| MDXtrous |
Dell has a free CDRW upgrade and a $200 rebate on the following system.
Basically, $1169 with 2.4Ghz, 533MHZ bus, 512MB, 80 Gig, no monitor, nVidia GF4 64MB MX, DVD, CDRW before $200 rebate.
Good deal? Is the $60 for 2.53Ghz worth it? What is the difference between GF4 MX and Ti? Is the DVI out useful (80 extra for the Ti).
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellst...&view=1&cfgpg=1
I'm mainly going to use it for video (DV) editing... I'm not a real gamer...
Thanks in advance guys!!! |
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| ssMDX |
| Looks like a very good deal to me. You probably won't notice any different of those two CPU speeds - they are fast!!! |
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| jj_mdx |
Nvdia's GF4 MX chipset is basically an over-clocked GF2, it is NOT what you would imagine of a real GF4 card... it's not, in some testing setups, even close to GF2 Ti series... GF4 Ti series on the other hand, is much faster than GF2 Ti series, but not much better than the ATI Radeon 8500 cards, which is a LOT cheaper ($150 price difference)... check out the following link for detailed comparisons:
http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphi...0418/index.html
the DVI out is only useful if you are considering using a digital flat panel display, rather than the old-fashioned CRT monitor... but most of the new graphics cards come with it as standard... |
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| jj_mdx |
quote:
Originally posted by MDXtrous
Good deal? Is the $60 for 2.53Ghz worth it? What is the difference between GF4 MX and Ti? Is the DVI out useful (80 extra for the Ti).
the price sounds decent to me... though i would rather build my computer from ground up...:D
i agree with ssMDX, it's hard to tell the difference between 2.4 and 2.53 Ghz for us daily users, but you certainly can tell the difference between a GF4MX card and a real GF4Ti card... since it costs roughly the same to upgrade, i would spend the money on the Ti graphics card... |
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| voltes |
I wouldnt pay $60 extra for that measly 100 mhz. increase. The difference at that level is not that noticeable. I'd rather spend that $60 in a bigger memory, bigger hard drive, monitor or just plainly save it. :)
Btw, since you're going to do video editing, just save it and get a DVD burner. Much worth it.
The price looks right and you'll get good service.
Good luck! |
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| xcel |
Hi MDXtrous:
___Having been in on the < $400.00 1.6 and 1.8 GHz P4’s, 128 MB DDR, GeForce4 MX, 40 GB HD’s, 8X CD-RW’s … I can tell you the latest DELL’s are very slow. The HD Images on the first one I received was over 9 months old. The last two were over 3 months old. I had to strip one to the C:> prompt and rebuild to even come close to the performance I receive from a std. home built and even than, something is still not right. I OC everything I build so the DELL can’t compete in that regard. Irregardless, you will not feel the difference between a 2.2 and a 2.53 from the DT that is. Any bench will easily show the difference.
___This may help if you have any ability to build your own I would. If not, I would try to wait for the stackable 10% + 10% + $300.00 rebate + free shipping. Paying > $1000 for a DT in today’s environment is nuts IMO?
___Just to give you an idea of performance for a price … I use the Asus P4S533 w/ a 645DX based chipset but do recommend that many consider the Intel I845G in an Asus P4B533-V. Boards are a tad over $100 and $150.00 respectively. The latest P4S8X is a SiS648 chipset with Serial ATA onboard but are to new to say they are worth the $130.00 +? Some preview benches show mediocre performance and others show best in class. The current P4B533-V has an onboard 6-channel sound and an S/PDIF bracket included for Digital output. The analog outs are on the low end however. The Rambus based boards are extremely fast but with the price of Rambus still at a premium, I would forgo them although in a lot of benches, they are the fastest things available.
___For the CPU’s … Here is where the prices are simply stupid. I use the infamous 1.6A Northwood @ 2.4 GHz but they are fast becoming an unavailable commodity. Many 1.8’s can make it to 2.4 but if they don’t, the P4B533-V can lock the AGP/PCI multipliers to handle whatever freq. they are stable at. Usually 2.2 – 2.3 if they don’t quite make it to 2.4. The chips are only $130 +. For a true 2.53 GHz P4, you are speaking of ~ 240.00 +.
___For the vid cards, any “Powered By” Radeon 9000 Pro can be had for < 90.00. The noise floor of these “Powered By” ATI cards are higher than the “Built by” although that makes very little difference for most. Expect to pay another $50.00 for a “Made By” if that means anything to you. For outright performance, the cards lye something like this. 9000 ~ < = 8500 < Ti4200 < Ti4400 < Ti 4600 < 9700 and 9700 Pro depending on the benches viewed and the exact cards configurations. The Ti4200’s would be my pick for great performance at a great price. $125.00 or thereabouts and the drivers are the best in the business. The latest ATI Catalyst’s have helped ATI pull out of the driver mess they have always been hampered with but not completely. The Catalyst’s also break some HWMC functions of possibly the best Ravisent/Sonic DVD decoders if that means anything to anyone here … To add, the Radeon’s have a better overlay display w/ 10-bit processing and 10-bit DAC’s as well as Gamma adjustment to the overlay. The GeForce’s have good 8-bit DAC’s and 10-bit internal processing but are over filtered for the most part. Even when the filters are removed, they are not as sharp as a Radeon. This shows up in clarity of text in the 2D realm and especially in the overlay with a scope calibrated output by adjusting the B, C, H, S, and gamma control to 0 IRE. None of the GeForce’s have a Gamma control in the overlay if that helps. On A HiDef projector, nothing can compete with the Radeon’s for DVD or DScaler playback except for possible a MyHD HiDef card with a CSS key ripped DVD scaled to 1080i +.
___Quiet coolers for the P4 … The Alpha PAL8945 w/ a Panasonic Panaflow L1 run off the Q-Fan adapter is the quietest and best performing quiet solution available. Problem … ~ $35.00 + shipped :(
___For the DDR, I really like Crucial (memory arm of Micron). 256 MB of PC2700 can be purchased direct for ~ $74.00. It will run CAS2 all the way into the 165 - 175 MHz range in my experience with it. I also like Samsung PC2700 on Samsung PCB’s but if you just get the chips, make sure you get the PCB’s or you have poor performing memory.
___Sound card’s: Since both of the above boards have an onboard sound solution, you can get away with it. In the Home Theater PC Realm, most use the M-Audio AP2496’s w/ ASIO plugins under XP Home or Pro.
___CD-RW’s: I have seen faster Lite-On’s for the cheapest price but the Plextor’s are the best in the business IMHO even still. 24x10x40’s are less than $90.00. Lite-On’s have been known to perform even better than some Plextor’s but Plextor’s are the most reliable in my experience. I love Nero Burning Rom but Adpatec’s/Roxio’s EZ-CD Creator is used by many. Nero is hands down the best if you are into burning …
___HD’s: I use the 80 GB SeaGate Barracuda ATA IV’s exclusively since they are the quietest 7200 RPM drives made. Dell’s usually use the same (sometimes Maxtor 7200’s …) in the 20, 40, and 80 GB sizes. < $90.00 direct form Dell w/ a 10% coupon although the warranty is limited from them. Buy from any Internet reseller for ~ the same price and get a warranty with it. For all out performance, I like the WD 120’s w/ the 8 MB cache but are usually cost prohibitive. I just picked up (2) 120 GB – 2 MB Cache 7200’s for $30.00 each after $100.00 rebates and a price match at Office Max. They are faster but not nearly as quiet as the Barracuda’s I build for the HT crowd.
___Case: The Antec 1030(B) clones are about the best in the business. With a 330 W Antec True Power, you have an extremely quiet PSU w/ voltage feedback and the case can be upgraded to hold just about anything. I have installed PC Power&Cooling Silencers, Panaflows, and Sunon TB-4’s as well as modding them all including the Antec included (they look like Sunon TS-3’s to me) for 7 Volt operation. You won’t hear them unless you are within a foot or two of the case.
___As far as the OS is concerned, Windows XP Pro can be had for < $50.00 direct from MS. If you have a child in school, you can find it even cheaper in some cases. If you don’t need all the advanced NW support, Home is more than sufficient and can be had for $60.00 straight up.
___I should explain why I did not make mention of an AMD solution … I own two of them in my own household but the chipsets for them are not ready for prime time when you do anything w/ DD/DTS decoding using high end 24/96 based sound cards. The best cards simply fall apart on all of the VIA based chipsets. The Nvidia nForce 415’s are a great choice but not as long term reliable as the Intel chipset based boards. I have an I420 in for repair after HD corruption right now :( Hopefully the nForce2’s will be even faster. The SiS based AMD chipsets are usually of lower quality but ohhhh what a bargain. Darn ECS K7S5A w/ onboard LAN and a totally junk onboard sound solution can be found for < $50.00! I believe Fry’s has them for $44.00 right now. I don’t recommend them as I have had 3 w/ 1 RMA in the process. The AMD CPU’s put out quite a bit of heat w/out a Heat spreader and cooling them properly is tough. When they burn up, they just don’t boot anymore. This happens with the enthusiast crowd more than anyone cares to believe. Intel chips just don’t burn up in my experience. They simply crash or in the case of the P4’s, throttle themselves down until the cooling problem is fixed or restored. I will say that for photo editing, the fastest XP +’s will tear up a P4 at any GHz rating. There is also a faster snap to the DT as well but no one has ever come up with an explanation for that given the cache latencies of the XP +’s are much higher than the PIII’s/P4’s? Pipeline efficiency of the P4’s are for another thread/forum but for your uses, the fastest P4’s should suffice.
___Given Dell’s poor build images, a simple XP install at defaults (no OS optimization) with the latest drivers (no driver optimizations) using any of the above HW will walk all over anything the Dell box could do and at will be a lot cheaper prices … If you have an 8 – 20 yr. old in the house, the build experience will be worth it …
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net |
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| ghost |
quote:
Originally posted by MDXtrous
Dell has a free CDRW upgrade and a $200 rebate on the following system.
Basically, $1169 with 2.4Ghz, 533MHZ bus, 512MB, 80 Gig, no monitor, nVidia GF4 64MB MX, DVD, CDRW before $200 rebate.
Good deal? Is the $60 for 2.53Ghz worth it? What is the difference between GF4 MX and Ti? Is the DVI out useful (80 extra for the Ti).
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellst...&view=1&cfgpg=1
I'm mainly going to use it for video (DV) editing... I'm not a real gamer...
Thanks in advance guys!!!
Wow, MDXtrous - without seeing this post, I ordered almost this exact model this morning! Same CPU, memory specs, no monitor. I did get the upgraded NVIDIA card (Ti) and picked up the new DVD+RW/+R, just to see how those things work. I'm hoping the DVD writer will save me the $1000 it would take to get the Philips stand-alone unit.
The $200 rebate was a pretty good draw, whole thing priced out a bit over $1700. I'll let you know how it works out, should arrive around Oct 1.
(Bought this in spite of the annoying Dell guy...) :) |
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| MDXtrous |
Thanks guys for all the feedback. It does seem like a good deal unless your as good as xcel in putting things together. I'm not the type to try to build a computer on my own. I also like the idea of a Dell warranty and just sending it back if something goes wrong. I do agree that a better system could be built for less. But there is just something about having it ready-made, with high quality stuff, and performing well on PC World's best home PCs, and shipped to your house.
But I'm convinced to upgrade to the Ti instad of the MX, and am reconsidering upgrading the CPU since most of you don't think it's worth it.
ghost, I've been following the site for a while and the $200 today seemed like one of the better deals. I'm sticking with the CDRW and DVD for now, until they come out with a more standardized format, or when the dual format + and - drives that Sony's coming out with drops in price. Maybe a few more months to a year. Meanwhile, everything will just have to be VCDs. |
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| xcel |
Hi MDXtrous:
___I did go a bit overboard, didn’t I ;)
___If you don’t build your own (1 to 3 yr. warranty on most HW in case you didn’t know …), you may as well upgrade for a great price. Check your local Best Buy for a PNY 64 MB Nvidia based Ti4200. After $30.00 rebate, they are only $99.00 and they are extremely fast in comparison to the lowly 4 MX series cards. I am almost positive that this is cheaper than what DELL offers as an upgrade + you will receive the 4 MX for another machine. Given your X mods, swapping out a video card in a PC is child’s play in comparison.
___And finally, don’t let DELL rip you off. There are any number of Dell purchasers stacking coupons and receiving rebates and free shipping. Just make sure you are one of them because as I mentioned before, even with the fastest processors, they are nothing compared to an optimized home built system as anyone that has had their hands on them and knows what an optimized system consists of can attest …
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net |
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| gordonweb |
I recently bought my P4 2Ghz Dell Dimension 8200 from the Dell Small Business site a few months ago for a bottom line price about $759.
The deal was $886 for the system + free Palm M105 ($100 value) + $73 tax - $100 rebate. I'm still waiting for the $100 rebate but I think this was a great deal with a Palm Pilot.
I'm using the system for DV and Digital Picture editing and general home office. I'm not into heavy duty PC gaming. I have a PS and XBOX for that. But that's another topic.
The Dell is great compared to my older P3 550Mhz generic built system. It's got a great case that's easy to open and service for upgrades. The CPU and case fans are very quiet and I hardly know it's on because I hardly hear it. It's got some USB ports and a headphone jack hidden in the front of the case for convienent access for digital cameras and headphones. There are more USB ports in the back for more permanent connections.
The bundled system details are:
P4 2.0 Ghz
256 PC800 RDRAM (fastest memory but I plan to upgrade to 512)
Keyboard/Intellimouse
64Mb GeForce4 MX w/ TV out (good for S-Video output to TV)
40Gb 7200 RPM HD
Windows XP Home + Office Small Business
10/100 Ethernet
16x DVD
Dell Picture Studio Image Expert ($30 upgrade)
I added in my existing Seagate Barrcuda 80Gb 7200 RPM HD that I had for DV editing.
I added in my existing TDK VeloCD 40/12/48x for buring VCD and SVCD.
I added my existing Pinnacle DV Firewire card.
If you shop around, these upgrades bring the total system price back up to about $1000. But still not bad for a screaming DV editing system that also runs the most demanding games.
So depending on what optional parts you upgrade, the bottom line price of the base system is great for the quality and performance you get. |
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| ghost |
I'll say one thing for Dell, they're fast! I placed the order Monday and they gave me a tentative ship date of Oct 2.
I got a second email today that said it just shipped!
I'm jazzed, can't wait to get off this weenie 800 MHz HP and onto something with some horsepower! :D |
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| MDXtrous |
quote:
Originally posted by ghost
I'm jazzed, can't wait to get off this weenie 800 MHz HP and onto something with some horsepower! :D
Try a Pentium I 266 MHZ MMX!! That's what I've got:) |
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| gordonweb |
| I just upgraded my old P1 166Mhz to WindowsXP to see what happens. It runs but ... chug chug chug. I may have to downgrade back to 98se. |
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| ghost |
quote:
Originally posted by gordonweb
I just upgraded my old P1 166Mhz to WindowsXP to see what happens. It runs but ... chug chug chug. I may have to downgrade back to 98se.
It runs?!?!?! Kind of like towing a semi with a Geo Metro... |
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| voltes |
I'm surprised it can even run Windows XP!! :eek:
At least I'm not bottom of the barrel. We still have a 233 running on windows 2000. :29: |
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| MDXtrous |
XP is running fine on my MMX 266MHZ with 256MB RAM. I also have Cable Modem, so no problems surfing.
By the way, I plopped down the credit card today and got the Dell P4 2.53 GHZ, 512MB, 80GB, 64MB GE4 Ti 4200, for $1400 including shipping of $99 - $200 rebate which I'll get in another 3 months...
Wow, I hope it's a little better than what I've got :) Thanks everyone!! |
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| ghost |
Congrats, MDXtrous! A 10-fold speed increase - yeah, you should notice a difference...
I just checked Dell's tracking system - my CPU made it into Duluth at 5:15 this morning! Hope it finds its way here today.
Order on Monday - receive on Thursday - I'm impressed! :D |
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| MDXtrous |
quote:
Originally posted by ghost
Congrats, MDXtrous! A 10-fold speed increase - yeah, you should notice a difference...
That's just the CPU, not to mention the 533MHZ bus, the PC800 512MB RAM (3GB/s instead of 1GB/s), the 64MB video mem. I'm pretty excited. If I could only find the right video editing software and firewire/USB 2.0 card.
I've heard some good things about Video Explosion Deluxe and Video Studio 6.0.
Any suggestions on the software and firewire/USB 2.0 combo cards people?
Thanks... |
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| voltes |
How serious are you on your video editing plans?
I may offer a few suggestions. I started using Studio DV by pinnacle but easily outgrown it after a couple of uses. I'm now using a Matrox RT2000 (old by today's standard).
You may want to look at www.videoguys.com and look for something that fits your budget. |
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| MDXtrous |
quote:
Originally posted by voltes
How serious are you on your video editing plans?
I've never done it before so don't really know. My brother is getting me copies of Video Explosion Deluxe and Video Studio 6.0 since he's a software buyer. I'll start out with that and see where it goes.
I'm also pretty excited about Sony's new DVD+RW/+R and DVD-RW/-R combined format burner coming out in October for $350. We'll see how quickly prices drop... |
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| gordonweb |
| I'm looking for hobby home video editing software so not much more budget for video editing. I bought Studio DV and upgraded to Studio 8. The firewire card seems to work fine in this new system. But Studio 8 is running like a snail and crashes. Maybe I can find some answers on that videoguys web site. Thanks. |
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| voltes |
Here's where you start looking...
http://www.videoguys.com/started.html
I'm also psyched about that new Sony product but can't wait that long. I already bought the Pioneer A04 for $300 since it 's already tested and already used by a lot of people already and I'm fed up burning VCDs that can only handle 30 mins of video in one disc.
gordonweb
If you can stretch your budget a little bit more $200-$300 you'll be able to find a much decent and better software package out there. Check products by Canopus, Pinnacle and Matrox. These are the companies that make their living by making these products and they're good at it. Even the service.
Enjoy! |
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