| KaCee |
Hey all...have a few questions....sorry for the lengthy post.
I have a unique situation where I don't own the vehicle yet....but will have the option of any trim level and it will be delivered in the next few weeks. I am trying to decide between prem/touring and navi/non-navi. This is the final deciding factor....do I have to replace the headunit or can I tap into the existing factory HU.....will it affect Navi (loosing voice) and does it make a difference between bose/non-bose with the addition of external amps.
Replacing the headunit and adding aftermarket amp/speakers:
Does anyone have a contact to custom fabricate a face plate for a single DIN install? I know it does not exist as a mass-produced product....but I want to get hooked up with someone who has done it once before. Anyone? Estimated Costs just for the plate? How does it attach to the dash....existing screw holes....or other? I am aware of the Navi voice issues with this setup and probably would either do without the voice or Navi altogether.
Using the existing headunit to power external amp/speakers/sub:
I was considering the following:
1)Bypass all existing factory external amps and factory wiring to speakers.
2)Assuming the existing factory harness is male, buy a female Metra harness (or similar) and a Metra male factory replica harness. Create a kind of "patch harness" that resides between the factory HU and the Factory harness. The patch harness would have all connections passed through except the speaker leads coming from the female replacement harness. I assume this is FL, FR, RL, and RR speaker leads....I assume there is not a seperate speaker lead from the headunit for the sub. Here is a pic to illustrate (this is one on my S2000)
3)Tap into the speaker leads from the male replacement harness coming from the head unit to a 4 channel line level converter.
4) Line level RCA's-fronts: split to a JL 300/4, rears: to a JL 250/1
5)Run new speaker wire accordingly and replace fronts with some seperates, rears with whatever, run off the 300/4, then add a sub off the 250/1.
Here are some more questions:
Anyone done this with the use of a two harnesses? I don't want to chop into the factory harness....need to be able to return to stock.Harness numbers? is there a male and female metra harness for the Acura?
Which is better to attempt this with....premium headunit or the Bose headunit on the touring model? I prefer the bose because of the CD changer....but would rather buy the premium PKG and put the extra $$$ toward some wheels. Tough call....need to better understand if there are "problems" with sound levels, etc. with one unit over the other.
Sound Quality? Differences between Bose and non-bose with an aftermarket amp/speaker setup through a quality line level converter. Any suggestions on a quality LLC?
Anyone have a pin layout for the factory harness? Need to know the layout to ensure I pass through all wires...especially if I go with Navi.
Lots of questions...need some help...much appreciated.
KaCee |
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| slackass |
| It is really going to come down to how much time and money you want to invest. The options are endless on what can be done. Scour thru the posts and you will see that people are going alot of different ways. Myself and mig scrapped the factory stuff and went all highend aftermarket. MDXtrous and willyiam kept the factory and added awesome screens and video. Bottom line. Use your imagination and have fun. |
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| KaCee |
It is really not the $$$ that I am worried about now....it is the options to keep the factory headunit...
I already have an Alpine 7894, JL 300/4, BA 6.5 separates, BA 6x9, and a JL10W3 in a box....It is just whether or not I want to install all of it with the factory HU or go with an aftermarket HU....not much interest in video either....so that helps on the expenditure side....
I just need to see how people are adding external amps....how is the quality? What HU do you have....etc. Alot of the posts don't have a lot of detail of the actual install. |
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| slackass |
you have an awesome list of equipment there and it would work great, installed properly. The only options on hooking up to the factory amp that I know of would be either use the speaker level inputs, not a big fan of this, or tap into the head somehow. I think MDXtrous can give you some info on that. His installer is going to try and tap the changer port or something like that. Unless you are sold on keeping the factory, I would put in that Alpine. I think the results would be outstanding.
I am using an Eclipse 7002 indash screen. I installed it in the factory location and had a trim panel made to fit around it. It was just a temp panel. I am going to try and make one that looks almost factory out of wood or fiberglass. The unit controls an Eclipse changer for cd's and I can hook up a PS2 for video. Check out my other post for all my current equipment. |
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| Zrelaxed |
Given I have the navi and didn't want to replace the stock head unit, I'm going to try another route...just today, I purchased online Audiocontrol's EQS. Its a six channel equalizer that includes speaker level inputs. After reading several reviews and talking to Audiocontrol's technicians, I'm expecting a very clean input to present to my amps.
I found the EQS for $255 at carstereotime.com
Alpine Amp 4x60
MTX Sub Amp 425x1
(2) Polk dB Subs 10's
Focal 165K's up front
Focal 165HC in back
Audiocontrol EQS
All will be installed on 8/20...results will follow |
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| Zrelaxed |
| by the way, the Audiocontrol EQS will work with Bose head units as well!! |
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| MDXtrous |
quote:
Originally posted by KaCee
I am trying to decide between prem/touring and navi/non-navi.
Definitely go with navi. I didn't know the full benefits until I owned one, and know for a fact that I'll never get a car without it. It's so useful when you're in a strange place at night, or when planning a trip. It dictates the directions for you, it's got thousands of "points of interest", phone directory that you can search by, etc... It's like using the microwave, can't go back after it...
Oh well, sorry that this was not the focus of the thread, but with Honda coming out with the voice-activated Navi, if the 2003 MDX gets it, it's even MORE worth it!! |
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| slackass |
| I keep forgetting about the navi since ours did not have it. If that is an option, I would go with it as well. Zrelaxed is on the right track I think. Using a high level signal from the Audio Control unit would clean it up rather nicely. |
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| KaCee |
quote:
Originally posted by Zrelaxed
Given I have the navi and didn't want to replace the stock head unit, I'm going to try another route...just today, I purchased online Audiocontrol's EQS. Its a six channel equalizer that includes speaker level inputs. After reading several reviews and talking to Audiocontrol's technicians, I'm expecting a very clean input to present to my amps.
Is this a 1/2 din EQ or a hide away unit like a parametric EQ? Have not though of this option...of course some amps now have high level inputs in addition to RCAs....can't help but think you get some noise. I will be very interested to see the install and hear comments...Can you post a dig pic of the unit?...or give me a link?
Where are you going to mount? Space under the headunit? How are you going to tap the speaker leads....don't tell me you are going to cut the factory harness...or piggy back the wires..... I have found the Metra harness numbers......the factory plug is female.....you can match a male aftermarket harness to a female aftermarket harness and leave the speaker leads on the female aftermarket harness unconnected to go to the EQ.....just plug the male end into the factory harness and the female end into the Headunit....and you are ready to rock.....Here are the numbers: Metra 70-1721 (male) from the stock harness to Metra 71-1721 (female), 71-1721 to the headunit. These run about $12 at my local installer.
The only thing I am unsure about is whether or not the factory stereo harness has the lead for the navi voice or if it is a separate feed.....if it is in the harness...you may have to add 1 extra wire to each Metra in the appropriate pinout position....not too hard to do....buy a 3rd harness....just need an ice pick to remove the extra wires from the 3rd harness and slide them into the 2 other harnesses.
Bose is OK????? I assume with the bose setup, there is the same level of signal....it is just when it gets to the factory amp that things get wacky.....I would assume then that if you tap the speaker leads at the headunit versus after the external amplification...you should be good......
OK...there are my install tips based upon some trial and error with my last honda.....always nice to be able to return to stock quickly...making the patch harness would take a hour or so of time....a little sodering and heat shrink wrap....but should be a nice plug and play setup.....Now .......go try it and tell me if it works :D
MDXtrous:
Tried out the Navi at the dealer yesterday....sweet....gotta have it. Nuff said. |
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| KaCee |
quote:
Originally posted by MDXtrous
KaCee,
Here is a solution to keep the navi voice after headunit replacement from the OdyClub:
http://www.odyclub.com/forums/showt...=&threadid=7411
MDXtrous
Looks very easy...wondering if I could mount the speaker in the space under the factory headunit area? gotta think about this one....Thanks for the info...keep you posted. |
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| Zrelaxed |
quote:
Originally posted by KaCee
Is this a 1/2 din EQ or a hide away unit like a parametric EQ? Have not though of this option...of course some amps now have high level inputs in addition to RCAs....can't help but think you get some noise. I will be very interested to see the install and hear comments...Can you post a dig pic of the unit?...or give me a link?
Where are you going to mount? Space under the headunit? How are you going to tap the speaker leads....don't tell me you are going to cut the factory harness...or piggy back the wires..... I have found the Metra harness numbers......the factory plug is female.....you can match a male aftermarket harness to a female aftermarket harness and leave the speaker leads on the female aftermarket harness unconnected to go to the EQ.....just plug the male end into the factory harness and the female end into the Headunit....and you are ready to rock.....Here are the numbers: Metra 70-1721 (male) from the stock harness to Metra 71-1721 (female), 71-1721 to the headunit. These run about $12 at my local installer.
The only thing I am unsure about is whether or not the factory stereo harness has the lead for the navi voice or if it is a separate feed.....if it is in the harness...you may have to add 1 extra wire to each Metra in the appropriate pinout position....not too hard to do....buy a 3rd harness....just need an ice pick to remove the extra wires from the 3rd harness and slide them into the 2 other harnesses.
Bose is OK????? I assume with the bose setup, there is the same level of signal....it is just when it gets to the factory amp that things get wacky.....I would assume then that if you tap the speaker leads at the headunit versus after the external amplification...you should be good......
OK...there are my install tips based upon some trial and error with my last honda.....always nice to be able to return to stock quickly...making the patch harness would take a hour or so of time....a little sodering and heat shrink wrap....but should be a nice plug and play setup.....Now .......go try it and tell me if it works :D
The audiocontrol EQS is a hide-away unit, about 9" square. It will fit nicely by my two amps in the headrest compartment (minus headrests). I have no idea on what the best option is for getting the sound out of the headunit. I didn't realize that the MDX base model had an external amp...given my concern for losing the navi voice, I figured I'd ask my installer for advice. While I'm fairly knowledgeable about the hardware, I know very little about installation... |
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| Curtsan |
Great questions, I wish I had some concrete answers, or at least opinions for you, but I like yourself am also waiting for my x, so just getting things lined up in advance.
I am debating the 'ol Bose headunit with external amps vs. aftermarket headunit/amps. One thing I did hear was very good was something called a PD4, it's essentially a very high quality line driver which bites into the bose output connector via a "cable link" and outputs 2 sets of RCA outs. The unit is fairly costly at $149 plus the cable link, but is apparently the best out there for getting RCA outs from a bose unit. Check it out at www.linkmeup.com, I called the sales team and they were very helpful. They tell me it keeps everything very clean....Good luck with the decision. |
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| KaCee |
quote:
Originally posted by Curtsan
...it's essentially a very high quality line driver which bites into the bose output connector via a "cable link" and outputs 2 sets of RCA outs. The unit is fairly costly at $149 plus the cable link, but is apparently the best out there for getting RCA outs from a bose unit. Check it out at www.linkmeup.com, I called the sales team and they were very helpful. They tell me it keeps everything very clean....Good luck with the decision.
Curtsan,
The link is down....I am very interested....can you check it out and see if you can get some more info? Much appreciated.
Info for all:
I have considered doing a silver paint treatment to all of my woodgrain trim to match the outside of the vehicle like seen here:
I am currently talking to my installer and he will get back to me about finish options....but basically the trim pieces run about $200 for the trim bezel around the navi/HU, L and R door switch pieces and the trim bezel around the shifter area. These four trim pieces are the only four that are definitely woodgrain....all others are black so I could do more pieces if it enhances the look.
I also thought I would buy all replacement pieces and then mothball the originals so I could put it back stock at a later date if needed.
My installer will then take the HU/Navi trim piece and glass over the bottom area, probably install a pocket to balance the look of the space, and then have a cutout for a single DIN headunit. Then he will custom finish all four of the pieces....I am thinking about a darker metallic look maybe....that is the fun of it....anything goes and I get rid of the fake woodgrain in the process. I'll keep everyone updated on my progress...no prices yet on the finishing....anxious to find out.
The more I think about things.....I think custom install with a new headunit is the way I will go....sounds like tapping into the factory headunit maybe difficult and still not sure about the sound quality.....so many questions.....so little money to blow on BS ideas:D |
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| MDX212z |
| I have a silver MDX with 2 JL Audio W7's in my car runnin 2 JL 1000/1 Amps to each woofer. The stuff yew want to run off yer factory amplifier wouldnt work only because it is not powerful enough. I have changed my speakers to Pioneer 6.5" for better sound (they sound much better than stock!). I have Pioneer TS-A1661 speakers as my replacements now. The MDX's speaker compartment only hold 6.5" speakers. To install 6-9 speakers would call for a custom fitting. To make my new speakers sound at their optimum performance......i have a 4/Channel Eclispe amplifier running to them so i have a nice crisp sound with perfect bass. Try this as an idea to use. Now, i highly doubt that you can change your Navigational Screen to a Single Din because that one screen is rigged to your radio and is also rigged to the airconditioning! Without it, the A'C will simply not work! As soon as i get pictures of my MDX up and running, i will be sure to notify you! |
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| KaCee |
quote:
Originally posted by MDX212z
The stuff yew want to run off yer factory amplifier wouldnt work only because it is not powerful enough. I have changed my speakers to Pioneer 6.5" for better sound (they sound much better than stock!). I have Pioneer TS-A1661 speakers as my replacements now. The MDX's speaker compartment only hold 6.5" speakers. To install 6-9 speakers would call for a custom fitting. To make my new speakers sound at their optimum performance......i have a 4/Channel Eclispe amplifier running to them so i have a nice crisp sound with perfect bass. Try this as an idea to use. Now, i highly doubt that you can change your Navigational Screen to a Single Din because that one screen is rigged to your radio and is also rigged to the airconditioning! Without it, the A'C will simply not work! As soon as i get pictures of my MDX up and running, i will be sure to notify you!
Not sure about your post here???
Just to clarify...If using the factory Headunit (which my understanding is that all of the amplification is external), I would tap the speaker outputs on the preamp side....in effect bypassing the factory amplified signal....first question...can this be done? If I tap the lead preamp....is it really a high-level signal? I will then run the speaker leads to some type of line level converter and then the converter's RCAs to my amp setup. I wouldn't try to run any of the setup off the factory amps...all aftermarket....just trying to figure out how to use the factory headunit as a preamp for my setup.
Secondly....man is your ride loud as hell or what...I had a 300/4 in my last ride with 6.5 seperates on the front channels and the rears bridged for a JL Stealthbox....more than enough for me...anyway...I would probably use the 300/4 to run speakers and pick up a 500/1 or 250/1 to run subs. I assume you have retained the factory headunit for your setup. Where did you tap the speaker leads and what type of converter did you use? How is the sound quality? or does your eclipse amp have speaker level inputs?
Third....wasn't aware of speaker sizes on the rear...thought I saw 6X9's....you are saying 6.5's? Either way a set of nice Coax's in the rear should do.
Fourth...I wouldn't change my navi screen...In the event that I decided to change out the factory headunit for an aftermarket headunit (thereby negating all the issues above with RCA output options), I would leave the Navi alone...they are entirely seperate units with the exception of the navi voice....which can be dealt with seperately.
Can you give me some more details on your install....I really want to see how you are integrating the amps/speakers/subs into the factory headunit....more so, I would really like to hear if you are pleased about the sound quality once it is all finished. |
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| MDX212z |
| Hey, well to all of your questions i have the answers. I have a whole sperate wiring converter, and now i have this all run from power from the radio and the Trip Computer (i dont have Navi). If you were to get the Navi you would definately be able to run the same setup for any audio sytem as i have because both radio and even trip computer have enough signal and power to run it. Now here's some advice: If you are goingto run an amp for your speakers, put it under the pasengers seat. It works just fine there and there is no need to worry about if someone willl kick it or not. Now the MDX speakers are 6.5". Im positive, and if you wanted 6-9 you would have to gutt out the speaker-hole a little larger. Where vere you are getting your audio system installed get a wire converter. This connects to your stock wiring, and its also very cheap! Now, if k were you i wouldnt change the stock Headunit. Only because the signal is fine, the radio is screwed into the Navi also known as a Double Din. If you get some power from the Navi Screen you will be fine. With other Subwoofers in the car, take out the factory Alpine Subwoofer which is located on the rear of the car to the right. It's only a waste, so sell it on eBay or somthing! If you need any more help, let me kniow and i will be glad to help you. |
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| KaCee |
| What brand of line level converter are you using? How does it sound...any noise from the converter? are you tapping the speaker leads before or after the factory amp? did you chop the factory harness for the speaker leads? any problems tuning the setup...volume levels/noise etc. |
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| Kanuck |
| What external amp are you guys talking about? I didn't try to remove the head unit yet on my Base MDX but I thought the only external amp in the car was the sub amp in the back. Are you talking about the Alpine or the Bose head unit? If there is a separate amp, where is it located?:confused: |
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| KaCee |
I'll be working with a Bose unit...my understanding is that the headunit has speaker leads to an external amp....external amp to the speakers....If you want to tap the speaker leads...where do you do it??? that's my question....
On the base unit...if there is not an external amp for the main speakers....no problem...tap the leads out of the headunit and put into a line level converter and go from there... |
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| Kanuck |
| I thought I had read all the threads about audio installs and this is the first time I hear about a separate amp for the speakers. Anyway, if that's the case, why would you consider tapping after the amp? It would just make more sense to put the line output converter right after the head unit. The noise introduced by the converter is bad enough, you certainly don't want to add the amp noise... |
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| Curtsan |
Sorry for the delay in replying.
Try this site for the Power driver unit.
http://WWW.LINKMEUP.COM/
I just went there and also got there phone number
of 800-858-2541. They were super helpful and strongly
recommended that the converter be put right after the head unit.
They knew all about this MDX system, and were confident that there would be no noise. due to the variable adjustments on the converter to match output level and inout sensitivity of amps. Just needs a bit of tweaking to get the "balance" point just right.
give them a call and talk to them directly and see what you think... |
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| KaCee |
quote:
Originally posted by Curtsan
Sorry for the delay in replying.
Try this site for the Power driver unit.
http://WWW.LINKMEUP.COM/
I just went there and also got there phone number
of 800-858-2541. They were super helpful and strongly
recommended that the converter be put right after the head unit.
They knew all about this MDX system, and were confident that there would be no noise. due to the variable adjustments on the converter to match output level and inout sensitivity of amps. Just needs a bit of tweaking to get the "balance" point just right.
give them a call and talk to them directly and see what you think...
OK, I'm getting a warm fuzzy now...talked to them as well...basically this unit is a plug-n-play solution when combined with the custom wiring harness. Basically the wiring harness is pre-fabbed to sit between the stock wiring harness and the factory headunit....it then splits out certain wires to the PD-4....then the PD-4 bumps the 1-1.5 v signal up to 3-4v and then has a set of RCA's out to your amp...amp to speakers etc.
Guy says no problem with noise....Do I believe him???? Total set up ~$200...So 200 clams to see if the quality stinks or what....one thing to be said....this is plug-n-play (minus a few adjustments and an amp install + new wiring to speakers etc.) In my original post this wiring harness was my primary concern...also, this is the first type of pre-amp signal booster I have seen....typically you have a high-level signal and you want to cut the voltage. Interesting.......Now I just need to decided....keep factory Headunit (SW controls and Navi voice) or change the headunit and put in my Alpine MP3 player and deal with a single DIN face place (plus a SWI-X for the SW controls and something creative for the Navi voice). Any thoughts on the factory bose headunit....functions OK, disc advance etc? |
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| MDX212z |
| Now here, Kanuck, you have set an array of questions that can be easily answered. The MDX comes with the Alpine setup (Alpine speakers, subwoofer, Navigational Screen,etc.) So, i have kept my headunit stock for now. Now, there is an amp that puts out power for the subwoofer, and also puts out power for the speakers. Since the factory headunit's amplifier powers all of the stock audio, most people will change the factory headunit only because the factory headunit wont send enough signal to anything above stock specifications. Please let me know if you have any questions. |
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| slash007 |
| i had my four speakers and tweeter changed out and i added a five channel amp to push them and the sub while keeping the bose hu. i also used audio control's eql and the sound is very clean. I am now changing out the bose for an aftermarket hu, so if any is interested in buying the eql, check out the classifieds for details. |
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| KaCee |
quote:
Other member asked in PM:
I read one of your comments about modifying the Metra harness to add wires for Navi. You mentioned something about using an ice pick to pull out wires from a spare harness to insert them in the pin position needed. My question is: the connectors at the end of each wire are different for Male versus Female. Can both be removed easily? How do you push them back down in position? Will it make a solid connection or is the connector a little losse once you remove it from a harness?
First off...my current understanding is that the navi wiring is not part of the main harness that plugs into the back of the headunit....it is a second separate plug. I cannot get anyone to confirm this for me though. If that is the case, the navi is on a separate female harness...just not sure if you can buy a patch harness to then run a navi-voice solution. In other words....factory harness to patch harness...patch harness to Alpine (or other) converter for navi voice. I think in this case, without a metra-type harness, you would have to tap into the factory wiring harness and do a bit of soldering....makes me cringe a bit....can never go back to stock....might void warranty on navi if you had a problem and they were able to trace it to your mod.
Second scenario....if the navi wiring is part of the main harness....my commentsi the previous post were to create a "patch harness" in between the headunit and factory harness. This can be done to add an aftermarket headunit or to split out the speaker leads on the factory headunit for the addition of an aftermarket amp setup. On the Metra harness setup...they typically will not have the "extra" wires...just the base honda setup....good example...I did this type of harness setup on my S2000...it has hardwired dash controls that I wanted to interface with a PAC SWI-X infrared repeater (probably the same thing for the steering wheel controls on the MDX)...it had a single wire coming from the dash into the main factory headunit harness. I got my hands on a pinout schematic and was able to figure out which wire needed to be "passed through" my new patch harness. I bought one extra harness, used an icepick to remove two extra wires, put one wire in the male end and one in the female end of the patch harness....wire together and there you have it....the wire is added to the patch harness. These extra wires are easy to remove....just a little patience is needed not to damage....the pin on the end of the wire has a little clip...go from the pin side of the harness, raise the little clip up against the pin and gently pull on the other end of the wire till it comes out the back of the harness (wire side of the harness). Putting it in the new harness is simply pushing it in the back side of the new harness until it clicks in place...might need to push it in with a small screwdriver....just as good as if it was done at the factory...matter in fact, the Metra harnesses are made with the extra wiring slots to accomodate this type of mod.
If the navi-voice is part of the main harness you can use this approach....I'm guessing the steering wheel controls are a single wire as well coming into the harness. So you might have to do it twice. This type of "patch harness" creates a pure plug-n-play type of setup....good thing is....pop the headunit, unplug the harness, remove the evidence and go back to 100% stock in a matter of minutes.
Do me a favor here.....I would gladly share my (our) install info with the rest....just need to figure out a few details...Can you help me on the wiring setup...Do you have a bose or non-bose setup? Can you confirm if there are two harnesses on the back of the headunit (i'm interested in the Bose setup specifically). That will clear up issue #1.
Second issue...just need to post to the board and ask if anyone can give the pinout for the harness specifically labeling the location and purpose of each wire in the factory harness. If I have that information, I will document with pics the harness fabrication for adding an aftermarket HU or keeping the existing HU and adding amps.
Can anyone help with the above questions?---specifically the pinout for the harness. |
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| Kanuck |
| KaCee, I don't have my Service Manual with me so I'll have to answer all your questions about pinout later but I can confirm that the main harness has 4 pins for the Navigation unit. So I will try your scenario #2 and post some pics when I'm done. You make it sound easy so I can't wait to try it later...:) |
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| Kanuck |
| Forgot to mention I have a Base system, not Bose. Anyway, the Service Manual has the wiring and pinout for both. I'll post it later. |
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| Kanuck |
KaCee, this should answer most of your questions:
first, the pin assignments: |
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| Kanuck |
| This is the pinout for the Bose unit: |
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| Kanuck |
| pinout for the Base (non-Bose) head unit: |
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| KaCee |
quote:
Originally posted by Kanuck
KaCee, this should answer most of your questions:
first, the pin assignments:
What is the harness to the left of this one on the schematic?....do you have the pinout for it as well?
thanks |
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| Kanuck |
| I knew you were going to ask that...;) I'm looking at the service manual but can't figure out what it's used for. There is nothing in the "Stereo" section about it. The wheel controls are on pin 3 so it's gotta be something else. I'll let you know... |
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| Kanuck |
That 2nd port must be for expansion. I couldn't find anything about it in the doc. Anyway, I'm done with my mods to the two harnesses that I will use. I used Scosche HA08B and HA08RB which are the same as Metra 71-1721 and 70-1721. I actually needed two of each to wire all the pins. If Buyloud could only ship my JL 300/4 then I could finish the job. :3:
Here is what the harness looks like: |
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| KaCee |
| looks like you split out the speaker leads...going to a line level converter I assume? |
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| Kanuck |
yes, one set will go to the line converter and the other set will take the speaker wires coming out of the amp.
notice that i took out the pins for the rear speakers since i'm only installing speakers in front. i never liked having speakers in the back because people sitting there always complain about the music being too loud. i've already removed the rear speakers and installed some Focal 165's in front with the factory amp and it sounds very good and loud.
by disabling the rear speakers, i'm also disabling the factory sub amp which is ok since i'll be installing my own sub in a traditional box behind the third row.
the only thing i'm not sure about is how to cut the power to the factory sub amp? i have a choice between the remote lead and the actual power wire but both are "shared" with the head unit so i'm not sure where to disconnect. i really don't feel like gutting the back of the car to gain access to the amp. also, i'm doing all this so i can restore the factory setup at some point so cutting wires is out of the question.
has anyone disabled the factory sub amp who would like to share their experience here? |
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| KaCee |
I assume you are going to use the front channels of the 300/4 for the focals and bridge the rears for a sub. I had this same amp in my S2000....fronts to some boston 6.5 components and the rear bridged to a JL 10W3 stealthbox. I was very pleased. I think for the time being, I will build a partial box and just set the JL stealthbox inside it....something just to hold it in place...it is pretty much rectangular anyway....eventually, I will have a box custom made for the rear area and try to salvage some $$$ out of the stealthbox.
Another question for you...I had planned on running all new wires to my speakers/sub from the amp....any concerns about running that kind of power through the factory wiring. I'm guessing the factory wiring is 20 gauge....I would probably install at least 16 gauge and maybe 14 depending on the length of the run....I've heard the term "vapor wire"...which is exactly what will happen if you run a ton of juice through this gauge wire.....question is....how much is too much? Other concern...do you loose some sound quality with the smaller wires....I'm guessing so. Any thoughts on wiring size? |
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| Kanuck |
That's an interesting question. We're not talking about a lot of power though. 75 Watts for each speaker is more than I need. You can't really play door speakers loud because of the kind of enclosure they are in. The door will eventually rattle if you play too loud. I will compensate with the sub so I don't think the wire gauge will be an issue.
Also, you must consider this: I have NEVER seen shops like Circuit City, 6th Ave or other chains replace speaker wire. They always connect to the original. It's kind of ridiculous if you think about it: They sell people the top-of-the-line StreetWires cables to run throughout the car but the final connection is made to the factory wires.:rolleyes:
Why? Because running speaker wire through a door is a nightmare. For most applications, the factory wire will be fine. |
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| R Stevens |
KaCee,
For what its worth - the install being done on my X right now replaced the factory speaker wire with 16 guage for each of the door speakers and tweeters and 12 guage for the sub. They were able to fish the new wire through the factory rubber/plastic conduit (name??) in the door and not drill any additional holes. |
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| slackass |
| I replaced mine as well. I have a little over 100 watts running to my front components and about 600 watts to my sub. I have 16 awg. run for the front and 12 awg for the sub as well. I would agree that if you stay below 100 watts, you should be ok with factory wiring. |
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| TheyCallMeBruce |
quote:
Originally posted by Kanuck
the only thing i'm not sure about is how to cut the power to the factory sub amp? i have a choice between the remote lead and the actual power wire but both are "shared" with the head unit so i'm not sure where to disconnect. i really don't feel like gutting the back of the car to gain access to the amp. also, i'm doing all this so i can restore the factory setup at some point so cutting wires is out of the question.
has anyone disabled the factory sub amp who would like to share their experience here?
You don't need to gut the rear section of the car just to disconnect the rear amp (only to remove the rear amp, as the mounting bolts are behind the plastic rear quarter panel trim). Remove the OEM sub and with a flashlight you will see the amp just forward of the sub and the 2 or 3 harness connectors attached to it. Just disconnect these and that's all you have to do. You will also be disconnecting the overhead twiddler, but I personally think that is a plus. A full range 2 inch speaker can't possibly be good news. However, if you want the twiddler to continue functioning, don't disconnect the amp connections. Instead, disconnect the harness attached to the sub itself and the amp will continue to power the twiddler. |
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| Kanuck |
| thanks for the tip. i have a base MDX (no twiddler) so i hope the amp is positioned the same way. |
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| jedge78 |
| does anyone know if the rear factory amplifier in the 02 base MDX powers the reaer door speakers and the sub, or just the sub? |
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| pacpal1 |
To anyone considering retention of the Bose head unit:
1) You don't need a line output converter...you may tap the head unit's low level output and feed the signal directly into an aftermarket amp (you have to connect female RCAs to the stranded wire output of the head unit). This can be done either directly behind the head unit (probably the best signal) or near the front Bose amp (this is where I tapped it)).
2) See the link it started titled "Limitations of the Bose Head Unit". I've installed top notch speakers (a/d/s), signal processor (Audio Control) and amplifiers (a/d/s). I, like many of you, wanted to retain the Bose head unit to retain the look and feel of the dash. However, the sound I'm experiencing now is of very poor quality. I'm not an amateur at this either...I've installed many systems on other cars I've owned...although I've never attempted to retain a factory head unit. My only possible error is that I tapped the head unit signal near the front amp and not just as it exits the head unit. I will soon try tapping the Bose head unit signal as close to the head unit as possible in a last ditch effort to get a good signal from the Bose head unit. Nevertheless, I'm not hopeful this will improve the situation and am almost entirely convinced that the head unit's signal is of VERY low quality throughout the entire audible spectrum of sound. I hate to knock on you guys, but can't believe that so many other people have retained the Bose head unit, installed high quality aftermarket speakers and amps without complaining about the sound quality...I can only assume that these people have never heard what a proper high quality mobile stereo system sounds like...beleive me, you can get perfect sound in a car....I just don't think you can by retaining the Bose head unit.
CAN ANY EXPERIENCED AUDIOPHILE ENGAGED IN THIS DISCUSSION STATE THAT THEY (personally...not their "installer") TAPPED THE HEAD UNIT SIGNAL JUST BEHIND THE HEAD UNIT (note that I tapped at the front amp) AND FOUND THE SIGNAL TO BE VERY HIGH QUALITY? I think the chances of this are low...the question I'm pondering is: "How much signal degredation am I experiencing because my head unit is sending its signal through three feet of factory installed stranded wire prior to transition into the RCA cables that I installed". |
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| R Stevens |
quote:
Originally posted by jedge78
does anyone know if the rear factory amplifier in the 02 base MDX powers the reaer door speakers and the sub, or just the sub?
I don't know about the 02 base model, but in the 02 touring model the rear amp powers the sub and the twiddlers in the rear ceiling. |
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| AikiMDX |
quote:
Originally posted by pacpal1
To anyone considering retention of the Bose head unit:
...
2) See the link it started titled "Limitations of the Bose Head Unit". I've installed top notch speakers (a/d/s), signal processor (Audio Control) and amplifiers (a/d/s). I, like many of you, wanted to retain the Bose head unit to retain the look and feel of the dash. However, the sound I'm experiencing now is of very poor quality. I'm not an amateur at this either...I've installed many systems on other cars I've owned...although I've never attempted to retain a factory head unit. My only possible error is that I tapped the head unit signal near the front amp and not just as it exits the head unit. I will soon try tapping the Bose head unit signal as close to the head unit as possible in a last ditch effort to get a good signal from the Bose head unit. Nevertheless, I'm not hopeful this will improve the situation and am almost entirely convinced that the head unit's signal is of VERY low quality throughout the entire audible spectrum of sound. I hate to knock on you guys, but can't believe that so many other people have retained the Bose head unit, installed high quality aftermarket speakers and amps without complaining about the sound quality...I can only assume that these people have never heard what a proper high quality mobile stereo system sounds like...beleive me, you can get perfect sound in a car....I just don't think you can by retaining the Bose head unit.
What you said about other people seems a bit harsh, but to some extent I have to agree with you on the sound quality of the head unit. Even with similar equipment in my X compared to my last vehicle, the sound quality is not quite there. Would I call it "low quality"? No. Probably closer to pretty good. Are there lots of better sounding head units out there, absolutely. For me, the difference in sound quality vs the loss of functionality (I have the RES setup) made it worthwhile to keep the head unit as is. I have pretty high standards when it comes to car audio and hearing the coloration does bother me, just not enough to swap it out. As my installer put it, he is "pretty happy" with how it all turned out. I know you didn't want to hear what our installers had to say, but mine was tapped behind the head unit, so I doubt you will find much improvement by changing where you tap in. |
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| pacpal1 |
Sorry...I didn't mean to be harsh to any fellow posters. I'm only hoping to get final confirmation that I haven't missed anything in my own install.
In addition, my concerns should let anyone new to this site fully understand the limitations of only swapping out the Bose amps and speakers. In fact, I'd argue that I'm doing everyone reading these posts a big favor. I've used top quality equipment, nevertheless, I've been very disappointed with the results of my install...and I'm not going to pat myself on the back and say I've got great results from swapping out speakers and amps if that's not the case...that would only lead to the next guy also being disappointed.
In fact, if I had to do it all over again, I might scale back my plans (by installing cheaper equipment or only swapping out the speakers) or not bother with this project at all. I'm now faced with being in the unfortunate position of figuring out how to 1) make a custom faceplate adapter for a DIN chasis aftermarket head unit (or entrust this task to an installer which will cause me to lose control over the project's quality) and 2) perform further research to ensure that my steering wheel remote is adaptable to my choice of aftermarket head unit (probably an Alpine).
As always, any helpful hints or observations from other posters would be greatly appreciated! |
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| sstclairs |
| I installed Focal Poly Polykevlar components in the front, Focal Access coaxaials in the rears - totally happy with both. Incredible imaging, bass, treble. Installed a/d/s sub - not so sure that this provides optimal bass. |
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| AikiMDX |
quote:
Originally posted by pacpal1
Sorry...I didn't mean to be harsh to any fellow posters. I'm only hoping to get final confirmation that I haven't missed anything in my own install.
In addition, my concerns should let anyone new to this site fully understand the limitations of only swapping out the Bose amps and speakers. In fact, I'd argue that I'm doing everyone reading these posts a big favor. I've used top quality equipment, nevertheless, I've been very disappointed with the results of my install...and I'm not going to pat myself on the back and say I've got great results from swapping out speakers and amps if that's not the case...that would only lead to the next guy also being disappointed.
In fact, if I had to do it all over again, I might scale back my plans (by installing cheaper equipment or only swapping out the speakers) or not bother with this project at all. I'm now faced with being in the unfortunate position of figuring out how to 1) make a custom faceplate adapter for a DIN chasis aftermarket head unit (or entrust this task to an installer which will cause me to lose control over the project's quality) and 2) perform further research to ensure that my steering wheel remote is adaptable to my choice of aftermarket head unit (probably an Alpine).
As always, any helpful hints or observations from other posters would be greatly appreciated!
I agree that discourse on the audio system is always good and appreciated :4: . The broader the perspective, the better people can make their own decisions.
Another member had a custom DIN adapter made that looked really nice. Here is the pic I grabbed some time ago. I don't recall who the original poster was.
Good luck. |
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| imraw |
If anyone knows who the original poster was for this vehicle for the DIN mount please let me know. That looks soooooo sweet and matches great. I need to get that head unit out of there.
Thanks |
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