| tbyrne |
I recently did the first oil change in my MDX. What was Acura/Honda thinking when they designed the drain plug and filter location?
I've done probably 100 oil changes on the last 5 Hondas we have owned without ever having a problem. I did my first on the MDX and the oil wanted to go all over the place. Since it is oriented horizontally, the drain plug shoots the oil towards the rear rather than down. Thankfully, I guessed correctly on the angle it would drain and didn't spill any, but it would have been a mess if I hadn't lifted and angled the collecting container.
Then, I unscrew the filter, which is oriented vertically. Once it broke the seal, oil spilled all over the filter and my hand because it couldn't drain from the filter until it was removed.
I think they got it backwards - the drain should drop oil DOWN, not out and the filter should unscrew OUT, not down!!! :confused: |
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| rvehock |
quote:
Originally posted by tbyrne
I've done probably 100 oil changes on the last 5 Hondas we have owned without ever having a problem.
What other Honda vehicles did you have? My son has a 1996 Civic that is more of a pain to change the oil and filter than either my MDX or my wifes 3.2TL. |
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| remery |
tbyrne,
Your experiences are why I quit changing my oil several years ago. Also, disposing of the old oil is much more of a pain than it used to be. I let others now change my oil and gladly pay the $25 or so to have them do it. If you still want to continue to do it yourself, I hope you use Honda filters and get replacement drain plug washers. I provide both to oil change places if I don't have it done at an Acura dealer. You can order this stuff from Tim at Hondacuraworld and save a few bucks rather than buying from the dealers directly. Another reason I don't change it myself is at 7,500 drain intervals, I only have to do it twice a year which diminishes the savings of doing it yourself. Just a couple of thoughts for you that might help. |
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| tbyrne |
rvehock,
We have had an '89 Civic (140,000 mi), a '91 Accord (135,000 mi), a '95 Civic (12,000 mi before being totalled), a '96 Accord (130,000 mi) and a '97 CR-V (110,000 mi). I regularly changed the oil on all of them and while access was a bit tougher, changes were cleaner since the drain plugs were angled down and since the filter did not have a slug of oil above it waiting to drop out onto the filter once loosened. Those filters dropped maybe half an ounce of oil when loosened - if you were careful, you could get it in the pan and not on the filter or your hand/arm. The MDX's filter dropped 3-4x that and there was no way to avoid having it pour all over the old filter, your hand and the floor (which I had fortunately covered with a flattened cardboard box).
It just struck me as poor design, which is surprising considering how well designed Honda products usually are. Then again, those spark plugs on previous Hondas were a pain to remove and replace. . . . :) |
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| ardvarkus |
quote:
Originally posted by tbyrne
I recently did the first oil change in my MDX. What was Acura/Honda thinking when they designed the drain plug and filter location?
I've done probably 100 oil changes on the last 5 Hondas we have owned without ever having a problem. I did my first on the MDX and the oil wanted to go all over the place. Since it is oriented horizontally, the drain plug shoots the oil towards the rear rather than down. Thankfully, I guessed correctly on the angle it would drain and didn't spill any, but it would have been a mess if I hadn't lifted and angled the collecting container.
Then, I unscrew the filter, which is oriented vertically. Once it broke the seal, oil spilled all over the filter and my hand because it couldn't drain from the filter until it was removed.
I think they got it backwards - the drain should drop oil DOWN, not out and the filter should unscrew OUT, not down!!! :confused:
Nope, IMHO wrong on both counts:
If the drain plug points down, it needs to be at the lowest point...this makes it too susceptible to mechanical damage (like getting sheared off)
Then on the filter...if it is pointed down, it will drain when turned off. It woud then add to the oil starvation that bearings see on start up. By keeping the fluid in the filter it ensures the bearing will see oil pressure sooner.
I just turn the stearing wheel to the right and get at the filter behind the tire. Break it loose, spin it off fast, not much of a mess. Take a screwdriver and punch a hole and drain it if you need to.
BTW, my F259 filter ALONE holds 1.5qts. That REALLY sucks if you drop that one...
Ard |
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| rlm32 |
| I learned this trick recently. Just put a large ziploc bag around the filter and then take the filter. Any oild should spill inside the bag and then you can close it off. haven't tried it but sounds logical. |
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| TheRobSJ |
MDX/Pilot/Oddy can be messy, but is still nothing compared to the RSX. That makes an insane mess.
And I still think the Acura Vigor or 2.5TL takes the cake as the worst Honda I've have to do. Prelude SH is pretty bad and messy too if the engine is hot.
You guys want a nice trick for your MDX? Use a bungee cord to hold the splash shield away. Then use a punch or get really pissed and use a screwdriver and just stab straight through the center of the oil filter, through the check valve, and let it all drain out through the little hole. After a couple minutes, you can spin it off without any spill over. And don't forget to take the bungee cord off! I've seen someone do that and need a new splash shield.
Rob |
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| Dale MDX |
| One simple suggestion for anyone that uses Rob's trick of punching a hole in the filter to drain its oil: Before doing that, make sure that the filter is going to come off. Unscrew it a little ways before punching the hole. Otherwise, you run a small chance of having a disabled MDX with a stuck-on filter. Rare, maybe, but it could happen. In my experience, brand new cars can have filters that are over-tightened, and you never know how tight an oil change place is going to get it. My MDX was too tight to remove by hand and required a filter wrench. I've had vehicles where I ran a screwdriver through the filter for leverage, and it still wasn't easy. |
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| Neicho |
Wow,
And I thought I was the only one that was going to complain about the Oil change mess. SHAME on you ACURA. Guess they want us to take them to the dealer. Might be a good tactic. But not gonna do it. Will complain every 3000 miles. Will try the bungee cord trick or just rip off the splash shield.. |
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| xyzzy |
I hate to disagree here, but I've changed the oil in all the vehicles my wife and I have ever had and this (Pilot/MDX) is probably the easiest one. The drain plug is in a spot that has easy access without being crowded and the filter is right on bottom oriented vertically. Many filters are about halfway up the engine compartment and oriented at an angle. When you unscrew the filter it leaks all over various framing members and even exhaust components. This one is cake compared to what I've had in the past. I saw the configuration and was grinning from ear to ear.
Chris |
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| ardvarkus |
quote:
Originally posted by xyzzy
. I saw the configuration and was grinning from ear to ear.
Chris
Really... not sure what others are comparing this to... the only reason I actually even jack the car up is to get enought swing on the torque wrench to get the drain plug tightened. Otherwise duck soup without even raising the car up...
BTW, you guys are using the end cap 3/8" drive oil filter wrench/socket- not the strap type- right? I can't recall the splash shield being in the way....
Ard |
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| Robyjo |
The only time I noticed the shield in the way was when I unscrewed the filter, and the oil poured onto/into the lip of the shield. Otherwise, I didn't really see the need to move the shield either...
Rob:31: |
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| HrdTsk |
quote:
Originally posted by remery
tbyrne,
Your experiences are why I quit changing my oil several years ago. Also, disposing of the old oil is much more of a pain than it used to be. I let others now change my oil and gladly pay the $25 or so to have them do it. If you still want to continue to do it yourself, I hope you use Honda filters and get replacement drain plug washers. I provide both to oil change places if I don't have it done at an Acura dealer. You can order this stuff from Tim at Hondacuraworld and save a few bucks rather than buying from the dealers directly. Another reason I don't change it myself is at 7,500 drain intervals, I only have to do it twice a year which diminishes the savings of doing it yourself. Just a couple of thoughts for you that might help.
If I may ask in your experience....
Why use Honda filters?
Why replace the washer twice a year? |
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| srpbep |
Filter: I'll pass on the filter question because I have no facts [but I DO use the Honda filters on our cars].
Drain Plug Washer: This is a "crush type design" that deforms [compresses] to provide a "drip free" seal without the need to really torque it down. It is designed to be used once and only once. I understand that some reuse this but IMHO this is silly [they are cheap] and appear to achieve their design objective. |
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| ardvarkus |
quote:
Originally posted by msc1099
If you change your own oil, how do you prove you properly maintained your X in the event of a warranty claim?:1:
I've had some written communication with Acura on this...
They said save your receipts for parts and oil/fluid, and keep 'records'. I keep a bound book which lists gas usage, mileage, fluid checks and all service. I include both my own work and dealer service (warranty). I actually have 'worksheets' I use for each maintenance, listing fluid levels, brake pad thicknesses, etc. I fill this out in the garage, then update the book later. I save the worksheet as a 'source record'. I've got a different worksheet for each vehicle, it helps guide me through the required stuff for each car. Usually one Sat morning each month.
Obsessively yours,
Ard |
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| mgmdx |
quote:
Originally posted by ardvarkus
I've had some written communication with Acura on this...
They said save your receipts for parts and oil/fluid, and keep 'records'. I keep a bound book which lists gas usage, mileage, fluid checks and all service. I include both my own work and dealer service (warranty). I actually have 'worksheets' I use for each maintenance, listing fluid levels, brake pad thicknesses, etc. I fill this out in the garage, then update the book later. I save the worksheet as a 'source record'. I've got a different worksheet for each vehicle, it helps guide me through the required stuff for each car. Usually one Sat morning each month.
Obsessively yours,
Ard
And I thought I was the only one who is "Type A" personality. My wife gives me hard time about it and says that I'm anal-retentive. I call myself organized.
In addition to keeping a binder for each car that contains all receipts, workorders, notes, pictures, etc. I also keep a separate spreadsheet for each vehicle that I own. The spreadsheet is basically a summary (in chronological order) of what's contained in the binder). It lists the date, mileage, what was done, type of maintenance (service, repair, or accessory), facility that performed the service, and cost. Keeping cost totals helps me see my annual expenses for each car. If necessary, I can filter or sort the spredsheet to see different types of expenses that I incurred (i.e. regular service vs. repair vs. accessories).
This has worked for me pretty well for approximately 20 years. |
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| ardvarkus |
quote:
Originally posted by mgmdx
And I thought I was the only one who is "Type A" personality. My wife gives me hard time about it and says that I'm anal-retentive. I call myself organized.
In addition to keeping a binder for each car that contains all receipts, workorders, notes, pictures, etc. I also keep a separate spreadsheet for each vehicle that I own. The spreadsheet is basically a summary (in chronological order) of what's contained in the binder). It lists the date, mileage, what was done, type of maintenance (service, repair, or accessory), facility that performed the service, and cost. Keeping cost totals helps me see my annual expenses for each car. If necessary, I can filter or sort the spredsheet to see different types of expenses that I incurred (i.e. regular service vs. repair vs. accessories).
This has worked for me pretty well for approximately 20 years.
I suspect there are a few of us....
Your 'binder' is the same as my 'sewn/bound' book. Bound books, completed in ink, are nice to use as legal evidence. Think of it as a 'lab notebook'. Hard to modify by removing/replacing pages, so it is more difficult to discount entries and reports.
Point being that, either way, Acura (or any of the other mfgs I've dealt with) look at my records and don't give them a second thought. I also adds instant credibility to you as a mechanic/owner... (anybody nutty enough to do this with the records must be fastidious about the actual maintenance...)
Ard |
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| DaleB |
I file everything chronologically, as I do with warranties and receipts for appliances, computers, etc...other pricey items.
I have had very few warranty claims over many years. But when I did everything was just handled fine.
Sometimes I changed my own oil and just wrote the mileage in the car's coupon book. Not really a big deal.
Now that I don't change fluids, dealers have been able to show me or print records of my history quicker than I could blink. Even where I go for tires, they have history on cars I don't even have any more. I had to get them to purge one.
Keeping all receipt and mileage records are all that's really essential.
On our minivan they still had the history from the previous owner's maintenance.
If you think about it, they have records to show you did NOT maintain your vehicle if that's the case. So anything you do on your own or elsewhere, you better have records.
The history is good for tracking problems too, not just for warranty compliance. |
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| mdxxxx |
quote:
Originally posted by ardvarkus
I suspect there are a few of us....
Your 'binder' is the same as my 'sewn/bound' book. Bound books, completed in ink, are nice to use as legal evidence. Think of it as a 'lab notebook'. Hard to modify by removing/replacing pages, so it is more difficult to discount entries and reports.
Point being that, either way, Acura (or any of the other mfgs I've dealt with) look at my records and don't give them a second thought. I also adds instant credibility to you as a mechanic/owner... (anybody nutty enough to do this with the records must be fastidious about the actual maintenance...)
Ard
Another checking in. I've been using MS Money to help organize not only auto records, but household inventory, automate various bank and brokerage account info, and categorize them. Makes it very easy at tax time. Just run a report. I'ts nice having a wealth of info consolodated this way.
:4: |
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| mgmdx |
| Another option for keeping a summary of maintenance/mileage records that's available for those with Palm Pilots is a program called Mobile Autolog (v1.2). This program allows you to setup several cars and to keep track of expenses associated with gas, service, and payments. It also calculates your average MPG for selected timeframe, as well as expenses for specific categories (gas, service, payments) during that timeframe. |
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| srpbep |
Ard ... addressing your concern that the record needs to be bound:
(1) I keep the records on a computer [date, mileage, service item, cost, who did, etc.]. Lots of stuff can then be done easily [pull up "all oil changes", etc.].
(2) I keep all receipts in a folder [separate folder for each vehicle], receipts filed in chronological order.
I recently [2 years ago] did a dance with an auto maker [won't tell you it was Honda]. Well, I could answer any question real easy:
** Electrical problems addressed on date-1, date-2, etc.
** Radio installed on date-x.
** yada yada yada
They then challenged "let's see receipts". Since receipts were filed chonologically, I could produce them as fast as they could ask.
So, lack of a "bound book" was not an issue, my "facts" were quickly accepted. When I countered for "their facts", the credibility "tug of war" was over. |
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| ardvarkus |
quote:
Originally posted by srpbep
Ard ... addressing your concern that the record needs to be bound:
I do it, but I don't think it is necessary. (And I apologize if I sounded like it was a 'requirement'.)
Professionally, I've dealt with records systems for medical device developement, manufacturing, and quality assurance- we are pretty strict on documentation. So for me, keeping a notebook is no sweat.
IMHO, receipts showing the parts were purchased at some reaonable time and some kind of note describing the work done will be fine.
Ard |
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| srpbep |
ard,
Thanks for responding ... the keys are "thoroughness, accuracy, consistency, and receipts".
Now that we have agreed to do it differenty, I guess I would suggest your system to any/all who aren't chained to their computer like I am!!
enjoy ... Steven |
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| Robyjo |
Hey Ard, Steven,
Here's another thought--what about keeping service records on the Acura owner's link website? I know you're depending on their backups and longevity of the site then, but I think these are relatively safe. I just entered the first service I did myself on the site, though I also created a db for this purpose on my pc as well...
Just a thought... |
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| srpbep |
Robjyo,
I would NOT depend on them:
** Should you have a warranty issue and this was "critical", then I would not want to depend upon Acura/Honda.
** Now let me go to my "black hole outlook" [what can I say, I have an operations unit at work], say you are in a lemon law case -- here, you DEFINATELY [IMNSHO] do NOT want to depend upon them!! I would not want to run the risk of my records suddenly going bye bye.
Sorry for the pessimistic outlook but some times this is a strength. Use Ard's method, use my method, but use one you own and control. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by Robyjo
Hey Ard, Steven,
Here's another thought--what about keeping service records on the Acura owner's link website? I know you're depending on their backups and longevity of the site then, but I think these are relatively safe. I just entered the first service I did myself on the site, though I also created a db for this purpose on my pc as well...
Just a thought...
I think it's good idea for quick referenece. I would still keep all my receipts and do a copy/paste for all the info on the Acura site to a Word document you can file away. |
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| mdxxxx |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
I think it's good idea for quick referenece. I would still keep all my receipts and do a copy/paste for all the info on the Acura site to a Word document you can file away.
Good Idea. Sometimes due diligence may have redundancies. :4: |
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