to the MDX and even beats it depending on your priorities. I think the GX470 could be an outstanding vehicle. But let's wait until it actually gets released.
I'm sorry you feel like you're being personally attacked. If you feel that I am now attacking you for complaining about a moderator's judgement on a enthusiast's system, I'm sorry about that too. But we'll both get over it. |
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| wmquan |
Plus the other reason this poll is winning is simple ... it says if the two vehicles cost the same, which would you buy? Now that's a fair question! Hey, I voted for the GX470 too. A Lexus, with Mark Levinson, HID, V8, etc. for under $40k? When a current-model RX300 optioned out lists for $40k (sure it doesn't sell for that much, but it's not like the GX470 will sell at deep discount for a while either!). Why would I want an RX300 when I could buy a GX470 at a lower price? Deal! I'll be the first on line to trade in my MDX.
So in that fanciful possibility, the GX470 is naturally going to win. I'm glad some folks can afford the price difference, but please keep in mind that for some of us, the price difference s beyond what we're willing to spend. Not that we even know exactly what that price difference is, we can only "fancy it." |
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| bareyb |
quote:
Originally posted by wmquan
Plus the other reason this poll is winning is simple ... it says if the two vehicles cost the same, which would you buy? Now that's a fair question! Hey, I voted for the GX470 too. A Lexus, with Mark Levinson, HID, V8, etc. for under $40k? When a current-model RX300 optioned out lists for $40k (sure it doesn't sell for that much, but it's not like the GX470 will sell at deep discount for a while either!). Why would I want an RX300 when I could buy a GX470 at a lower price? Deal! I'll be the first on line to trade in my MDX.
So in that fanciful possibility, the GX470 is naturally going to win. I'm glad some folks can afford the price difference, but please keep in mind that for some of us, the price difference s beyond what we're willing to spend. Not that we even know exactly what that price difference is, we can only "fancy it."
Well I don't think it would "naturally win" necessarily. I don't really see it as that obvious and hence the poll. Many folks would prefer the MDX regardless of price. I think that says alot about the overall satisfaction and was one of the things I felt a poll like this would bring out. Putting price aside also allows for comparison of the different philosophies behind each design. Something I honest was very torn about. I can afford either one but I see strengths and weaknesses to both designs. Price is not necessarily my top priority.
Anyway it was fun for the most part and I'm not really *mad*. Just kinda bummed that this had to be yanked. I thought it was a pretty good exercise. I know it helped me alot. At any rate I'm done here. No hard feelings. I still think this is one of the best car forums around. More tolerant than most. Anywhere else this thread would've been closed for members taking personal shots at each other. So what's the diff? Closed is closed. I'll still participate in the other threads and don't count me out as an MDX owner yet. I still have much respect for the design. And as I said before, ten grand is still ten grand... :D |
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| srpbep |
quote:
bareyb wrote:
...And as I said before, ten grand is still ten grand...
Now I REALLY DISAGREE. 10 grand is a hell of a lot more than 10 grand if you are comparing 10 grand BEFORE taxes to 10 grand AFTER taxes. Let's see...
** Federal Income Tax.
** State Income Tax.
** Disability Tax.
** Social Security [?tax].
** Medicate [?tax].
Then you have to look at what the extra 10 grand REALLY COSTS:
** Extra $10K worth of Sales Tax
** Extra $10K worth of Registration Fees.
** Extra $10K worth of Luxury Tax.
Before you guys from Texas jump all over me, I KNOW that you are gonna tell me I chose to live in California, had I elected to live in Texas the savings would have enabled me to buy something useful like a great gun rack loaded with some really neat accessories.
Anyway, just couldn't resist. bareyb, please take this in the spirit it was intended ... Enjoy
:D :D |
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| bareyb |
quote:
Originally posted by srpbep
Then you have to look at what the extra 10 grand REALLY COSTS:
** Extra $10K worth of Sales Tax
** Extra $10K worth of Registration Fees.
** Extra $10K worth of Luxury Tax.
I AM very curious about how that whole luxury tax thing works... IIRC it's on any amount over $40k? Anyone know the percentages? It's definitely something to consider... What percentage are registration fees are based on? Sales tax is 8.25% (in California) so that's an easy one. It would be good to know exactly how much that extra ten grand really IS costing... Any tax knowledgeable math whizzes out there that can crunch the numbers? :D |
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| srpbep |
quote:
bareyb wrote:
I AM very curious about how that whole luxury tax thing works... IIRC it's on any amount over $40k? Anyone know the percentages? It's definitely something to consider...
I just did a web search and came up with the following. I ASSUME that it is accurate but the web does produce some strange "facts" from time to time:
As part of an industry-wide working group, AIADA successfully lobbied Congress to begin phasing out this tax on America's small business auto dealers. On August 28, 1996 the tax rate decreased from 10% to 9%. It rate will continue to decrease by 1% each year until January 1, 2003 when the tax will expire. As of January 1, 2002, the luxury tax is calculated at 3% of the amount of the selling price in excess of $40,000.
Hope the above helps and hope that it is accurate :1: |
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| wmquan |
I'm pretty sure that the GX470 will be classified as a "truck", with its GVWR above 6,000 lbs (plus other factors). Thus, like the ML's have been, it will be exempt from any luxury tax that may be in effect when it goes on sale (and the luxury tax is going away anyway).
The MDX is under 6,000 lbs GVWR so is subject to luxury tax if your purchase price goes above $40k. That could cause an issue if the touring+nav goes up much in price, and the touring+nav+DVD will probably bust the $40k point too (luxury tax will be on the portion above $40k).
What people buying accessories often do is get the dealers to add those costs in as a separate purchase (though then you can't finance that part of the purchase, if you're financing). That keeps the selling price below $40k.
Since we're in the range of a subject, a vehicle that is classified by a truck by IRS standards (which the GX470 will fit into), can also be used for tax advantages if you use it for business I've seen some ML owners with their own consulting / software businesses benefit from that.
To the other point, I think a vehicle with more content will usually "naturally win" these kind of polls. I'm not saying the opinion will be unanimous, but content/$ is still one of the biggest motivators. The GX470 will certainly have some nice content.
And to the other point, this thread is not being yanked, it is not being deleted. It is only being closed before it deteriorates into something worse. It is still up in the Comparisons section, anyone searching for GX470 will find it. Sure it will eventually not be on the top of the "Comparisons" list, but even if this thread continued, it would eventually die out and drop down the list as well. If this system was really being censored, you would see the entire thread deleted without a trace.
Another reason I'm in favor of closing the thread (no new posts) is that these kind of comparison threads take a life of their own. Every once in a while someone finds a lester thread and tries to resuscitate it again. |
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| srpbep |
bareyb was curious about the REAL [NET] difference in cost between an MDX [say at $40K] and a Lexus [say at $50K].
wmquan made the point above that the Lexus would not be nailed with the Lux Tax because it would be a truck. If wmquan is correct, then no impact on either. If wmquan is wrong, then this adds another $300 to the cost of the Lexus in 2002 [will be lower in 2003].
Sales Tax in CA varies by locality because it is a blend of State and Local sales taxes. A vehicle purchaser pays the rate based on where lives, NOT on where the vehicle is purchased.
I have found in recent vehicle purchases that 10% of the purchase price is a good approximation for the cost of Sales Tax and the 1st of California Registration. Thus, this would add an additional cost of $1,000 to the Lexus. Now that I said that, I need to qualify this $1,000 a bit further:
(1) I have heard grumbling that CA wants to [?is going to?] raise the registration costs fairly significantly. I don't know where this stands or what "significantly" means.
(2) My neighbor has a big Ford Pickup [loaded] that cost as much as the MDX. Unless he is joshing me, the TRUCK registration is signicantly more than the MDX [guess this is because it is a truck!!]. So, if wmquan is right, this could result in a greater amount for the Lexus.
Anyone who has access to the current, correct info please jump in ... I do not wish to lead bareyb astray ... was just trying to help and would appreciate someone with more knowledge picking up the ball and running with it |
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| wmquan |
From the horse's mouth, so to speak:
http://www.irs.gov/formspubs/displa...3D80204,00.html
The only question is whether the GX470 will be over 6,000 pounds loaded (GVWR, vehicle weight + rated carrying capacity). Initial weight estimates are 4,675 pounds, so it should hit the 6,000 pound number pretty easily. The RX's payload is a bit skimpy but I doubt if the GX's will be. And I bet if they're within a hundred pounds, Lexus will add a hundred pounds of content to make sure owners aren't paying luxury tax. :D |
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| TheWorm |
(well, I see things have calmed down during the course of the day, and at the risk of re-inciting a riot...)
bareyb,
I'm not attacking u personally. I'm a big Lexus fan, and I'm sure it'll be an outstanding car. Uh, truck. SUV.
But IMNSHO, comparing a car that does not yet exist, which is likely to be $10k more than the MDX, and is going to be an '03 versus the MDX's '02, is an exercise in futility. Tho I'm sure most of the specs will still hold true vs. the 03 MDX insofar as creature comforts, material quality, etc.
I'm just confused how someone could opine that an RX drives & handles better than an MDX. Unless your preference is for the "floaty" ride, requiring little participation, I fail to comprehend how one can arrive at such a conclusion. I mean, c'mon - you need 4 lanes to make a u-turn and a three-pointer is required to pull into a parking spot!
It might be more beneficial for the listeners at home to say "the RX/LX provides a softer ride, more insulated from the road" or even "a ride more insulated from the road and its imperfections than the X, and I tend to prefer the former" rather than "the RX/LX/GX outhandles the MDX" or whatever the comment was. That is reasonably objective (or at least is subjective, but qualified with the rationale).
Given you own an RX and an ES (I think), you very well may favor the type of handling Lexus offers; let's face it, people buy Buicks, which to me is like a couch with wheels. Nothing wrong with that. I'm just saying that some objectivity or at least a frame-of-reference would be helpful for a "comparison".
re: your comments "one is being removed simply because some people don't like the outcome of the Poll or the fact that the Lexus is (IMO) winning the debate"...and the "I thought for once a car forum could really be about free speech and exchange of differeing ideas. It appears that is not the case. Go ahead and close it, but I think it does a disservice to this entire "comparison" section and calls into question the entire integrity of same. I notice threads that favor the MDX and take cheap shots at virtually every other SUV on the market are allowed to stick around as long as they like."
You've been around here long enough, I'd think, to know that's utter and complete BS. Spare us that sanctimonious crap. Threads run (or don't) for a variety of reasons. Some are inflammatory and entertaining at the same time; they live. Some are useful comparisons; they live.
Wanting to discuss the philosphies behind each design (body-on-frame vs unibody, superlux-vs-entry-level-lux, road manners vs. off-road capability) is worthwhile. IMO most of this "comparison" thread doesn't do that...it's a "this is better than that because I say it is" without any criteria stated for such a judgement. There is some discussion of design features and philosphies, but to me it's mostly a bareyb-outlines-why-the-GX-is-better (which isn't necessary, to be honest) and isn't objective or unbiased. It's pointless; the GX should be superior in a number of ways for the price premium.
And keep in mind this is an Acura enthusiast forum. You could go to the 'vette forum and talk about why the Ferrari is superior; but what would be the point of that?
And BTW, the paint on the Lexus is better than Acura's, too.
Back in awhile...after I'm done deleting all references to competing SUVs, hacking all other-SUV websites, and purging the entire Problems forum :rolleyes:
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| kexicao |
This is beneficial to people like me who is trying to decide between MDX or Lexus 470 (LX or GX). Even the comparison is not apple to apple. So far I can see all the people want to close this thread are MDX owners. I understand that this discussion is pretty much meaningless to MDX-owners. But there are a lot people on this forum are not MDX owners yet.
Just my $.02.
KC |
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| A2MDXer |
quote:
Originally posted by wmquan
Plus the other reason this poll is winning is simple ... it says if the two vehicles cost the same, which would you buy? Now that's a fair question! Hey, I voted for the GX470 too. A Lexus, with Mark Levinson, HID, V8, etc. for under $40k? When a current-model RX300 optioned out lists for $40k (sure it doesn't sell for that much, but it's not like the GX470 will sell at deep discount for a while either!). Why would I want an RX300 when I could buy a GX470 at a lower price? Deal! I'll be the first on line to trade in my MDX.
I too voted for the GX based on the assumption that price didn't matter. Of couse, it always does. You could take $10K throw it into a killer sound system, DVD package, maybe a performance package etc. and it might knock the socks off the GX (again, depending on your priorities). I think the fact that the current MDX compares so closely to a redesigned '03 that is significantly more expensive is proof that it's a great SUV regardless of price - the best - probably not but it's still a competitor. For me, at $35K nothing even came close. If money is no object, then you have many options and I am not sure that the GX is even the best choice. |
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| MDXLuvr |
quote:
Originally posted by srpbep
Before you guys from Texas jump all over me, I KNOW that you are gonna tell me I chose to live in California, had I elected to live in Texas the savings would have enabled me to buy something useful like a great gun rack loaded with some really neat accessories.
:D :D
or big 'ole lift kit, and tires to run over those armadillos!:2:
btw, i vote to keep the thread(i don't think barryb belongs in the lester89 and jnanas category). |
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| tigmd99 |
Hey all,
Geez, i was wondering when will you all see my point! :confused:
As i have been saying all along, this thread is plain SILLY! There is NO point because PRICE determines everything, especially when you compare two quality companies like Toyota and Honda.
Frankly, i don't care which car won in the poll. I just bought myself a '02 4Runner Limited 4x4 (excellent off-roader and cheap since '03 model is coming soon).
Have a good night. This thread should come to a close. |
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| tvfromhouston |
Having come late to the party, here is my $0.01.
Owning both a MDX and a Lexus LS400. I know the dealers for both companies, and at least in Houston, there really is not much of a diference. Both are great.
even if the Lexus was 10K cheaper I would still buy the acura again because
1: The fold down rear seat (I only use it about 5% of the time, and when its not in use its conveniently out of the way)
2. fuel economy
3.resell value (this is based on resell values for the RL vs the LS, and the TL vs the ES)
4.firmer suspension, and sportier feel
5. Acura name is just as prestigious as Lexus
6. Noone cares whether your car is an acura or a lexus, they just know that its not a German or American car.
7.Acura has already gone through its first year, whereas Lexus will still have the first year problems.
8. The Acura is wider and may be safer then the Lexus (though I am sure both will be very safe)
9. The last one is a stretch, but Acura only has one model, so all its R&D and resources go in this model, where as Lexus has 3 in its SUV lineup, so it may defray some iof its resources for the three. (OK I know it sounds a little weak, but you get my point)
But in the real world, the question is even if there are some things that the GX may possess that the MDX do not, does it justify the 10K difference? In other words, are you willing to pay 50K when 40K would get you just as good a vehicle. The answer is absolutely not. |
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