| wow, really inaccurate info on the Mercedes web site!
- Click HERE for Original Thread
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I just sent a lengthy message to MBUSA telling them to update their web site. The info they have re: the mdx in their comparison section was quite off. they have at least 5 points incorrect. Hey M-B, play fair! ( but hey, I wouldn't mind a manumatic!)
http://www.mbusa.com/brand/models/c...=ML320&menu=2_2 |
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Why should I pay an extra 1600 clams for a leather package on an ML320? They won't even let you order one w/o it? Then another 1350 for a third row seat? that's almost 3 grand just to get some leather seats! then another grand for the sunroof? Then another grand for the 6 disc changer. But hey, navi is cheaper than the mdx by 450 bucks.
The MSRP on the M-B is quite deceiving.. |
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| Fred |
Though many MDX owners will try to convince you otherwise, the MDX is not in the class of vehicle as the BMW X5 and Mercedes M-class. The MDX is basically a converted Honda minivan with a sometimes 4WD and a few gizmos added. It is constructed on the same minivan assembly line! If you are going to compare vehicles, the MDX is in the same class as the Jeep Cherokee Limited, and the Toyota Highlander. The options available, engineering, etc. are more similar to these vehicles rather than the BMW and Mercedes.
The original poster of this thread also forgets to mentions that the BMW and Mercedes come with free maintenance, roadside assistance, and available options that you will never see on a Honda product. (Integrated telephone, skyroof, much more powerful engines. etc.) The ML's drive train is of a more advanced design, more durable and and has better capacity. The high end of this vehicle can reach 60MPH in 6 sec. Of course this costs money but it is the reason that Mercedes and BMW have a mystique that Honda/Acura will never have.
Finally, Mercedes and BMW have a proven record for safety. Honda is much more spotty on this. |
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| Fred you are clueless. Mercedes has HORRIBLE reliability results on their Mercedes "SUV's". The BMW is way too small to even be considered in the MDX's class. I looked at all three quite seriously and the MDX beat them both hands down. Now go troll somewhere else. |
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Fred, The Honda Odyssey has a five star crash rating and the same is expected for the MDX (per Honda Press release). About the 4-wheel drive, all tests I've read (Car and Driver, Automobile, and Autoweek) put the MDX as better in the snow and off-road than the Mercedes. Same magazines have consistently rated the MDX above the Mercedes in acceleration, ride and handling. Also, a similarly equipped ML320 costs thousands of dollars more than an MDX. That's over five grand extra for an inferior vehicle.
It is true that Mercedes has many options not available on the MDX. They also have an impressive range of Models. Fact is, they are both great SUV's with their own strengths and weaknesses. There is no need declare one better than the other, but watch out if you want to try. |
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I have lots of specialty intrests that I can comunicate about over the 'net. I regularly post to forums about cars, food, and home improvement.
The "visits" from people who seem not to like the MDX to what is clearly a forum for those who are big supporters of the MDX are quite odd...
Sure every once in a while some clueless fanboy will post a troll on some other car forum that I frequent, but this is almost always some little kid who really has little invested (in terms of money, time, knowledge et cetera) in their "favorite ride". But the MDX "bashers" here seem different. For one, they have read (a little) at least about the MDX being from the same platform as the Odyssey. Wow, what a concept. Sharing platforms. They know the MDX doesn't have traditional full time 4WD or even what is known as full time AWD. The Acura is designed to quite literally COMBAT reduced traction conditions while minimizing the complexity and fuel efficency plenalty. They did something: INNOVATIVE.
The weirdest thing about the "MDX bashers" who post here is they DO NOT seem to subscribe to the philosophy of folks like http://poseur.4x4.org who rail against "fake" SUV's, buying SUV's for the wrong reasons, or long for the "good ol' days" of REAL SUV's for REAL TOUGH ROCKY HILL CLIMBS -- http://members.aol.com/suprscout/ . They seem to be of a very different breed, attacking the MDX for both not having enough obvious "snob appeal" AND for not being "heavy duty" enough... (I picture Karl Malone driving around in his loaded, chromed Freightliner semi screaming "I am so rich, and so tough, that I can be crazy"...)
Frankly I keep coming back to the things that I find most appealing about the MDX: size more passenger room and cargo room in a package that less bulky (and more efficent) that any other vehicle, a drive system that maximizes traction in slippery conditions with minimal penalty in "normal" condtions, a well controlled smooth ride, great passing power and decent economy, useful standard 'luxury' items: sunroof, heated power seats, factory anti-theft.
IF any other manufacturer built a clone of the MDX (and word is that Mitsubishi's replacement for it's Montero is going to be borrow alot of MDX's features/specs..) they still would not have the great reputation of Honda?Acura for designing vehicles that are reliable, durable and a good value... |
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| To me, you pay much more and get much less for the "Three Point Star". As far as engine designe, MDX's engine is more advance than MB's. MDX will accelerate faster than a MB, handle better than a MB and it comes standard with the 7 people sitting capacity. Given the facts ... How the hell people can say MB's ML320 has a better value than the MDX !!! The only thing that I agreed with people is MDX may not achieve the same status symble as MB does, but I really don't care cause I love BMW more than MB anyway :-) :-) :-) |
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| ML320_Owner |
I get a chuckle out of the more pathetic MDX owners who insist on rationalizing that by paying less they got a vehicle as good as an ML320.
If the MDX was as good you wouldn't be having long threads desperately trying to find xenon headlamps. Or trying to talk yourselves into special bulbs so you can fake it.
You wouldn't have threads debating whether or not ESP would help the MDX.
You wouldn't have to worry about the seats being comfortable.
You wouldn't have to worry about first-year reliability (for your information the ML320's reliability is now very good, after the glitches were worked out).
You wouldn't be worrying about cracked, cheap leather.
You wouldn't have a cheap, hard plastic dash that should be on a Sentra.
You wouldn't be worrying about noise.
You wouldn't be looking around trying to find real wood to replace your fake wood.
You wouldn't be discussing a class action lawsuit for towing.
You wouldn't be whining about Acura dealers charging over MSRP (MB dealers held at MSRP when the ML320 had one-year waiting lists).
You wouldn't be complaining about bad dealer service (there are some bad MB apples but as a whole they're way better than Acura dealers).
No wonder this message board is so busy. You whiners are trying to find ways to make your MDX as good as an ML320. |
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| Every car has owners who are unsatisfied. Just read Edmunds and you will see many ML320 owners gripe about their vehicles. Many say it doesn't live up to Mercedes quality and is a faux Mercedes. The most objective opinions are critics who have driven both and own neither. Their unanimous conclusion is that the MDX is better (though some prefer the BMW over the MDX). Accept the facts. |
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| I've owned Honda, Toyota, BMW, GM, Nissan, MB, Isuzu vehicals, and in my own experience and opinion, GM cars has the worst reliability and Honda and Toyota are on the top of my list, while MB is a notch below BMW. Please go figure why I pick MDX over a mini-van-look-alike MB ML320 for a at least 10K$ less !!! |
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| Let's take a look at these: MDX's engine has 4 valves per cylinder versus MB has only 3 valves, MDX has 240 hp & 245 ft-lb while MB has only 215 hp & 233 ft-lb. The fact is MDX's engine gives you better performance with better gas milage (17/23 vs 17/21) too. |
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| I have not heard anything about any class action lawsuit againt MDX about towing. All I know is MB's A platform vehical in Europe will flip over in turns even under normal driving condition. |
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quote:
Originally posted by ML320_Owner
I get a chuckle out of the more pathetic MDX owners who insist on rationalizing that by paying less they got a vehicle as good as an ML320.
If the MDX was as good you wouldn't be having long threads desperately trying to find xenon headlamps. Or trying to talk yourselves into special bulbs so you can fake it.
You wouldn't have threads debating whether or not ESP would help the MDX.
You wouldn't have to worry about the seats being comfortable.
You wouldn't have to worry about first-year reliability (for your information the ML320's reliability is now very good, after the glitches were worked out).
You wouldn't be worrying about cracked, cheap leather.
You wouldn't have a cheap, hard plastic dash that should be on a Sentra.
You wouldn't be worrying about noise.
You wouldn't be looking around trying to find real wood to replace your fake wood.
You wouldn't be discussing a class action lawsuit for towing.
You wouldn't be whining about Acura dealers charging over MSRP (MB dealers held at MSRP when the ML320 had one-year waiting lists).
You wouldn't be complaining about bad dealer service (there are some bad MB apples but as a whole they're way better than Acura dealers).
No wonder this message board is so busy. You whiners are trying to find ways to make your MDX as good as an ML320.
Well here we go again folks. Another trolling ML320 owner that wished he had an MDX. If YOU didn't want an MDX YOU wouldn't be trolling an MDX user group. I have never looked at an ML320 owners site (if their is even one) and don't give two ****s about what you or any other Pregnant Roller Skate owners think, so go way. Why do these people even think they are in the same class as an MDX? hmmmm....seems like EVERY comparison I saw on the two vehicles the MDX won hands down every time. I looked at an ML320 (ugly as it was) and I honestly thought it was a piece of junk. Poor reliability ratings as well. Now I just laugh at 'em as I drive by. Go crawl back in your hole troll. (To everyone else, I apologize for my "honesty"). |
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| Danny, you don't have to appologize about your honesty. It is may be the "Three Points Star" is so shinny that all MB owners can't see the truth and admitted that MDX is a better vehicle than a MB ML320. |
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| ...and anybody that wants to own a cheap Mercedes just to say "I have a Mercedes" is a loser anyway! |
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| Let's face it. The M-B looks like an ugly fat toad. If it was lengthened 2 feet, at least it would make a decent minivan. |
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| ML320_Owner |
Because I state what MDX owners know in their hearts but are afraid to admit.
I'm not the jealous MB troll you might think. I've been shopping for a 2nd SUV to go along with our MY2000 ML320. I think having two vehicles of the same model is way too much, so I test drove the MDX. Now that my partner and I have driven it and done our homework, I can safely say that for the money it's not even worth much more than a Highlander. Maybe if it was discounted to $1,000 above invoice. If I thought the MDX was worth it, I'd buy it.
The cheapness really shows in the MDX. I'm under the impression that many but not all of you MDX buyers are Honda owners for whom the MDX is a luxurious upgrade. Well, I'm telling you that you're selling yourself short. The interior may be an uptick from your old Honda. But it's not enough given the great competition. The MDX has a cost-cutting, low-buck interior. Cheap materials abound. I am very disappointed that Acura cut so many corners out of this vehicle:
Cheap leather. No wonder people are complaining that it creases and cracks.
Not enough leather. There's more vinyl than leather in there.
Excessive amounts of cheap plastic. Look at that cheap plastic dashboard with a faux marbled texture.
More cheap plastic in the form of fake wood. It looks terrible.
The rear windows don't go all the way down. Sorry, but that's something a Sentra or a Hyundai would do, not a luxury SUV.
Just one door lock cylinder. That's carrying cost cutting too far.
No separate lock for the hatch.
No automatic door locks.
Very thin looking, dull paint.
Lack of exterior/interior color combinations. Look at all the beautiful colors MB and Lexus has available.
The ML320 is not as expensive as you might think. My brother just bought one for $600 over invoice. Can't do that with the MDX because of Acura's inability to make enough.
Sure the MDX accelerates faster than the ML320, but I don't drag race any SUV. Plus much of the MDX's claimed horsepower is unevenly matched to its gearing, as with most Honda vehicles.
And you're not saving much by buying your MDX over an ML320. You'll have to pay for your oil changes and your VTM-4 fluid changes. Within two years Acura dealers will start to discount the MDX. That with new MDX features will cut into your 2001 MDX's resale value. Contrasted to the ML320, where I enjoy free maintenance with MB loaners, and will get resale value that's the tops. If you don't believe me, look at the lease residuals. Even older ML320s that had notable reliability problems still command top dollar.
So you can pay less to get much less, and then get less when you sell your vehicle. Doesn't sound like the value you think it is, eh? Next time you sit in your MDX look around and enjoy the sheer cheapness of your interior. |
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| Maybe we should get admin in here to develop an ignore button for SPAMMERS. Would someone please explain that none of us care about what vehicle this fella bought. I could load a bunch of useless crap on a freakin' Chevy Blazer and guess what, I wouldn't buy that piece of junk either. I really suggest that you go onto the Chevy and Hyndai site and compare your crap to theirs, cause here you're just wasting your time. |
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But because MDX is as good as we say it is:
We WILL sleep at night because we didn't pay $50K for a car whose back end got left on the assembly line, or as Dancall so eloquently put it, a pregnant roller skate.
We WILL be confident that the car will start when we leave for work.
We WILL be assured we won't have brake lights that get stuck all the time.
We WILL be able to invest those $$$ that MB owners spend on repairs.
We WILL have a car with style, class, and looks of a real SUV vs. a mini-van.
We WILL not worry about seeing our beloved MDX's employed as common, everyday delivery trucks.
We WILL be people who are confident in ourselves and don't need an emblem on the hood to tell us we've arrived.
We WILL let comments like those of ML320_Owner roll like water off a duck's back, knowing the source of these spirited statements are rooted in jealousy and envy.
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| Well said MDX-Wannabe!!!! |
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| I traded in an Audi V8 for the MDX and like the MDX better. SUV's are for getting dirty, not good sense to have a cushy hard to clean interior. Anyway, ML320_Owner, you make me laugh. Thanks for the comedy. |
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| ML320_Owner |
I post this info since I was just shopping for an MDX and ruled it out, and thought it could be useful to some of the potential MDX buyers who are on this system. Sharing of information is what this is all for, isn't it? Don't take it personally, it's only a car.
I've had no problems with my ML320. I'll bet you recent ML320s will prove more reliable than your MDXs. The latter is derived from the Honda Odyssey. That vehicle has had many quality problems.
And just to prove the point to all you owners who have been driving around thinking you've got a reliable and safe Honda vehicle, please refer to:
http://www.acuradriver.com/service/updates/01-008.asp
As you can see, the first 5,300 MDX's have been RECALLED. Acura glosses over the wording. What they're really saying in the 'update' is the passenger air bag won't deploy in a low-speed collission.That is, fail to deploy when it should deploy.
Yes, that means you first 5,300 owners have been driving around for several months now, unknowingly endangering your passenger. And Acura has only issued this recall now? Either their quality control is so bad they didn't realize it until now, or they chose to ignore it for as long as they could. Not good either way.
The date on the recall is 2-20. Have you been contacted by Acura or your dealership or are they letting you drive around with a diagnosed, unsafe condition?
OK so the MDX interior is a plasticky, vinyl exercise in cheapness. The exterior is a strippo. And now it's not even a safe vehicle. Did I mention the ML320 is the safest SUV in the planet?
So to all you folks on ridiculously long waiting lists to pay MSRP, consider the opinion of an MDX shopper who found out that the emperor has no clothes. I'm going to keep looking elsewhere, Highlander, RX300, X5. Whether or not you listen is up to you. Those who choose to ignore me can just keep scrolling by. But if you were really ignoring me you wouldn't be so quick to defend the mistake.
But even if you choose not to listen to me PLEASE take action on this recall if your vehicle is one of the 'lucky' 5,300 affected. Please don't endanger your loved ones and see your Acura doctor right away. |
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| A low speed deploy of the airbag is only beneficial for occupants not wearing their seatbelt. Wear the seatbelt and don't even worry about it. Get it fixed next time in your in for service. About which SUV is better. Everybody is entitled to their opinion. I think the BMW, Lexus and Mercedes are all good vehicles. I'm glad that the MDX won all the comparisons. It reinforces to me that I made the best objective choice. Still, they are good choices if they fit your needs. |
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First off, since I started this thread, let's go back to my original facts. I find it odd that the M-B web site has its facts incorrect, even down to the fact that the gas filler door indeed does lock! I was NOT trying to say that the M-B doesn't have MORE features (at a cost) than the MDX, indeed it is more feature rich. That is besides the point. Luxury can be found in the Land Rover Range Rove HSE, for 70 grand, perhaps once you option out the M-B it'll get close to that price. The point is that MDX owners are looking for luxury, performance, and price when purchasing their vehicle. So, once you add that folding roof on the M-B, a third row of seats, a disc changer, LEATHER (which is a 1020 option) your vehicle is starting to push the mid 40's. I would hope a vehicle that is pushing 5-10grand more has more features, it better. But hey, you'll still be stuck w/that sluggish V6 that requires you to plan ahead when passing, you'll still have that Alabama-plant reliability, you'll still have the Dodge Caravan looks, you'll still have that horribly designed stereo (read Car and Driver), you'll still have "mediocrity" (read Car and Driver), and you'll still have a non ULEV, poor gas mileage, slower 0-60, vehicle.
Please do not compare the 430 or the ML55 to the MDX, they are in a completely different class, $$ wise. Acura never intended to go after the 55k/60k suv market, they specifically noted that the competition was the RX300 and the ML320, which, by all indications, they have successfully placed a winner in the market.
Enjoy the ratttles and squeaks in that ML320!
My favority ML story was, yet again, from Car and Driver when they did their long term road test. As noted in their article, M-B wouldn't even give them the ML320 to test. they required C&D to take a 430. I guess that 40k+ "base" model wasn't long term road test worth. DOes that say something or what?
BTW-- I enjoy the MDX wannabees on the site, they find all of the interesting "whines" and summarize them well. |
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quote:
Originally posted by ML320_Owner
. . . I'm going to keep looking elsewhere, Highlander, RX300, X5. . .
Looking to dump your MB, hmmmmmm (AdiMofu!). |
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| ML320_Owner |
Sorry but you can't compare pricing when it's not apples and oranges. The MDX has no Skyroof option so why bother attempting to jack up the price in the comparison.
Yes you pay for the leather option but at least you have the option. And at least the leather is excellent-quality leather and not the thin, low-grade, cheap leather you are forced to get with the MDX. There are owners with 2 month old MDXs who are already complaining about creases and cracked. Sorry but good leather doesn't do that.
Again there's more than comparing initial price. Don't forget you can buy the ML320 for $600 above invoice. Whereas the MDX is MSRP and then you have to buy accessories like a cargo cover which comes standard with the ML320, as well as accessories to dress it up as folks here feel obligated to do. Then maintenance on the ML320 is free for the first four years. Not the case with the MDX. Voila, the price difference goes away. Then when it comes time to sell the vehicle, the ML320 will hold its value better than the MDX and you actually end up ahead.
If you think MB's web site is inaccurate take a look at Acura's comparison. They conveniently omit features lacking in the MDX such as automatic door locks, ESP, 4ETS, rear side airbags, Brake Assist, and so on and so on. Wow really inaccurate information on Acura's web site. I think I'll send them an email. |
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| ML320_Owner |
quote:
Originally posted by Beige_MDX
quote:
Originally posted by ML320_Owner
. . . I'm going to keep looking elsewhere, Highlander, RX300, X5. . .
Looking to dump your MB, hmmmmmm (AdiMofu!).
Nice try but if you bothered to read my message, I am not intending to 'dump' my ML320. Actually we intend to replace our '94 Accord with an SUV. I don't want another ML320 because I do not want two same-model cars, as excellent as the ML320 may be. So I have been shopping around and was interested after hearing about the MDX.
That's when I found out what many here tend to overlook. The MDX is barely better than the Highlander, and is far from a 'luxury SUV' with its cheap, low-grade materials and assembly. So if it's not a luxury SUV, what is it? It's inferior to the ML320 for off-roading. Where's the low-range gearing? Why isn't the underside protected?
So it's not truly a luxury vehicle nor a sport vehicle. Guess what? It's got good cargo room and can carry 7 passengers. So it's like a minivan. Oh I forgot it IS a minivan. It's a dressed-up Odyssey with part-time 4wd.
I have met luxury Suvs and you, MDX, are no luxury SUV.
I WILL enjoy my ML320 and its high-grade interior materials.
I WILL enjoy my ML320 and its superior safety features.
I WILL enjoy my ML320 and its better reliability.
I WILL enjoy my ML320 and its free maintenance.
I WILL enjoy my ML320 and its better handling.
I WILL enjoy my ML320 and its higher resale value.
I WILL enjoy my ML320 and knowing its not a minivan.
I WILL enjoy my ML320 and know its leather won't crease and crack.
I WILL enjoy my ML320 and its ESP.
I WILL enjoy my ML320 and its ability to go off-road without worrying about its durability.
I WILL enjoy my ML320 and its Brake Assist.
I WILL enjoy my ML320 and its automatic door locks.
I WILL enjoy my ML320 and know that it hasn't been recalled after only four months.
I WILL NOT put an inferior MDX next to my ML320.
I WILL look at the RX300, X5, Highlander. Audi Allroad. |
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What are you talking about? My MDX has the ability to lock the doors w/the key fob, and I can lock the doors when I hit the "lock" button. I certainly hope you're not talking about that stupid option on the Caravans when the car hits 5 mph that the doors automatically lock, or on other vehicles when you put the car in drive.
By the way, you can remove the "skyroof" from the options list, add up the comparible options on the ML320 to bring it up to MDX specs and it is still much more expensive, at invoice or not. Also, do you have the ability to lock the front and rear diffs. as you can w/the VTM-4 system? By the way, the leather is perfectly fine in my MDX. I have sat in the M-B and I don't feel like I am sitting in a more luxurious vehicle. Just the typical too hard, too flat, too stiff M-B seats.
And why is it that you can deal so well on the M-B? Is its reputation preceeding it and people are learning that it isn't worth the price, due to its reliability? I'd rather pay for a few 29 dollar oil changes, and change the diff. fluid once every 15k miles instead of having it in the shop all the time, regardless of if its a free visit or not. I don't care if they give me a freebee for the day, I still would have to take it into the shop. There isn't much required maintenance on the MDX for the first 60k or so miles. But hey, if M-B charged you for the oil change, it'd be about 89.95, I imagine. So, good for you, you are definitely saving some coin there!
Please note that there is a distinction between omissions and inaccurate data. |
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| ML320_Owner |
quote:
Originally posted by MDX-Wannabe
We WILL have a car with style, class, and looks of a real SUV vs. a mini-van.
. . .
We WILL let comments like those of ML320_Owner roll like water off a duck's back, knowing the source of these spirited statements are rooted in jealousy and envy.
Minivan? Who is really the minivan, Mr. Minivan-Driver? I love how MDX owners try to convince themselves the MDX isn't an Odyssey with leather and part-time 4wd. Maybe that's why you try hanging all sorts of accessories off of it.
If my comments were rolling off like water on a duck's back, there wouldn't be so many spirited arguments.
If I was jealous or envious, I'd buy an MDX as our second SUV. Sorry to burst your bubble there. So since I'm not jealous or envious I wonder if it's you who is jealous or envious because you bought an unsafe, cheapo Odyssey with cheap leather and part-time 4wd.
Don't squirm with envy the next time you see an M-class. You'll wear out your cheap leather seat quicker.
Cheerio. |
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quote:
Originally posted by ML320_Owner
. . Wow really inaccurate information on Acura's web site.
I hope your intelligence is better than your reading skills. The info on the Acura website is generated by the content provider, Automotive Information Center (and such content is based on information provided to them from the respective manufacturer). If you have a gripe, call them, or the original source of the info, Chrysler. I hope you compare cars based on first hand experience, not solely what you read and want to hear. Lastly, why are you wasting your time and flaunting your cerebral inabilities here? |
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ML320_Owner is so delusional I won't even try to address all his inaccuracies except for one. All reports I have read place the MDX as better off road than the ML320. Even though the ML320 has low range gear and an "off road" package, it suffers from two deficiencies that effect off road performance. First is it's suspension, it does not have the compliancy and wheel travel for traversing off road. Second, it's traction control uses the brakes to control wheel slippage, which is very bad for trying to climb hills. Never have I seen the ML320 rated better than the MDX for off road. In my opinion the MDX isn't much better and only suited for occasional off road use.
There is nothing wrong liking the ML320 more than the MDX. I would respect anybody having that opinion. But when it can only be defended with lies I will assume it is ML320_Owner who can’t live with his purchase. Hey, the MDX wasn't available when you bought your SUV. Don't feel guilty and start acting all irrational and make up things that aren't true. It only destroys your credibility.
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| All the auto magazines that I read, they all rated MDX as the number 1 pick, and MB ML320 is consistently rated behind MDX, BMW X3.0, Lexus RX300, and sometimes it is even behind Mistu's Montero and Nissan's Pathfinder. |
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ML owner, allright, you've got me! I am indeed envious of ML owners, all those ML55 owners that is. I do love speed. I'd love to have that fat engine under the hood of my vehicle. So you got me! I just wish I had the $$ to purchase it!
But hey, I figured I get something that still has pretty good performance, and actually a bit more room than the ML, and a bit more "utility", and even a locking fuel filler door, and a power passenger seat. Wait, M-B told me that the MDX doesn't have that, oh, I must be in M-B envy, or disillusioned or something that made me pick a vehicle other than the "base" M-B, the 320. Oh right. they are cheaper, so, a few months ago, when I had a CHOICE and did some SHOPPING, I decided hey, why should I buy that far superior, cheaper (so I am told since those M-B dealers are really making some sweet offers)ML320, why not buy that piece o minivan Acura. Obviously, ML-320 person, we all know how to comparison shop and none of us MDXers have been "stuck" w/a poor vehicle. We made educated decisions and personally, I am very happy w/the selection.
THIS POST BEGAN BEC. I WAS MERELY NOTING THAT THE M-B WEB SITE HAD SOME BASIC FACTS WRONG. |
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| ML320_Owner |
quote:
Originally posted by cr
What are you talking about? My MDX has the ability to lock the doors w/the key fob, and I can lock the doors when I hit the "lock" button. I certainly hope you're not talking about that stupid option on the Caravans when the car hits 5 mph that the doors automatically lock, or on other vehicles when you put the car in drive.
Stupid option? Gee it's one of the most MDX-owner requested options in the thread on what don't you like about the MDX. I guess it's only stupid if you're jealous about not having it. It's a luxury feature found on luxury vehicles.
quote:
Originally posted by cr
By the way, you can remove the "skyroof" from the options list, add up the comparible options on the ML320 to bring it up to MDX specs and it is still much more expensive, at invoice or not. Also, do you have the ability to lock the front and rear diffs. as you can w/the VTM-4 system? By the way, the leather is perfectly fine in my MDX. I have sat in the M-B and I don't feel like I am sitting in a more luxurious vehicle. Just the typical too hard, too flat, too stiff M-B seats.
You can buy the ML320 for $41k vs. $37,450 for an MDX w/Touring w/o/Nav. Yes it's more but you get more. I.e. the MDXs third row seat is a joke. You can remove the ML320s totally. You can access it easier than the gymnastics required in the MDX. The rear quarter windows open on the ML320 if you want to. If you don't want the third row you can delete that option and the ML320 is even cheaper. The price difference is made up by the free maintenance and superior resale value. Check the leasing residuals and you'll see what I mean.
Its funny because I bought the Honda Accord and paid more for it because it had better resale value. Now Honda fans are bashing someone because his ML320 has better resale than the MDX.
Funny you try to say you can lock the differentials. The M-class has a superior, permanent 4wd system, not the part-time system in the MDX that belongs in a minivan. Oops it is a minivan. I hope Acura responds quickly when you get stuck in the snow.
quote:
Originally posted by cr
And why is it that you can deal so well on the M-B? Is its reputation preceeding it and people are learning that it isn't worth the price, due to its reliability? I'd rather pay for a few 29 dollar oil changes, and change the diff. fluid once every 15k miles instead of having it in the shop all the time, regardless of if its a free visit or not. I don't care if they give me a freebee for the day, I still would have to take it into the shop. There isn't much required maintenance on the MDX for the first 60k or so miles. But hey, if M-B charged you for the oil change, it'd be about 89.95, I imagine. So, good for you, you are definitely saving some coin there!
You can deal well on the M-class because the initial hysteria has died down and it is now in good supply. This unlike the MDX where the suckers buy up the first year model and drive up demand by placing deposits with three dealers at once. Please mark my words. In a few years you'll also buy your MDX for big discounts. Acura claimed the same for the TL and guess what it now sells for big discounts.
All those 'cheaper' maintenances on the MDX will add up because you have to pay for them. Why is it most Acura dealers are urging differential fluid changes? It must be made so poorly that it needs to be replaced very often. The dealer told me that for 'severe driving conditions' you have to replace it very frequently. Again, more ownership expenditure whereas my ML320 enjoys free maintenance.
quote:
Originally posted by cr
Please note that there is a distinction between omissions and inaccurate data.
Omitting data is inaccurate data.
I enjoy this discussion. Usually someone bashing the MDX is rightfully ridiculed because they don't really understand the vehicle. However, having seriously considered purchasing one and reading the messages here, I have done my homework and understand the vehicle very well, I can back up all of my statements. Now I can share this information with other prospective MDX buyers and they can make their own decision. You have been warned. |
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read my quote. I never called the skyroof a "stupid option" . I was merely noting that you could remove it from my previous post and still come up w/a more pricey ML vis a vis the MDX.
I made a choice based on comparisons, as did you. We are all educated here, I chose the MDX, you did not. I think we get it. |
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ML320_Owner
Base Price: MDX with Touring $ 36,970 ML320 $ 35,800
Destination Charge $ 480 $ 645
however here are the MB Option(s) you need to add to get equivalent comparo:
Bose Acoustimass (R) Audio System $ 1,075
Power Tilt/Slide Tinted Glass Sunroof $ 1,095
M2 Convenience Package ML320 $ 1,150
M1 Luxury Package With Convenience Package $ 1,600
Heated Front Seats $ 620
M7 Third Row Leather Seat Package $ 1,350
Equipped Price MDX w/ Touring $ 37,450 ML320 $ 43,335
Are MB dealers discounting ML320's by $6,000?
If so, you may have a point, and I may have bought one although I'd still be giving up 25HP if I did. |
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| ML320_Owner |
quote:
Originally posted by cr
read my quote. I never called the skyroof a "stupid option" . I was merely noting that you could remove it from my previous post and still come up w/a more pricey ML vis a vis the MDX.
I made a choice based on comparisons, as did you. We are all educated here, I chose the MDX, you did not. I think we get it.
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| ML320_Owner |
quote:
Originally posted by cr
read my quote. I never called the skyroof a "stupid option" . I was merely noting that you could remove it from my previous post and still come up w/a more pricey ML vis a vis the MDX.
I made a choice based on comparisons, as did you. We are all educated here, I chose the MDX, you did not. I think we get it.
Your education obviously failed you. You obviously tried to spend less and got less. Read MY quote. You called automatic door locks a stupid option, and that is what my quote referred to. I said that if its a stupid option why do MDX owners list it as a desired item in the threads discussing what's missing from your MDX?
So its obviously you with the reading issues. Trying to read with Acura-colored glasses on is blinding you from the obvious. Or your education was as cheap as the Acura's materials. |
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| ML320_Owner |
quote:
Originally posted by MesaBeige
ML320_Owner
Base Price: MDX with Touring $ 36,970 ML320 $ 35,800
Destination Charge $ 480 $ 645
however here are the MB Option(s) you need to add to get equivalent comparo:
Bose Acoustimass (R) Audio System $ 1,075
Power Tilt/Slide Tinted Glass Sunroof $ 1,095
M2 Convenience Package ML320 $ 1,150
M1 Luxury Package With Convenience Package $ 1,600
Heated Front Seats $ 620
M7 Third Row Leather Seat Package $ 1,350
Equipped Price MDX w/ Touring $ 37,450 ML320 $ 43,335
Are MB dealers discounting ML320's by $6,000?
If so, you may have a point, and I may have bought one although I'd still be giving up 25HP if I did.
That configuration can be bought for under $41k. As I have already said yes it is more expensive when you first by. But you make up that price difference by having a better vehicle, free maintenance, and better resale value.
Yes you lose 25HP but not the corresponding amount of torque. You don't drag race an SUV so who cares.
And if you don't need the third row leather seat you don't have to pay for it. Acura forces you to pay for it whether you want it or not. I bet if it was an option a lot of people here wouldn't bother to pay for it. Just like a lot of people wouldn't pay extra for the noisy roof rack if they didn't have to pay for the Touring Package which is another big ripoff. |
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| I certainly don't desire automatic door locks. They are dangerous if you are in an accident, it may be difficult to free you from the car if the doors are locked. Ask any EMS technician. Automatic door locks are for bad neighborhoods. Perfect for the M series owner who lives in one. I can lock my doors anytime inside or outside by a push of a button (or flip of a switch). |
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| ML320_Owner |
quote:
Originally posted by GoFast_K
All the auto magazines that I read, they all rated MDX as the number 1 pick, and MB ML320 is consistently rated behind MDX, BMW X3.0, Lexus RX300, and sometimes it is even behind Mistu's Montero and Nissan's Pathfinder.
Magazines have writers as biased as the rest of us. They always hop on the latest product.
Consumer Reports rightfully blasts the ML320's early model year quality problems. But they also say the ML320 would be their highest rated SUV if it were not for the early model year quality problems. Well guess what the early model year quality problems have been fixed, so it should be their top-rated SUV, above the RX and X5.
Don't give the crap about Motor Trend SUV of the Year. Everyone knows the manufacturer who gives Motor Trend the biggest bribe wins it. The ML320 won it in the year it was eligible. Besides, the MDX didn't have the ML320 as competition in the SUV of the Year award, or it would have lost so long as MB paid them just like Acura.
Please. The magazines give awards to the lamest vehicles out there. The MDX is not lame however it's a nice cheap leather clad Odyssey minivan with part-time 4wd and a longer warranty. |
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| ML320_Owner |
quote:
Originally posted by MDXS
I certainly don't desire automatic door locks. They are dangerous if you are in an accident, it may be difficult to free you from the car if the doors are locked. Ask any EMS technician. Automatic door locks are for bad neighborhoods. Perfect for the M series owner who lives in one. I can lock my doors anytime inside or outside by a push of a button (or flip of a switch).
You are free to have your opinion. But again look for those MDX-wish-I-had-a-real-luxury-SUV folks who have written they want automatic door locks. With the M-class these features can be programmed to suit your tastes. A luxury SUV accommodates its owner's desires. |
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Is the Audi TT Quattro really a VW Beetle? Is the RX300 really a Camry? Is the MDX really an Odyssey? Of course they aren't.
The overall unibody structure above the floor shares nothing w/the Odyssey, nor do the seats, the engine output, transmission, seats, sheetmetal, tires, brakes, nor the rest of the drivetrain. You are mis-speaking by saying that it is just a merely dressed up Odyssey. It is not. I don't think TT owners will say that what they are driving has much if anything to do w/a Beetle --no quattro system, different wheelbase, engine, layout, etc.
I belive that your posts are getting a bit extraordinary and are not adding any value. |
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| The more I read ML320_Owner's responses, the more I believe that this guy or gal's mental age is no more than a 3 years old. This guy is extremely stubborn and if not stupid. If you are happy with your vehical choice, stick with it and do not bother critisize other people's choice. |
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quote:
The price difference is made up by the free maintenance and superior resale value. Check the leasing residuals and you'll see what I mean.
I did check the resale values. It took a while to find a site that listed both.
MDX
http://www.carsmart.com/cgi-bin/car...MDX&STYLE1=1322
ML320
http://www.carsmart.com/cgi-bin/car...320&STYLE1=2292
So the ML320 costs more and is worth less. Just another lie courtesy of ML320_Owner. Boy, the ML320 does sound better when you tell a bunch of lies. Stick with the facts and it wll lose everytime.
BTW, I chose the base model for both vehicles, and notice the maintenance costs are rated lower for the MDX.
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Excellent info MDXS, good to see that my new Acura, alike many an Acura or Honda will hold its value. As expected.
BY the way, for any of you out there interested in a '99 ML430, carmax has one for about 35k. Just think, the '01 will run you about 47k, so what a great deal! You gotta love that used market!
:-) |
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Wow, ML320_Owner has some serious issues going on. I, for one, am a live and let live kinda person. So enjoy your car and we'll enjoy ours. You don't have to justify your choice by dissing ours. Each car has it's pros and cons.
Don't you guys have your own web site? You should check it out. It would probably be good for your blood pressure to converse with people who will reassure you that you did the right thing.
Dharma |
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| ML320_Owner |
quote:
Originally posted by MDXS
quote:
The price difference is made up by the free maintenance and superior resale value. Check the leasing residuals and you'll see what I mean.
I did check the resale values. It took a while to find a site that listed both.
MDX
http://www.carsmart.com/cgi-bin/car...MDX&STYLE1=1322
ML320
http://www.carsmart.com/cgi-bin/car...320&STYLE1=2292
So the ML320 costs more and is worth less. Just another lie courtesy of ML320_Owner. Boy, the ML320 does sound better when you tell a bunch of lies. Stick with the facts and it wll lose everytime.
BTW, I chose the base model for both vehicles, and notice the maintenance costs are rated lower for the MDX.
You conveniently neglected to click on 'resale value' where it says:
'Resale values are calculated on the base retail price of the vehicle and do not include the value of any added optional equipment'
Guess what? The ML320 is priced low for a base. You add packages to it so you are not forced to add on junk you don't want. That site PROVES that the ML320 is worth more than the MDX in resale. Once you put on the value of M1, M2, M7, and other packages, the resale value will go higher. Check out http://www.kbb.com if you don't believe me.
Yes the maintenance costs for the ML320 are higher but you don't have to pay for them. Maintenance is free. The web site conveniently omits it.
I find it fascinating that when anyone says anything remotely negative about the MDX they are attacked. If anything, the facts I've presented here stand as the real facts that are intelligently reasoned. Many attackers have to resort to convenient re-interpretations. Obviously you're not as intelligent as you claim. |
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| ML320_Owner |
quote:
Originally posted by MDXS
quote:
The price difference is made up by the free maintenance and superior resale value. Check the leasing residuals and you'll see what I mean.
I did check the resale values. It took a while to find a site that listed both.
MDX
http://www.carsmart.com/cgi-bin/car...MDX&STYLE1=1322
ML320
http://www.carsmart.com/cgi-bin/car...320&STYLE1=2292
So the ML320 costs more and is worth less. Just another lie courtesy of ML320_Owner. Boy, the ML320 does sound better when you tell a bunch of lies. Stick with the facts and it wll lose everytime.
BTW, I chose the base model for both vehicles, and notice the maintenance costs are rated lower for the MDX.
You also did not check the lease residual values. Look it up. |
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| ML320_Owner |
quote:
Originally posted by GoFast_K
The more I read ML320_Owner's responses, the more I believe that this guy or gal's mental age is no more than a 3 years old. This guy is extremely stubborn and if not stupid. If you are happy with your vehical choice, stick with it and do not bother critisize other people's choice.
In my experience those who call other people stupid are usually the stupid, immature ones.
By the way, you misspelled two words in your message. I make spelling mistakes too. But it's funny to be calling someone stupid and then mess up the next sentence. |
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| ML320_Owner |
quote:
Originally posted by cr
Is the Audi TT Quattro really a VW Beetle? Is the RX300 really a Camry? Is the MDX really an Odyssey? Of course they aren't.
The overall unibody structure above the floor shares nothing w/the Odyssey, nor do the seats, the engine output, transmission, seats, sheetmetal, tires, brakes, nor the rest of the drivetrain. You are mis-speaking by saying that it is just a merely dressed up Odyssey. It is not. I don't think TT owners will say that what they are driving has much if anything to do w/a Beetle --no quattro system, different wheelbase, engine, layout, etc.
I belive that your posts are getting a bit extraordinary and are not adding any value.
The MDX shares the basic chassis, many interior components like the bizarre placement of climate controls. The engine is based on the Odyssey's engine with extra tuning added to it. It's assembled at the same plant.
To answer your question. The RX300 is a raised Camry station wagon. |
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You mean if you add options to make the new vehicle cost more that the used vehicle will sell for more? Big deal. The MDX still holds on to a larger percentage of it's value. Actually the more ML320 options you add the less it's worth as a percentage of its original cost.
Residual values are not freely listed on the web. However, I can only assume based on what I found that the MDX has a higher residual.
Show me a Website that lists the ML320 equipped like the MDX that holds on to higher percentage of it's value. I've showed you one where the MDX wins. You have to compare apples to apples.
ML320_Owner, you are entitled to your opinion. But you can't argue the world agrees with you. It doesn't. Put down the automobile review magazines if you like, but the we all know the truth. The MDX beats the ML320 consistantly. You should be glad, it only makes the Mercedes dealers discount the ML320's more. |
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Here is an example of what a very good magazine, Car and Driver, has to say about the two vehicles. Read their comparison.
http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Cara...esignerutes.xml
The MDX finished first and the ML320 finished behind the BMW, Lexus, and even the Mitsubishi Montero. Only the Discovery, a vehicle designed in the sixties, finsihed behind the ML320. 'nough said. |
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ML320_owner:
You neglected to mention anything about the Audi TT--Oh yeah, it's GERMAN. Since, obviously, you are evidently a GERMAN fanatic, you decided not to discuss the A4, TT, Beetle platform.
The RX300 is really not a jacked up Camry.
You also ommitted most of my discussion regarding the Odyssey platform vs. the MDX platform, e.g. reinforced unibody differences, drivetrain (sure the 3.5 engine is also in the RL, is that an Odyssey too?), and literally hundreds of other components that have nothing to do w/the Odyssey. Even the third row seats don't function nearly the same.
Is the E class the same as the ML? They share some components so it must be! Does it really matter that the two vehicles (MDX and Odyssey) are made in the same plant? That doesn't mean that they are the same vehicle. They actually have to completely retool when they do an MDX run, ye of very little brain. |
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| ML320_Owner |
Curious how everyone tries to defend their losing MDX by changing the subject and trying to request more and more information. I have provided much information here that you've not provided counter information.
Back to my original points:
You have cheap leather.
You have fake wood.
You have lesser safety features.
You have part time 4wd.
I've already addressed the value aspect and why the car magazine reviews are bogus. Yet you insist on trying the same thing from a different angle. I am remaining consistent here while you try to change the subject.
Call up your area's MB dealer and ask them what the 36 and 48 month residual factors are. Then do the same with your Acura dealerships. I have, and the MB numbers are better. Don't get too upset with your Acura dealer. It isn't his fault.
As the intelligent poster here would say . . .
'Nuff said. |
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I know I am a bit late in this motorsport ping pong match but a couple of things struck me as curious. First the esteemed ML320 is the second from the bottom in MB's line of vehicles while the MDX is 3rd from the top. Is it better to have a poor-man's Mercedes or a value-priced Acura? Second, the ML320 is made in Alabama while the MDX is made in Ontario, Canada. Who would you rather have make your SUV, someone who only sees snow during the Winter Olympics on TV and still may be fighting the Civil War or happy Canadians who understand the rigors of winter driving? Third how could 3 or 4 years of oil changes and maybe a couple of VTM fluid change outs overcome the purchase price differential? Any repairs are covered by either vehicles warranty. Finally, I heard it rumored that males sometimes buy cars to overcome their MED (male endowment deficiency not Bob Dole's problem). Does this mean that ML320 buyers suffer from MED?
I don't know the answers to these questions because I am just a dumb MDX buyer. :rolleyes: |
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ML320_Owner
I am very sorry that you overpaid for your ML320. I know it is killing you inside, why esle would you enter our forum and bash the MDX? Everyone in this forum is trying to steer you to the promised land! Dump the ML and purchase the MDX, I promise that it will ease your all your pains.l |
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| ML320_Owner |
quote:
Originally posted by remery
I know I am a bit late in this motorsport ping pong match but a couple of things struck me as curious. First the esteemed ML320 is the second from the bottom in MB's line of vehicles while the MDX is 3rd from the top. Is it better to have a poor-man's Mercedes or a value-priced Acura?
Answer: it's better to deal with a dealership that is experienced in working with premium vehicles than a dealership that deals in $800-under-invoice Integras. That's why you read so many complaints about Acura dealerships here. You sell low-end, you behave low-end.
quote:
Originally posted by remery
Second, the ML320 is made in Alabama while the MDX is made in Ontario, Canada. Who would you rather have make your SUV, someone who only sees snow during the Winter Olympics on TV and still may be fighting the Civil War or happy Canadians who understand the rigors of winter driving?
They don't DESIGN the vehicle in the south. The vehicle is designed in Germany, with experience from the autobahn and all the bad weather Europe gets.
What's with the insult on Southerners? Where does that come from? Okay I'll play that game for a second. Canadians are notoriously lazy people who do not have a high level of productivity and quality control. That's why their economy stinks. That's why the Odyssey suffers from poor quality. Consumer Reports just downgraded their reliability. Read it.
quote:
Originally posted by remery
Third how could 3 or 4 years of oil changes and maybe a couple of VTM fluid change outs overcome the purchase price differential? Any repairs are covered by either vehicles warranty. Finally, I heard it rumored that males sometimes buy cars to overcome their MED (male endowment deficiency not Bob Dole's problem). Does this mean that ML320 buyers suffer from MED?
Check your maintenance schedule. It's more than a 'couple of VTM fluid change outs' over 3-4 years if you drive under 'severe conditions'.
The free MB maintenance includes wiper inserts, wheel rotation, lubes, diagnostics, and so on. That will add up with your Acura services depending on where you live. Again especially if you drive under severe conditions like frequent stop and go traffic.
I'm fine in the endowment department. Ask my partner. You seem familiar with this condition. Sorry to hear that you're having problems.
quote:
Originally posted by remery
I don't know the answers to these questions because I am just a dumb MDX buyer. :rolleyes:
There is hope for you yet. The first step in recovery is to admit you have a problem. That problem is the MDX. Good boy. |
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| ML320_Owner |
quote:
Originally posted by MDXS
Here is an example of what a very good magazine, Car and Driver, has to say about the two vehicles. Read their comparison.
http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Cara...esignerutes.xml
The MDX finished first and the ML320 finished behind the BMW, Lexus, and even the Mitsubishi Montero. Only the Discovery, a vehicle designed in the sixties, finsihed behind the ML320. 'nough said.
I'll tell you how that review is BS. Did you see Car & Driver Television and the MDX on it? The vehicle had problems on a minor offroad condition. Even if you don't offroad I'd daresay you can hit this in bad snowy weather, gravel lots, etc. The MDX's bottom hit with a loud BANG.
Then in their slalom test the MDX's fishtailed like crazy. They acknowledged the rear end wagging.
Guess what? The ML320 has a near perfect front/rear weight distribution. It has ESP that prevents the tail from sliding out. Car & Driver Television showed the real story that they didn't put in the magazine.
As you are fond of saying:
'Nough said! |
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| I give up. You're right. The whole world's just crazy. |
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| Do you have an axe to grind or are you just so bored with your life so much that you can't find anything else to do with your time? These are just vehicles, life will go on with or without them. Take a pill and relax. |
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quote:
Originally posted by ML320_Owner
[QUOTE]. . .
They don't DESIGN the vehicle in the south. The vehicle is designed in Germany. . .
with consideration for the capabilities of its assemblers. ML320_Owner, you obviously have enough cash to buy any car you want (you mu | | | | |
