| socalJD |
| Not sure what to think about this until actual pre-production prototypes are seen and driven . . . I still remember the god-foresaken 318 ti, and am still wondering what the bavarians were drinking the day they rubber stamped that for the states . . . apparently they have made up for that debacle with the Z series . . . |
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| rlm32 |
I think I'd rather drive this...
VW Golf R32:
241 hp, AWD, 6 speed , Sport suspension, 18" wheels, xenon HIDs, sport seats. 0-60 in 6.4 secs. |
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| bareyb |
| I think it's a mistake. IMO it muddies the line. BMW and Mercedes are already losing market share to Japan (BMW is #1, Lexus is now #2, and Mercedes has fallen to #3 in total sales) and adding a cheap four banger to their line is only going to degrade the "prestige" factor even more. One of the main reasons people buy German cars is because of the perception and the prestige. It seems both Mercedes and BMW are doing their best to beat down the best thing they have going for them. Elitism. Opening this segment to the "average joe" is going to make the "snob appeal" suffer and unfortunately that's their greatest selling point... |
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| rlm32 |
quote:
Originally posted by bareyb
I think it's a mistake. IMO it muddies the line. BMW and Mercedes are already losing market share to Japan (BMW is #1, Lexus is now #2, and Mercedes has fallen to #3 in total sales) and adding a cheap four banger to their line is only going to degrade the "prestige" factor even more. One of the main reasons people buy German cars is because of the perception and the prestige. It seems both Mercedes and BMW are doing their best to beat down the best thing they have going for them. Elitism. Opening this segment to the "average joe" is going to make the "snob appeal" suffer and unfortunately that's their greatest selling point...
I couldn't agree more. If I was a loyal BMW or MB customer, I would be really upset at their effort to go down market. It devalues the brand, plus they are putting cheap materials and not as tight quality control and tolerances in these cheaper products, and their reliability has been degraded. Ultimately the customer confidence is gonna suffer. |
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| 02SSmdx |
How about a 2002 Camero Z28 SS?
320hp, 0-60 in 4.9 secs for about $28,000.
Get it while u can... |
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| MDXtrous |
quote:
Originally posted by 02SSmdx
How about a 2002 Camero Z28 SS?
320hp, 0-60 in 4.9 secs for about $28,000.
Get it while u can...
The only problem is that the car will probably only last 5 years, where you'll spend a lot of the time in the shop;) |
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| MDXtrous |
quote:
Originally posted by rlm32
I couldn't agree more. If I was a loyal BMW or MB customer, I would be really upset at their effort to go down market. It devalues the brand, plus they are putting cheap materials and not as tight quality control and tolerances in these cheaper products, and their reliability has been degraded. Ultimately the customer confidence is gonna suffer.
Mercedes has an A series that is big in Asia and Europe, but never came over. They also produced the SMART brand, also a lower end tailored car. BMW could do better with 1 series in Asia and Europe, but I don't think people want to go smaller than the 3 series here... |
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| DaleB |
The mini cooper was ok. A nice novetly vehicle for the nostalgic street racer.
But the Japanese + VW have the rest of the small car market well covered in "hot wheels". |
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| megabuck2 |
Re: If you want bang for the buck...
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by 02SSmdx
How about a 2002 Camero Z28 SS?
320hp, 0-60 in 4.9 secs for about $28,000.
Get it while u can...
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The only problem is that the car will probably only last 5 years, where you'll spend a lot of the time in the shop.
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Either in the shop for repairs or in a body bag near your pick and pull lot. |
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| paul123 |
quote:
Originally posted by megabuck2
Re: If you want bang for the buck...
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by 02SSmdx
How about a 2002 Camero Z28 SS?
320hp, 0-60 in 4.9 secs for about $28,000.
Get it while u can...
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The only problem is that the car will probably only last 5 years, where you'll spend a lot of the time in the shop.
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Either in the shop for repairs or in a body bag near your pick and pull lot.
There not known for the longevity. Alway alot of small Issues. Like you said at the shop alot or you have to be a part time mechanic to keep up with them. |
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| 02SSmdx |
No argument there! I have a soft spot for muscle cars, but I'm also smart enough to know that I'm not a mechanic and I wouldn't want to have my car spend half the time in the shop.
But you really can't get much more bang for the buck...
WL:D |
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| wmquan |
There's been debate for years about BMW and MB "cheapening" their image in the U.S. Through both introducing "lesser" models and also reducing content in certain aspects of their vehicles.
I have mixed feelings about this. It's not a black-and-white picture.
I think manufacturers like Lexus and Acura have really pushed BMW and MB. They've been consistently building the vehicles that hit the sweet -- and profitable -- spot in the marketplace. The original Legend, the ES300, LS400, RX300, TL, MDX, etc. are all strong examples.
One can argue until they're blue in the face whether or not those Lexus and Acura vehicles are "better" than their German counterparts. I think "better" is based on the priorities that an individual buyer comes up with, and I think that Lexus and Acura have done better in hitting the priorities of a larger base of customers. And that has hurt BMW and MB, who, while not wanting to be mass-marketeers with their brands here, don't like seeing their sales affected.
E.g. I think that the German vehicles still hold (in a very general perspective) an edge in driving experience, prestige, and safety. But I think the gaps in those areas have narrowed significantly. A lot of buyers find the the driving experience, image, and safety in the Lexus and Acura vehicles more than enough for their needs, and any gaps between them and their German competitors are insignificant or at least minor (overall) to the buying decision. Then those buyers are further attracted to Lexus and Acura for those qualities BMW and MB don't quite match up to here in the U.S. -- value, general vehicle quality and, arguably, consumer-friendly features (e.g. CD changers, other gadgets, and ergonomics).
That puts a lot of pressure on BMW and MB. Their heavy breadmakers include their compacts and mid-sized vehicles (e.g. the 3-series, the C-Class and E-class). Despite my feeling that Lexus and Acura hit the sweet spot of today's market better, there's still a market (albeit increasingly more limited) for the BMW's and MB's. But as the competition there increases, where do BMW and MB go?
What happens as the Japanese vehicles improve in the "driving experience" (as the IS300 and Infiniti G35 are now mentioned in the same breath as the 3-series, even if they're not quite there yet)? What happens as the Lexus and Acura vehicles improve in safety, get outstanding crash test results, and begin to be differentiated in safety areas that, frankly, the vast majority of consumers aren't knowledgeable in and simply don't care about (after all, some of the best-selling vehicles in the general marketplace are some of the weakest performers in crash tests -- safety sells, but only to a point). And, as we've begun to see with Lexus (though not Acura), what happens when the Japanese luxury marque begins to become as prestigious as the BMW and MB labels?
MB's weathered a lot of criticism for its compact vehicles (remember the 190's). BMW's 318ti was a dud. The MB C230 Kompressor Sports Coupe is a much more interesting vehicle, though perhaps not to the average buyer in that price segment (one who is more likely to get, say, an RSX). I'm really not sure if a 1-series or a U.S. MB A-class is going to be well received at all here.
I'm sure they'll have some very nice engineering features, and lots of safety gear (heck, what's in the Mini Cooper is a ton of safety features). But it's going to be tough for them to compete in a market where, in very general terms: bigger is better, safety can be good enough, value is big, and quality needs to be high. |
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| 7plus |
| Nissan electric car |
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| MDXtrous |
quote:
Originally posted by 7plus
Nissan electric car
Wow, 7plus, your photoshop skills are getting real good:D |
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| paul123 |
| I would never drive this small a vehicle, could you image what a 4000 lb. gas car hitting you would do? I'm scared to think!!! |
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