| diogenes |
| two month old mdx, motor stopped, dealer states that water pump may have failed causing timing belt to break, causing all valves to be bent, requiring major, lengthy downtime and unspecified repairs to motor. water pump recall issued by acura about 5 weeks ago, local dealer unable to check pump until next week. too late. anybody else have similar problems? |
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| bordned |
| I had the same thing happen with about 2000 miles on my MDX. I didn't even make the 1st payment yet when it died. The timing belt was shredded. They replaced the belt & water pump and I had it back in 2 days. Truck runs great other then the tapping noise that is now heard. I took it back to the dealer & they put it side by side to a new MDX & confirmed that there is a tap. The mechanic said it could be a lifter & may go away but i seriously doubted it. I said I would take it back at 3000 miles for the 1st oil change to have it fixed. Well I just hit 5000 miles on it & I still havent been able to get there to have it serviced. And yes, it still tapps. I am going to try & take it back this week. So far thats the only problem I have had with the truck. No loss in MPG or power. I'll let you know what the tap is when I get it fixed. |
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| AcuraDoc |
The tap is a bad valve. Did you post about your water pump and belt failure? If so, I think some of us advised you to have the dealer tear down the entire engine and replace most of the top end. If you can hear the tap now, it will only get worse over time. Sooner or later you'll need a complete top end rebuild and I hope that your warranty will cover it.
Good luck and keep us updated. |
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| srpbep |
diogenes,
Wow ... this is really sad. :28:
I "assume" that your dealer has now found the time to address your concerns!! What a shame.
How long are they saying that it "will be in the shop"? What type of car have they given you to drive?
I would:
** Complain bitterly to Acura.
** You were notified about the problem and attempted to get it resolved BEFORE the engine ate its lunch.
** Now, because of the Acura dealer "not being able to handle the problem", your brand new MDX has a thrashed engine.
** IMHO, the dealer should have had you bring the X in and give you a loaner to drive until they could get it fixed. I would definately point this out to Acura. Had the dealer done this, it would have saved your engine and saved Acura a ton of money.
** I would ask Acura for a brand new MDX.
This is not only sad ... the whole thing is the result of stupidity!! |
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| srpbep |
bordned,
I don't get it. Your timing belt broke and obvioiusly did some internal enginge damage. Why don't you take the MDX in, have them write it up [warranty claim], get the loaner that they need to provide, and drive the loaner until they fix the problem.
I find it really silly that "The mechanic said it could be a lifter & may go away".
If you get push back from the dealer, simply tell them to:
1. Put it in writing
-or-
2. Call Techline.
I doubt that they will do 1 (e.g. put it in writing) and I can't believe that they would refuse to call Techline.
If they give you any more grief, why not simply call Acura, tell them what has happened and then ask why they are jerking you around. |
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| oceanMDX |
| sounds like you have valve trouble in the engine. This must be fixed. |
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| torchny |
We had the water pump problem when our MDX had only a little bit over 1,000 miles. Luckily, the timing belt did not completely break so after the fix we are at 3,600 miles now without any problem. It's really sad to see something like this still happened almost 2 months after the recall was issued. Certainly hope the dealer and Acura corporate will do everything possible to make you feel better.
Good luck.
torchny |
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| Matthew Hill |
| I hate to tell you this but at the same time I hate to be tattle-tailing on another technicain, but I can't stand tech's getting a bad reputation by a few bad examples. But anyways to tell you the truth your MDX does'nt even have lifters the only acura's that ever had lifters are RL's newer style Legends (91-95) and 96-98 3.2TL's. So for your dealer to tell you that your lifters are tapping is a bold faced lie, I have personally had to replace both cylinder heads on an MDX and know that the valves are fully adjustable and the only reason for a valve tap would be a slightly bent valve that is not fully seating and not properly contacting the rocker arm, take it in and get that thing fixed, or tell the dealer to do a cylinder leakdown test and watch them do it. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by Matthew Hill
I hate to tell you this but at the same time I hate to be tattle-tailing on another technicain, but I can't stand tech's getting a bad reputation by a few bad examples. But anyways to tell you the truth your MDX does'nt even have lifters the only acura's that ever had lifters are RL's newer style Legends (91-95) and 96-98 3.2TL's. So for your dealer to tell you that your lifters are tapping is a bold faced lie, I have personally had to replace both cylinder heads on an MDX and know that the valves are fully adjustable and the only reason for a valve tap would be a slightly bent valve that is not fully seating and not properly contacting the rocker arm, take it in and get that thing fixed, or tell the dealer to do a cylinder leakdown test and watch them do it.
Thanks for mentioning it! I was thinking the same thing, that the MDX does not have hydraulic lifters. And then I thought, how can noise from mechanical ones go away unless they are adjusted, or something is repaired (ie; bent valve).
Wow, can't believe a tech would not know better. I can see a service writer might guess that since they often have a work history at all kinds of other dealerships without the tech training. |
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| srpbep |
bordned,
I think the message is "your motor is broke" !!! |
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| miro |
| Anybody knows if water pump issue has been addressed with 2003's? |
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| renov8r |
quote:
Originally posted by miro
Anybody knows if water pump issue has been addressed with 2003's?
The problem was a small batch of water pumps. There was an incorrect bolt length issue, the timing belt rubbed against the bolt and would fail. While it is possible that some 02 owners may not have had the corrected water pumps installed, the 02s & 03s manufactured AFTER the problem was found used water pumps that did not suffer from this defect.
YOU ARE SAFE! |
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| bordned |
Ok guys, well here is an update on where I stand with my MDX. Finally got an appointment for 11/14 to bring it in for the tapping/knocking noise.
Current mileage 6650.
While it was there, I had them fix a few other things like: 2) the NAVI invert problem which I was having quite often. 3) The Cover for the jack on the rear drivers side kept falling off. 4) The rear seat sqeaked constantly.
Here is what the fixed:
1) They adjusted the valves. (Still has same noise)
2) They applied a software patch which seems to have fixed that problem.
3) They ordered a new cover
4) They lubricated the seat hinges (Squeak is gone!)
I called them as soon as I got home and told them that the engine still makes the same noise. They said the earliest I could bring it back was on 11/25.
Mileage 6911
Well today it is getting towed in again! The power steering pulley sheered off around the bolt. Probably from the tech over tightening the bolt when it was there for service. Because they are closed, I left a message with the service dept to also address the knock/tapping noise. This will be #2 try at fixing it. I would love to get rid of the damn thing & get a new one with no problems. I mean that is why I decided to by a $42,000 Acura. To have no headaches. Yet that is all I have had with this one. Unfortunatly there isn't much I can do is there? I know NJ Lemon Law says that I can get a new car if either A) The car is not fixed after 3x for the same problem within 2 years or 18,000 miles or B) Has been in for service for 20 calendar days within 2 years or 18,000 miles. Anyone know how I can get rid of this piece of **** without it costing me more $$$$$? |
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| bordned |
| Here is the pump & bolt |
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| mystic |
Wow. I am sorry to hear this. I too bought Acura to avoid this exact type of thing.
Any chance that there's another dealer anywhere nearby? I'd certainly change dealers if I could! |
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| mdxfanatic |
You say that it is bad that it has been 2 months since Acura has issued the recall, but how many of you have logged on to Ownerlink in the last two months??? This site was set up for you when you purchased your MDX and as soon as Acura releases any recalls or campains on your vehicle a message is left on your ownerlink website. You are also sent a paper letter but those do take time to reach you. I understand that we spent good money for this vehicle, but it is still mechanical and things do break. Acura's overall reputation for building quality vehicles is well known and is one of the reasons that each and every one of us purchased this vehicles over the rest. Whenever we buy a car we take the risk that the vehicle will fail at some point in time, that's why we are offered Extended warranties at the tie of purchase.
To pitch a fit at the dealer for this problem is unreasonable. Have you ever heard the phrase "you catch more flies with honey". The same goes here. They will do whatever they can to assist you, and will bend over backwards for you. Don't put the dealer against you by you attitude or you will only get the basic required solutions, never anything extra.
I am lucky, my MDX hasn't gone through these problems. But I also pay attention to Ownerlink and brought mine in to have the recall work performed prior to anything going wrong. So to say anything bad about Acura you must look to yourself first and say "Did I do everything I could do to prevent the problem?"
CHECK OWNERLINK ITS A GREAT SOURCE OF INFORMATION!!! |
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| nwaring |
The one thing I don't like about the site is that the first thing I see when I enter is this......Your 2001 Acura MDX is not included in the Transmission Warranty Extension. For more information, please see the Press Release. :(
Niles |
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| BruinMDX |
Hardly think that Ownerlink could've prevented all that diogenes and bordned have experienced.
Couldn't even register on Ownerlink for an 03 MDX because it didn't have it as an option for 03 MDX's or purchase dates. Had to enter my VIN # to circumvent the automatic menus which do not even show 03 MDX's.
Nevertheless, I think Ownerlink is a great tool and source of information, however this is NOT diogenes and bordned's fault for not going to Ownerlink. Ownerlink does not solve the problems of Acura techs lying about "lifters" in the MDX or power steering sheering off around the bolts. Don't think diogenes and bordned could've have prevented any of this by going to Ownerlink. |
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| mdxfanatic |
| Your right!!! Unfortunately a certain few people have to bear the cross for the rest of us. If there aren't consumers that have the problem a manufacturer can not and will not be able to recognize that there is a problem in the first place. Yes this does cause an inconvience for us as consumers, when this happens to us, but to raise all hell at the manufacture for having an issue is ridiculous. Have you ever visited an automotive manufacturing plant??? Do you really believe that there is someone who takes a magifiying glass to each and every part that goes into an automobile. This concept is cost prohibitive. So issues do occur. This is the reason that they give a warranty. If the manufacturer believed that their process and their product was impervious to error do you think that they would spend the money to insure their product??? The answer is no; why spend money for something that is not needed. You can say all day long that you spent $40,000 not to have this problem. Well if that is your feeling, then you are very ignorant. Ask anyone that has owned a BMW. You spend $75,000 on a new 745I knowing that the car will be in the shop for repairs. These people aren't ignorant for spending that amount of money because they atleast realize that this will happen. I would understand if Acura wasn't standing behind the product by fixing the problem and instead saying that it was user error. I promise you this, if you are not getting results from your local dealer it is simply because you walked in with a chip on your shoulder all pissed off because you spent $40,000 two weeks ago and it's all messed up now. Drop the attituted and your service department will do what ever it takes to make the problem right. |
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| TheWorm |
mdxfanatic,
First, it isn't the owner's responsibility to continually check Ownerlink for recall alerts. It is the manufacturer's responsibility to notify owners. In addition, we had a scanned hardcopy of the waterpump recall up here LONG before anything was on Ownerlink.
Second, having to wait an extended period of time for the waterpump check is absurd -- since it can (and has) caused catastrophic failure. I would ask you how you'd feel having to wait WEEKS for your recall check on your brand new car (and the check takes how long, 30 minutes?), but I doubt you even drive one (see my final comment, below). Why wouldn't a halfway decent service department "squeeze in" a check that takes all of .4 hrs of book/warranty time for a customer who just bought the car?
A service person commenting that the "tapping will go away" is equally absurd. Honda makes fine engines, but they don't fix themselves, especially when a timing belt goes.
Third, your presumption that it is somehow the owner's fault that they receive less-than-all-5-on-the-survey service is BS.
Finally, why are power steering pulleys shearing off AFTER the H2O pump recall fix is performed? Probably for the same reason that some owners have power steering problems after the dealer installs a towing package. The techs don't read/follow directions. The P/S pulley is either over- or under-torqued in the first case, and the fluid isn't topped off per instructions in the second. Unless you have another explanation (the owner was a jerk, so we skipped a few steps?).
Here's an opportunity to add some value: poke your head into the service department right outside your door and ask one of the techs why a dealer would send a post-timing-belt-blown "tapping engine" out the door, claiming it'll fix itself.
Yea, I'm calling bull**** on you. I won't post the name of the dealership you're posting from, out of respect for your privacy.
But you might be more credible if you'd have identified yourself as working at one and offering the dealer's perspective. Or not. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by mdxfanatic
Do you really believe that there is someone who takes a magifiying glass to each and every part that goes into an automobile. This concept is cost prohibitive. So issues do occur. This is the reason that they give a warranty.
If they obviously feel it's cheaper to fix the problem later, then let them put their money where their mouth is!
Don't give me that 'customer's attitude' crap. That's part of doing business, it's equal service or they can service THIS!
:eek: |
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| mystic |
quote:
Originally posted by mdxfanatic
Ask anyone that has owned a BMW. You spend $75,000 on a new 745I knowing that the car will be in the shop for repairs.
Ummmmm....I DID ask many people who owned various BMWs. That's the #1 reason that I'm logged into ACURAMDX.org and not BMWX5.org.
I don't think customers expect to NEVER have problems. However, I do believe that customers of a premium line of cars have every right to expect premium service. Doesn't sound to me like lies and "it'll fix itself" are premium service qualities...
I expect a qualified, knowledgeable technician to take care to investigate the problem fully, take the time required, replace parts/make adjustments required and return the vehicle to me with the problem FIXED, with no NEW problems as a result. Does that sound unreasonable?
The more money that is involved in a situation like this, the more emotion (generally) that is involved as well. I think most people are willing to allow for a mistake here and there, but deception and excuses are something that will never (and should never) be tolerated. |
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| srpbep |
mdxfanatic,
I agree with both DaleB and TheWorm EXCEPT in one area -- I think that they were both too kind in their response. I was really wondering what planet you were from until TheWorm pointed out that you were from planet Dealership. Anyway, their kindness presents me the opportunity to supplement their observations:
You may believe that the Acura Service is simply the "very best". Glad for you. Some of us have experienced totally BS service from the Dealerships (maybe yours included). Let's see, that might include:
** Problem, what problem? We can't experience the problem. Yeah right, deaf, dumb, blind AND stupid.
** Problem, what problem? When cornered thanks to info from this site, you finally get "oh, THAT problem".
** The seat is loose? Gee, too bad. Oh other dealers have fixed it for other customers? Gee, that is nice. We don't fix loose seats here.
** Yup, you're right, the spare tire hanger is leaking oil, we verified that. Question to dealer: "Sooo, what did you do"? Response: We veified that it is leaking oil. Question: Sooo, what did you do? Response: Nothing else, what did you want us to do?
** Oh, you want us to look at the timing belt? Sorry, not enough profit, bring it back on a slow day when it is more convenient for the dealership. If you should blow up the engine while waiting for us to fit you in, just have it towed here -- that's a "good repair" (profitable), we'll fit it right in.
** We fixed the timing belt. Ignore that knocking sound, it is simply a bent valve. It will fix itself, be patient.
** Yeah we noticed that the a lot of water pumps are failing after the timing belt recall. Must be a flaw in the xxxxxxx, we didn't do anything to cause that, totally unrelated.
** ohhhh, could go on, but why bother.
Hey, gotta admit the OwnerLink site is absolutely incredible. Did you see the new logon message:
===================================
MDX OWNERS BE ALERTED. THE FOLLOWING PROBLEM CAN RESULT IN SERIOUS INJURY, EVEN DEATH:
ACURA discovered a year ago that there is a problem with the rear sway bar links (thought we should probably inform owners at some point). Due to a design/manufacturing problem, the links are breaking all over the country. In fact, the need for replacement parts has created a national backorder problem. The link frequently breaks for no apparent reason and you might not be aware that the link on your MDX is broken. Additionally, if the link is broken, the MDX will not respond properly in emergency manuvers should they be necessary. So, be apprised that you might hit that semi-truck rather than being able to manuver around it. Additionally, the broken link might contact the adjacent tire and cause a blowout. So, for those that drive at freeway speeds, be aware the the problem could happen at any moment, cause a blowout, and result in loss of control of the vehicle, cause an accident and/or a rollover incident. We understand from carefull study of the Explorer issues that such accidents have been known to result in serioius injury, even death.
Soooo, mdxfanatic, let me know what you think of OwnerLink when you read the above message. Yeah, I am looking forward to reading it too.
PS -- What exactly do you do at the dealerhship that you work at? And if you are willing to share, what dealership is this? |
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| bordned |
Ok MDXFANATIC, first of all, in response to Your question of "Did I do everything I could to prevent the problem?" Well let me tell you this. I now log onto Ownerlink all the time, in fact, I setup my monthly payments thru that. The problem I have is this. I bought the car in August. After 2 weeks of owning it & just over 2000 miles, the timing belt broke. I didn't even make the first payment on it yet. Or received any paperwork about Ownerlink. And on that note, OwnerLink still says my MDX is not affected by any of the recalls. When in fact IT IS! I had no warning on it. In fact the dealer said my X was the first they have had with that problem. I ended up getting the recall notice about a month later after the incedent.
2nd of all, I never pitched a fit to the dealer. I have been nothing but nice to them and patient. I never raised my voice to them or threatend them or even had an attitude with them. My point now is that my patience is wearing THIN. Tech incompetence is NOT my fault.
3rd of all Yes I have been to a manufacture plant. And in fact, I used to be a Level 2 Honda technician for Autosport Honda about 10 years ago. I then used to own a Gas Station/Repair shop. I know exactly what the problem is. I knew that the lifter thing was bull****. But I have been giving them the chance to do thier job since I did PAY for it.
Everything that has been happening to my X has been a chain reaction / snowball effect. The bolt wore thru the timing belt, the tap is now there, the power sterring pullrey broke because of them over/under tightening the bolt, what's next. When they do say that the valve needs to be replaced, do I dare let them replace it since they can't even replace the timing belt without screwing something else up? |
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| mdxxxx |
Wow, looks like I was late to this meeting....
srpbep, Worm, DaleB, I agree totally with your statements, and opinions. I hope mdxfanatic merely miscommunicated his position, and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Mdxfanatic, please read the comments learn from them. We understand that no one is perfect, however, some customer service experiences cannot be tolerated. I'm sure most of us can deal with occasional mechanical breakdowns, however, what can make a nuisance turn into a major issue is the service and how the customer is treated. I believe most owners are reasonable people, and I don't think owners would initiate unpleasantness or hostility. The hostility is more reactive in nature when we are lied to, ignored, and generally disrespected. Just my .02 |
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| mdxfanatic |
Let's set the record straight. I am an employee of a car dealership. I have also purchased a 2002 MDX. I do not work for Acura, however my company does own an Acura dealership. I am in sales, and understand how to react toward customers, especially when they do experience problems. This is my experience: customers portray the service department as badguys. I can understand, you bring your car in for routine maintence and the advisor gives you a list of additional things that your "need" to do. Or, your coming in for a problem. This never sits well. My point is this. Acura is learning from this problem. As I said earlier there does have to be a select few who have the problem happen before they recognize that this is a design flaw not just a random occurence. This hold true for the aftermath as well (the steering pump issue). When they design a vehicle each and every part of the design goes through hundreds of computer generated test to determine the saftey of the systems in place. Some risks are determinined to be managable. My point is this; it is not the service advisors/tecnicians/managers fault and they shouldn't be traeted as though it is. Remember: the dealerships do earn profit even when you come in to have warranty work performed. They will do eveything they can to fix the problem. In certain instances they are only able to do as the manufacturer tells them. This is not to say that they would intentionally put a vehicle back on the road knowing that there is a saftey problem with the vehicle.
For the concerns with the "We are unable to duplicate the concern" issue. Folks, this really does happen. This is not the service departments way of blowing you off. Sometimes what customers are explaining they just can't get the problem to happen. Unfortunately this type of thing will always occur, whether you bring the vehicle to "Joe Shmo" dealership or a Dealership of Distinction. |
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| renov8r |
| it ought to do wonders |
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| srpbep |
renov8r,
You're most welcome. Do as you wish (heck, you don't need me to approve this!!). I percieve this as a dangerous situation. As I see it, the situation can duplicate the Exploder problem and cause a blowout. Since I know about it, yep, I am concerned:
** My wife drives the X, every two weeks puts it on the freeway for a 200 mile round trip drive. She is planning an 800 mile drive. Sooo, yep this bothers me.
** A blow out in a car is dangerous. A blow out in an SUV is more dangerous (higher center of gravity). Don't believe me, go back and read up on the Explorer. Granted, only some got hurt. Granted even fewer died. But some did get hurt, and yes, some died.
** I don't like going home every night, crawling under the MDX, and cheking the links but I do it. I'm not suggesting that you do it. For me to not do it is not feasible knowing about the problem. Granted, the incidence of failure/blowout should be very low compared to the Exploder, nevertheless, it is there AND I KNOW.
Anyway, for those who are concerned, I am planning on installing a leash this weekend on both links. The goal will be to make sure that, in the event of another link failure, that the broken link will not be able to even get near the tire.
Sooo, renov8r, do as you see fit. I will (and others might) take a bit of precaution to decrease vulnerability to a known issue. What are the odds ... I don't know ... but the thread on the link tally does suggest that this is a problem, not just a 1 in a million freak failure. The report on the link failure blowout was not mine. I wasn't smart enough to see that coming. But come it did and I had nothing to do with making that happen. |
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| srpbep |
renov8r,
Hmmmm ... just reread your post and took it totally differently the 2nd time around ... soooo, depending, my reply may have been off the mark.
If the thread gave birth to a recall (what I believe is in order) since it is clearly a safety issue (possible blowout), I would think that wonders may be overstated, but of value I could work with. |
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