| tigmd99 |
[Mod note: this thread was split from a seperate thread. The primary topic of this thread is noted below].
Hey all,
Again, i have to respond to weird (or just plain bias) statements.
[Mod's snip for context]
Acura has only one model?? You do realize that the MDX is an EXACT duplicate of the Honda minivan underneath the exterior panels, right?? A more correct way of saying is that Honda/Acura has ONE MINIVAN platform. Toyota has a very good history of making SUVs/trucks...they know how to make a SUV!
Thanks. |
|
|
| msu79gt82 |
quote:
Originally posted by tigmd99
You do realize that the MDX is an EXACT duplicate of the Honda minivan underneath the exterior panels, right??
Hey tig you do know that the GX470 is a EXACT duplicate of the Toyota RAV4 beneath the quarterpanels, right?:rolleyes:
My statement is just as accurate as yours! |
|
|
| tigmd99 |
Msu,
I see that your knowledge about cars/SUVs is very limited...isn't that why you resort to just idiotic comments??
How is the GX470 anything like the RAV4?? Ok...that's accurate!
Have you read up on your MDX lately?? I have! Because, at one time, i did consider the MDX. It is a great SUV in it's price range...no doubt about it. It is the best SUV-cross-over out there right now. However, personally, i do some off-roading myself...therefore, i did not buy it.
If you even bother to read my posts above, i have no interest in the GX470. I bought myself a 2002 4Runner Limited 4x4. Why? Because i got it at such a bargain (being that the '03 is about to be release) and it is a vehicle that is proven to be rugged, reliable, and with great resale value. And i do have a "vicpai-syndrome" in that i prefer skinny SUVs (better for parking and off-roading). In addition, it provides more comfort than i ever need. It is dead quiet inside for such an angular vehicle.
Thanks for your comments....
:rolleyes: |
|
|
| tigmd99 |
Msu,
Just to show you that i do off-road, here is a pic from last weekend. My 4Runner is still in the break-in period. This pic shows it crossing a ditch. Yes, your MDX can cross it too because of the VTM-LOCK feature.
http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/e3a5...c.e6b9A3AGpTR2n
Thanks. |
|
|
| tigmd99 |
Hey all,
As i have stated in other threads, consider me as a troll. In fact, i am a member of another Honda forum. I am also a member of one Toyota forum. Basically, i surf through these forums and state my ideas/arguments. Why?? Because i believe i know a lot about cars, esp. SUVs, and i love a good automotive argument.
Again, i never criticize the MDX for what it is. You can read my above statements about the advantages of the MDX.
If you can beat me at my own game (that is, make a good argument), i will shut up. As you can see, this is not the case.
Thanks.:D |
|
|
| msu79gt82 |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by tigmd99
You do realize that the MDX is an EXACT duplicate of the Honda minivan underneath the exterior panels, right??
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It was YOU who first stated the comment that I have once again reproduced. Of course my sarcastic tongue-in-cheek comparison of the GX470 to the RAV4 is ridiculous; so is your comment. Your knowledge of minivans and SUVs must be somewhat limited if you think the Odessy and the MDX are EXACT (your quote and your emphasis added!!!) duplicates.
By the way I love Toyotas and I own a RAV4:1: |
|
|
| msu79gt82 |
quote:
Originally posted by tigmd99
If you can beat me at my own game (that is, make a good argument), i will shut up.
You are playing a game that you made up, by rules you created, and a game that only you can win. In your game the MDX has lost and can never measure up to the vehicles that you have predetermined must win.
You are correct that we will not be able to beat you at YOUR OWN game.
However the MDX did win the fair competition for my money between the BMW the MB the Sequoia the LX470 and the Land Cruiser; the MDX won fair and square; a competition the GX470 would never have had a chance in.
Face it, not everyone has your tastes in vehicles. I will never even consider the current version of the GX470, the LX470, or the Land Cruiser - I do NOT like them; money was not the issue! |
|
|
| tigmd99 |
MSU,
Apparently, you really do NOT know your MDX too well! Man, read up on it!
Where do you think the MDX came from?? You think it is a brand-new SUV from the ground up??
Do you think that your suspension is any different than the Honda minivan??? It is NOT! I have checked this with my very own eyes! And according to HONDA literature, it is the same!
Have you crawled up under an MDX and the Honda minivan??? I have! It has the same side rails and crossmembers!
Tongue-in-cheek or not, i KNOW what i am talking about! How about you??
SHOW ME THAT I AM WRONG ABOUT THE MDX! SOME PROOF PLEASE!
Thanks. |
|
|
| srpbep |
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by tigmd99
You do realize that the MDX is an EXACT duplicate of the Honda minivan underneath the exterior panels, right??
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tigmd99,
Please humor me because I apparently am very confused. I thought that there were a couple of minor differences between the MDX and the Odyssey:
Engine: Thought they were slightly different? If not, why are the specs different? I sure hope Acura didn't tell me to use Premium just to make me feel better 'cause if that is the case I wouldn't be happy.
Transmission: Thought they were different. I know the MDX spec said it was a 5-speed or some such and I thought that the Ody was a 4-speed.
I thought your suggestion about looking underneath was a good one so I crawled under both our MDX and my neighbors Odyssey. They did look a little different to my eyes so maybe you can help me out:
On the MDX there is a long tubular thing going from the transmission to the back of the vehicle somewhere but I couldn't find one on the Ody. My neighbor explained that it was a "drive shaft" but didn't think the Ody had one. Am I looking at the wrong year Ody?
Found the end of the long thing coming out of the transmission on our MDX. It is a box at the back that looks like it is bolted in. Again, I looked hard for one on the Ody but couldn't find it. Am I looking in the wrong place?
This box on the back of our MDX has more parts going to the rear wheels. When I look at the Ody, it really does appear that it has a different setup. What am I missing?
Oh, forgot to mention, I was looking at an Ody LX. My neighbor explained that there is a different Ody model called the EX. Is it possible that you were looking at an EX while I was looking at an LX and that is why there are some differences?
And I think that the wheels may have been somewhat smaller on the Ody but I didn't measure them [just seemed smaller]. Then again, this could be an LX vs. EX thing.
When you get a chance, could you please help me out here 'cause I am sure that I am missing something.
Thanks in advance :confused: |
|
|
| tvfromhouston |
quote:
Originally posted by tigmd99
Hey all,
Again, i have to respond to weird (or just plain bias) statements.
TVFROMHOUSTON:
1. True, your 3rd row seat design is great.
2. Fuel economy is better...again, true...again, not too fair to compare V8 power to a V6! (No sh@t, the V6 will be better!)
3. Resale value?? That is VERY debatable...because most (if not all) Lexus/Toyota SUVs have AMAZING resale value...even my Toyota 4Runner has excellent resale, bettering most other SUVs!
4. Firmer suspension?? Again, doubt it. GX470 will have Adaptive suspension, which you can MANUALLY tune to sport or comfort (4 levels). Also, not everyone likes a firm suspension.
5. Acura name will never be equal to Lexus right now in terms of prestige...service may be equal, but the name is not.
6. No comment.
7. Maybe true...but remind you that the MDX in 2001 had more than enough problems/complaints. The LS430, in its FIRST year, had the LEAST problem of ANY car on the planet (according to JD Powers)! Not likely that Lexus will drop the ball with the GX470.
8. Safer?? Let's wait on that....please remember that the GX470 will have SIDE CURTAIN Airbags! MDX does not.
Acura has only one model?? You do realize that the MDX is an EXACT duplicate of the Honda minivan underneath the exterior panels, right?? A more correct way of saying is that Honda/Acura has ONE MINIVAN platform. Toyota has a very good history of making SUVs/trucks...they know how to make a SUV!
Thanks.
Thanks for the reply. It looks like the only disagreement we have is the image between Acura and Lexus, all the otherones you either agree with me or are debatable because we dont have the real thing yet.
In any event, I think you made a good choice in the 4runner, as it is an excellent SUV.
However, getting back to the debate. If Lexus manages to build an exact replica of the MDX and rebadge it as a Lexus and sell it at the same price as the MDX, I have no doubt that most people will buy the Lexus. But welcome to the real world buddy. No manufacturer has made an SUV that can match up to the MDX at its price yet. Lexus already has a car in the price range of the MDX, and its called the RX300. Which is far inferior to the MDX.
Remember, everyone can build a great vehicle, but not everyone can build a great vehicle that people can afford. This is why Honda is better than Toyota, it can build vehicles that are comparable, yet more affordable. Think about it grasshopper! |
|
|
| tigmd99 |
Hey all,
Now, we're getting somewhere!
Ok, first for SRPBEP, what you're mainly describing (i think) is the 4wd system of the MDX. The Odessey is ONLY front-wheel drive. Therefore, the "driveshaft" that you speak of is the driveshaft that transfer power to the rear wheels. The "box" on the rear axle contains the "multi-plate clutch" to send power/torque to the rear wheels. Again, the Odessey does NOT have this, as it is ONLY 2WD (front wheel drive).
As for the engine, yes, you are right, there are apparently some minor differences. However, i still believe it is the same engine with slightly different tuning. In fact, not long ago, i posted in the "General" section that the TORQUE CURVE in the PILOT brochure shows that it has MORE torque at low RPM than the MDX's brochure's torque curve. Is this possible?? I don't know...you have to find that thread. Pilot/Odessey's engine does use regular fuel vs. premium fuel for MDX.
As for the transmission, the new Odessey (2002) uses the same tranny as the MDX (which is 5-speed automatic tranny). It was just lagging behind MDX's technology in this sense.
What i was talking about above is that the STRUCTURE/BODY of MDX and Odessey is same, with only minor cosmetic differences. With the recent changes to the '02 Odessey, they now have almost the same powertrain too! Again, the Odessey is ONLY 2wd.
TVFROMHOUSTON, i think you are correct. I NEVER doubted the value of the MDX in ITS CLASS. It is the best in its class, bar none. However, if you carefully read the above posts, this is about how well it compares to the GX470. It is about how well the MDX compares to SUVs in more expensive classes.
Folks, MDX is an excellent value in its class. Please don't let my ramblings cloud your minds. This thread is about something else.
If i had 40 grand to spend, and i don't off-road often, i would spend it on the MDX (or maybe the Sequoia, but it is too big for me and kind of expensive for the 4x4 limited model).
As far as the debate about Lexus vs. Acura, i think that each company has a different philosophy. Acura caters more to people who are looking for "bargain luxury" with good performance (thanks to great engine technology). Lexus tends to be more of a Mercedes-fighter, more luxury oriented. Most Lexus cars have ton's of high-quality materials and luxury. They are not the fastest nor most powerful (except maybe the GS430). Yeah, you're right about the MDX being an excellent value.
TVFROMHOUSTON, mind you, that RX300 are still getting excellent sales...so, some people may prefer to be sitting in a luxurious interior than have tons of space. Comparable in what sense?? Luxury?? RX300 has the MDX beat. Sportiness/roominess?? MDX is better. So, you see Daniel-son, people may prefer one over the other...some people may say that the RX300 is the best luxury SUV in its class. Can you deny that claim??
Thanks,
Grasshopper. |
|
|
| srpbep |
quote:
tigmd99 wrote:
... Again, i never criticize the MDX for what it is. You can read my above statements about the advantages of the MDX.
If you can beat me at my own game (that is, make a good argument), i will shut up. As you can see, this is not the case.
tigmd99,
Some have suggested that your "game is rigged" and now I must concur. You seem confortable making "sweeping statements" and claiming them to be absolute truths. I couldn't help but play with you. You claimed [and I quote]:
" ... You do realize that the MDX is an EXACT duplicate of the Honda minivan underneath the exterior panels, right?? ...".
I then submitted a short list of differences which you then acknowledged explaining "... What i was talking about above is that the STRUCTURE/BODY of MDX and Odessey is same ... ". This seems to suggest that we misunderstood. The reality is that you misspoke and when called on it decided to restate your position without so much as a "maybe I exagerated a little ...".
Now let's test your integrity!! I think you promised us that "If you can beat me at my own game (that is, make a good argument), i will shut up.
I believe you have agreed the MDX and Ody are different!! Being somewhat of a civilized person, I won't request that you cease to post [sounds excessive to me] but I will suggest that you modify your future posting to say what you believe to be true and make sincere efforts to be accurate. Assuming integrity on your part, I believe you will attempt to do this. Will be interesting to see to what extent you are able to do this.
:rolleyes: |
|
|
| bareyb |
quote:
Originally posted by srpbep
Now let's test your integrity!! I think you promised us that "If you can beat me at my own game (that is, make a good argument), i will shut up.
That whole "pretend to be confused about the four wheel drive components" thing was cute, but I wouldn't exactly say you "beat him" at his own game. I think most folks understood what he meant by his statement about them being the same under the skin. I really didn't need for him to explain that "this was his opinion" or that EXACT was a figure of speech... Now. I don't personally care much for these types of comparisons either, but I can't help but notice some of you who are so offended were happy to jump on the "ES300 is EXACTLY like a Camry" bandwagon the other day... [cough-hypocrisy-cough] :D
As to sweeping statements... Let he who is without sin cast the first stone... Of course people make sweeping statements. Just about EVERYONE on this site (or any other "enthusiast" site) does the same thing. In point of fact, most all of his counterpoints were in response to "sweeping statements stated as facts" by the previous poster, i.e. "the MDX beats the RX300 hands down", Acura is just as prestigeous a name as Lexus, etc. etc. etc. I notice none of the MDX owners had a problem with those sweeping statements... ;)
The MDX is not the best SUV on the planet. NONE of them are. Which one's better? The answer is neither and both. Depending on what your priorities are. |
|
|
| DaleB |
I am probably a big fish to be jumping in here, but it is a common fact that the MDX is based on the Odyssey platform.
Of course, the MDX has reinforced some body structure, added additional insulation points between the subchassis for the drivetrain and the body.
The suspension was redesigned in concert with the increase in suspension travel and the need for more ground clearance and ride characteristics to meet light to moderate off road travel.
Additional drive train components, like the transfer assembly, 2 part drive shaft, VTM-4, 2 additional half shaft assemblies, additional control systems, etc.
Yes, they share similar engine and 5 speed transmissions.
Otherwise they are the same :rolleyes: |
|
|
| tigmd99 |
Hey all,
I guess i realized NOW how numbminded some of you are! Geez, my 4-year nephew even knows that the Odessey is 2wd and MDX is 4wd...i did NOT think that some of you would pick on that! No freaking sh@t one is 2wd and the other is 4wd!
SRPBEP, thank goodness you were playing a game, because i was laughing my butt off while replying because you clearly showed you ignorance! Good that you have more brain power than that!
I don't think i have gone back on anything i have said. i will REPEAT again, that under the skin, the MDX and Odessey are alike!
Some say that the MDX has a "modified" suspension?? Well, according to my naked eye, they are the same. In addition, if you read the CANADIAN ACURA website, you will see that both suspension have the same description. IN FACT, the Odessey may have slightly MORE suspension travel than the MDX! Read it for yourself! I suspect this is due to a thicker anti-roll bar on the MDX (thus, decreasing articulation, but allowing it to be sportier).
In addition, unlike SRPBEP who falsely claim that he looked under the MDX and Odessey, i have. The structural points (side rails, crossmembers, etc.) are the same on both the MDX and Odessey.
If SOMEONE CAN SHOW ME PROOF THAT THE MDX HAS MORE REINFORCEMENTS/CROSSMEMBERS/ETC., then i will admit that i am wrong. It is that simple!
This "game" have very simple rules...i like to call it more of an "argument/discussion". In fact, i don't think there are rules...just try and show me PROOF (as described above)...so, NO this is not my game and not my rules.
Integrity?? I guess when you're considered a "troll", you automatically lose integrity...so be it. Show me the money!
Thanks.
BTW, SRPBEP, i am REALLY glad you are not that dumb (yet). |
|
|
| paul123 |
quote:
Originally posted by tigmd99
Hey all,
I guess i realized NOW how numbminded some of you are! Geez, my 4-year nephew even knows that the Odessey is 2wd and MDX is 4wd...i did NOT think that some of you would pick on that! No freaking sh@t one is 2wd and the other is 4wd!
SRPBEP, thank goodness you were playing a game, because i was laughing my butt off while replying because you clearly showed you ignorance! Good that you have more brain power than that!
I don't think i have gone back on anything i have said. i will REPEAT again, that under the skin, the MDX and Odessey are alike!
Some say that the MDX has a "modified" suspension?? Well, according to my naked eye, they are the same. In addition, if you read the CANADIAN ACURA website, you will see that both suspension have the same description. IN FACT, the Odessey may have slightly MORE suspension travel than the MDX! Read it for yourself! I suspect this is due to a thicker anti-roll bar on the MDX (thus, decreasing articulation, but allowing it to be sportier).
In addition, unlike SRPBEP who falsely claim that he looked under the MDX and Odessey, i have. The structural points (side rails, crossmembers, etc.) are the same on both the MDX and Odessey.
If SOMEONE CAN SHOW ME PROOF THAT THE MDX HAS MORE REINFORCEMENTS/CROSSMEMBERS/ETC., then i will admit that i am wrong. It is that simple!
This "game" have very simple rules...i like to call it more of an "argument/discussion". In fact, i don't think there are rules...just try and show me PROOF (as described above)...so, NO this is not my game and not my rules.
Integrity?? I guess when you're considered a "troll", you automatically lose integrity...so be it. Show me the money!
Thanks.
BTW, SRPBEP, i am REALLY glad you are not that dumb (yet).
We need to call in a mediator? How about it WORM? What's your opinion on the matter?
How about the opinions of Acura4Life or Hondacuraworld? These are also the moderators of the thread. |
|
|
| DaleB |
I agree to help out here. I know I've read about the body/chassis reinforcements in various literature.
Common sense would say you would not be adding 4 wheel drive components and expect even light off road capability without additional body stiffening.
I don't know about the exact suspension components, are the they the same part numbers? So maybe the valving in the shocks is not different? What about spring rates?
It's possible I suppose. If they can accomplish the same goal and use existing components they will. Where they can't there will be changes.
More noise insulation as well as snubbing the the insulation of the subframes to the body would seem likely.
I believe the Canadian online poop sheet had a good run down of the engineering features down to quite a bit of detail, and if it's there I will gladly provide a link.
The only thing worse than being uninformed, is being mis-informed. |
|
|
| tigmd99 |
Hey all,
DaleB, unfortunately, i have read all the materials for the MDX already. It was part of my hobby/research when shopping for a new car. As stated above, i went so far as to go to Honda/Acura dealership to do a close examination of the MDX and Odessey. Have you notice that in the Acura brochure/website, they mention nothing at all about the Odessey?? Yeah, sure, they mention how much they concentrated on the MDX's structure and (my favorite explanation) "MEDIUM OFF-ROADING ABILITY,"and then on the Odessey's website, you ALSO read about enhancements to the Odessey to make it stronger/safer. If you notice, the explanations are quite similar for both vehicles! Again, this is just from reading Honda/Acura website. There is NO place anywhere that states that the MDX was ACTUALLY ENHANCED from the Odessey platform.
There is very little that i am not aware of when it comes to SUVs. That is a fact! I am saying this because i believe that i am quite fair when it comes to automotive discussions. You will NEVER see me get into a debate between the MDX and RX300 because the MDX is clearly the leader in THIS segment. Nor will you see me debating between the ES300 and TL-S. However, i do acknowledge that both companies have different priorities...thus, it shows in their products. Unfortunately, some of you do not see this at all.
If you discuss about the 4Runner, i will not hesitate to mention it's weaknesses (fake wood!, narrow interior, no rear armrest, no LATCH, relatively slow 0-60 time, rear drum brakes, and fake wood again!). But, the 4Runner makes up with other things that i like. I also do not compare the 4Runner's ability with the Hummer or Mercedes G500! That is just plain crazy! I have NO PROBLEM with people discussing it's weakness/strengths...why do YOU have such a problem with discussing MDX's weakness/strengths??
However, some of you decide to take it another step and declare it's superiority over ALL SUVs, even those in different classes!! That is where i disagree!
Strangely, i have not heard you guys comparing your beloved MDX with the new Range Rover. Is it because it has everything the MDX has (unibody, independent suspension), yet is quite capable off-roading???? Or is it that it has more features and it's interior is better (or more "timeless")?? Is that why you shy away from claiming superiority over it??
For some of you, just the fact that the MDX has a unibody and independent suspension, you ASSUME it is superior to any other SUV that don't have those characteristics! You fail to see that the world does NOT end with the MDX. And that to many nonMDX owners, the MDX is not their choice for various reasons.
Like any vehicle, the MDX has many strengths, but also has many (yes, many) weaknesses...most are inherent in it's design philosophy. It is all part of a trade-off/compromise.
With the arguments some of you are making, i can very well say that my old CRV is better than the MDX. Hey, it costs thousands less, but has very similar capability. Or, why don't you compare the MDX to a Hummer with your claim of "medium off-roading ability". Better yet, why don't you compare the interior of the MDX to the Range Rover or Lexus LX470?? Compare the materials. Why don't you compare the suspension of the Range Rover (which uses SOLID control arms) to the MDX (which uses STAMPED STEEL control arms)???
Well, i will stop here because it is quite obvious that some of you are just too blind to see beyond your MDX's steering wheel. Nor do any of you ever travel off-pavement. Unfortunately, many of you have no clue about the MDX's design philosophy. In the end, only a few MDX fans fail to see my point and keep on "blah, blah" the same argument over and over again withOUT giving facts of any sort.
If you all would like, we can start COMPARING the '02 CRV vs. MDX on my (and Gatorgreg) other forum:
http://www.gocrvclub.org/
I would love to discuss more about this topic!
Thank you. |
|
|
| DaleB |
http://popularmechanics.com/automot...ks/index2.phtml
Acura MDX
Aimed directly at the Lexus RX 300, Acura's awd MDX is based on a strengthened Honda Odyssey minivan platform and offers a 3.5-liter 240-hp V6 and an all-independent suspension
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/road...85/article.html
Exclusively for the North American market (for now, anyway), the MDX is built on Honda's light truck platform. This platform also serves as the basis for the Honda Odyssey minivan. The two vehicles have little in common, however. Acura says the MDX shares only about 12 percent of the Odyssey's architecture. Most of the similarities lie in the design of the front-third of the body structure. From the A-pillars back, the MDX is an all-new design. |
|
|
| cardingtr |
First off majority here bought MDX because of its features, the way it rides, etc. for the price. I know personally that it is based on the Odyssey because I traded my Odyssey on it.
And that is the reason why I like it.
If you bought a 4-runner because it can cross a ditch, fine. Because it is the feature that you like. Thats why there are different SUV from different carmaker because every company want a share of the pie and they build SUV with certain features to try to lure buyers. And you know what? I got an MDX!
I didn't buy the RX 300 because I'd rather drive an MDX on top of Odyssey than RX300 on top of a Camry. |
|
|
| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by cardingtr
First off majority here bought MDX because of its features, the way it rides, etc. for the price. I know personally that it is based on the Odyssey because I traded my Odyssey on it.
And that is the reason why I like it.
If you bought a 4-runner because it can cross a ditch, fine. Because it is the feature that you like. Thats why there are different SUV from different carmaker because every company want a share of the pie and they build SUV with certain features to try to lure buyers. And you know what? I got an MDX!
I didn't buy the RX 300 because I'd rather drive an MDX on top of Odyssey than RX300 on top of a Camry.
I don't think there is any argument that the MDX is BASED on the Odyssey which is certainly a excellent place to start. However, some think other than 4 wheel drive capability, it ends there. |
|
|
| wmquan |
DaleB,
Good point. Just a small addition -- besides the overall and category scores you mentioned in the respective IIHS tests, the MDX was also "Best Pick." IIHS only gives them to vehicles that score on the high end of "Good," sort of their way of awarding an "excellent" without changing their overall scoring system.
The crash results for the two vehicles are comparable because they are in a similar weight class (usually within 250 lbs is considered the same weight class). |
|
|
| srpbep |
tigmd99 ... just a couple of notes:
** I have indeed looked under the Ody 'cause I do have an interest in vehicles. That does not mean I went looking for a non-existant rear differential.
** Regarding "dumb" ... seems to me that you really do consider most [?all] others to be dumb in comparison to your "superior knowledge and intellect".
You are a self-proclaimed "troll". Some of us own MDXs and are here becuase of our interest in the vehicle we own. Curiosity question:
Why are you here?
Not interested in sites that share your interests?
???? |
|
|
| hhwc |
I and others on this forum bought the MDX because it fits our priorities. Who cares what the vehicle is based on as long as it works!
MDX/Pilot....Odyssey
RX300/Highlander.....Camry
CRV.....Civic
Rav4....Corolla
If you are trying to insult, I think you've failed. If you are trying to say the MDX is a minivan...fine, I drive the best damn minivan ever made then! :rolleyes: |
|
|
| tigmd99 |
Srpbep,
Hmmm...i guess someone needs to RE-READ my previous posts to know the answer you just asked....:confused:
DaleB, well, the crash tests only reflects that the MDX came after the Odessey.
"Acura's main priorities for the body structure were superior collision performance and a high level of rigidity without unnecessary weight. Acura says the body structure provides the strength needed to resist standard barrier impacts, offset crashes and side impacts. Though no government crash testing has been done as of this writing, Acura expects the MDX to earn five stars in NCAP frontal barrier tests and side impact tests. A "good" rating is expected from the IIHS's offset barrier tests." So, Honda Odessey did NOT have these protocols???
DaleB, you came up with tertiary information (not directly from Acura/Honda) stating the differences. So be it. I guess i am WRONG. I will not post on this topic anymore...i guess the Odessey and MDX are two different vehicles....
HHWC, i am not trying to insult. Please read my above posts. However, when people on this forum claim that their MDX is superior to other SUVs in higher classes, i wonder why??? More people should be like you, HHWC...happy with being the best in it's class.
Thanks...it's been fun.... |
|
|
| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by tigmd99
DaleB, well, the crash tests only reflects that the MDX came after the Odessey.
DaleB, you came up with tertiary information (not directly from Acura/Honda) stating the differences. So be it. I guess i am WRONG. I will not post on this topic anymore...i guess the Odessey and MDX are two different vehicles....
It only reflects the MDX came after the Odyssey? So? Maybe the MDX also came with a reinforced structure giving it a G instead of an A rating in that area.
I am just offering that because it is consistent with the 'tertiary' information. I suppose a direct quote from a Honda/Acura engineer would dispell any doubts.
And speaking of tertiary information: Where would they obtain it, if not from the same place they obtain other specifications, that being from official press releases of Acura/Honda, I suppose we should also judge those with a good dose of skepticism. |
|
|
| MDXtrous |
quote:
Originally posted by tigmd99
I don't think i have gone back on anything i have said. i will REPEAT again, that under the skin, the MDX and Odessey are alike!
In addition, unlike SRPBEP who falsely claim that he looked under the MDX and Odessey, i have. The structural points (side rails, crossmembers, etc.) are the same on both the MDX and Odessey.
So what if the MDX and the Odyssey have the same suspension? That's why I got the MDX in the first place. In our test drive, my wife didn't get carsick like she used to on our truck based Jeep Grand Cherokee. Not everyone wants to get a 4Runner or GX470 truck. I don't think I'll ever go offroading and neither will most of the people that buy the MDX.
For those who do, a 4Runner/GX470 will be great. But for others like us, the MDX, a hybrid, or whatever you call it is great. |
|
|
| MDXtrous |
quote:
Originally posted by bareyb
but I can't help but notice some of you who are so offended were happy to jump on the "ES300 is EXACTLY like a Camry" bandwagon the other day... [cough-hypocrisy-cough] :D
I don't think comparing the ES300 with the Camry is the same as comparing the MDX and the Odyssey. If you say the same comparison would be for the MDX and the Pilot, sure. As proven on the other thread, the ES300 and the Camry have almost the same exact dimensions, the same wheelbase, turn radius, same glasswork, even the tear-drop shaped headlamps etc. The same does not go with the Odyssey and MDX. They don't even have the same shape. |
|
|
| frostyra |
| DaleB -- as retired engineers, we've met plenty of guys like tigmd99 before. Young, great grades, know a helluva lot more than we old guys do, and don't mind telling us. But when push comes to shove, who wins? We do. We know the rules, we know how to bend them without breaking, and (most important) we have contacts. Life is good!:2: |
|
|
| megabuck2 |
Whats the big deal...so the MDX was based on the Ody...I never claimed to have purchased the MDX for serious off roading anyway.
Who cares whether 4runner is better at offroad than the MDX?
If the "troll" likes his 4runner, more power to him. I am glad he likes his 4runner and the offroading ability.
If he wants to trade safety, comfort, luxury and able to seat 7 for his offroading ability,hey, its his money and the last time I checked, U.S is still a free county. |
|
|
| rvehock |
| I have owned two 4Runners and I still like my MDX much more. It has more overall functionality and it performs at a much higher level. |
|
|
| megabuck2 |
from my brief reading......the "troll" wasn't looking at funtionality and perfomance but wanted to "point" to us that Ody and MDX is EXACTLY the same...I guess my MDX is an Ody in a different sheet metal...big deal...I know, Honda/Acura should have a niche. Making a panel swap an option, if you want a mini van look, detach body panels from MDX and attach "ODY" panel, and vise versa...sounds like a money maker to me.
I think the "troll" bought a 4runner and wanted to keep telling himself he did the right thing...lets all just pat him on the back and compliment him on his fine choice...maybe he will go away.
Did anyone notice that the new jag is exact copy of the taurus? with different engine, trans, etc...but the body is the EXACT same with different panel...as a matter of fact, if you llok at the new jag from behind, it does look like a taurus...
On the other hand, if you look at a 4runner at an angle it looks like a Model-T :2: |
|
|
| srpbep |
megabuck2 ... Do you think it fair to compare the Model-T to the 4-Runner? The 4-runner should have an edge because technology should enable the 4-runner to be better ... then again, I think the Model-T was slightly less expensive ... hmmm ... might be an interesting comparison after all ... anyone looked underneath?
:31: |
|
|
| megabuck2 |
srpbep,
I think model T could be considered "father" to all cars, trucks, vans... so all automobile is relative to others, same under the skin. Not IDENTICAL like someone wants us to believe.
We can say all athletes are identical...heck all of us are identical, same amount of bones, blood, organs...but we are all different...and I think thats what the orginal poster fogot. The structure may be IDENTICAL but all cars have their own personality given by man.
As basketball star can't excel in baseball (Michael Jordon), Ody cannot excel in what MDX does (vise versa) and what what 4runner is good for is not exactly what MDX was built for.
Anyway, it was seeing all the exchange going back and forth but...
:1: |
|
|
| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by frostyra
DaleB -- as retired engineers, we've met plenty of guys like tigmd99 before. Young, great grades, know a helluva lot more than we old guys do, and don't mind telling us. But when push comes to shove, who wins? We do. We know the rules, we know how to bend them without breaking, and (most important) we have contacts. Life is good!:2:
If you don't examine both sides of an issue, you stand to lose a lot more by holding steadfast to just one point of view. I never made the claim the MDX is any different than the Odyssey, I just enabled the possibilities to balance the argument beyond just looking underneath the vehicle, so others can draw their own conclusion. |
|
|
| hhwc |
I can appreciate what Acura/Honda did with the Odyssey platform to make it a MDX. Take an exceptional platform and make it even better! Way to go...
I test drove multiple vehicles (RX300, Highlander, Pilot) before deciding on the 'X. Didn't try the X5 (out of the price range) or the ML (reliability issues). The 'X drove the best out of all of them. That's saying a lot since I traded a 325i for the 'X. I'm not say the 'X drives like a 3-series...that would be totally unfair! ;) |
|
|
| A2MDXer |
quote:
Originally posted by tigmd99
Hey all,
There is very little that i am not aware of when it comes to SUVs. That is a fact!
Even if true, to make such a statement you must have an over-inflated view of yourself! Good luck with that!
By the way, your knowledge about the MDX and other SUVs is helpful. If you can figure a way to be a bit more modest and less insulting, people might actually respect your opinion.
quote:
Originally posted by tigmd99
Strangely, i have not heard you guys comparing your beloved MDX with the new Range Rover. Is it because it has everything the MDX has (unibody, independent suspension), yet is quite capable off-roading???? Or is it that it has more features and it's interior is better (or more "timeless")?? Is that why you shy away from claiming superiority over it??
I don't think anyone is "shying away", I think that's because the comparisons are usually started by "newbies" rather than the long-term members (for obvious reasons). When/if someone is cross-shopping these vehicles and asks for input, such a thread may appear.
I think most of us realize that the MDX is not perfect and not the best at all things - it's just a vehicle that meets our needs/wants and that we enjoy. Sadly, the MDX is probably capable of meeting all of my off-road needs - I wish that I had the time and/or a nearby area to need a true off-road SUV but I don't. |
|
|
| msu79gt82 |
All of this fuss just because someone challenged the "EXACT duplicate" calm of another person who conceeded that what he meant by "EXACT duplicate" was that one was merely based on the other:rolleyes:
Reminds me of Bill's "I did not have ..."
By the way what is IS?:o |
|
|
| msu79gt82 |
| ... I suggest that we abide by the rules of the English language and allow Webster's definition of our chosen words to be used rather than our own private definitions:cool: |
|
|
| Harry |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
I am probably a big fish to be jumping in here, but it is a common fact that the MDX is based on the Odyssey platform.
Of course, the MDX has reinforced some body structure, added additional insulation points between the subchassis for the drivetrain and the body.
The suspension was redesigned in concert with the increase in suspension travel and the need for more ground clearance and ride characteristics to meet light to moderate off road travel.
Additional drive train components, like the transfer assembly, 2 part drive shaft, VTM-4, 2 additional half shaft assemblies, additional control systems, etc.
Yes, they share similar engine and 5 speed transmissions.
Otherwise they are the same :rolleyes:
Thanks Dale
You saved me time responding to this thread.
Its funny, I don't even think about other SUVs or 4wheelers any more.
I'm in pure driving heaven. Nothing else to consider right now. I've found what works for me, even if several other models use similar parts. |
|
|
| donsev |
quote:
Originally posted by tigmd99
You do realize that the MDX is an EXACT duplicate of the Honda minivan underneath the exterior panels, right??
Just to add to the silliness of this argument, let's consider the math. By the estimate of the lead engineer of the Pilot, approximately 60% of components are shared between the Pilot and the MDX. Since the Pilot is substantially more similiar to the MDX than the Odyssey (length, wheelbase, width etc) let's estimate that the MDX shares approximately 36% of its components with the Odyssey (which sounds about right; some of the drivetrain and the floorpan of the unitbody shell). Since the Odyssey is *derived* from the Accord platform - we can calculate that the MDX and the Accord *share* 21.6% of their components (.60*.60*.60 - the math doesn't matter). Which means that I can declare with all sincerity that:
You do realize that the MDX is an EXACT duplicate of the Honda Accord underneath the exterior panels, right??
Which is no more of a ridiculous statement than that the VW Jetta Wagon is an EXACT duplicate of the Audi TT Roadster quattro. (They are both *derived* from the VW A4 (Golf IV) platform and share similiar powerplants.) Gosh, do you think people get confused when they are shopping and bring home the wrong one? |
|
|
| donsev |
quote:
Originally posted by tigmd99
Strangely, i have not heard you guys comparing your beloved MDX with the new Range Rover. Is it because it has everything the MDX has (unibody, independent suspension), yet is quite capable off-roading???? Or is it that it has more features and it's interior is better (or more "timeless")?? Is that why you shy away from claiming superiority over it??
Well actually it was discussed here (this link may not work when acuramdx.org comes back up - if not please see 2003 Range Rover Land Rover) and most members were impressed with its specs. If there were any hope whatsoever that its build quality would approach that of Honda/Acura or Toyota/Lexus, I am sure that there would be those here who would give it serious consideration. The question of course is the same as posed in this infamous article ML55 vs MDX - whether the vehicle is worth TWO MDXs (even ignoring the fact that the Range Rover is substantially slower and has no 3rd row seat) |
|
|
| donsev |
quote:
Originally posted by tigmd99
DaleB, unfortunately, i have read all the materials for the MDX already. ... There is NO place anywhere that states that the MDX was ACTUALLY ENHANCED from the Odessey platform.
quote:
www.europeanhonda.demon.nl/acura_mdx_test.htm
"the original plan for the vehicle was that we could easily modify the Odyssey platform," says Art St. Cyr, principal engineer on the MDX and assistant large-project leader for vehicle research.
"As we went through with development, we found a lot of things we had to change on the base platform to turn it into an SUV."
quote:
Packaging of major components at the rear of the MDX is a major engineering challenge. The rear subframe, which supports most of the rear suspension and the rear axle drive unit, is made of high-strength steel for high stiffness and minimal weight. The shape of the rear subframe is equally important - it must accommodate the drivetrain components for the VTM-4 four-wheel drive system,
quote:
Originally posted by tigmd99
IN FACT, the Odessey may have slightly MORE suspension travel than the MDX!
quote:
www.europeanhonda.demon.nl/acura_mdx_test.htm
"One of those things was wheel travel. The MDX's MacPherson strut front end has 7.3 inches of wheel travel, while the multilink rear has 8.2 inches."
This compares very favorably with the Jeep Liberty (as an example) with 8 inches of travel. quote:
www.edmunds.com/reviews/preview/articles/46036/article.html
"Liberty has... 8 inches of suspension travel "
Since the Odyssey has 4.3" of ground clearance and the MDX has 8" of ground clearance, it is unlikely that the Oddysey has an equivalent suspension travel.
quote:
Originally posted by tigmd99
As for the transmission, the new Odessey (2002) uses the same tranny as the MDX (which is 5-speed automatic tranny). It was just lagging behind MDX's technology in this sense
Since the original transmission would have had to have been heavily modified to accomodate a transfer case for the rear drive shaft (and for the addition of the fifth gear), it would have in effect become a completely new transmission. Since it would have been illogical to then attempt to reverse engineer what is now a 4wd capable transmission/transfer case BACK to 2WD, it would make sense that the engineers would have taken what they learned in squeezing 5 gears into that tight space and apply that to the Odyssey transmission. Which sounds like exactly what they did:
quote:
http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/features/2001/october/200110_preview_hondaodyssey.xml
"Honda found a way to add an extra gear to the transmission without altering the housing or internals, and it now offers shorter gear ratios in the first four gears for better acceleration and towing, and a fifth gear taller than the previous fourth gear for quieter and more economical cruising."
quote:
Originally posted by tigmd99
There is very little that i am not aware of when it comes to SUVs. That is a fact!
Okeedokee then. |
|
|
| msu79gt82 |
... to finishing FIRST in the Automotive Lease Guides resale value:cool: Both vehicles lead their respective categories in future resale values.
http://www.honda-pilot.org/forumsmd...=&threadid=6778
But both are in DIFFERENT categories so I guess the AGL does not consider them identical after all:rolleyes: |
|
|
| msu79gt82 |
That link may not work, due to the current server problems.:(
But you can go to General Discussions and click on the thread called MDX phenomenal resale value! |
|
|
| renov8r |
quote:
Originally posted by donsev
....
Okeedokee then.
AMEN my brother!
Hey Thai got a little carried away.
I enjoy the posts over on the CRV forum, and think that MAYBE the whole GX470 fanaticism is, how you say, a bit premature.
I know I'd rather be doing heavy duty boulder crushing offroading in somebody else's GX470 than a CRV or MDX that I'd own ... :D
I have this image in my head of tigmd99 driving around in an Oddy that the paramedics have removed all the body panels from with "the jaws of life" and the sound of manically screams of "ITS THE SAME AS AN MDX-- IT IS IT IS BELIVE ME" ;)
It's OK, really just go mush though a swamp or something, you'll feel all better... |
|
|
| srpbep |
quote:
donsev wrote:
Somebody make me stop, Please!
Not me, no way, you're too darn good. You have saved me from a possibly difficult task. I was thinking that I was going to have to convert the rear doors to sliders and then install auto openers and closers.
Soooooo .... thanks |
|
|
| tigmd99 |
Hey all,
It's me again...not to stir anymore troubles, but just to point out things:
From http://english.honda.ca/models/odys...iption.asp#d03: Rear suspension travel is 220 mm.
From
http://english.acuracanada.ca/model...iption.asp#d04: Wheel travel is a generous 125 mm in compression and 83 mm in rebound. (125 + 83 = 208).
Did i lie?
BTW, the Liberty has 8 inches of travel FRONT AND REAR...that makes a significant difference!
You guys do the math...208 vs. 220?? Hmmm, who's doubting who?
You guys crack me with your denial! :)
Thanks, REN, i will go out and off-road! |
|
|
| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by tigmd99
Hey all,
It's me again...not to stir anymore troubles, but just to point out things:
From http://english.honda.ca/models/odys...iption.asp#d03: Rear suspension travel is 220 mm.
From
http://english.acuracanada.ca/model...iption.asp#d04: Wheel travel is a generous 125 mm in compression and 83 mm in rebound. (125 + 83 = 208).
Did i lie?
BTW, the Liberty has 8 inches of travel FRONT AND REAR...that makes a significant difference!
You guys do the math...208 vs. 220?? Hmmm, who's doubting who?
You guys crack me with your denial! :)
Thanks, REN, i will go out and off-road!
But....but... I ..I thought you started off showing how the MDX and Odyssey were really the same, not different. Now you found something different...wow!...you are the man! and you are in the house!
It probably has to do with that VTM-4...they probably had to modify the suspension to adapt it. Those darn engineers! Give you one thing and take away another! Robbed us of 0.47 " of travel! But we do have more ground clearance. I don't think we will miss that 1/2" that much will we?
I bet those test drivers in Germany and the US that had the LIberty roll on them were impressed with that 8 " of travel front and rear. |
|
|
| MDXtrous |
quote:
Originally posted by tigmd99
You guys do the math...208 vs. 220?? Hmmm, who's doubting who?
Last time I checked 208 does not equal 220. Am I missing something? |
|
|
| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by MDXtrous
Last time I checked 208 does not equal 220. Am I missing something?
Maybe that MDX owners might think their vehicle is an improvement over the Odyssey platform, instead of just different in some details?
:8: |
|
|
| msu79gt82 |
quote:
Originally posted by MDXtrous
Last time I checked 208 does not equal 220. Am I missing something?
... you must have forgotten that he said they were "EXACT duplicates":rolleyes: Thats like using a double negative!! Just like a double negative means yes, an EXACT duplicate really means different;)
PS We live in the culture of "What do you mean by IS?":o |
|
|
| donsev |
quote:
Originally posted by tigmd99
Did i lie?
Well, calling it lying might be a little too harsh, I consider your posts to be somewhat *selective* with the truth. I do admire your diligence in tracking down the one piece of information that could possibly be construed as supporting one of your half dozen or so assertions that have otherwise been disproven.
I also saw the 220mm figure for the Odyssey but did not consider it relevant because a)it did not include the front suspension information, b)it did not include the compression/rebound breakdown and c)it is probably in error.
In your post referencing the suspension travel you stated that you visually observed that the suspensions (MDX and Odyssey) were the *same* and you thought that the Ody might have more travel. I could only conclude that you meant the front suspension (a very common strut assembly) since, as you no doubt know now, the rear suspensions are quite different. So, by not addressing the lack of front suspension travel information on the Ody, I thought I would allow you to save at least a little face.
In addition, as we do the math, we see that IF the suspensions were identical (keeping the same 125mm on compression) then the ODY would have 4.9" of compression travel - a bit of a problem since the ground clearance is only 4.3" :eek: (let's hope they have soft bump stops because they will be hitting them often)
Which leads me to believe that the 220mm measurement is in error - not terribly surprising given some of the errors/omissions that we have already found on the Honda/Acura web sites (the most egregious example being the current listing of the MDX having a 4 speed transmission (hey, that's one way the MDX is different from the Ody!)
quote:
Originally posted by tigmd99
BTW, the Liberty has 8 inches of travel FRONT AND REAR...that makes a significant difference!
A fraction of an inch is *significant* to who? We can list a number of other SUVs (including several body on frame) that have suspension travel measurements very close to the MDX (which is why I included the Liberty as an example of one which is quite capable off-road). But maybe this is more like what you had in mind Off road Ramp, in which case I strongly agree that the MDX is NOT for you :) . |
|
|
| jonnygoodboy |
| Wow! Three tires still on the ground: |
|
|
| JTM |
quote:
Originally posted by msu79gt82
... you must have forgotten that he said they were "EXACT duplicates":rolleyes: Thats like using a double negative!! Just like a double negative means yes, an EXACT duplicate really means different;)
PS We live in the culture of "What do you mean by IS?":o
msu,
negative x negative = positive. [In the theory of MATH]
So maybe he is right and we are wrong?? :2: :eek:
or should I go back to ask my elementary school math teacher? :confused: |
|
|
| ghost |
| MSU states that a double negative = yes, which equates to two multiplied negatives equaling a positive, so what msu has said is not incorrect. |
|
|
|
