| tommyleon |
Hi MDXLUVR:Welcome to the friendly fray!Actually I honestly don't think I'm biased.I'm just reporting what I see and hear with nformation coming from some 450 dealers and garages.I guess what would gall me is paying the exorbitant price for a German or European vehicle(I'm sure the pricing is reflective of an overtaxed environment) and see it develop problemswithin a relatively short period of time(within 5to7 years).If you read my earlier post,I'm in dealer ships most every day and see first hand whats breaking.This is only one example but I was in the local BMW dealership the other day and a new 528 was in for a thermostat housing that had cracked(plastic part)I see these kinds of things on a daily basis and call on ALL makes of cars.I guess you could call my perspective somewhat limited in that I only work the Tennessee and North Ala. markets!!
Tom:4: |
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| tigmd99 |
Rlm,
Well, Acura is not handling the transmission failure issue very well. Extending the warranty does nothing for safety and prevention. The warranty only covers IF your transmission crashes...ok, by that time, the driver may have died already.
Honda is not recalling any of it's vehicles. I know of a few Acura TL/CL people that are pissed at Honda for doing nothing more than extending the warranty.
Same can be said about Toyota's sludge problem affecting their old 4-cylinder engine and 3.0L V6. But, i think at least, Toyota did act on it...a bit late...but this was not a major safety issue. |
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| MDXLuvr |
| Tommy: I was mainly referring to Desant and rlm32. u have the advantage of being able to sample many dealerships. This gives u good persceptive on what makes are reliable. However, remember, personal bias can develop with time. For eg: u see new bimmers in the shop at a few dealerships, next u start asking how many new bimmers are in your service bay for repairs, and finally u believe that bmw's reliability/quality is poor. Granted this may take some time, but it is inevitable. Therefore, i always try to go back to CR or JD 5yr data for long term reliability data. |
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| MDXLuvr |
quote:
Originally posted by tigmd99
The warranty only covers IF your transmission crashes...ok, by that time, the driver may have died already.
Honda is not recalling any of it's vehicles. I know of a few Acura TL/CL people that are pissed at Honda for doing nothing more than extending the warranty.
1. when was the last time a tranny failure killed somebody. oh, and retarded people suing AUDI in the '80's dosen't count.
2. What do u expect from Honda. Do u really expect Honda to replace a transmission that is running perfect. They gave an extended warranty if it fails. I don't see what else they need to do. Do you think that BMW should replace all e46M3 engines b/c they had a few failures in the first few months.
Thai, come on, pleeze, i beg u, pleez STOP MAKING DUMB POINTS! |
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| tigmd99 |
MDXLuvr,
Hmm, someone needs a stool softener! Man, why the hostility?? Geez...:rolleyes:
MDXLuvr, if you're going about 70 mph, and then your transmission fails...your car all of a sudden redlines...your speed SUDDENLY drops to 10 mph...REMEMBER, your brake lights does NOT come on because you're not braking the car...you think the car behind you will brake in time????????????? I BEG YOU TO THINK NEXT TIME BEFORE RESPONDING.
The situation above is equivalent to slamming on the brakes on the highway while driving at 70 mph...withOUT having the brake lights on! That is a disaster waiting to happen! It is called a highway pile-up! It is a REAL danger.
Enlighten me, did BMW fix the engine on it's later model?? Did BMW extend the powertrain warranty (like Acura) or did they fix the problem??
Dumb points?? I have never been anything other than respectful of you, MDXLuvr. You are a colleague...i treat you as such. Now, if you want to be an A-hole, i can easily respond to you in kind.
Thanks. |
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| tommyleon |
Mornin MDXluvr:Your points about biased are well taken.
I do find it interesting that the MDX is STILL so popular.I've checked the want ads every Sunday for the last 6-10 weeks here in Nashville, and not ONE used Xer for sale!Everything else is in there.
I've bought a lot of vehicles over the years and this was the toughest to buy!
I don't know about all the tranny stuff as I only have 500 miles on the X.
Tom:4: |
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| rlm32 |
| Its not the problem, its how VW is dealing with it that people are pissed about. |
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| rlm32 |
Great news for us VW owners! VW is recalling the coilpacks. I retract my previous statement. They are finally doing the right thing.
04 FEB 2003
VOLKSWAGEN AND AUDI TO REPLACE ALL IGNITION COIL PARTS ON 2001, 2002 AND SOME 2003 MODELS
AUBURN HILLS, Mich. – Volkswagen of America, Inc. and Audi of America, Inc. today announced a customer service action in which the companies will ultimately replace the ignition coils in all 2001 and 2002 model year cars equipped with certain engines that have been experiencing a higher-than-normal failure rate. Also affected are very early production 2003 models.
The companies are currently notifying all customers potentially affected and are initially replacing those ignition coils that fail at no cost. The updated customer service action, replacing all ignition coils whether they fail or not, will be implemented in the coming months.
“We know that some ignition coils installed in our cars are not up to our high quality standards, and we are determined to do the right thing for our customers. The right thing to do is to fix every single car with these coils by replacing them whether they are broken yet or not. That is exactly what we will do as soon as we have the parts,” said Gerd Klauss, president and CEO, Volkswagen of America, Inc.
The vehicles affected in this action include cars equipped with 1.8 liter engines, which includes the Audi TT and A4; and the VW Golf/GTI, Jetta, New Beetle and Passat. The companies also included the Passat W8 engine, all VW’s equipped with the 2.8 liter VR6; as well as the Audi 3.0 liter V6 engine. In total, approximately 530,000 cars are affected by this action.
The ignition coils provide electricity to the engine’s spark plugs during operation. Volkswagen and Audi have recognized through service reports that the ignition coils used in the products listed above have a higher-than-normal failure rate. If an ignition coil fails, the check engine light/malfunction indicator lamp will blink. The car’s performance may, in some cases, become rough and/or the engine will lose some power and the car should be taken to an authorized dealer for repair. The engine and its electronic controls are designed to keep the vehicle running. Some deterioration in performance, however, can be expected.
Volkswagen and Audi are announcing the following customer service action:
The supplier is working triple shifts and seven days a week to make as many new parts as possible. Additionally, a second supplier has been activated.
Soon customers will be notified by mail that Volkswagen and Audi will proactively begin replacing all ignition coils in cars potentially affected, whether a failure has occurred or not. This action will begin in the coming months as soon as replacement ignition coil supply volumes will allow.
In order to minimize inconvenience to customers during repair, Volkswagen and Audi dealers will offer alternative transportation at no cost.
Customers with questions should call VW Customer Relations toll-free at (800) 822-8987 or Audi Customer Relations toll-free at (800) 822-2834. |
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| MDXLuvr |
quote:
Originally posted by tigmd99
MDXLuvr,
Hmm, someone needs a stool softener! Man, why the hostility?? Geez...:rolleyes:
MDXLuvr, if you're going about 70 mph, and then your transmission fails...your car all of a sudden redlines...your speed SUDDENLY drops to 10 mph...REMEMBER, your brake lights does NOT come on because you're not braking the car...you think the car behind you will brake in time????????????? I BEG YOU TO THINK NEXT TIME BEFORE RESPONDING.
Enlighten me, did BMW fix the engine on it's later model?? Did BMW extend the powertrain warranty (like Acura) or did they fix the problem??
Dumb points?? I have never been anything other than respectful of you, MDXLuvr. You are a colleague...i treat you as such. Now, if you want to be an A-hole, i can easily respond to you in kind.
Thanks.
Hey Thai, I apologize for my comments. I read it again and i really cannot defend my last statement.
However, let me try to explain what i was trying to say. Quite often, You respond just to be a pseudo-troll. Some of your points are well thought out(regarding off-roading), but sometimes it seems you are disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing. granted, you have every right to say what you want. Its just that as a colleague, i expect more from u. It obvious i should have just PM'd you regarding this point, but i was stupid enough to put it in the thread. For that I am truely sorry.
Now back to the thread.
1. I would like to see an example of a tranny failure that caused a shift to 1st gear, with subsequent MVA. You are right, it could happen, but i just ask for proof.
2. regarding m3 engine failures, bmw told all 2002 m3 owners that if the engine fails, they will replace it, but no true recall(similar to honda). again, it is illogical to replace engines/trannys that are running perfectly fine. 1.6% tranny failure means 98.4% of trannies are ok. it would be nice to know your tranny is not going to fail, but no business is going to offer a recall just to make you feel better. Its just bad PR.
Finally, you are right, i am a little constipated, could you right me a Rx for Colace, and Enema, along with a Rx for say VICODIN for pain.:2:
peace. |
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| MDXLuvr |
quote:
Originally posted by tommyleon
I only have 500 miles on the X.
Tom:4:
I think you need an excuse for a road trip. how about Mardi gras in Naw'lins. It will get you and your X to warmer weather. |
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| tigmd99 |
MDXLuvr,
Actually, if you read back at the initial complaint on the Honda tranny issue, you will see that one of the "victims" had a very SIMILAR scare while driving on the highway...he/she was lucky that no car was around at the time.
Please see the article below:
From The Los Angeles Times:
Honda's Unexpected Gear Shift
Some customers believe a recall should be issued for the slipping transmissions
By JOHN O'DELL
Matthew Veno spotted an opening in the early-morning rush-hour traffic and stabbed the accelerator. His year-old Acura TL Type-S surged forward, hitting close to 80 mph on Boston's Route 3. Then, with no warning, the five-speed automatic transmission slipped from fifth to second, pulling the car up as sharply as if he had slammed on the brakes.
"Fortunately, the people behind me were able to swerve, so there wasn't an accident," the 23-year-old computer engineer recalled. "But it could have been pretty bad."
When Veno's $34,000 Acura spontaneously downshifted, the engine kept racing and the crankshaft revolutions, or RPMs, went through the roof, kicking in a limiter that cuts off the engine to avoid damage.
"That caused even more jerkiness, and at 80 it started the car swerving from side to side on a two-lane highway. I almost slammed into a construction barrier," Veno said. "It was the scariest time I've ever had in a car. If the traction control hadn't been on, I would have lost it." |
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| tigmd99 |
Quote: "However, let me try to explain what i was trying to say. Quite often, You respond just to be a pseudo-troll. Some of your points are well thought out(regarding off-roading), but sometimes it seems you are disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing. granted, you have every right to say what you want. Its just that as a colleague, i expect more from u..."
MDXLuvr, uhh, what does this have to do with being a "colleague"?? It is easily a "friendly" argument/debate...i see it no more than that. What do you expect more of?? My medical knowledge has nothing to do with what i say on this forum or any other forum. They are two different thing. I ASSUMED you knew that...sadly, i am wrong. However, being respectful of each other IS important as being a colleague. Hopefully, you will realize the difference.
BTW, as you can read my post above, you need to re-think your response. Yes, no MVA (motor vehicle accident) has occurred YET due to tranny failure...but do you need to wait for one before believing in it???? How many Acuras/Hondas out there...how many Americans are on the highway everyday?? It is just a matter of time....
Ok, so, a person comes to the ER complaining of crushing chest pain (like an elephant sitting on chest) with SOB (shortness of breath), Nausea/Vomiting, diaphoresis, and radiation to left arm. Options:
1. Do you jump in and give them heart medications or thrombolytics?? OR
2. Do you just sit back and wait till the patient dies to believe that the patient was having a heart attack??
I guess i know what option YOU would pick....
BTW, i know the difference between automotive issue and medical issue...the above situation is a parody of your argument. :D |
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| MDXLuvr |
quote:
Originally posted by tigmd99
Ok, so, a person comes to the ER complaining of crushing chest pain (like an elephant sitting on chest) with SOB, N/V, diaphoresis, and radiation to left arm. Options:
1. Do you jump in and give them medications or thrombolytics?? OR
2. Do you just sit back and wait till the patient dies to believe that the patient was having a heart attack??
I guess i know what option YOU would pick....
i would call my hospitalist buddies,;) since i haven't seen a pt. with chest pain in 9 years.
btw, thanks for the article. |
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| tigmd99 |
| Yup, i could have been one of those hospitalist....:D Well, you're welcome to set up shop in my town anyday.:7: |
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| drader |
Eight pages and nobody has done a comparison... let's try the $35k VW vs. the $36k MDX:
The MDX is 500 lbs lighter.
The MDX has 40 more horses.
The MDX gets 4 more mpg.
The MDX has more interior space.
The MDX has a limited slip diff.
The MDX has shorter gears.
The VW will be rattley, like every VW ever made (including mine, I'm on my 3rd). The VR6 is nowhere near as evolved as the Acura/Honda V6 (I've taken both apart!) The VW will have a beautiful interior, lot's of gizmos, but the shocks will be too soft. It will perform well for the first year, and then little problems will make you want a new car. Lots of character, but not a brand I want my wife to drive. |
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| rlm32 |
First of all, lets get the facts straight. The Touareg will have a V6 , not a VR6. This V6 was specifically designed for offroading capabilities.
Second, 20 hp difference is really no significant difference, and anyways what matters is the torque of the vehicle. Japanese cars are known to deliver high hp but the torque comes at high rpms, so the tend to be slow off the line. In any case, nobody is gonna be racing the damn things.
Towing capacity: VW 7700, Acura 3500(and no, you don't have to buy a transmission cooler)
Offroading capacity: VW = true offroader, MDX=limited
Approach and departure angles: advantage VW
Suspension: double wishbone front and back(VW), Acura (limited strut front, multilink back)===Advantage VW, better ride
Space: off course MDX is bigger, they are different vehicles (5 seater vs 7 seater). YMMV
Interior: much nicer interior VW, hands down
Climate control : dual zone for VW, MDX not available
Options: bixenons, air suspension, off road package,V8 and V10 engines
Quality control: Anybody's guess at this point. VW still carries the bad rep from prior generation automobiles. They have improved significantly to near luxury brand levels. Do you own a late model VW? |
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| drader |
| Yes, I own a late model VW, and love VWs in general. I also have the great fortune of seeing the Touareg in person, about a month ago. A very good friend works at a big VW dealership in LA, and they just happened to be touring one when I was visiting. Very very nice in person. You are right on all your points, except the motor. The motor is indeed a VR6; it is bigger (3.2, I think), 24v head, infinately variable valve timing, and variable intake runners. It is the nicest VR6 VW has designed, but sadly doesn't hold a candle to Honda's similar plant. I will also concede the more expensive Touareg will crush the more expensive MDX, but at the base level - seeing as I don't care about offroad abilities or towing - the MDX is unbeatable. It's also about 2 seconds faster 0-60, which matters to me. |
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| navybean |
quote:
Originally posted by drader
Yes, I own a late model VW, and love VWs in general. I also have the great fortune of seeing the Touareg in person, about a month ago. A very good friend works at a big VW dealership in LA, and they just happened to be touring one when I was visiting. Very very nice in person. You are right on all your points, except the motor. The motor is indeed a VR6; it is bigger (3.2, I think), 24v head, infinately variable valve timing, and variable intake runners. It is the nicest VR6 VW has designed, but sadly doesn't hold a candle to Honda's similar plant. I will also concede the more expensive Touareg will crush the more expensive MDX, but at the base level - seeing as I don't care about offroad abilities or towing - the MDX is unbeatable. It's also about 2 seconds faster 0-60, which matters to me.
That's the way I kinda look at it. I love our MDX, but if we were to go off road there is no way I would even try. Light off road is no prob for the MDX but if it were to get serious ( one wheel in the air ) I would eject from my driver's seat!!!:1: |
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| rlm32 |
| I stand corrected. Its a VR6. |
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| drader |
| I know because I already have my "Canadian junkyard friends" on the lookout for the first wrecked Touareg. I want that sucker (motor) in my Golf! |
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| Blessed |
| I like the MDX, but the VW might be worth the wait. If what I read about this car is true then it will kick a$$ |
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| ndahbar |
| Yeah yeah yeah. Let's just see what the price is of a V8 Touareg with navigation. Then we'll know if this is pointless to compare or not (to me, even an X5 3.0 isn't a comparison given that this vehicle with comparitive options as an 03 Tour+Nav = 11K more). |
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| jswift2000 |
| Before we picked up the mdx my wife called the vw dealer and we were told june for availability bumped up from August. We didnt want to wait... no for a vw. |
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| jswift2000 |
| Just not worth it for a vw... I would rather wait for the new lexus rx330. Adaptive headlighting will rock. I still love my x and i count the hours until I get home so I can drive it. I'm such a loser. |
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| tigmd99 |
| Nah, to really get a unique Touareg, you need to wait for the V10 diesel to come out!! That thing has over 500 lbs of Torque! Now, IF i were to buy a Touareg, that would be it. V8 is a car engine...same for the 6-cylinder. Diesel makes the Touareg very unique (and expensive!). |
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| MDXtrous |
quote:
Originally posted by jswift2000
Just not worth it for a vw... I would rather wait for the new lexus rx330. Adaptive headlighting will rock. I still love my x and i count the hours until I get home so I can drive it. I'm such a loser.
I'd take the VW in a heartbeat if it had 3rd row seats. The fit and finish on the VWs are amazing!! |
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| neide |
quote:
Originally posted by tigmd99
Nah, to really get a unique Touareg, you need to wait for the V10 diesel to come out!! That thing has over 500 lbs of Torque! Now, IF i were to buy a Touareg, that would be it. V8 is a car engine...same for the 6-cylinder. Diesel makes the Touareg very unique (and expensive!).
I'm actually much more interested in the W12 6 liter engine that is supposed to be in the second model year. |
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| navybean |
quote:
Originally posted by jswift2000
Before we picked up the mdx my wife called the vw dealer and we were told june for availability bumped up from August. We didnt want to wait... no for a vw.
that's because of all of the waiting lists which are being generated by all of the dealers. |
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| ndahbar |
| Man, it sure looks awesome on paper. WOW. So many features. I just can't imagine it being at LEAST 5K more than the MDX, even if it is a VW. www.vw.com/touareg |
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| navybean |
quote:
Originally posted by ndahbar
Man, it sure looks awesome on paper. WOW. So many features. I just can't imagine it being at LEAST 5K more than the MDX, even if it is a VW. www.vw.com/touareg
It just has so much more than the MDX. Granted it will take some more fuel but for serious adventureres, it is a better choice than the MDX.
:4: |
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| ndahbar |
Navybean,
Give me enough money, I'll make you an SUV that can fly to the freakin moon. My point is...compare vehicles that cost 35-40K fully loaded (or close to fully loaded) to the MDX. Stuff that's 5-8K or more doesn't count. It's like comparing an $8.99 steak dinner to a $40 one. No contest, but not a fair comparo either! |
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| OP MDX |
quote:
Originally posted by navybean
It just has so much more than the MDX. Granted it will take some more fuel but for serious adventureres, it is a better choice than the MDX.
:4:
Sincerely looked into the VW, but the CD based Navigation system was a deal killer. Although in the back of my head the common quality control problem VW has and that they appear to me the "Ford of Europe". |
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| navybean |
quote:
Originally posted by OP MDX
Sincerely looked into the VW, but the CD based Navigation system was a deal killer. Although in the back of my head the common quality control problem VW has and that they appear to me the "Ford of Europe".
Let the first year of the model roll out and the bugs will disappear. (past experience) Also, I do not think the CD anvi will last too long, everyone is mostly switching to DVD now.
:4: |
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| tigmd99 |
| Well, BMW 745 is still CD-based navigation! :mad: :rolleyes: And this is supposed to be the technological car of the future! |
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| Blessed |
| They have switched to DVD based Navi's plus BMW's Navi sucks. |
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| OP MDX |
quote:
Originally posted by Blessed
They have switched to DVD based Navi's plus BMW's Navi sucks.
Do you mean BMW or VW has switched to DVD? |
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| Blessed |
| I went and looked at an BMW 745 and the sales lady told me that the 745's were coming out with a DVD based Navi this was several month's ago. |
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| jswift2000 |
| BMW Navi sucks - I just read a report that the Lexus (Denso) and Acura (Alpine) were the best navs on the market... but then again i'm preaching to the choir. |
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| wmquan |
Ugh ... some VW dealers are trying to gouge on this vehicle (sound familiar?).
A fairly nicely equipped V6 has an MSRP of $38,465 according to vw.com. That includes 12-way power front seats, driver's seat memory, heated power folding mirrors with memory, leather, bi-xenons. But it doesn't include a CD changer and some of the other nice options.
While very nicely appointed, early feedback on the V6 doesn't sound too positive. 0-60 is probably in the mid-9 second range, a bit slow by today's standards (MDX, X5, RX, ML350). There are complaints about rear seat room, on a vehicle without a third row seat and less cargo room behind the second row than a Subaru Forester, let alone a Passat Wagon.
A V8 with the Premium Plus package lists for $48,315. 0-60 is claimed at 7.6 seconds.
I like VW's, but with inevitable first year bugs (and possibly beyond), and other shortcomings, it's hard to see the value. The V8 is priced into GX470 territory |
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| jswift2000 |
| The Toureg is now on www.vw.com and its a really nice looking truck. |
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| Blackura |
quote:
Originally posted by wmquan
0-60 is probably in the mid-9 second range, a bit slow by today's standards (MDX, X5, RX, ML350). There are complaints about rear seat room, on a vehicle without a third row seat and less cargo room behind the second row than a Subaru Forester, let alone a Passat Wagon.
I like VW's, but with inevitable first year bugs (and possibly beyond), and other shortcomings, it's hard to see the value. The V8 is priced into GX470 territory
First year VW *BUGS*? Good wordplay. :)
And yes, there will be bugs long after the first year. VW makes some very nice vehicles, but VW corporate culture seem to systematically deny problems no matter how many complaints they get or how many people they tick off. I'd never buy one again having been burned by the arrogant VW corporate attitude.
See also the recent posts on the Subaru Forester XT on this forum. For many, many thousands less, you can get a trouble free car that will totally smoke the Touareg. No, it's not as luxurious or refined of course, but it's a great vehicle. Still, I doubt prospective Touareg customers will cross shop Subaru.
Or, you could get an MDX. :) |
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| neide |
It does look nice, and it may be in my garage some day. But I was a little surprised at how expensive it gets quite quickly (even if it was not just a VW). Makes the MDX seem like an even bigger bargain.
And, I read on edmunds.com that the NAV system bites the big one. :( |
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| eclou |
| Drove a V6 today. Handled well (drove std suspension). Very nice interior finish. Somewhat cramped compared to the MDX. The console is enormous, like H1 sized. V6 has NO power. Very anemic compared to the MDX (mine is the 01). Rear seats are cramped, and the fold-down process is ridiculous - three step process 1)pull up bottom cushion 2) pull lever to fold seatback 3) magically stabilize the seatback with your 3rd hand while removed the headrests to clear the seat bottom. The fold-down hassle alone has nixed this car as a replacement for my 01 MDX. Plus the 5500lb curb weight is just stupid. |
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| jswift2000 |
| Oh yeah... you get bi-xenon projectors in the vw... in fact, I think the mdx is the only car in the class that doesnt offer hids as an option on their suv. |
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| ImOnlyTen |
VW's and Audi's dont have bad reliability!!! We have a Passat, and now an Allroad. No problems. I'm also a memeber of VWVORTEX and there are not many problems with the owners. The ignition coil thing- we got a letter saying that our PWGN might be affected, but we never had any problems. I mean Acura has recalls about downshifting transmissions, etc.
Our first CRV broke down right on EDSA. Right in the middle of it. Built in Japan, too.
I'm just saying, anything with a VW/Audi (or any other german automaker) badge has bad reliability. Thats like saying every Honda/Acura has bad reliability... |
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| ImOnlyTen |
| They also have better build quality than any Honda/Acura! |
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| perk |
I own a 2003 X with about 14,000 miles. Yesterday, I drove the Touareg V8 and here are some of my observations and comparisons.
1) The VW is a very nice looking car. It looks and feels solid. No flimsy plastic here or there, just simple metal that gives it the appearance and feel of being substantial and solid. Also, it shares some parts and pieces with the new Porsche Cayenne and the body styles are unmistakably similar.
2) The exhaust is tuned well. It sounds very much like a Porsche V8 exhaust, most like the old 928, in particular.
3) It feels slightly faster than the X. Ignoring the exhaust note is difficult, but when you do, you notice a more torquey feel to the car and slightly (maybe 1/2 second in 0-60) greater acceleration.
4) The interior is very handsome and gives you the feeling of well thought out luxury. All the pieces are made of high quality materials, apparently without shortcuts or cost saving measures.
5) Despite setting the air suspension in Comfort mode, the ride was still taught and a bit firmer than expected. I rate it almost exactly the same as the X. When the Sport mode was chosen, it became very taught as expected. Overall, I was still surprised that the Comfort mode was no softer than the X. Compared to the GX470, for example, the Comfort mode of the Touareg wasn't really a comfort mode at all. The GX470, by contrast, positively floats in the Comfort mode as one might expect.
6) The NAVI is one of the few real foibles in the Touareg. The system uses six CDs that go into a changer hidden in a side panel of the back. This same six CD changer is also the only one available for playing music CDs. Therefore, you can choose to have complete NAVI coverage with all six NAVI CDs, or you can choose to have limited NAVI coverage and play some music CDs, or you can choose to have the normal six CDs in your changer and have no NAVI at all. Such a glaring mistake is very surprising for a vehicle in this price range.
7) The brakes have a grabby feeling. The brakes lacked any sort of smooth engagement and seemed to be either off or on. Despite driving the car for more than 30 minutes, I never figured out a way to smoothly engage the brakes. I did like the stainless steel gas and brake pedals, however.
8) The seats were a big disappointment. Maybe its because I'm older, but I think luxury seats should be softer than a sheet of plywood. But that's not the worst part. The seats, despite being extra firm, don't hold you in place. I adjusted the seats about twenty times and never found a combination that allowed me to sit back and feel planted. The X, like most cars, does a good job of holding you in place with comfortable seats. The Touareg holds you out on the edge of the your seat and causes you to slide in all directions when you hit the twisties. Inexcusable in a luxury SUV.
9) Even though I have a few harsh complaints above, overall, I do like the Touareg and hereby give it two thumbs up. But, I still prefer the X. And when you add in the fact that the Touareg is $10k more comparably equipped, well...nuff said. |
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| jswift2000 |
quote:
Originally posted by ImOnlyTen
They also have better build quality than any Honda/Acura!
I beg to differ that argument. Honda makes one of the best, if not the best, and most reliable car on the market (best meaning form and functionality, or ergonomics - imho). |
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| feliz |
I drove a V8 Touareg yesterday and really liked it. As already pointed out the NAV is poor and of course the vehicle itself is smaller than the X, probably too small for me. Interior materials were of very high quality and well laid out. Faster than the X and handled better. I thought it looked great, the one I drove had the large wheels and silver adjustble roof racks.
Would I but one...no. Everyone I know that has purchased a VW product recently is having bad experiences, one has had a Passat less than a year and is selling. Our newspaper had reliability ratings in Friday's paper and VW was next to Kia. I know these reports always conflict with one another but I've read and heard enough evidence to prove to me the VWs just aren't that reliable and appear to be getting worse. |
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| Captain MDX |
quote:
Originally posted by feliz
I drove a V8 Touareg yesterday and really liked it. As already pointed out the NAV is poor and of course the vehicle itself is smaller than the X, probably too small for me. Interior materials were of very high quality and well laid out. Faster than the X and handled better.
Would I but one...no. Everyone I know that has purchased a VW product recently is having bad experiences, one has had a Passat less than a year and is selling. Our newspaper had reliability ratings in Friday's paper and VW was next to Kia. I know these reports always conflict with one another but I've read and heard enough evidence to prove to me the VWs just aren't that reliable and appear to be getting worse.
Did you went to the one in Richmond Auto Mall????? |
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| feliz |
quote:
Originally posted by Captain MDX
Did you went to the one in Richmond Auto Mall?????
Correct Captain. |
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| Captain MDX |
quote:
Originally posted by feliz
Correct Captain.
I think I saw your car parked in front of the dealer. Is your MDX silver???? |
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| feliz |
quote:
Originally posted by Captain MDX
I think I saw your car parked in front of the dealer. Is your MDX silver????
No, mine's the grey that's new this year, I think it's called slate grey metalic or something. I was parked right in front of the Element on Hondas lot, across from BMW. My hobby is test driving cars, the dealers have been putting up with me for about 45 years. Maybe I spoke with you, I talked to a lot of people, there was a lot of interest in the Touareg. |
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| Captain MDX |
quote:
Originally posted by feliz
No, mine's the grey that's new this year, I think it's called slate grey metalic or something. I was parked right in front of the Element on Hondas lot, across from BMW. My hobby is test driving cars, the dealers have been putting up with me for about 45 years. Maybe I spoke with you, I talked to a lot of people, there was a lot of interest in the Touareg.
I ask this because I went to Richmond Auto Mall yesterday too and I saw a silver 03 MDX parked right in front of the VW dealership so my guess it belongs to you. BTW did you go to the Nissan dealership??? They have brand new 2004 Quest inside. Fully loaded (over $50,000 CDN though)!!!!!! |
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| xcel |
Hi All:
___Lexus tops in auto durability, Mercedes drops …quote:
Nov 21, 2002 … Volkswagen AG's Audi luxury vehicle brand also suffered a sharp drop, falling 19 percent this year from 328 problems per 100 vehicles last year to below average this year, Walters said.
___J.D. Powers 2003 Initial Quality Car Survey:
Brand and Problems per 100 vehicles
code:
Lexus 76
Cadillac 103
Infiniti 110
Acura 111
Buick 112
Mercury 113
Porsche 117
BMW 118
Toyota 121
Jaguar 122
Hond 128
Volvo 128
Chevrolet 130
Audi 132
Mercedes Benz 132
Industry Average 133
Oldsmobile 134
Chrysler 136
Ford 136
Dodge 137
Lincoln 139
Nissan 139
Pontiac 142
Hyundai 143
Volkswagen 143
GMC 144
Suzuki 144
Jeep 146
Subaru 146
Mazda 148
Mitsubishi 148
Saturn 158
Saab 160
Mini 166
Kia 168
Land Rover 190
Hummer 225
___The quality survey may not have an impact on the vehicle you drive now nor the vehicle you decide to purchase today or tomorrow but it should.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net |
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| Captain MDX |
quote:
Originally posted by feliz
Maybe I spoke with you, I talked to a lot of people, there was a lot of interest in the Touareg.
Opps. Sorry. You didn't talk to me because I didn't even talk to anyone except the sells in VW. Which dealer did you went????? I went to Nissan (because I want to see the new Quest), VW (because I want to see the Toureg), Lexus (because I want to see the RX330) and Mazda (because I want to see the Mazda 6). Planning to go to Toyota on August to see the Echo Hatchback. What's your feliz?? |
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| feliz |
Interesting. Thanks for posting excel. lexus sure has a clear lead to no ones suprise. I am suprised at where MB sits in the standings though.
Captain, I'm not sure what you mean by "What's your feliz"? I didn't see the Quest at the dealership but I have seen one on the road, I liked the looks!! |
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| The Toad |
here is a nice spec sheet from VW comparing the Tour-egg to MDX and other vehicles (give's dimensions etc in a nice easy to read to read format)
Egg comparison |
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| ndahbar |
Well, I have to say, the V8 Touareg with the super package ($7K) which has some really nifty stuff can be had for MSRP $48K, that ain't too bad at all! Good job VW for controlling costs. Anyway unfortunately I am sure the Navi pales in comparison with the MDX's (2003 at least, anyway). Alas you get a lot more toys for your 48K.
I think it will sell a lot. VW has an overall STRONG brand name in this country, that I can tell you FOR SURE. |
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| ColoradoMDX |
| Toureg looks like a great off-roader, but luxury? When I looked at them the seats were made of "leatherette"? (Their word not mine.) I'll take the nice leather in my X. |
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| wmquan |
quote:
Originally posted by ColoradoMDX
Toureg looks like a great off-roader, but luxury? When I looked at them the seats were made of "leatherette"? (Their word not mine.) I'll take the nice leather in my X.
The base vehicle has leatherette, yes. But most Touareg's will ship with leather in the package. With the leather, the Touareg's interior is more luxurious than the MDX's. Real wood, better quality leather than the MDX's thin, cheaper stock.
My big complaint about the Touareg is that the $40k V6 model (equipped) is underpowered. The V8 with options is in the $50k range. :eek: |
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| grogsuz |
| Test drove Toureg with V-6 last week. Good looks,aggressive stance,confusing instrumenation (stereo controls etc,not intuitive at all),tight cabin,limited legroom in back seat.With high curb weight,what a dog! I'll gladly keep my X. In all fairness the 4.2 V-8 with air suspension might be an altogether more desiarble vehicle. |
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| neide |
quote:
Originally posted by wmquan
My big complaint about the Touareg is that the $40k V6 model (equipped) is underpowered. The V8 with options is in the $50k range. :eek:
Its not that bad. Go price it out. I get a reasonably loaded V8 for 43k. |
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| wmquan |
quote:
Originally posted by neide
Its not that bad. Go price it out. I get a reasonably loaded V8 for 43k.
I did price it out on VW's site (no discounts off of MSRP for now, and VW historically has low spreads between dealer cost and MSRP).
With the options I'd be interested in, it was over $48k. A lot of the desirability of the vehicle comes from some of the pricey options, e.g. the air suspension at $2,300, bi-xenons at $750 (a good price, actually), and the wood trim. Not to mention a better sound system.
Sure, you can price a V8 for under $43k, but there'll be a lot less bought at that price. Once you tack on the Premium Plus package which I'm sure many will get, it's over $48k, which is nearly $50k in my book.
Which gets you a vehicle with some great dynamics, luxury, and off-road ability. But also highly questionable reliability (first year, Slovak manufacturing), a gas-guzzling engine, and limited rear seat room and cargo room (for a 5k lb+ SUV! go figure!).
Definitely a vehicle for a certain niche. I like it a lot, but I don't think I'm not in that target market. I know VW was going for its young Passat buyers and didn't want to compromise off-road ability. But I'd have preferred they build a dynamic, lighter, luxurious, on-road-oriented vehicle. Sure, that would run them right into the buzzsaw of the competition, but they've done well with the Passat. |
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| Desant |
OK, I took a ride in one during a business trip last week. REALLY nice and fast. Somewhat "dry" ride in the back seat, but still very nice.
I test drove one V6 and one V8 last Saturday. Here are my impressions.
Raves: Really fast, really sporty, takes corners just like X5, less body roll than MDX. Feels like you are driving a car. Dashboard was really nice at night - like a cockpit of an airplane. Very luxurious inside.
Rants: $49-52K for well loaded V8. That is crazy!!! It is a VW!!! Small inside - back seat not big and not a lot of space in the back for cargo. VW is known for quality problems, especially for the first 2 years.
Overall, I loved the SUV, but I would not buy one. |
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| wmquan |
quote:
Originally posted by Desant
Rants: $49-52K for well loaded V8. That is crazy!!! It is a VW!
I found out that by not going crazy into all options (e.g. bypass the air suspension), you can get a very well loaded V8 with a ton of equipment (including a lot the MDX doesn't have) for about $44k. That's not quite as bad, though still pricey. |
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| vicpai |
quote:
Originally posted by wmquan
I found out that by not going crazy into all options (e.g. bypass the air suspension), you can get a very well loaded V8 with a ton of equipment (including a lot the MDX doesn't have) for about $44k. That's not quite as bad, though still pricey.
......how could you bypass the most desirable option of them all?? ;) .....isn't that the whole point of this vehicle? One moment you take it to "Lion's Back" (or something like that) in Utah which supposedly has some really UNREAL off road trails (this is where those car mag reviewers took it), raise the suspension six and a half inches and you're off traversing the steepest boulders without the slightest worry. The next moment you lower the vehicle six and a half inches and you're carving canyon roads like a Porsche 911 Carrera 4S (Okay, maybe not a 911 :D ) |
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| wmquan |
quote:
Originally posted by vicpai
......how could you bypass the most desirable option of them all?? ;) .....isn't that the whole point of this vehicle? One moment you take it to "Lion's Back" (or something like that) in Utah which supposedly has some really UNREAL off road trails (this is where those car mag reviewers took it), raise the suspension six and a half inches and you're off traversing the steepest boulders without the slightest worry. The next moment you lower the vehicle six and a half inches and you're carving canyon roads like a Porsche 911 Carrera 4S (Okay, maybe not a 911 :D )
It's certainly true that the air suspension dramatically helps this vehicle's off-road capability. But, I bet a lot of buyers still will never take the vehicle off-road. |
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| ImOnlyTen |
quote:
Originally posted by Desant
OK, I took a ride in one during a business trip last week. REALLY nice and fast. Somewhat "dry" ride in the back seat, but still very nice.
I test drove one V6 and one V8 last Saturday. Here are my impressions.
Raves: Really fast, really sporty, takes corners just like X5, less body roll than MDX. Feels like you are driving a car. Dashboard was really nice at night - like a cockpit of an airplane. Very luxurious inside. (Agree completely)
Rants: $49-52K for well loaded V8. That is crazy!!! It is a VW!!! Small inside - back seat not big and not a lot of space in the back for cargo. VW is known for quality problems (are you CRAZY! VW has some of the best-built interiors in the world!) especially for the first 2 years.
Overall, I loved the SUV, but I would not buy one. (hmm)
I love the Touareg. If my dad wasn't so worried about fuel economy, we would have it. And by the way, VW has some of the
best-bulit interiors in the world with amazing attention-to-detail and are better than some Honda models like the Odyssey and RSX. Sorry, just had to let that out. I am quite a VW fan, as you have proabaly noticed. |
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