| VWDogma |
I have narrowed my search of a premium SUV down to two choices: the MDX Touring with Nav and the X5 3.0i. My main criteria for making a final decision is: driveability (I want to have fun driving the vehicle!), performance, comfort, and styling.
I know a lot of those criteria are subjective, but can someone post a comparison of both vehicles (facts and opinions are welcome)? I like the MDX's price ($40K?), styling and features, and roomy interior; however I do not like the fact that it is not offered with a manual transmission. This is one of the main drawbacks and why I like the X5. I also like the way the X5 handles and the performance is great. However, all that comes at a price ($50K?) and it's kinda small.
Please chime in with facts and opinions! |
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| 02SSmdx |
I think you said it all. The MDX rides very nicely. I handle great for it's size, but you will not get the same "performance" handling you would get from the X5 with the sport package.
The other thing you should consider, which I'm sure you have but didn't mention, would be what conditions will you be driving the car? If you're in an area where you will need better off road abilities, then you might go with the MDX.
I picked the MDX cause of its size and ability to seat 7 in a pinch. It also provided the better bang for the buck. Also, I looked down the road at the maintence costs of the car. European cars are notoriously expensive to maintain.
Both cars are quality cars. I would tell anyone that the MDX is a better car, but it all depends on you're needs.
Just to make life more difficult, have you looked at the Volvo XC90? It has similar characteristics to the MDX. We are probably going to look at one of them next year.
GOOD LUCK!
-WL |
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| doggiedog |
If driveability is #1 on your list, then it would definitely have to go the X5.
However, I am curious as to why that would be such a huge consideration in an SUV? Why not get a station wagon like an A4/S4/A6 Avant? You don't list off-roading, cargo capacity, roomyness, etc.
My decision to buy an MDX hinged on its 7 passenger seating ability otherwise I would have gone with a wagon.
As for the X5, one of my friends got his for about $41K I believe. He said it was a family edition or something like that. |
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| renov8r |
I have never seen one. I know that the 5 speed is technically available, but I haven't seen one in midwest. Ever. California might be different. So to could Kentucky.
The Steptronic is like a $1200 dollar option, and every one has had 'em...
You can get an X5 stripped with no moonroof and base seats for under $40k, but most that I've seen have at least the Premium Pkg which has leather seats and moonroof and few other trinkets and stickers for $44k. Discounting is happening now on 02s...
Is it worth nearly $10k more than the MDX? Not around my neighborhood. MDXs outnumber X5 4 to 1. The dealerships are two doors apart. The people around me have homes that cost from $500k to four times that, so I doubt money is the sole factor...
Yes, the X5 has a very taught ride. So far the taughtest of any vehicle that tall. BUT the 03 MDX is going to be STIFFER than the 02, which was a bit stiffer (due to thicker windshield) than the 01... The X5 with base engine is also SLOWER, has less Hp, less torque, worse fuel economy and bigger turning diameter. Factor in the reduced size/ulitity and its 'popularity' is self explanatory! |
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| kishino |
IMHO, the X5 and MDX cannot be compared.
Having driven a BMW before and also the X5. The X5 is a totally different animal from the MDX. If you are looking for value and utility then get the MDX, if you want driveablility and handling go with the X5. BTW, did you also take a look at the new VW Toureg. I heard that is suppose to be even better than the X5 in performance and can also tackel some of the rough stuff. |
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| msu79gt82 |
Put together a short list of the things you NEED (must have); e.g we needed seating for 7. Hence the X5 is out for our needs. If both vehicles truly meet your needs then its a game of wants vs. the price.
Not an answer; just a philosophy.:1: |
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| VWDogma |
Thanks all for your replies! Let me try and address some of your questions:
The first thing is that I will be driving this vehicle strictly on paved roads and maybe occasionally I may go on some field just for kicks and giggles. Where I live we have mild winters with average snowfalls < 5". So off-roading and extreme winters aren't crucial buying factors to me. However, one thing has been bugging me: When I test drove an MDX, the dealer mentioned that it is a front-wheeled drive vehicle that switches to 4 wheel either automatically or manually. :confused: So does this mean the MDX is not a true all-wheel drive vehicle? Can someone shine a light on this, please?
Someone mentioned buying a wagon. I currently own a VW Passat wagon and I love that car! Actually, I have a Passat sedan as well, but that's probably the car I will trade for either MDX or X5. Seating capacity is not an issue either, since my wife and I don't have any kids and don't plan on having any for a couple of years at least.
I definitely think the XC90 has some potential! Maybe it'll become avavailable before I make my final decision! ;) The Touareg is nice too, but honestly I am trying to slowly break away from my total VW dependence... (their service is notoriously bad :( )
As for the price of the X5, the particular configuration that I would want (in order to be similarly equipped as the MDX) brings it to about $47-48K. It would include the Sport and Premium packages as well as sport seats, cold weather package, Xenons, etc. One notable exception is the navigation system, which is CD-based and is not all that good. Someone mentioned how rare X5's with manual trannies are. The BMW dealer told me he has sold only one manual tranny X5 since they've been out. Definitely a special order (3 months).
msu79gt82, unfortunately, we've tried that approach and I always end up at square one.. it's all about the wants at this point, since both cars pretty much fulfill the needs.
Thanks for all your comments. Please keep em coming! |
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| torchny |
Ulitmate driving machine with manual transmission seems to be what you want. No? :)
But honestly, I don't think the overall performance between X5 3.0 and MDX is that much of a difference. I think 4.4 should be your top choice even though it comes only with automatic transmission.
torchny |
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| vicpai |
.......the horrendous reliability record of the X5!! .......You might want to do a search on this subject (especially in BMW forums mentioned above)......there have been numerous incidents of X5s catching on fire (self combusting :eek: ). Consumer Reports did not include the X5 on their recommended list, even though it was their highest scoring vehicle, for THIS ONE REASON ALONE.
Even with all the "transmission hoopla" going on about Acura vehicles (which BTW, I'm willing to bet the ranch, has been fixed for the 2003 MDX), Honda/Acura products are still superior in terms of durability and reliability compared with BMWs (especially the X5 which is built in Spartanburg, SC :eek: )........Unlike the Japanese, the Germans have not learned how to build quality, reliable vehicles outside Germany,... well,... not that the German-built vehicles are shining examples of exemplary reliability, either :rolleyes: )
That said, Considering that the driving dynamics of the X5 are definitely superior to the MDX, and if you must have the "Ultimate driving machine", and are not concerned with the likelihood of having the vehicle constantly in the shop, the BMW might be the vehicle..........otherwise, if a trouble-free ownership experience is an essential part of the purchase, you would be well advised to stay away from the BMW, as if it were the plague.
I've test driven the MDX extensively, and the X5 2 or 3 times. As far as "driving fun" goes, both the MDX (2002 model) and X5 are a PLEASURE to drive!, the BMW, of course having superior handling. However, the MDX has a "peppier feel" to it's motor, and the 2003 model with revised suspension and steering settings, as well as 35% improved body rigidity will most likely come very close to matching the BMW. |
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| cardingtr |
Could'n't agree more Vicpai!
My friend has the X5 3.0. Its handling is better than MDX but its jittery on road holes and other irregularities. MDX is a compromise.
And the last time its in my driveway, the radio was disconnected by the dealer because its a fire hazard too. So he is driving around without a radio. i'm sure they already fix it. |
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| omarv |
| I had my Accord in for some maintenance this past week and borrowed my mother-in-law's X5 3.0. I found the engine to be noisy at times. It seemed that in the 30-40 mile and hour range, it was strained between gears. However, I found the driver's seat to be mighty comfortable. If I were to get the X5, I would want the 4.4. It's quite pricey, though. |
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| bareyb |
My question to you would be, why do you want an SUV? If you want "a driving machine" then I wouldn't get ANY SUV. None of them handle worth a damn if you've ever driven anything that DOES handle well. I have driven the BMW X5 and was not impressed at all. What you gain in handling, you lose in ride comfort. By their sheer nature, SUV's are just not going to handle all that well. As for the X5 there is no advantage to you to get that over a good sport sedan unless you just have a hankering to be part of the "SUV crowd". It's cargo capacity is little better than many trunks have. You are giving up alot of handling capability for not much gain in cargo capacity.
In my opinion it's more reasonable to expect an SUV to handle adequately at normal driving speeds. I would personally put my priority towards ride comfort over alledged "handling" ("SUV handling" is an oxymoron). It appears that for 2003 Acura HAS smoothed out the ride on the new MDX and I think this is a wise move. Why try to be something you're not? I say recognize your limitations and optimize your strengths. Most folks that buy a "luxury" SUV are looking for a comfortable "people and stuff mover". Many folks who buy them have Children and safety is a big factor (not how well they corner at high speeds). Today's SUV's handle amazingly well considering their purpose and intended drving habits. I think BMW has tried to do the best they can with the SUV platform to make it "a driving machine" but in the process have negated alot of what makes an SUV useful. I've always felt BMW was marketing their product to folks who want to be with the SUV "in crowd" but don't really need or want an SUV. |
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| srpbep |
I don't see how anyone can help you make your decision. If you really like the handling/feel of the X5 then you won't be happy with the MDX -- the ride/feel/handling is different. I must concur with others who ask you why an SUV if what you want is "sporty handling" ESPECIALLY when you don't cite the need for an SUV!!
Regarding buying an X5 with a manual transmission. There is a major caution flag that has been provided by the dealer:
"The BMW dealer told me he has sold only one manual tranny X5 since they've been out. Definitely a special order (3 months)."
Resale value is dramatically effected by the desirability of the vehicle. The fact that X5 owners don't buy manual transmissions IS A MESSAGE = X5 owners DON'T WANT MANUAL TRANSMISSIONS.
Therefore, you will be buying a vehicle that will have a very limited market when you go to sell the vehicle. Typically, that translates to a lower resale value:
** You can buy an RX300 without leather -- NOT recommended because it has a major negative impact on resale value.
** You can buy an ML without leather -- NOT recommended because it has a major negative impact on resale value.
I suggest you think about what you want and why -- then buy what you want.
Enjoy ... |
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| Robyjo |
quote:
Originally posted by bareyb
My question to you would be, why do you want an SUV? If you want "a driving machine" then I wouldn't get ANY SUV. None of them handle worth a damn if you've ever driven anything that DOES handle well. I have driven the BMW X5 and was not impressed at all. What you gain in handling, you lose in ride comfort. By their sheer nature, SUV's are just not going to handle all that well. As for the X5 there is no advantage to you to get that over a good sport sedan unless you just have a hankering to be part of the "SUV crowd". It's cargo capacity is little better than many trunks have. You are giving up alot of handling capability for not much gain in cargo capacity.
In my opinion it's more reasonable to expect an SUV to handle adequately at normal driving speeds. I would personally put my priority towards ride comfort over alledged "handling" ("SUV handling" is an oxymoron). It appears that for 2003 Acura HAS smoothed out the ride on the new MDX and I think this is a wise move. Why try to be something you're not? I say recognize your limitations and optimize your strengths. Most folks that buy a "luxury" SUV are looking for a comfortable "people and stuff mover". Many folks who buy them have Children and safety is a big factor (not how well they corner at high speeds). Today's SUV's handle amazingly well considering their purpose and intended drving habits. I think BMW has tried to do the best they can with the SUV platform to make it "a driving machine" but in the process have negated alot of what makes an SUV useful. I've always felt BMW was marketing their product to folks who want to be with the SUV "in crowd" but don't really need or want an SUV.
EXACTLY!! My sentiments exactly! Ditch the SUV and get an M3 or even better M5, or check out the S4 or 6 from Audi. Styling, comfort, and certainly performance for around the same dough...
Rob :31: |
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| pelucidor |
When I lived in NJ, every year I went to the driving events held by Mercedes, Lexus, BMW and Cadillac (usually got to compare all the manufactureers vehicles on a track against a few competitor's vehicles). This year I moved to Houston and have only managed to go to the BMW event so far - no competitors vehicles present but I did check out everything from BMW (Z3 2.5, Z3 3.0, 325i, 330i, 330i conv, X5 3.0, X5 4.4, 540i and 754i - about 20 mins to an hour in each). I was very unimpressed with how the X5 drove/handled compared to everything else by BMW.
As others have said if you really enjoy driving and have any choice in the matter then don't get an SUV (or a minivan like the ML320). If you have no choice in the matter (i.e. must have 4wd for off-roading) then there are better vehicles than the X5 (Range Rover, H2, Land Cruiser, LX470 etc).
If you must have an SUV for the space (like me) then note that the X5 has the least space of ANY mid-size SUV - any A6/S6 wagon or Allroad has far more (and 4wd to boot). The BMW X5 has 16.1 cu ft behind second row compared to the MDX with 49.6 cu ft behind second row (MDX has 14.8 behind THIRD row to give an example of how little space the X5 has - an A6 or E320 SEDAN has 15 cu ft in the trunk). Total passenger volume is 97.6 cu ft for the X5 compared to 161.5 cu ft for the MDX - even the tiny RX300 (which is smaller in every external dimension than X5) has 39.8 cu ft behind 2nd row and 100.8 cu ft total passenger volume. (All quoted comparison information from bmwusa.com.)
When the X5 first came out several of the car mags made the same comment - great driving ability FOR AN SUV, but the 540i Wagon is cheaper, has MORE SPACE (33 cu ft) and drives far better (but doesn't look as cool).
So, why do you really want the X5 if it's not for the space that most SUVs provide? Get a 330i / 540i sedan or an M3 and REALLY enjoy your drive. Or if you need the space and a very safe vehicle to boot then get an MDX like I did and live with the trade off. (Then put the $10k you saved towards a used Miata as a second car for real driving enjoyment...) |
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| wmquan |
quote:
Originally posted by VWDogma
My main criteria for making a final decision is: driveability (I want to have fun driving the vehicle!), performance, comfort, and styling.
If those are the correct priorities that you have in a vehicle, it appears that the X5 is the clear choice for you. The X5 exceeds the MDX in most of the above areas (though the MDX is no slouch in all of them). Where the MDX beats the X5 (cargo room, value, etc.) isn't listed in your priority list.
If you do get the Sport package, and decide to drive in snow (even relatively light snow), please strongly consider getting a second set of tires for such driving. |
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| buddyboy |
| My friend's brother bought a fully-loaded BMW X5 3.0 and has brought it back for defective items a minimum of 10 times in the first few months. We were discussing how painful it would be to take it back regularly when the warranty was over. Just my 2 cents... |
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| manus1980 |
| Are people that purchase X5s on crack? I'm sorry, had to vent. |
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| mdxxxx |
quote:
Originally posted by manus1980
Are people that purchase X5s on crack? I'm sorry, had to vent.
:19: |
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| vicpai |
quote:
Originally posted by manus1980
Are people that purchase X5s on crack? I'm sorry, had to vent.
........when they were little, and the resulting injury to the brain causes it to function improperly! :D ........Oh, and don't forget the dudes and dudettes who fork out thousands of their hard earned dollars on that Mercedes ML either. These "brain dead" humans simply don't seem to get it even after they've been told on numerous occasions that this vehicle is an UNRELIABLE POS that may leave them stranded on some desolate back road one day exposing their life to danger!!......."oh well, it's not that big of a deal to just have to take it in for repairs 3 or 4 times a month. After all they are just machines and machines do break down, those poor things........and besides, it's a 'MERCEDES' after all and so must have something great about it! Right?" :rolleyes: |
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| VWDogma |
Thanks to all for your replies and comments. After carefully weighing the pros and cons of these vehicles, I have decided to not go with the X5, mostly for the reasons mentioned above.
The ML has never been in my list for some of the reasons mentioned by vicpai. Plus, the looks of it does not appeal to me.
Even though I have eliminated the X5 from my list, there is a new contender: the Volvo XC90. This is a strong contender because we are planning on having a family soon and it seems the safest choice. If the test drive reassures this opinion, I will most definitely go for it.
Once again, thanks for all your comments. They really helped me in making a decision! |
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| laborlitigator |
Why would you by a Swedish POS like that. . . I had one and it was in the shop more than it was in my own garage.
If you are thinking about a family, you'd better consider the 3rd row. It works wonders when you've got two rugrats slugging away at eachother!
:21: |
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| mdxxxx |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
. . I had one and it was in the shop more than it was in my own garage. ...
:21:
Ditto.
I think my Volvo mechanic drove more miles in my 740 turbo than I did! :D Yeah, I can laugh about it now!:4: |
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| Maik |
quote:
Originally posted by mdxxxx
Ditto.
I think my Volvo mechanic drove more miles in my 740 turbo than I did! :D Yeah, I can laugh about it now!:4:
My 1992 740 must have been built on a Wednesday. I gave it to my daughter in March when I bought the MDX. It had 235,000 trouble free miles on it and continues to serve her quite well. |
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| nytflyt |
VWDogma,
I have been going through the same SUV selection process, as I have several grandchildren requiring car seats, and my wife wants more room than we have in our Lexus. I liked the specs on the new XC90 but I ordered an MDX because the XC90 similarly equipped would be $7000 more than the Acura. I just didn’t see anything that justified the higher cost. There are a few things I like better, HID headlights for one, but I think the NAV is far superior in the MDX. I plan on keeping the car for a long time and I also think the MDX engine will require less maintenance, long term, than the turbocharged engine in the XC90. Just my $.02 opinions.
Earl |
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| laborlitigator |
Now that's a smart guy! Plus it just looks better. . .
As for the 235K guy, god bless ya. . . :4: |
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| buddyboy |
| Isn't resale value significantly less for European cars as it it for Japanese? |
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| VWDogma |
| Although we're not really concerned about resale value, it is true that Volvos have been falling behind in that arena, together with Jaguar, Infinity, Saab, etc. But the statement above is not entirely correct: http://www.starbanner.com/articles/business/755.shtml . |
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| manus1980 |
| When I think of Volvo the Ford Chasis comes to mind. |
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| DRBOBVS |
i happen to be a member of a consumer research group that participated in a comparison, drive, and evaluation of midsize luxury SUV's just last week . The SUv's on hand were Mercedes ML320, BMW X5, Acura MDX, Lexus RX300 and Infiniti's new FX35.
All vehicles were exhaustedly opinionized, driven and evaluated for comfort , space quality of materials , engine performance and everyday livabilty. After 4 hours we had to rank them 1 to 5
I all came down to personal needs. If you need a third row seat, the Acura wins hands down. Not just because it was the only one with a third row seat mind you, but because it had the best balance of luxury, sport and utility. This, after all is what these vehicles are designed to do. Everyday livability, comfort and performance was equally represented in the MDX.
However, if you do not need a third row seat, the nod goes to the X5. It was the most fun to drive, handled the curves second only to the infiniti and its car like nature gives you a very short learning curve. Its status is also a plus. OUr only gripes were a slightly rough engine at idle, the dash pod was set too high that the top of the steering wheel blocked the instruments, and the ride was somewhat jittery for this class of vehicle.
So in the end, if you want a sports car with the utility of an SUV, go with the Bimmer. If you want an SUV with some sport go with the highly sought after MDX.
I hope this helps and GOOD LUCK!
Dr Bob |
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| twosomeca |
Interesting reading. Other than the mild flames sent towards VWdogma, or whatever his name was. ;)
I think there is some good info here, but a lot of it is fairly obvious, at least to me. You guys are dead on right about the value of the vehicle and its utility in everyday situations. I can't say I totally agree about the lack of handling asserted towards the X5, but you guys are right about it not truly being a drivers car. I'd like to think that I have that problem solved anyway. :cool: I think we are more interested in a vehicle that can be used for family trips, whether they be to our community pool, the beach, around town, or on major road trips. We have two sedans, and it' ain't cuttin' it. We need something larger. While I felt that the Xer (the true Xer is the X5, so why do you guys call the MDX the "X," I think I would call in the MDX...ok this is semantics, sorry), was roomy, I really felt like the MDX was just the right size all the way around. I don't want something too big b/c I generally don't like SUVs, but I want something to be comfortable in when we all have to get into the car together. Combine this with the cargo space, plus the interior appointments and I am thinking that you guys might have a winner here. As for the Volvo...forget it. I hate Volvos. Not even looking at them. Totally POS if you ask me and they look like socialist/commie cars. ;) Alright, just kidding. Other than being safe, they don't offer much, but they are trying to get better. Nope, for me it is BMW in the Euro division and probably Acura/Honda in the Pacific division. Thanks for all the notes. :) |
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