| C-Bear |
Coming up on the first oil-change in our new MDX (3,750 mi — severe conditions) and I'm definitely going synthetic for my motor-oil. I also drive a BMW, and for any Bimmerphiles out there, you know that Red Line oils and BMW often go hand-in-hand. I'm wondering if anyone out there uses Red Line motor oil for their X (I'm definitely sticking with Honda products for things like the VTM and transmission), or can at least comment on this specific product when used in Acuras.
Otherwise, I'm going with Mobil 1, but am open to all opinions and suggestions (and yes, I've run a search here and read extensively).
Thanks… |
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| socalJD |
| kinda off topic, but why Red-line for Bimmers ? When I had my 3 & 5 series, I always used Castrol GTX, especially since the area dealers used the same. I figure by changing oil/filter every 3,500 miles with regular oil, frequency would compensate for synthetic - unless you had M powered cars and that is a whole different ball game. I also intend to use Castrol 5W-30 for the 'X as well . . . |
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| C-Bear |
quote:
Originally posted by socalJD
kinda off topic, but why Red-line for Bimmers ? When I had my 3 & 5 series, I always used Castrol GTX, especially since the area dealers used the same. I figure by changing oil/filter every 3,500 miles with regular oil, frequency would compensate for synthetic - unless you had M powered cars and that is a whole different ball game. I also intend to use Castrol 5W-30 for the 'X as well . . .
Red Line for Bimmers because it's probably the best synthetic motor-oil on the market. It's made exclusively from a base stock of polyol-esters, unlike the major-brand synthetics (such as Mobil 1) that are made from polyalphaolefins. Both are superior to petrolium-based oils, but the "esters" edge out the "oelphins" in quality, hence the preference for Red Line.
Castrol is indeed the oil inside the "BMW Synthetic" bottles, but there is an unresolved question as to whether or not it's the same Castrol you'd get off the shelf at Pep Boys, or a unique blend made especially for BMW. All BMW's come from the factory now with synthetic oil and it is what's recommended in the owner's manual; dino-oil may even void the warranty, I'm not sure.
I'm not a fan of Castrol in part because of the advice of master-techs I know who work exclusively on BMW's and don't recommend it. Also, Castrol's refusal to inform the public as to exactly what kind of oil is in the "BMW Synthetic" brand, if it is a true synthetic or a synthetic-blend (which many have speculated and Castrol will neither confirm nor deny). Too, Castrol early-on lied in print about the nature and quality of their synthetic oil, to the extent that Mobil sued them for fraud and false advertisement.
And, in all, Mobil 1 appears to be a better product, and Red Line better still.
Lastly, I'd truly rethink the use of "regular" oil over synthetic, even with more frequent change intervals — all current evidence is in favor of synthetics, at least by my lengthy research.
Now, back to my original question and anyone who can answer it… ;) |
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| Lrpba300 |
C-Bear, u may want to go to Acura-TL.com, & do a search about Redline vs Whatever. There's a guy in there that's named Road Rage, & he's the GURU of oils. He absolutely goes by Redline. We spoke many times with lots of others about what was best. I think alot has to do with the temperature where you live. How hot it gets, how cold it gets. Over the LONG run, extreme conditions, longer oil changes, etc. Synthetic oils are the way to go. When you are still breaking in an engine, (even at 3750 severe service) the engine is still in some break-in time. That's why I use Valvoline SEMI- synth. oil. Has the qualities of sunth. for temp. properties, & the dino type for detergent quality of "suspending" the particles during break-in time.
You CAN'T go wrong using Redline or Mobil for regular oil changes. It is the EXTRA EDGE for wear & tear in the engine. Check w/ Road Rage, he'll give ya so much info, it'll hurt! :D
PS. My contention is that I'd seen many oils & additives used when I use to rebuild engines. RR agreeded w/ me that valvoline, mobil, other synth. are OVERALL better than dino oils. Redline is the top of the quality chain. |
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| DaleB |
I use Mobil 1, and even at that would find it hard to justify over the best multi-grade dino oil for street use in an SUV.
Still, I like the extra margins synthetics do provide. But personally I can not justify the additional cost of Redline or Amsoil over Mobil 1 for my intended purpose (and I don't baby my cars, but I do maintain them well) to extend that margin
to 'where man has never gone before' or maybe shouldn't be.
If Mobil 1 is good enough for the manufaturers of many high performance vehicles and many racing mechanics, then I reason it's got to be good enough for me in an SUV. |
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| MannyE |
In my area, Redline is not an option. A car in Miami will sit in traffic at over 100 degrees for months on end. The weatherman may say its 90 or 92, but I'll bet a thermometer placed outside a traffic jam on a Tuesday afternoon will register triple digits.
As soon as I get to 3750, it's Redline all the way.
The only good thing about it is the engine is already warmed up when you start!
:rolleyes: |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by MannyE
In my area, Redline is not an option. A car in Miami will sit in traffic at over 100 degrees for months on end. The weatherman may say its 90 or 92, but I'll bet a thermometer placed outside a traffic jam on a Tuesday afternoon will register triple digits.
As soon as I get to 3750, it's Redline all the way.
The only good thing about it is the engine is already warmed up when you start!
:rolleyes:
It's sad that 99.9% of Miami and Phoenix motorists will be damn lucky to get 100,000 miles out of their cars. If only they knew about Redline...sorry, I just think it's overkill. |
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| rvehock |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
It's sad that 99.9% of Miami and Phoenix motorists will be damn lucky to get 100,000 miles out of their cars. If only they knew about Redline...sorry, I just think it's overkill.
I lived in Phoenix for 28 years, I was there when they recorded 122 degrees at Sky Harbor Airport that grounded all aircraft. I was using Castrol GTX back then in all three of my vehicles (non-synthetic). Each of those vehicles went way over 100,000 miles with no signs of any oil related problems:confused: |
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| DaleB |
Castrol is what I used in my RX7. Every RX mechanic recommended it. You can not use synthetic in a rotary engine, and rotaries operate at higher temps. than a piston engine.
Most important is regular changes, and maintaining the rest of the engine, especially the cooling system. |
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| MannyE |
Dale is right about the short life of most cars in the dessert/tropics, but with regular oil changes, even dino oil will keep an engine running well. changing every 1500 to 2K (go ahead, flame, but I would still do it that often with dino.)
It's the rest of the car that falls apart due to the unrelenting castigation of the sun, which cracks the dash, drys out the leather, fades the paint, and even makes some parts turn to dust (as in the bumper inserts on 80's Cadillacs...in most other places they are faded and cracked..here they are GONE!)
Even a car kept in a garage at home is usually left to bake in the sun while the owner is at work. Those lucky enough to have cover both at home and work don't have to worry, but for me, whose garage is now full of baby stuff...and who has a parking lot at work that seems to magnify the heat (don't they all?). I'm out of luck.
It may be overkill, but I'm not going to take any chances. I'm also looking to get the towing package cooling system even though I don't plan to do any towing.:26: |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by MannyE
Dale is right about the short life of most cars in the dessert/tropics, but with regular oil changes, even dino oil will keep an engine running well. changing every 1500 to 2K (go ahead, flame, but I would still do it that often with dino.)
It's the rest of the car that falls apart due to the unrelenting castigation of the sun, which cracks the dash, drys out the leather, fades the paint, and even makes some parts turn to dust (as in the bumper inserts on 80's Cadillacs...in most other places they are faded and cracked..here they are GONE!)
Even a car kept in a garage at home is usually left to bake in the sun while the owner is at work. Those lucky enough to have cover both at home and work don't have to worry, but for me, whose garage is now full of baby stuff...and who has a parking lot at work that seems to magnify the heat (don't they all?). I'm out of luck.
It may be overkill, but I'm not going to take any chances. I'm also looking to get the towing package cooling system even though I don't plan to do any towing.:26:
Do what's right for your 'baby'. I got the towing pkg. too, and would on any vehicle where it was offered as an option. Although, for the money Acura's is anemic in comparsion to the coolers they offer on most domestics. But on a new X it is at least wrapped into the bumper to bumper warranty if dealer installed. I would consider more HD after-market coolers myself if after the 'sale'. |
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| MannyE |
Bottom line, if there ever is one on an internet thread:rolleyes: , Redline Oils can't hurt, unless you count your wallet, and may, IMO be a great help in getting the most out of your engine.
The only question I have is the compatibility of Redline vs. Mobil 1 when used with aluminum engines like ours. If I understand correctly, while the oil is in contact with iron sleeves in the actual cylinders, the rest of the path is aluminum right?
Hmmmm I'm going to start another thread about our engine.... |
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| paul123 |
quote:
Originally posted by C-Bear
Coming up on the first oil-change in our new MDX (3,750 mi — severe conditions) and I'm definitely going synthetic for my motor-oil. I also drive a BMW, and for any Bimmerphiles out there, you know that Red Line oils and BMW often go hand-in-hand. I'm wondering if anyone out there uses Red Line motor oil for their X (I'm definitely sticking with Honda products for things like the VTM and transmission), or can at least comment on this specific product when used in Acuras.
Otherwise, I'm going with Mobil 1, but am open to all opinions and suggestions (and yes, I've run a search here and read extensively).
Thanks…
How much is the red line synthetic per quart? I used to use synthetic oil but with my 3000 mile oil changes it started to run to much in cost, and many people were telling me that synthetic should go longer between oil changes, but I always do it at 3000 mile 3 month intervals mainly for the oil filter replacement. i don't want the by-pass to kick in on the filter itself. Then the question is should I use an expensive synthetic or just a high grade oil, with the 3000 mile oil change?? |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by paul123
How much is the red line synthetic per quart? I used to use synthetic oil but with my 3000 mile oil changes it started to run to much in cost, and many people were telling me that synthetic should go longer between oil changes, but I always do it at 3000 mile 3 month intervals mainly for the oil filter replacement. i don't want the by-pass to kick in on the filter itself. Then the question is should I use an expensive synthetic or just a high grade oil, with the 3000 mile oil change??
That's why I settled on Mobil 1. It is used so universally it is easy to get. There are always sales, so it is reasonable if not exactly cheap. And has a great rep. So does Amsoil and Redine, but you can only get Amsoil from a 'dealer'. Most speed shops carry Redline. I think even Pep Boys might, I know they carry some of their products.
Mobil 1 can mix with any oil as far as I know, I would think Redline could.
Manny:
I don't think aluminum is a real concern except for coolant. |
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| C-Bear |
quote:
Originally posted by Lrpba300
C-Bear, u may want to go to Acura-TL.com, & do a search about Redline vs Whatever. There's a guy in there that's named Road Rage, & he's the GURU of oils.
This was excellent advice and I took it. Thank you. I've spent a couple hours over there searching and reading and I'm still not through all the good info on oil that guy has posted. Good call. :29: |
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| C-Bear |
quote:
Originally posted by paul123
How much is the red line synthetic per quart?
Best I've found so far is $7.95 per quart — about $3 more per quart than the new Mobil 1 SuperSyn. |
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| DaleB |
I read RoadRage's comments on oil as well as K&N filters which he also thinks are not that good, because certain tests say they let in too much dirt compared with some others.
I would say he certainly knows more than the average 'Joe'. But he is a little windy.
I've been in engineering for a long time,
I wish I had a nickel for every time we had one person go off on a tangent to prove a point. And I am talking about knowledgeable people, professionals.
But so often get lost in the details, they miss the big picture, which often involves a change that is really minor but may be more cost-effecitve.
It's not that they are wrong, but the results of their findings are buried in minutiae that has little bearing in the real world.
Often, they miss factors that are much more relavent, and obvious. Simple things are often more revealing, like long term tests of racing teams, fleet operators, military tests, etc.
Let me just say, I give him his due, for doing a lot of research to find these somewhat obscure studies that prove his point. Where he fails is categorizing
esters and olefins as to the advantages of each. He is only doing a half job, because no one way is the 'perfect' way. Synthetics are 'engineered' and each lubrication engineer has his or her preferences, but in the end they both work just fine, the differences over the life span of an automobile, would be insignificant. The fact that most good synthetics like Mobil 1 are less expensive speaks volumes about supply and demand.
Mobil has been making synthetics for over 30 years, and were the first to introduce it for mass marketing. And at that time they were only the 5th largest petroleum company. The reason ? They spent a larger percentage of profits on research than the other oil giants.
And remember this, the Mobil 1 you may buy is designed for production automobiles. Mobil makes racing oils also, as well as aerospace lubricants, industrial lubricants, and the list goes on.
I would be the first to defend Redline as a superior lubricant, but recommend the extra cost like I would recommend you spend $3500 on a set of run-flat tires and wheels, and let's face it, that could have a greater benefit on your life, than the brand of oil you use will have on the longevity of your engine, my point being, keep it in perspective. |
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| C-Bear |
| Excellent, well-written post, Dale; all points taken. ;) |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by C-Bear
Excellent, well-written post, Dale; all points taken. ;)
I am like everybody else you know? I have found things I thought were as innovative as sliced-bread.
But after examining them more under a different light, I realized they are still good, but not quite all that great as I thought under first impressions.
You got to look at the big picture.
One very positive thing about Redline is their manual transmission lubricants. And this is something you can actually feel when operating it. Not all transmissions, but some that tend to be notchy tend to shift smoother.
You could not go wrong with their lubricants, but IMHO it's not worth a $15 premium (over other synths) with every oil change.
Not for my intended purpose in properly maintaining and enjoying a well engineered SUV.
Under other conditions not so typical I might think differently. It was not that unusual to get 200,000 miles out of engines even before synthetics were used. Some might argue, yeah but they did not run as hot as todays engines. That's true, however, they were much more dirty, contmainated the oil qucker due to excessive blow by, and were using oils so inferior to even today's dino oils. But I am AR enough to still use Mobil 1 even though a premium motor oil would likely do just as well with regular maintenance. |
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| DaleB |
A side point on engine temperature:
I stated that today's engines operate at much higher temperatures (isn't that what the oil ads say?)
That really is true, in order to burn more completely, ironically, earlier cars overheated much more frequently because they did not have the benefits of modern materials, superior coolants and cooling system designs. |
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| DaleB |
I am worn out. My big motivation was to really close the gap with TheWorm. I am hot on his trail, and eventually he will have to surrender the title....maybe then I will enjoy my 15 min. of fame (presumptuous, aint I?) then let the rest of you fight to get the 'crown'.
What I want to know is if TheWorm was always on top, or did he displace someone else?
IF he has always had the most posts then that is a great accomplishment. If not, then he will be taken down by a novice. Someone who started writing posts on here like crazy even before I had an MDX.
Some would say, "Get a life!" ..and you are probably on to something.
So with that I say good night, just happy we are able to maintain the arena in the SF Bay Area.
You can jump all over me on the Redline posts, I don't care.. I had an ulterior motive in mind! Even though it really didn't raise my number doing a lot of back and forth responding....:2: |
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| C-Bear |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
I am like everybody else you know? I have found things I thought were as innovative as sliced-bread.
But after examining them more under a different light, I realized they are still good, but not quite all that great as I thought under first impressions.
You got to look at the big picture.
This is an enigmatic response — you do realize that my compliment was sincere, don't you? |
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| TheWorm |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
I am worn out. My big motivation was to really close the gap with TheWorm. I am hot on his trail, and eventually he will have to surrender the title....maybe then I will enjoy my 15 min. of fame (presumptuous, aint I?) then let the rest of you fight to get the 'crown'.
What I want to know is if TheWorm was always on top, or did he displace someone else?
IF he has always had the most posts then that is a great accomplishment. If not, then he will be taken down by a novice. Someone who started writing posts on here like crazy even before I had an MDX.
Some would say, "Get a life!" ..and you are probably on to something.
So with that I say good night, just happy we are able to maintain the arena in the SF Bay Area.
You can jump all over me on the Redline posts, I don't care.. I had an ulterior motive in mind! Even though it really didn't raise my number doing a lot of back and forth responding....:2:
LOL, Dale...I was thinking "Jeez, Dale, 3 posts in a row. Couldn't ya just start a new paragraph instead?!?!?! :D
A handful of people have held the #1 spot at varying points in time, although I believe each of us has been an old timer (A4L, remery, ghost, wmquan...going by memory of course). Each here since the launch of the site, or damn near (Nov 2000). You're gonna be the first "newbie" to hold the coveted spot.
If ISPs start cancelling 'unlimited access' plans and go back to those per-minute online charges, we'll know who to blame ;) |
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| C-Bear |
quote:
Originally posted by TheWorm
LOL, Dale...I was thinking "Jeez, Dale, 3 posts in a row. Couldn't ya just start a new paragraph instead?!?!?! :D
A handful of people have held the #1 spot at varying points in time, although I believe each of us has been an old timer (A4L, remery, ghost, wmquan...going by memory of course). Each here since the launch of the site, or damn near (Nov 2000). You're gonna be the first "newbie" to hold the coveted spot.
If ISPs start cancelling 'unlimited access' plans and go back to those per-minute online charges, we'll know who to blame ;)
This thread is officially whored…;) |
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| paul123 |
quote:
Originally posted by C-Bear
Best I've found so far is $7.95 per quart — about $3 more per quart than the new Mobil 1 SuperSyn.
WOW!!!! And I thought Mobile 1 synthetic was expensive!!! To costly for my 3000 mile oil change. I'll stick with my high end oil 5W-20, 5W-30. I do agree synthetic's are better but for me a waste with the often oil changes that I make. It all a matter of how much protection you feel you need. If you had a custom high compression, high performance modified engine worth $10,000 by itself, then I would use the expensive synthetic. The MDX stock engine doesn't require that high end oil, especially if changing every 3 month, 3000 miles. If was going to extend the oil changes to 7500 miles then I would go for the Mobil 1, the redline would have to extend to 15,000 miles. At 15,000 miles you would have to change the filter at the 7500 point and not change the oil. Everything is all relative to how much protection is needed! There comes a point where oil are all excellent, and you start to get to different levels of excellence. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by C-Bear
This is an enigmatic response ? you do realize that my compliment was sincere, don't you?
Yes, I do, C-Bear ! And it is appreciated, my only excuse is the hour was late and I was begining to ramble...:rolleyes: |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by paul123
WOW!!!! And I thought Mobile 1 synthetic was expensive!!! To costly for my 3000 mile oil change. I'll stick with my high end oil 5W-20, 5W-30. I do agree synthetic's are better but for me a waste with the often oil changes that I make. It all a matter of how much protection you feel you need. If you had a custom high compression, high performance modified engine worth $10,000 by itself, then I would use the expensive synthetic. The MDX stock engine doesn't require that high end oil, especially if changing every 3 month, 3000 miles. If was going to extend the oil changes to 7500 miles then I would go for the Mobil 1, the redline would have to extend to 15,000 miles. At 15,000 miles you would have to change the filter at the 7500 point and not change the oil. Everything is all relative to how much protection is needed! There comes a point where oil are all excellent, and you start to get to different levels of excellence.
Like many things, it reaches a point where throwing in more and more money gets you fewer gains. |
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| MannyE |
| This thread has actually gotten me thinking about REdline in a different light. I mean, if Mobil 1 is good enough for the LS-6 then it should be good anough for the.....ummmmm does our engine have a designation? I'm sure it must...what is it? |
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| DaleB |
| J35A3 according to the service manual. |
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| MannyE |
| Do any other Honda automobiles use this engine? I ask because sometimes go-fast goodies or computer programming can be had from other sporty models that share an engine... |
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| DaleB |
| The Odyssey and Pilot. The Acura RL uses a detuned version (225hp). |
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| Lrpba300 |
I've been busy for a couple of days, & couldn't get on line. I've read all of the posts after I posted to C-Bear to go read RR on the Acura-Tl board for info on Redline oil. DaleB, I know that RR can go overboard, but, (depending on what all you read) he was making points to one of the people who said Amsoil was as good as Redline, he went on to prove that person wrong, & the flaming started. He said in past posts & conversations w/ me, that Mobil1 oil is a great oil for everyone. He ALSO pointed out that MANY of the Synth. oils can go much longer between oil changes, thus helping to supplement the costs of the synth. oils. He did point out that on a rating scale, redline was a 5, due to it's componds, & that some other synth. are only a 3 or 4. Still much better than most dino oil's. He ALSO agreeded that regular changing & filters will make an engine last a long time.
I was just trying to tell C-Bear to go check out some good info about synthetic oils & redline. I hope this won't turn into some of the "heated" debates that happened over at the Acura-TL board, & realize that most of it is personnal choice. I think Mobil1 oil is great stuff. I personally like Valvoline products. I won't try to tell ANYONE it's the best & only one to use. Redline is one of the best synth. you can buy. It's to expensive for me to use, but that doesn't make it any less quality. Some people may not justify the cost of using it, some might. That's personal choice. Making a choice doesn't make "your stuff" the best choice , or the worst. We have to some times remember that facts & study's are still a choice we make, that are the best for our application. Sorry for the ramblings, but it was the best way I could say it all. |
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| DaleB |
Well, you certainly did not ramble more than me!
Well, it's all good really. You have to read up on all these things including RR's comments which are interesting. It's all a matter of being informed and making the decision you are most comfortable with.
If we were not all such techies and tweaks about this stuff, and did not share a keen interest, we just wouldn't care. We are probably all going overboard to some extent because we want to give our X's the best maintenance we can.
I have no doubt the best cared for vehicles are well represented by the membership of this forum. |
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| Lrpba300 |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
Well, you certainly did not ramble more than me!
Well, it's all good really. You have to read up on all these things including RR's comments which are interesting. It's all a matter of being informed and making the decision you are most comfortable with.
If we were not all such techies and tweaks about this stuff, and did not share a keen interest, we just wouldn't care. We are probably all going overboard to some extent because we want to give our X's the best maintenance we can.
I have no doubt the best cared for vehicles are well represented by the membership of this forum.
Amen brother X owner. I hope we're here to keep each other informed. No problems w/ personal choice's. That's what makes us all different. (But still LOVE the"X" :4: ) |
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| whynotmdx |
quote:
Originally posted by paul123
If was going to extend the oil changes to 7500 miles then I would go for the Mobil 1, the redline would have to extend to 15,000 miles. At 15,000 miles you would have to change the filter at the 7500 point and not change the oil. Everything is all relative to how much protection is needed! There comes a point where oil are all excellent, and you start to get to different levels of excellence.
Actually Amsoil and Redline were designed for extended drain intervals. The oil doesn't break down and the additives are there to accommodate a longer use duration and still maintain acidity and contaminant control.
AMSOIL Applauded For Extended Drain Intervals
The retail price for a quat container of the Amsoil engine oil warrantied for 25,000 is $5.85; "preferred customers" can buy it at the wholesale price of about $4.00, or about 1/3 off. That's two to three times higher than most retail conventional oils but if you can securely count on a 15,000 to 25,000 mile drain interval, it's a flat-out bargain, not to mention providing a clear environmental bonus.
From Redline:
Because of the robust polyester base stock and high-performance anti-corrosive additive package in Red Line oils, they are ideal for use in street-driven vehicles at extended drain intervals. Red Line recommends oil changes for engines that are in good condition and do not see frequent starts without warm-ups or short-trips at between 10,000 and 18,000 miles for gasoline engines, 10,000 and 12,000 miles for diesel engines, or every 12 months, whichever is shorter |
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