| ardvarkus |
I for one am disturbed that this site is nothing more that a rooting section for Acura and the MDX.
But I am even more disturbed that moderators feel the need to censor and control what is said. And that they are the arbiters of what is on topic and what is not.
$hit, if they did that I know a few of you would cut your posts by a half at least.
As disturbed as I am at some of the numbers being tossed about, I am more concerned with this apparent blind, slavish devotion to 'good news'. NOTHING HERE IS VERIFIED. Period. Tust what you want, but this business of personality contests and majority rules defining the truth is moronic.
Well, time to get back to "headlight grills and leather conditioner choices"... that should be pretty non-confrontational.
Ard
PS Is there a way to delete all of one's posts? Please don't tell me for a week, otherwise I'd likely do it. |
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| srpbep |
I'm with Ard,
As long as there is no name calling, vulgarity, slamming of one another, etc. ... what is wrong with opinions, observations, yada yada yada.
IMHO, Acura has a problem ... stuck somewhere between Toyota and Lexus. They have an attitude. Denying this won't fix it. If they want to upscale, let them start by recalling TLs and fix the transmission. Naw ... gonna upset a lot of customers instead and kill the resale market ... That WILL affect the MDX as well.
IMHO, MDX could be better ... Is that a bad thing to say? I did NOT say it wasn't a good vehicle, simply that it could be better [and what vehicle couldn't be better]. What is so very wrong about discussing pros and CONS. |
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| murray |
| Completely agree. More of a cult org then a forum. |
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| bareyb |
Well. Welcome to the world of enthusiast websites. I hate to tell ya, but this place is by far the MOST liberal to criticism of any I've seen. Most other boards that are built around a particular brand or even ones that are being funded by a particular brand are SO much more censor happy. The only problem is, that the members at large never KNOW it.
Somebody like "TheRobSJ" would have had his membership suspended many weeks ago without notice. He just would have dissapeared and everyone would have just thought he was a troll who left the scene. Guys like this most recent "Soul Surfer" would have simply had their posts deleted without a trace. Again, nobody would be the wiser. Unless of course Soul Surfer came back later and complained. Then he would have had THAT post deleted and HIS membership suspended or revoked.
The game is rigged my friends. On ALL enthusiast boards that I have ever seen. This one is not going to be an exception. However. One reason I stick around here is BECAUSE of the amazing amount of open mindedness people seem to have here. The Admins and Mods show an unusual amount of restraint. I have certainly pissed off my share around here myself. And yes, I have almost had one of my threads closed. I didn't think it was fair for the same reasons you guys are stating. I felt like if you are going to have a "comparison" section, then you have to take your lumps like anyone else. On the other hand, I also backed off because I KNOW that this board is not a democracy. That I am visiting someone's "house" and that I have to respect their rules. And their bias. This is an MDX enthusiast board. What did I expect?
My point is that Rob pushed it too far. Now his threads have been banished to the wasteland where few will see them. The locked ones will disappear completely. That's what happens folks. Every day on boards like this all over the Internet. I don't say that's "right" but that's how it is. The owners and Mods of enthusiast boards are never going to be unbiased. If they were unbiased they wouldn't have spent the time, effort and money to start the board in the first place. Assuming at least some good faith on his part, that he wanted the information to get out there, he kinda of stepped on his dick by pushing it too far. You can't come into somebodys house and make it clear that you get a charge out of upsetting them. His disdain for Acura owners was not even lightly veiled. I believe "Butt hurt" was the phrase. Once I saw that, I knew he was trolling and I knew it was only a matter of time before he would be either banned or his threads would be moved and/or locked. Frankly I was shocked it took as long as it did. Again, what did he expect?
I guess what I'm saying is, if you want to blame someone for the threads being locked and moved, blame Rob himself. I think he had a message to get out and I'm glad he did. I was not aware of the TL transmission problems and I think it's good to talk about this stuff. You can bet that all of this DOES get back to Acura. It's just too easy to send those in power a link via email. The problem is Rob just doesn't know when to back off. When you are in somebody elses house you sometimes are going to have to let them have the last word. Even if you don't agree with it. If he had used a little more common sense his threads would not have generated such animous and they might still be around. Whatever truths he had to share quickly became overshadowed by the fact that he obviously has a bone to pick with Acura and Acura owners. In the end, he himself did the most to damage his own credibility... Hey. Live and learn... |
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| DaleB |
Whether you agree or agree to disagree, almost everything has a thread of truth in it.
In my opinion RobSJ has contributed to the board and is taking in information as he sees fit that might assist him in his job. His job is working on Acuras, that could hardly be detrimental to us.
I would agree I felt somewhat differently at the beginning because of his general attitude; whether he likes Acuras or not, I could give a hill a beans.
I don't ask a tradesman's opinion based on whether he likes a particular brand of anything. It's more related to how to do something, and applies universally to most all products.
That aside, I really enjoy this board. The wealth of knowledge to be gained on here in particular for prospective owners is tremendous.
The interlopers, or 'trolls' are a waste of time. They are only here to criticize with no backup, and offer nothing constructive.
For that reason alone, I wonder if it not might be smart to rename it acuramdxowners.org to make it clear that this is really intended for owners, past, present and future. And if others jump in that's ok as long as they can contribute something useful for the benefit of all members. I don't think we need to go so far as a 'mission statememt' but a small paragraph that provides a purpose of the forum might be created.
But my real question to you, bareyb and crete for that matter, is why you are not attending the 9/28 meet? |
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| bareyb |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
But my real question to you, bareyb and crete for that matter, is why you are not attending the 9/28 meet?
My initial response would be "what 9/28 meet?" I honestly didn't even know about it and when I just now looked in the "meets" section there is no mention of it. I'm sure it's around but I didn't dig for it. Secondly, I am afraid if I show in an RX300 that you guys will stone me. I still have not made my "new vehicle" purchase decision yet. I am waiting for the new Lexus GX to come out. I have deposits on both the new '03 MDX and the new Lexus GX. I would assume the meet is for actual owners of MDX's. Not sure I'd want to be there as a "maybe"... That could get pretty uncomfortable... I would like to meet "TheRobSJ" though. Do you think he will be there? :D |
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| mdxxxx |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
Whether you agree or agree to disagree, almost everything has a thread of truth in it.
In my opinion RobSJ has contributed to the board ...whether he likes Acuras or not, I could give a hill a beans.
... The wealth of knowledge to be gained on here in particular for prospective owners is tremendous.
The interlopers, or 'trolls' are a waste of time. They are only here to criticize with no backup, and offer nothing constructive.
For that reason alone, I wonder if it not might be smart to rename it acuramdxowners.org to make it clear that this is really intended for owners, past, present and future. And if others jump in that's ok as long as they can contribute something useful for the benefit of all members. I don't think we need to go so far as a 'mission statememt' but a small paragraph that provides a purpose of the forum might be created.
A voice of reason! :D |
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| TheRobSJ |
I have taken it as far with all of you as it has been taken to me. As I said in another post before it was shuffled under the rug, I merely posted my observations about the MDX along with an opinion of my own. Obviously an opinion that made people get defensive. (and yes, I do enjoy seeing you all get riled up over it, it's pure comedy to myself and anyone else I have come look at the drama going on here) More specifics were requested. I gave them. Only to be met with shock and disbelief. So my choice in vehicles was put under the spotlight. So I attack the MDX and Acura even further. Then it gets more personal by having my credibility, intelligence, ethics, and more attacked. A lot of you took it further than me. OK, I went after Tim the parts guy, but I'm sorry, his "cold hard numbers" just don't add up to what I've seen with my own eyes. Not to mention the sunroof tape debate...
And sorry to dissapoint, but I'm not going to your club meeting. It's the anniversary of the signifigant other that I...what was that choice again? "Caught doing it in an Acura with someone else?"
Rob |
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| DaleB |
Personally, I would not feel comfortable if I didn't show up in an MDX or Pilot. Only because I am sure it will be a photo shoot to some extent.
I find other cars interesting too, and like to read about them on forums, but would never want to go to meets without at least owning one.
At the same time I don't think we could ever 'ban' anyone from an activity based on the fact they don't have an MDX, or maybe they have it in a shop getting .......weeping mirriors fixed. Thought I would say something esle, huh?
Although some kind of maintenance clinic for owners would not be a bad idea either, and RobSJ could be our collective tech rep.
But in anycase, there has been a lot of hoopla and some accusations without merit, but that does not mean we have to sit here and not move off the dime. |
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| TheRobSJ |
If I went to this little meeting, I'd bring something that would draw more of a crowd than my boring truck. There's millions of Silverados on the road already, I'm sure you all know what one looks like.
And we don't see too much of the weeping mirror problem anymore. Seems like we've updated them on all the ones people want to complain about already. Sometimes when work gets slow, we might do the job before the customer complains. Or sunroof tape if we hear the rattle on our road test.
Rob |
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| msu79gt82 |
quote:
Originally posted by ardvarkus
I for one am disturbed that this site is nothing more that a rooting section for Acura and the MDX.
This is a home for Acura MDX Enthusiasts! That fact is not a secret. Members come here to exchange information and discuss their enthusiasm for a vehicle we all have in common. In that respect the forum serves as a form of entertainment, a club if you will. Why in the world would I want to voluntarily go somewhere (dinner, movie, play, concert, museum, etc.) and have to participate in discussions where other patrons are bashing the "product" (meal. show, etc.)? That makes no sense to me:confused: If I am enjoying the meal/show then why should I listen to people around me telling me how bad it is and how stupid I am for being there? I just do not get it!
This website is a home for MDX enthusiasts yes, but it has never been one where members stick their heads in the sand. We have admitted the MDX flaws, problems, shortcomings from day one!! The Bose radio, weeping mirrors, the thud, sloshing gas tanks, door dings, wind noise (DMor's fix), Navi blackouts, door pillar nicks, BellTechs lemon, etc., etc. They have been talked about openly and honestly. These discussions have provided a wealth of information and even provided a little entertainment as we have commiserated together!
But why should we have to listen to garbage? Why should I have to listen to someone tell me I am stupid for buying the MDX? I am sorry but that is not censorship. Restuarants have the right to kick out obnoxious diners ruining everyone elses meal! The threatre has the right to ask loud rude patrons to leave. One does not have the right to talk on a cell phone while the play is in progress.
I see no harm in allowing anyone access to the site to browse and listen; but I also see no reason not to have rules governing one's right to talk and participate in discussions. |
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| gokings55 |
first of all, was this thread really necessary?
Secondly, I feel anyone is free to post whatever they want. And I am free to respond to other's opinions and comments. Everyone here is biased to varying degrees regarding the different cars we drive. Let's all just suck it up, stop whining, and let the chips fall where they may. But please don't start with the "If things don't change I'm leaving" crap. If anyone feels the need to leave, just leave. My 2 cents.:) |
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| mdxxxx |
quote:
Originally posted by msu79gt82
This is a home for Acura MDX Enthusiasts! That fact is not a secret. Members come here to exchange information and discuss their enthusiasm for a vehicle we all have in common. In that respect the forum serves as a form of entertainment, a club if you will. Why in the world would I want to voluntarily go somewhere (dinner, movie, play, concert, museum, etc.) and have to participate in discussions where other patrons are bashing the "product" (meal. show, etc.)? That makes no sense to me:confused: If I am enjoying the meal/show then why should I listen to people around me telling me how bad it is and how stupid I am for being there? I just do not get it!
This website is a home for MDX enthusiasts yes, but it has never been one where members stick their heads in the sand. We have admitted the MDX flaws, problems, shortcomings from day one!! The Bose radio, weeping mirrors, the thud, sloshing gas tanks, door dings, wind noise (DMor's fix), Navi blackouts, door pillar nicks, BellTechs lemon, etc., etc. They have been talked about openly and honestly. These discussions have provided a wealth of information and even provided a little entertainment as we have commiserated together!
But why should we have to listen to garbage? Why should I have to listen to someone tell me I am stupid for buying the MDX? I am sorry but that is not censorship. Restuarants have the right to kick out obnoxious diners ruining everyone elses meal! The threatre has the right to ask loud rude patrons to leave. One does not have the right to talk on a cell phone while the play is in progress.
I see no harm in allowing anyone access to the site to browse and listen; but I also see no reason not to have rules governing one's right to talk and participate in discussions.
You must be reading my mind, beat me to it by stating this seemingly obvious fact.
:D |
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| msu79gt82 |
quote:
Originally posted by gokings55
first of all, was this thread really necessary?
Secondly, I feel anyone is free to post whatever they want. And I am free to respond to other's opinions and comments. Everyone here is biased to varying degrees regarding the different cars we drive. Let's all just suck it up, stop whining, and let the chips fall where they may. But please don't start with the "If things don't change I'm leaving" crap. If anyone feels the need to leave, just leave. My 2 cents.:)
Is that your attitude at fine restuarants? At theaters? People can act however they want around you and you do not mind? You do not care if I come up to you in a restuarant and belittle your choice of entre, spread lies about your food, and call you stupid for buying that obviously inferior cut of meat - and all this while you are eating? You do not care if I call you an idiot for paying for those theater tickets and berate you the whole time the play is on?
I do not see the difference! This is an acknowledged website for MDX enthusiast, why must I be subject to trolls ruining the experience? |
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| remery |
I don't mind contrary opinions but the transmission wars degrading into out right mudslinging doesn't belong on this or any site. I am on this site primarily for enjoyment so when I see numerous negative posts that are based upon limited facts or pure opinion, I react negatively also. You don't go to church to lecture the congregation on the virtues of atheism!
Also Ard, are you having another one of your bad days?;) |
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| mdxpecting |
| Just when I think we are really just a bunch of well-adjusted people with fulfilled lives who happened to be enthused about a car we drive, I see a thread like this. It's just sad. |
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| MDX350 |
quote:
Originally posted by remery
I am on this site primarily for enjoyment so when I see numerous negative posts that are based upon limited facts or pure opinion, I react negatively also.
If the primary objective is enjoyment, then there are various other things that should be allowed on this site (!!!!).
This is a site for MDX owners, enthusiasts, AND everyone else. If somebody has a point to make, they should be allowed to, as long as they are civilized and open to reason. This is NOT a site for people to just mindlessly rave about a particular car or truck (a.k.a. MDX).
I think sharing information about problems, solutions, pricing, deals, accessories, upcoming models, we all benefit each other. That is the primary motive of MY being here. I have better things to do for "enjoyment" - true, I want this to be a healthy pasttime as well, but more importantly, I want it to be USEFUL.
In that spirit, some of the threads that RobSJ started were quite useful. You may question some of his statements and opinions - I don't agree with some of them as well - but there certainly was some useful information as well. Its sad to see some people so threatened by him so as to attack him personally.
The advantage of internet is a free, anonymous exchange of information. True, this leads to more "noise" in what you hear, but it also leads to more "information" - if each one of us was asked to post our address, dates of birth, social sec numbers, mother's maiden name, and post a $10,000 deposit for the veracity of the information we post, then true, whatever information we get would be BLOODY DAMN authentic, but you wouldn't get anything then, NOTHING, not one of us would post anything, and this forum would die.
So lets take advantage of the internet, while simultaneously learning to sift through the noisy information to come to more informed decisions. And to that extent, there is no need to censor ANYTHING that is not lude, insulting, or derogatory. |
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| msu79gt82 |
quote:
Originally posted by MDX350
This is a site for MDX owners, enthusiasts, AND everyone else. If somebody has a point to make, they should be allowed to, as long as they are civilized and open to reason. This is NOT a site for people to just mindlessly rave about a particular car or truck (a.k.a. MDX).
I think sharing information about problems, solutions, pricing, deals, accessories, upcoming models, we all benefit each other. That is the primary motive of MY being here. I have better things to do for "enjoyment" - true, I want this to be a healthy pasttime as well, but more importantly, I want it to be USEFUL.
In that spirit, some of the threads that RobSJ started were quite useful. You may question some of his statements and opinions - I don't agree with some of them as well - but there certainly was some useful information as well. Its sad to see some people so threatened by him so as to attack him personally.
The advantage of internet is a free, anonymous exchange of information. True, this leads to more "noise" in what you hear, but it also leads to more "information" - if each one of us was asked to post our address, dates of birth, social sec numbers, mother's maiden name, and post a $10,000 deposit for the veracity of the information we post, then true, whatever information we get would be BLOODY DAMN authentic, but you wouldn't get anything then, NOTHING, not one of us would post anything, and this forum would die.
So lets take advantage of the internet, while simultaneously learning to sift through the noisy information to come to more informed decisions. And to that extent, there is no need to censor ANYTHING that is not lude, insulting, or derogatory.
Actually this site has an owner and that owner gets to make the rules. Not that I am speaking for him now, but I seem to recall that he started this site for MDX enthusiasts.
PS I consider trolls coming in and calling me an idiot for buying an MDX to be insulting; therefore according to you such trolls ought to be censored! Thank you. |
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| msu79gt82 |
quote:
Originally posted by mdxpecting
Just when I think we are really just a bunch of well-adjusted people with fulfilled lives who happened to be enthused about a car we drive, I see a thread like this. It's just sad.
Why is it sad? I just do not get it? When I go to a restuarant or to the theater I expect a certain level of decency and respect from the other patrons! That is NOT censorship either!! Why is it any different here? Why am I expected to tolerate rude, obnoxious behavior? There are threads (recent ones) where trolls have come in and called us owners idiots! There is no need to put up with that! |
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| MARFONG |
Well said MDX350...I agree with your thoughts on this matter. I have found RobSJ to be very informative. He seems to be very knowledgable about the MDX. I may not agree with his opinion about Acuras, but he is entitled to his thoughts.
I hope RobSJ doesn't get turned off by the few members that think he should be banned. I think the majority of us appreciate his inputs. |
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| msu79gt82 |
quote:
Originally posted by MARFONG
Well said MDX350...I agree with your thoughts on this matter. I have found RobSJ to be very informative. He seems to be very knowledgable about the MDX. I may not agree with his opinion about Acuras, but he is entitled to his thoughts.
I hope RobSJ doesn't get turned off by the few members that think he should be banned. I think the majority of us appreciate his inputs.
Rob provides a wealth of information and obviously he must like chatting about the vehicles he works on. That said I question why he came into our forums with his guns flaming? What was the point? Why does he feel the need to put "An Acura mechanic that will never own one...believe it." in his signature.
If he truly enjoys his work and he truly enjoys talking about it, why couldn't he come in an introduce himself and volunteer his expertise? Rob could have joined and introduced himself, tell us what he did for a living, and volunteer his knowledge without the attitude. The knowledge is welcome, the attitude we can do without. I'm not interested in putting down his choice of vehicles, why does he want to put down mine? |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by msu79gt82
An Acura mechanic that will never own one...believe it." in his signature.
If he truly enjoys his work and he truly enjoys talking about it, why couldn't he come in an introduce himself and volunteer his expertise? Rob could have joined and introduced himself, tell us what he did for a living, and volunteer his knowledge without the attitude. The knowledge is welcome, the attitude we can do without. I'm not interested in putting down his choice of vehicles, why does he want to put down mine? [/B]
That's a fair question, but it's the questions he asks and the information he provides that is improtant. Not what his signature says.
We have trolls on here with no clue in their signatures, but who can not carry on a discussion without slamming Acura or MDXs. You really have to wonder about their motives. Or they must lead such miserable lives, if such posting gives them such satisfaction.
I can think of several cars, and other things I don't like and no matter how hard I try just can not imagine myself wasting time on related sites just to tear them down. What a waste of time! |
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| ardvarkus |
quote:
Originally posted by msu79gt82
but I seem to recall that he started this site for MDX enthusiasts.
So, I guess we need another site for MDX REALISTS???
Oh, and if you don't think there is a need for this thread... stop reading it.
Ard
PS Remery- It wasn't another one of those days. This whole aspect of how the transmission stuff was handled (from members attacking RobSJ to thinking they could discern 'true' failure rates by asking dealers to censoring threads) really ticked me off. |
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| mdxxxx |
quote:
Originally posted by msu79gt82
This is a home for Acura MDX Enthusiasts!
quote:
Originally posted by ardvarkus
So, I guess we need another site for MDX REALISTS???
Are these mutually exclusive? :8:
I'd like to think I am both! |
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| TheRobSJ |
quote:
Originally posted by msu79gt82
Rob provides a wealth of information and obviously he must like chatting about the vehicles he works on. That said I question why he came into our forums with his guns flaming? What was the point? Why does he feel the need to put "An Acura mechanic that will never own one...believe it." in his signature.
If he truly enjoys his work and he truly enjoys talking about it, why couldn't he come in an introduce himself and volunteer his expertise? Rob could have joined and introduced himself, tell us what he did for a living, and volunteer his knowledge without the attitude. The knowledge is welcome, the attitude we can do without. I'm not interested in putting down his choice of vehicles, why does he want to put down mine?
Dude, do you think I am under any obligation to parade the company line on my own private time? It's my own personal opinion that I don't like the car, an opinion that I am completely entitled to. I will be changing my sig. line soon, but it isn't going to make you any happier when you see it. But you know what, other than the deleted posts, I haven't recieved any warning to cease and desist from the powers that be...so I'm not changing who I am because you don't like it. Just deal pal.
Yeah it's a little weird jumping in your little circle here seeing as how that I don't own an MDX nor will I ever own one, but I kinda assumed that my job would be my "ticket" in. And it looks like most everyone else can handle it, so boo hoo. My heart bleeds for you.
Rob |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by mdxxxx
Are these mutually exclusive? :8:
I'd like to think I am both!
Under another topic I suggested MDX owners.
So we have owners and/or enthusiasts and whether they are realistic is open to interpretation. |
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| donsev |
quote:
Originally posted by ardvarkus
This whole aspect of how the transmission stuff was handled (from members attacking RobSJ to thinking they could discern 'true' failure rates by asking dealers to censoring threads) really ticked me off.
Ard,
I realize this was a PS to remery, so pardon me for interjecting, but can you not see how Rob's initial, rather brusque introduction of himself to this forum could provoke a defensive reaction from other members? While there is no excuse for some of the verbage that was spewed forth, msu79gt82 is right in saying that Rob knew exactly what he was doing and got exactly the response he was looking for (as Rob himself admits). Clearly Rob could have quietly joined this forum, offering the "knowledge" that you are looking for, and slowly built up the respect and appreciation of the members of this forum. Then when Rob shared his "observations" on pattern failures (and SUV preferences ;) ), the forum members would likely have had very different response. Rob chose to make the Andy Warhol type introduction - and he has to be man enough to face the repercussions
(Is "thinking they could discern 'true' failure rates by asking dealers" any more blindly irrational than thinking there is a systemic problem with the MDX trans based on the casual observations of one mechanic??) |
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| mdxxxx |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
So we have owners and/or enthusiasts and whether they are realistic is open to interpretation.
Ah, a beginning to an interesting philosophical debate, "DEFINING REALITY", who's reality, determining and identifying paralell realities, and then interpreting them.
Hmmm, what class was that anyway?
:D |
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| srpbep |
Let's see, guess I qualify as both an owner and an enthusiast. Lauding the pluses of the MDX I don't find particularly useful, we own one and therefore have 1st hand access to the experience. What I find useful includes "stuff" others have experienced that we haven't:
** Accessories that we don't own [good, bad, pros, cons, etc.].
** Accessory installation tips.
** Modifications [what, why, how, cost/benefit].
** Maintenance tips and tricks.
** Driving experiences [e.g. performance of ABS, VTM, etc.].
And last, but probably most important to ME, are the problems [and yes, all vehicles have some]. What are the problems, could they be resolved, how were they resolved, etc. There are all kinds of reasons for wanting to focus here:
** What to look out for.
** Heading off "dealer crap" that "this is normal".
** Heading off "dealer crap" that this can't be fixed [e.g. seat rails].
** Whether to buy an extended warranty [expensive decision].
Knowing the vehicle and what to expect are very useful to me. I would hope others would find this useful as well. And I don't really care whether someone [non-MDX owner] visits the site and sees that the MDX has some problems. What I do care about is that we own one and knowing the MDX is something I find useful.
And no, I am not having a bad day!! |
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| papawoolf |
RobSJ
I find the info you provide very useful and don't care how you feel about Acura or what kind of vehicle you drive. It's good to have someone on the inside give us the GOOD, BAD and UGLY on the MDX.
I had a 90 Integra Automatic with the transmission replaced twice, :mad: under warranty with a rebuild at 40K on the odometer and again around 80K at my expense. :3: I got rid of the vehicle after 12 years and 120k on the odometer. I would have kept the vehicle longer, but the transmission was beginnning to act up again and I decided to get rid of it. The vehicle was in great conditon other than the transmission.
If I had know there were problems with that year/model I wouldn't have kept it that long. So this site has valuable info that everybody provides.
The MDX is my second Acura product and I purchased another one regardless of my expierience with the Integra. I have owned an 2001 Accord and still have a 97 Honda Accord. No problems with either vehicle. The Acura/Honda family may not be the best, but it's not far from the top.
I'm not here to offend anyone, just speaking my opinion and previous Acura vehicle experience. |
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| ardvarkus |
quote:
Originally posted by donsev
(Is "thinking they could discern 'true' failure rates by asking dealers" any more blindly irrational than thinking there is a systemic problem with the MDX trans based on the casual observations of one mechanic??)
ABSOLUTELY!!! Totally agree. Both are not to be trusted- just take the info and use it.
Oh, Rob certainly 'faced the represcussions' he received. It was the membership and moderators that couldn't handle it. The truth is somewhere in the middle and only time will prove it- yet many here JUST COULD NOT LET IT BE- hence the mess.
Bout time to move on, no?
Ard |
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| vicpai |
quote:
Originally posted by ardvarkus
ABSOLUTELY!!! Totally agree. Both are not to be trusted- just take the info and use it.
Oh, Rob certainly 'faced the represcussions' he received. It was the membership and moderators that couldn't handle it. The truth is somewhere in the middle and only time will prove it- yet many here JUST COULD NOT LET IT BE- hence the mess.
Bout time to move on, no?
Ard
then decided to see if I would be wasting my time. However, I apparently proved myself wrong!! :29: It is good to see so many like-minded, open, honest, sincere people who are willing to "tell it like it is"...you know... "call a spade, a spade".....etc. and are not just here to go on in some cult-fashion to merely sing the praises of the MDX!!. Yes, entertainment value (complementing each other on a good purchase) is definitely a part of this site, but it is only ONE PART OF THE EQUATION.
For the record, I find myself strongly agreeing with Ardvarkus, Srpbep, MDX350 and all others who are looking for THE FACTS and not just hyperbole and praise!!. In all my posts, I believe credit and praise has to be given where it's due, and in this regard, I've been quick to praise the MDX for all it's virtues (especially the Nav), the VTM-4 (which has shown incredible reliability, considering it's a totally new system for Honda) etc. However, I find it very important to see BOTH sides of the coin, and point out the shortcomings as well.
And BTW, the transmission issues, which I believe are for REAL (at least with other Honda products) has not detered me from my decision to purchase an '03 MDX, but members like The RobSJ and others, have helped me with making an INFORMED decision which led me to take precautionary measures (such as considering purchasing a 150K extended warranty) .......and mind you, I have not taken what Mr. Rob SJ says as Gospel truth either, but have done my own research, which includes visiting a ton of websites including www.vtec.net, the CL and TL forums, Odyssey forums, as well as talking to at least 15 Acura owners, as well as sales & service people at 6 different dealerships .....yes, I do go to extraordinary lengths ;) .......All my findings confirm at least 75-80% of what he says is true .........Haven't been able to confirm any MDX transmission failures, but I've not seen any with over 20K miles on them either.....so the information (or lack thereof) does not tell me anything, and besides, I'm more interested in what would happen to my MDX at 100K miles and more importantly what I can do to prevent it. - AND THAT'S WHERE THE OPEN-MINDEDNESS OF MEMBERS TO DEAL WITH THE NEGATIVES TOGETHER WITH THE POSITIVES BECOMES SO IMPORTANT.....and as Ard put it so well, the truth of this transmission issue is "somewhere in the middle" .....That's the primary reason why a bit of "educated speculation" becomes very helpful in the absence of cold, hard numbers.
So what's the bottom line?? ......I don't give a dam* if someone like Mr. Rob SJ hates Acura vehicles (that's his opinion and I respect it)......but, by the same token, I wouldn't touch an American brand vehicle (which he owns) with a ten-foot barge pole, because even with all it's shortcomings Acuras are still far superior in reliability and quality than any American vehicle can ever be (and that's my opinion)........but all the same, I appreciate the info he provides us on Acura and the MDX in particular, and assimilate, disect and use it towards my own benefit. Besides this, my own research and verification from other sources, has indicated that most of what he's posted is accurate, and that's the reason I would be inclined to believe what he has to say.
As a matter of fact, one of the chief reasons for me to go ahead with my plan to get an '03 MDX (In spite of the transmission scare, which I was very disturbed by) was the existence of this very informative forum, as a sort of reassurance that in the event something does go wrong I'd have a place to go to for information, with the ability to confidently combat the dealer's standard "it's a normal characterisic of the vehicle" responses. So, let's keep it that way without the need for "wanting someone's head" just because they happened to say something negative about the vehicle of YOUR choice, of course, provided there is no unethical behavior like name calling, personal attacks etc.
And BTW, Ard, I commend you for speaking up for what you believe in!! :29: |
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| A2MDXer |
quote:
Originally posted by msu79gt82
Rob provides a wealth of information and obviously he must like chatting about the vehicles he works on. That said I question why he came into our forums with his guns flaming? What was the point? Why does he feel the need to put "An Acura mechanic that will never own one...believe it." in his signature.
If he truly enjoys his work and he truly enjoys talking about it, why couldn't he come in an introduce himself and volunteer his expertise? Rob could have joined and introduced himself, tell us what he did for a living, and volunteer his knowledge without the attitude. The knowledge is welcome, the attitude we can do without. I'm not interested in putting down his choice of vehicles, why does he want to put down mine?
EXACTLY!!!! In the age of the Internet, it is easy to share one's opinion without tact. That's fine, but I respect the opinions of others that are able to express their views by garnering some respect and listening as well. He may indeed have good and accurate info and I would rather see it shared (as it had been) rather than swept under a rug. He certainly didn't make his point persuasive to most of us. There are many members here that make their points (yes, even negative ones) with more tact and persuasion. I think it is useful to have him around but I do not respect his opinion - at least not yet. Respect is earned (not merely by signing on and throwing out opinions). Take, for example, wmquan who frequently points out weaknesses with the MDX (granted, more minor ones). Most of us respect his opinion greatly because his posts are well reasoned, thoughtful and supported by facts. I am not saying The RobSJ is a bad guy with evil intentions and inaccurate info - but he certainly could have made his points in a more effective manner. The image of a bull in a china shop sticks in my head. |
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| A2MDXer |
quote:
Originally posted by remery
I don't mind contrary opinions but the transmission wars degrading into out right mudslinging doesn't belong on this or any site. I am on this site primarily for enjoyment so when I see numerous negative posts that are based upon limited facts or pure opinion, I react negatively also. You don't go to church to lecture the congregation on the virtues of atheism!
Kind of like a person visiting your house and saying that your decor is ugly and in bad taste ("I would never have that in my house"). That person (or in this case, that thread) would be shown the door. |
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| A2MDXer |
quote:
Originally posted by vicpai
AND THAT'S WHERE THE OPEN-MINDEDNESS OF MEMBERS TO DEAL WITH THE NEGATIVES TOGETHER WITH THE POSITIVES BECOMES SO IMPORTANT.....and as Ard put it so well, the truth of this transmission issue is "somewhere in the middle" .....That's the primary reason why a bit of "educated speculation" becomes very helpful in the absence of cold, hard numbers.
let's keep it that way without the need for "wanting someone's head" just because they happened to say something negative about the vehicle of YOUR choice, of course, provided there is no unethical behavior like name calling, personal attacks etc.
Yes, I agree there is no need to resort to name calling and personal attacks - some people do a little too defensive. On the other hand, nothing wrong with questioning a new poster's motives when he or she begins with guns blazing. |
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| hondacuraworld |
I'm scratching my head this morning and wondering why I went through all of the effort to try to dig up more info on the transmission question. Also wondering how my info that came right from a real human being (not a spokesman) can be completely discounted, and RobSJ's information can be taken as complete fact by many people here. I think I'm just going to go back to selling accessories.
Rob, it's all you now. Good luck. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by hondacuraworld
I'm scratching my head this morning and wondering why I went through all of the effort to try to dig up more info on the transmission question. Also wondering how my info that came right from a real human being (not a spokesman) can be completely discounted, and RobSJ's information can be taken as complete fact by many people here. I think I'm just going to go back to selling accessories.
Rob, it's all you now. Good luck.
Tim, in my estimation most of the 'above' discussion in this topic is rehash.
I would not confuse taking your information for granted, with discounting it. I believe I speak on behalf of the majority of this forum when I state that. I don't know of one instance when MOST of us did not value your opinion or efforts. I am most grateful as I am sure are the others. Your response on the trans debacle was the biggest factor that terminated the endless arguing back and forth. The deletion of posting was secondary, and less effective, if even necessary. What's dribbling out now in no way negates any of that. I got my vest on today, ready to take that bullet. Must be that 2nd cup of coffee...anyway here's to ya bud !
:7: |
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| msu79gt82 |
quote:
Originally posted by vicpai
For the record, I find myself strongly agreeing with Ardvarkus, Srpbep, MDX350 and all others who are looking for THE FACTS and not just hyperbole and praise!!.
If anyone will honestly and objectively read my posts, you will see I am very close to this position as well! The membership HAS dealt with the facts (thud, weeping mirrors, BellTech's problem, etc, etc.) If this organization sought to hide real problems with the MDX then why do we have a Problems Forum?:rolleyes: What I object to is the attidude of those who do NOT like Acura or the MDX! Why are they here?
What's with the attitude TheRobJ? I quote: "I will be changing my sig. line soon, but it isn't going to make you any happier when you see it." If you enjoy your work and like discussing cars why can't you do it in a more civil manner? I would like your expertise on my car, but I do not want a lecture from you on how stupid I was to buy it! |
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| msu79gt82 |
quote:
Originally posted by MDX350
... whatever information we get would be BLOODY DAMN authentic, but you wouldn't get anything then, NOTHING, not one of us would post anything, and this forum would die.
... but I will venture to say that if the site is "ruined" so that MDX owners/enthusiasts no longer want come here and support the advertisers (e.g. Tim) then "this forum would die." |
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| A2MDXer |
quote:
Originally posted by hondacuraworld
I'm scratching my head this morning and wondering why I went through all of the effort to try to dig up more info on the transmission question. Also wondering how my info that came right from a real human being (not a spokesman) can be completely discounted, and RobSJ's information can be taken as complete fact by many people here. I think I'm just going to go back to selling accessories.
Rob, it's all you now. Good luck.
Tim, your views are very welcome and well respected. Some people may question your loyalties on occassion b/c you are a dealer but I think you have demonstrated that you are honest and willing to dig to get to the truth. Thanks again.:D
By the way, I should mention that I did not follow the initiall "transmission problems" thread closely (b/c it looked like it might be troll material initially) so if I have missed any key details/postings along the way I apologize. I chimed in b/c I just could not remain silent. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by A2MDXer
I chimed in b/c I just could not remain silent.
That is symptomatic of a 'problem' we all have from time to time! :31: |
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| A2MDXer |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
That is symptomatic of a 'problem' we all have from time to time! :31:
Should I open up a new thread in the problems section???:p |
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| ByeByeChrysler |
famous quote
" can we all jus get along "
R. King
:rolleyes: |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by A2MDXer
Should I open up a new thread in the problems section???:p
NO NO !!! Anything but that!!!:eek: :13: :14: |
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| remery |
quote:
Originally posted by hondacuraworld
...Also wondering how my info that came right from a real human being (not a spokesman) can be completely discounted, and RobSJ's information can be taken as complete fact by many people here...
Tim,
Your information has not been completely discounted, it's just that you rarely see postings from the mostly silent majority with whom you have gained a high degree of respect. You provided statistical evidence to offset what was primarily anecdotal information or that which applied to other Acura models that don't share the same drive train as the MDX (VTM-4). Common sense not automotive expertise is all that is needed to discern the difference. There are 14 or so members that have participated so far in this thread. With over 5,000 members in the forum, this number is not statistically significant so don't give up you moderator position just yet!;) |
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| 1JB |
Tim -For the record I posted two Replies to your post supporting your efforts and pointing out my concerns with TheRobSJ's posts. Both posts were deleted shortly after they were posted for some unexplained reason. I used no profanity and simply invited others to review his posts and see if they reached the same conclusions as I. I also questioned how the forum could give such credibility to a member of just a few weeks by making them a Senior Member and asked that my name be removed from the forum.
As you can also see my request to have my name deleted from the forum has not been honored. It makes one wonder how accurate the "over 5000" membership number really is. A quick scroll through "member" list and review of the number of posts by each member is interesting. I think there a quite of few of us who are simply driving their MDXs and loving them; not posting every issue they can think of here. I still request that my name be deleted as I do not want to lend any support to a forum that lends such credibility to flamers. I am however glad that I checked back in so that I could tell you how appreciative I am of your sticking your neck out.
As to the "transmission problem" I invite others to investigate it as I have done and not rely on a the statements of a single member whether they are a Senior Member or not. |
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| admin |
I just wanted to make a point about the purpose of this site. Here is a bit of a history lesson. After doing some research on SUVs in the summer of 2000, my buddy and I both decided to go with the MDX (I accidentally stumbled on a rare review of it, and said "that's the one!").
After the purchase (November 2000), I said, well wouldn't it be nice to have a place similar to maxima.org (my trade-in) where the owners would hang out, and prospective owners would find information. But I wanted to make things different. First idea, after being pissed off at some of the dealers (including my buddy having trouble receiving his deposit back), I decided to create a dealer rating section. Its purpose was to help prospective owners to be aware of good and bad sales people, and for existing owners to stay away from bad service shops. 1,693 ratings and counting.
Next thing that hit me was, hey, by buying a new model in its first
year I will definitely see some problems (as our friend puts it, "hey,
you're buying a first public beta version"). Why not write some software
to organize this information. And hence, knowledge base section was created.
And then, by adding forums, I thought that if hey, you wanted to talk about things, be my guest. Little did I know....
So, as you can see, the initial purpose of the site was to talk about problems and bad dealership experiences. All of our members are aware of these problems, they are all nicely laid down in the knowledge base section (where I don't see a single transmission failure) and dealer ratings. And we have a dedicated forum for problems only.
So I have to agree with A2MDXer when he says, and I quote "... I respect the opinions of others that are able to express their views by garnering some respect and listening as well...". That's what our site has grown into. A respectful community. And I, as its owner, would do my best to keep it that way. Hope everyone else would do too.
Over and out.
Daniel (admin). |
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| rghouz01 |
As you can tell by the number of posts, I'm a "lurker" on this site. But, I've been quite an avid reader. For the most part, it's been extremely informative and helped me decide to place a deposit on an '03 RR/navi/res X.
On one side of the spectrum, I haven't purchased anything from Tim but feel very confident with his integrity and honesty and wouldn't hesitate to place an order. He's earned the respect. :6:
I also value RobSJ's input and feel it definetly has a place here. I may question his approach and attitude, but this forum would be lacking without it.:4:
I hope neither one "goes away".
As far as everyone else in between, you all are awesome :29: and a wealth of information. Well, ok, opinions...
I agree with A2MDXer: "... I respect the opinions of others that are able to express their views by garnering some respect and listening as well...". |
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| TheRobSJ |
quote:
...Also wondering how my info that came right from a real human being (not a spokesman) can be completely discounted, and RobSJ's information can be taken as complete fact by many people here...
My info came from a real human being too. Me! ("barely a human being" I'm sure some of you may be thinking, but I don't care)
Tim, I really don't want to keep going back and forth, but since you brought it up again... Your info came from someone at AHM. And that person's info came from someone else, or some report. My info came from what I saw with my very own eyes. And I'm willing to trust my own vision more than what anyone writes or says to me. You've been told a total of 4 MDX transmissions for August (which I'm assuming you meant nationwide)with a potental of 50% of that from collision damage, and I physically saw 5 at just my own dealer. And of the 21 or so we've done so far, I don't think a single one was from collision. If our body shop has done some, they did it in their own seperate shop. Then there's the other tangent we got off on about the squeak tape. I don't know how everyone else sided, nor do I really care, but how does it look when a parts guy tries to tell a service guy what a "proper repair" is? And that's the part that really got me, to use my own term, butt-hurt. I guess it doesn't much matter if I lose repect for you, seeing as how I'd never need your services (I can pay DealerNet for my parts if I ever needed Honda parts).
Rob |
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| inperson |
TheRobSJ.....will you ever stop?????
I am one of those silent majority that browsed and read the postings and thanksfull for all the information.
I tried not to get into this thread, but after reading TheRobSJ previous posting I NEED to get something off my chest..
The RobSJ..WILL YOU EVER STOP: 1) personally attack Tim and 2) try to revise a dead issue..e.g squeak tape and tranny.
Tim was just trying to point out that why so many members in this forum still have fears about tranny on the MDX when there are no real evidence pointing to tranny failures on MDX. He was not talking to anyone in particular..so why do you have to single him out..so now I am single you out.. :mad:
I think there is enough discussion about tranny...only time will tell if you are wright or not. I think most if not all (including myself) appreciated the information you provide to us...what we dislike is the attitude that you bring with it,...and that start from your signature and now the latest attack on Tim on old issues when he is not attacking you.
In my book you are always welcome here in this forum..but I think it would be better for all if you leave your attitude in your american made truck and not bring it here to this forum...
This being said..I think that ALL of us should go back and devote our time here on something more useful in this forum rather than discussing someone attitude.. |
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| TheRobSJ |
quote:
if you leave your attitude in your american made truck
Speaking of attitude...
Once again, what does what I drive have to do with anything? Could be just another crack from a psuedo-elitist type who looks down in some way or another on anyone who could possibly choose an American branded vehicle over the mighty MDX? No? Not even close? Could be that you threw the American part in there just because you thought someone else out there who's been living under a rock doesn't know what country Chevrolet comes from? No? How about this? You're wrong. My truck was made in Canada.
What's a dead issue? Tim brought it up again by wondering how he fels his information could have been discounted. I reminded you all why that might have happened.
Rob |
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| MDX350 |
quote:
Originally posted by TheRobSJ
You've been told a total of 4 MDX transmissions for August (which I'm assuming you meant nationwide)with a potental of 50% of that from collision damage, and I physically saw 5 at just my own dealer. And of the 21 or so we've done so far, I don't think a single one was from collision.
Rob
I presume Rob is talking about MDX tranny's, not CL/TL when he mentioned the numbers above. If so, then either
1. Rob is lying.
OR
2. The Honda representative lied to Tim.
Both cannot be right.
This is disturbing. If Rob is lying, we are all fine. If not, then there's a serious problem - there are 80,000 MDX's out there with the defective tranny, even if 1.6% of them fail, its a LOT. |
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| socalJD |
quote:
Originally posted by 1JB
. . . I also questioned how the forum could give such credibility to a member of just a few weeks by making them a Senior Member . . .
. . . I still request that my name be deleted as I do not want to lend any support to a forum that lends such credibility to flamers.
Just to set the record straight - Admin did not 'make' anyone a senior member, member status or 'stars' are attained after a certain number of posts. See this thread as reference. So becoming a Senior Member is a function of the quantity of your posts and not quality of the posts. (ref: Grand Master, King of All Posters, Super Duper Senior Member Daleb)
As to not supporting this forum, so be it, to each their own, but I'm not sure your choosen course of action will help you in the long run. I suspect that your stance on principle will relax the next time you have a strange or odd experience related to the X in which case I'm sure the membership will welcome you back. Who knows, if you stick around long enough, you too will become a 'Senior Member' . . .
Oh btw, 'props' to the Admin for his prior post. As a relative newbie myself, I often wondered how this forum came to be - somehow I imagined that much alcohol, scantily clad young co-eds and loud rock 'n roll music played a major role . . . :eek: :rolleyes: :p |
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| TheRobSJ |
What reasoning do I have to lie? Ask yourselves that. Sure I get a laugh out of seeing everyone get their feathers puffed up, but I could have gotten that by just being me with my lovely "attitude" and not give out a single number regarding how many units have been replaced at my dealer.
And before you all get scared, I'm almost certain that it was our hot summer that caused so many failures. Some of you that live in the cooler parts of the country probably have much lower fail rates.
Rob |
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| admin |
This thread has gotten off topic again. Please continue your tranny discussions here. Please, let us keep things organized.
admin. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by socalJD
So becoming a Senior Member is a function of the quantity of your posts and not quality of the posts. (ref: Grand Master, King of All Posters, Super Duper Senior Member Daleb)
Thanks for not calling me a 'POST Master'.
But this ongoing topic gives me a Super Headache. |
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| mdxxxx |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
Thanks for not calling me a 'POST Master'.
LOL!:19: |
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| archimedes1 |
I've been reading this thread for days and debating if I want to chime in or not. As I'm finding that this topic keeps crossing my mind at random times, I figured I should speak my mind...
I think that with the posts that are here so far, most opinions in the spectrum have been expressed, and I find truth and value in each of them (excepting the personal attacks).
Perhaps now is the time to summarize those things that we agree on, and work on a solution for future occurences, so we can put this topic to bed...
In reading the posts, would you all agree on the following?
- Most people on this site like the MDX, but I don't think I've come across anyone who is so starry-eyed as to think the MDX is perfect.
- MANY problems and solutions are posted here - many of which were derived from a lot of collaboration between users on this forum.
- Most users on this forum make an effort to be welcoming and courteous. I've been surprised at how many people have politely suggested searches, or even provided thread links, to newbies who jumped into asking questions without first browsing.
- Most people on this site have carefully researched their choice of the MDX, so it's natural that they won't take kindly to people who are harshly critical with little or no substantiation. I've actually seen a couple of threads when people have been harshly critical, but with good reason (e.g., major failure or bad service), and no one was offended in those cases.
It also seems that most people agree that censorship isn't a desirable thing, either, although I think people understand Daniel (Admin), too, and his need to maintain a reasonable environment for the majority of users (a la the restaurant analogy that was used earlier). I also think that we realize that no one can please everyone all of the time.
I think we as users can be much more effective than Daniel in managing the few bad apples that may be on this site. Ultimately, the "troll" types are looking to rile people up. If we let ourselves be riled, then they've won. Even if they go far enough to get Daniel to censor or ban them, so they can't continue, the damage is done.
Going forward, I suggest that if a poster just wants to bash the MDX to get a reaction, we shouldn't respond. Then they've lost, and with the lack of reaction they were hoping for, will likely give up tryin | | | |
