| MDXLNT |
As I was commuting on the 405 Fwy last week, I caught a glimpse of the new 2004 Lexus RX330 (white) with all of the emblems covered by tape. Here is an article which discusses what's in store. It's interesting to note that the RX330 will not come with the 3rd row seat, unlike the GX470.
http://www.imakenews.com/autospies/...le000112785.cfm |
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| Desant |
This looks very interesting. I would like to see the front of the car. From the back, it looks to me like current RX with some modernizations.
There was also a paragraph in "Automobile" mag this month about it with a similar photo. However, that mag said that RX is planning to have 240 HP is RX330. From other sources I have heard 255 HP number. |
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| BaldEagle |
It looks a lot shorter than the current version. Now instead of a puffed up Camry it looks like a slightly puffed up Camry.
Is it just me or does anyone else rarely see a male behind the wheel of the RX300? |
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| wmquan |
| I'm sure it'll be an excellent vehicle, but the styling just doesn't do it for me. |
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| mdxxxx |
quote:
Originally posted by wmquan
I'm sure it'll be an excellent vehicle, but the styling just doesn't do it for me.
Ditto...:4: |
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| jurincie |
quote:
Originally posted by BaldEagle
It looks a lot shorter than the current version. Now instead of a puffed up Camry it looks like a slightly puffed up Camry.
Is it just me or does anyone else rarely see a male behind the wheel of the RX300?
You don't see me behind the wheel of one any more :D
David |
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| xcel |
Hi All:
___I have to go with the chorus on this one. Even in the RX330 spy shot thread, the new Lexus appears to be sculpted to please a younger generation than myself … It appears as if both Lexus and Nissan with its Murano are competing for the same younger luxury cross-over ute category if there is such a category? I do have to question the amount of room behind the C-pillar given the pic. It appears as if Toyota shrunk the interior volume to please the stylists which was the wrong direction for those wanting for more length in an RX? Third row seats are an impossibility in this design for sure. I will have to let the wife take a look in the morning but she disliked the look of the Toyota Matrix and Pontiac Vibe when they first arrived so I am going to assume she will have the same opinion of the new RX. I suspect this RX will have the same Lexus quality, NVH refinement, excellent look and feel interior, and superior dealer support as usual for a Lexus but they missed the target I was hoping they would hit with this design :( Why couldn’t they have incorporated the exterior treatment on a larger (wider and longer) vehicle with real world sized third row seats?
___Does anyone miss the room of a mini-van … Anyone?
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net |
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| MDXLNT |
quote:
Originally posted by Desant
This looks very interesting. I would like to see the front of the car. From the back, it looks to me like current RX with some modernizations.
Desant,
When I first saw the "RX330" on the freeway, I wasn't sure what it was since all of the emblems (including the center caps on the wheels) were covered with tape. As soon as I passed and took a glimpse of the front, I knew it was the Lexus. The front looked exactly the same as the current RX300.
Regards. |
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| 24Blacker11 |
| Looks like the Pontiac Vibe aka Toyota Matrix... Maybe alittle bigger but smae shape. Imagine spending the $$ for a Lexus and having mistaken for a Pontiac :D |
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| Triple7 |
Not sure about that back either. My very first impression was that the back window reminded me "Pontiac styling" a bit - a la Aztek.
I am sure it will be a hot seller, but glad I've got my X. |
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| nm2 |
| nope. :8: definitely does not turn me on... |
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| xcel |
Hi All:
___I had the wife look at the RX330 shot and sure enough, the answer was “no way”! It looks like the Matrix! So I made yet another offer on an 03 TW X last night …
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net |
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| MDXLuvr |
is it just me or does it look smaller.:confused:
I think the back kinda looks like the porsche pepper.:D except for the fact the the porsche has uglier taillamps. |
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| DNLeeper |
quote:
Originally posted by BaldEagle
It looks a lot shorter than the current version. Now instead of a puffed up Camry it looks like a slightly puffed up Camry.
Is it just me or does anyone else rarely see a male behind the wheel of the RX300?
Sure, you can see me behind the wheel when I back my wife's RX out of the driveway to wash my MDX. |
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| MDXLuvr |
quote:
Originally posted by DNLeeper
Sure, you can see me behind the wheel when I back my wife's RX out of the driveway to wash my MDX.
:21: |
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| navybean |
| I saw the new RX at the LA auto show this evening. The front looks ok, but the back lloks like the Pontiac Aztek! Pretty ugly:28: |
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| oceanMDX |
| Actually, I think the RX330 looks just fine. "Looks" are rather subjective though. |
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| ootyboy |
I think the best part of this car will be the hybrid model that is going to be offered later this year. Takes the concept of the Prius, and implements it in a SUV. Great idea. If it works I am trading in the X for on one of these babies.
The rumor is 40MPG, and about 200 HP. The car is essentially an electric vehicle around town (zero emission) and the gas engine kicks in at higher speeds and during accelearation and also to charge the battery.
The only downside: $1,500 to $2,000 (price not yet clear) to replace the batteries at 100,000 miles!! Pretty steep service, but if it works it will be really worth it. |
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| xcel |
Hi Ootyboy:
___If it will get 40 mpg, that more than offsets the $1500 - $2000 in battery replacement costs. 20 mpg regularly so ½ the fuel cost over 100,000 miles. 5 gal per 100 traveled miles = 5000 gallons over 100,000 miles. At ~ $1.50/gallon = $7500.00. Rough estimates of course … Imagine how quiet the electric will be in around town driving as well!
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net |
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| amontgom |
Ootyboy -- I heard that the hybrid won't be available until 2005, the batteries will cost approximately $5000 to replace, and the mpg will only be about 30, not 40. While I, too, was in the market for this hybrid, these things don't make it as promising of a choice for me. I have decided not to wait for the hybrid, and either purchase the gasoline 330, GX470 or MDX. Still trying to decide....
Andi |
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| xsfo |
Where are you guys getting these battery replacement costs? Sounds like you're pulling 'em out of your ass. As long as we're doing that, keep in mind that Toyota offers a 8 year/100,000 mile warranty on the hybrid system of their Prius. I'm sure Toyota/Lexus will offer that on any RX hybrid.
Most people who buy new vehicles, on average (US drivers), own them for 4 to 5 years and drive them let's say 15,000 to 20,000. All together most new car owners will own for 4-5 years / 60,000 - 100,000 miles. I'd say that a 8 year/100,000 mile warranty would cover the hybrid system adequately. |
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| xcel |
Hi Xsfo:
___I don’t know where the Battery replacement cost comes from since I didn’t post it but Batteries are usually not covered under warranty for normal wear and tear on a non-Hybrid. Sure if they went out in the first 24 - 36 months or 24,000 – 36,000 miles but at 100K? You will be purchasing them on your own for the Hybrid’s, I can almost guarantee. An example of normal wear and tear. The last time I installed new tires on the Previa, Nissan, and Accord after ~ 60K of use, they weren’t covered under warranty … The 03 Toyota Corolla’s one Integrity was covered at 6K given a broken belt or some such non-sense.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net |
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| ootyboy |
| The battery costs were based on info from CNN.com at the Detroit Auto Show. Anyway, if you look at the Civic Hybrid, they will tell you that the batteries need to be changed (warranty does not cover it) at 100,000. The cost is roughly $1500 today, however, prices could drop in a few years. These are Nickel Metal Hydrade batteries, that cannot be recharged after so many charges. Their life span is actually quite short. |
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| xsfo |
Regardless of the hybrid battery costs, I think you guys are missing my point entirely.
Most people will not have to deal with changing the battery at 100,000 mile because most owners don't keep cars that long. Any battery failure before then would usually be covered under a hybrid specific warranty.
You cannot compare the Honda Civic Hybrid to the hybrid RX. First of all, Honda won't be building the hybrid RX. The Civic hybrid batteries may be Nickel Metal Hydride but that doesn't necessarily mean the hybrid RX will use the same type of batteries. In fact, the type of batteries the hybrid RX will use hasn't been decided yet. Lithium Ion batteries might be used, who knows?
Obviously Toyota/Lexus is going to be building the hybrid RX and providing the warranty. The best way to gauge what that warranty might be like is to take a look at Toyota's hybrid Prius. The Prius has, in addition to the basic 3 year/36,000 mile warranty, a Hybrid-Related Component Coverage. This Hybrid-Related Component Coverage covers (quoted from Toyota):
Prius' hybrid-related components, including the HV battery, battery control module, hybrid control module and inverter with converter, are covered for 8 years/100,000 miles.
Toyota/Lexus will no doubt provide the same or similar warranty for the hybrid RX. So for most hybrid RX owners, battery replacement won't be an issue. Early battery failure will be covered by the Hybrid-Related Component Coverage. BTW xcel, this hybrid battery is different from the lead-acid battery in regular internal combustion engines.
FYI Honda does provide a warranty on the Civic Hybrid battery pack (quoted from Honda)
...its battery pack comes with an 8-year/80,000-mile limited warranty. |
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| xcel |
Hi Xsfo:
___You are missing my point. It doesn’t matter of it’s a battery (no kidding the batteries are not simple lead-acid) or tires. If there is a failure, than the warranty is what it is. A warn out setup in a hybrid will probably not fail at 100K but its charge holding capabilities will probably be diminished by some degree. Now find the warranty on the battery charge being diminishing and you get a gold star of the day … If you think the owner will sell there vehicle at 90K, don’t you think the next buyer knows there will be a $1500 - $2000 charge for battery replacement at ~ 100K? What if the next used vehicle you were to consider needed a new engine at 100K. Would you buy it at a price that reflected the engine replacement or not? KBB, Edmunds, and the Black Book will all reflect this in their depreciation calc’s and so will you whether you are the buyer or the seller.
___As far as the savings, if the battery enhanced mpg is a significant improvement over a std. internal combustion setup, the savings in fuel will more than offset the price increase for the battery HW and operation given similar mpg and mileage numbers listed above. On the other side of the coin, whether the mpg estimates are real or not, the Prius received a terrible review from a Michigan based car mag when it was first released. The cold weather killed its mileage (something to do with the AC based defroster running all the time if I remember correctly?) and its ability to get unstuck in the snow was hampered by the computer controlled tranny not letting it shift from F to R fast enough to be effective using the age old rocking technique. In other words, it received less mpg, was significantly smaller, underperformed by a rather large margin, and had a disadvantage in everyday driving function compared to a std. Toyota Corolla all the while costing a significant amount more money. If this is the case with a new RX based Hybrid, it is dead on arrival before ever reaching our driveways. I am sure Toyota knows this and will not make the same mistake again. At least I hope they have?
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net |
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| navybean |
quote:
Originally posted by MDXLuvr
is it just me or does it look smaller.:confused:
I think the back kinda looks like the porsche pepper.:D except for the fact the the porsche has uglier taillamps.
No Way it looks any where close to the Porsche:confused: |
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| xsfo |
xcel,
First, it's a little confusing. Tell me what you think we're discussing here. Is it hybrid cars are bad or hybrid cars more expensive? My original point was that the battery situation is not as bad as some have posted here. There were a couple previous posts on batteries and warranties that seemed to be misinformed.
You said earlier:
Batteries are usually not covered under warranty for normal wear and tear on a non-Hybrid. Sure if they went out in the first 24 - 36 months or 24,000 – 36,000 miles but at 100K?
You made it sound as if hybrid batteries were not covered beyond the basic warranty and that is not the case. So the answer to your question is: up to 100k miles or 8 years they would be covered. Assuming a warranty similar to the Toyota Prius. Of course a used hybrid owner would be in a different situation but that's not what we're talking about here.
Before it sounded like your main sticking point was with battery replacement. We've established that battery failure, at least for the original owner, is pretty well taken care of with a warranty. Now you're saying that diminishing battery charge is a problem.
You make it sound like a hybrid vehicle will not be able to work at all with diminished batteries -- as if it's a regular electric vehicle -- and that's not the case. They will work. The batteries are not the sole power source for locomotion. The batteries are used mainly to start the engine, idle, move the vehicle at low speeds, assist in acceleration and store recovered braking energy. Whenever the vehicle is exceeds 15 mph (or whatever the speed will be) the gasoline engine will start and run. The vehicle is electric only at those low speeds.
The point here is if the batteries can't start, idle, accelerate etc.; then for all practical purposes they have failed and should be replaced under warranty. It's a either a go or no-go situation. Either the batteries work or they don't. As a driver you won't notice diminished batteries in any of those situations unless the battery is just plain dead.
Think of your normal car battery. Usually you don't give it a second thought. It just works. Obviously the lead-acid battery's capacity lessens over time but you as a driver don't notice it. Not until the day you can't start your car. The hybrid batteries will be pretty much the same except they'll have a warranty.
I understand you read a negative review of the Prius, but you should really look into what real Prius owners have to say about their Prius (messageboards etc). Yeah some of 'em are real Prius fanatics, but taken with a grain of salt it isn't as bad as the review you read makes it out to be.
Check out this guy at http://john1701a.com
He's a real nut about the Prius, but he lives in Minnesota, which gets just as cold if not colder than Michigan, and has not had a bad experience at all. He's going on maybe 2 years of ownership, not just a week's test drive. Yes the cold does affect gas mileage, but that review you mentioned made it sound as if Prius gets like 15 mpg in the winter and that's definitely not the case. The Prius gets more like 30 mpg in the winter. That's not that bad considering. |
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| xcel |
Hi Xsfo:
___I posted both Pro’s and cons of the Hybrids that I know of given what I have read. The review that I mentioned (I did not see you post this?) in regards to the Prius showed ~ 30 mpg overall in the Winter review which is worse than I have ever received with the 03 Corolla. You mentioned 15 mpg, not me. If you think that kind of mileage is a good thing in a smaller, less comfortable, less safe, less luxurious, and more expensive vehicle, than we disagree on who will be buying Hybrid’s.
___I never said anything about dead batteries? Usability from a diminished battery probably means less mileage from a charge, leading to possibly less mpg overall, not a dead battery and a dead automobile. All of my current car batteries have lasted past the 100K mark in my own use but they are diminished and will need to be replaced at some point at my own expense. I believe this will be the same for a Hybrid owner as well. Again, I believe the batteries in an RX hybrid are not going to be covered for normal wear and tear (diminishing charge) yet you mention they will replace them at the normal replacement date for free. If you followed my line of thinking with your own battery or tires, you may or may not come to the same conclusions? We will agree to disagree until such time as one of the SUV Hybrid’s is released and the warranty states a free battery change out at the appropriate date.
___As for TCO, if the RX Hybrid can avg 40 + mpg, than even a $1.5K – your $5K battery replacement is Ok given the amount of fuel savings over 100K miles. Even at 30 mpg, it is still in the ball game but it is getting close to parity. It’s the drivability and overall feel of a Hybrid SUV that is going to drive it to a sales success since green or not, a ULEV-II based std. combustion engine getting 20 + mpg overall and costing several thousand dollars less than a Hybrid is going to be the target to beat. I can only hope Toyota has improved their battery tech and implementation as I mentioned above. The Prius (Michigan based) review I read makes a large Hybrid a dead deal if they haven’t.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net |
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| ootyboy |
I am with Xcel on this. There is no point debating the replacement cost of batteries on a vehicle when it is defined in black and white. Based on conversation with my contact at a Toyota dealership, the Prius batteries are treated similar to tires and gas engine batteries. While they are under warranty for failure, normal wear and tear is not covered.
Say the batteries go out at 80,000 miles, then Toyota will pro-rate the cost of batteries, similar to the way they are doing it today with regular car batteries. Now, I agree the car will continue to run without any problems, but you are not going to get very good gas mileage.
Frankly, I can't imagine car manufacturer's using LiOn batteries on cars. First of all, they are highly volatile to heat and other environmental factors, and I for one would hate to be in a car that is rear ended with a bunch of LiOn batteries in the trunk.
The have tried to solve this issue by using LiOn Polymer batteries, but the cost has been too great to make economical sense.
Fuel cell are the other alternative, but based on last month's Motor Trend, both Honda and Toyota are coming out with Fuel Cell cars. Believe it or not the magazine states that it costs the manufacturer over $1,000,000 to build each of these cars, due to the high content of Platinum in the fuel cells.
Now I am sure they will lease/sell the cars at a more reasonable cost, but even so how many gas stations can you go to that sell Hydrogen.
Bottom line alternative technologies are a long ways from materializing. However, for those of us on the cutting edge it might make us feel better to drive one of these babies around, to justify driving our Excursions on those weekend trips with the kids :-) |
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| neide |
| A million dollars to build a fuel cell car? I don't think so. I can get any existing car converted here for about 8K. |
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| xcel |
Hi Neide:
___To a Hydrogen based Fuel Cell w/ the electric motors? I thought I had read of Chrysler’s Fuel cell engine costing at least 20K and that was only a few months ago in Popular Science or Popular Mechanics? After looking up Chrysler’s efforts on their own web site, there still is a long way to go on this unfortunately :(
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net |
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| xsfo |
xcel,
OK, we disagree on whether the batteries will be replaced.
Do you have any examples of diminished batteries affecting everyday mileage? Winter driving doesn't count. The answer is probably no because they haven't been used long enough to show that. Until that information is available, you can't assume diminished batteries will grossly affect mileage. Certainly not enough for most drivers to notice. That John guy at http://john1701a.com hasn't had any complaints about mileage and he himself is coming up to 100,000 miles.
Regardless of the batteries, I don't think MOST original owners will own the hybrid out to 100,000 miles. Reasons being, some cars on lease, some owners have to get the latest and greatest car etc. Also currently most car owners, in general, own their car for about 4 years. Even driving 20,000 miles a year (which is above average) that puts mileage within the warranty limits.
Ignoring the warranties, don't confuse your car usage with the norm. You may keep a car longer, but for most other owners the long-term battery replacement or even the diminished battery issue is not a serious factor.
Speaking of the average owner. What type of buyer do you think buys a hybrid? Because of the added cost, it's not a buyer that's solely concerned about saving money that's for sure. They are a group that covet new technology (early adopters) and at the same time want to "help the environment." Consequently for them, cost will not be the deciding factor on a hybrid purchase. It's probably why the next hybrids will be luxury vehicles. So that added cost won't be such a huge factor (compared to an economy car). |
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| xcel |
Hi Xsfo:
___Do you think these batteries will not diminish? If they won’t, than there is no need to ever replace them I would think? I just have never heard of batteries that can run without losing cold-cranking amps 8 + years but maybe the latest and greatest has raised the bar significantly. The review I read placed the mileage below that of a Corolla in cold weather and they had it for a serious review. I just wish I could remember what mag it was so everyone else would have a chance to read it as well. I will guess Car and Driver from ~ 2 years ago but I am simply not sure. It was one of the few reviews in which they flatly declared hands down that this is not a vehicle for someone in my locale let alone the upper east coast, Ohio, MI, IL, some of IN, WI, MN, the Dakota’s, some of KS, OR, CO, UT, OR, WA, and probably another 10 states I missed in the list … Where I live, cold weather is a fact of life for 4 – 5 months out of the year. I can’t vouch for the MN. individual because as you mentioned, a Hybrid owner is not your std. breed of car buyer. What he receives on trade in has just as much to do with the TCO as the purchase price. You may not consider it now but unless you throw your car away at 100K, you will when it comes to trade in time. Someone will own that vehicle at 100K miles or it simply isn’t worth owning IMHO …
___As for early adopters, good for them. I have seen that GM Electric from many years ago on the road, the Civic Hybrid, and the Prius in the showrooms. You know what? None of those vehicles stand a chance in hell of saving you in an accident (well the Civic Hybrid maybe) let alone could they prove useful for anything other than strict commuting in my eyes. Even that is a stretch given car pooling today. I run a 200 miler round trip myself with two other car poolers ~ ½ the time and these cars are simply to small for 3 people on a 3 – 6 hour non-stop commute. I am glad there are those out there that a Hybrid works for but if TCO is not on their mind, I would say they are more of an outlier as to the type of automobile purchaser they are than I will ever be. Those Outliers rarely make up enough sales percentage to even consider although in the case of a Hybrid SUV, I could only hope for a true 40 + mpg, ULEV-II or less type vehicle with ~ the same power and for ~ the same price as what we have today. I have also read that Toyota claims the Prius is actually profitable.
___Finally, I will be one of those on the side lines waiting to see how these Hybrid’s run over the longer term instead of one of the first to jump on a Hybrid just for the sake of saying I own one. It truly does come down to my pocket book although I am perfectly happy to accept those that could care less what it costs for the sake of the environment.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net |
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| xsfo |
xcel,
To answer your question,
Do you think these batteries will not diminish?
I do think battery capacity lessens over use and time. There is no disagreement here. However, with regards to hybrid batteries, this will not concern the average original hybrid owner because: 1) Original owners don't usually keep their vehicles long enough. Most problems will be covered under warranty. 2) The effects of diminished batteries are not noticeable to the average driver.
You agreed with me that
a Hybrid owner is not your std. breed of car buyer.
Yet you're continually judging a hybrid in terms of a non-hybrid buyer (you personally actually). I think we've established that a hybrid buyer will not be concerned about the same things you or I might in a car. Obviously to them the fact the vehicle is a hybrid ranks #1 overall. Yes resale value might suck, but it's a hybrid. So why judge the hybrid as if it's something else?
Your latest declaration was:
I have seen that GM Electric from many years ago on the road, the Civic Hybrid, and the Prius in the showrooms. You know what? None of those vehicles stand a chance in hell of saving you in an accident...
This is a new point. I think you're trying to change to subject.
You've introduced the safety issue now. The Prius and the Civic Hybrid should do no worse safety-wise than any other car in the compact car class. That's because they are essentially compact cars with a different powerplant. So if you're condemning the Prius and the Civic Hybrid you might as well condemn all compact cars. I think you're hung up on the GM Electric Vehicle which was ALL electric. And because it was all electric, GM had to lighten the body structure probably lessening its crash worthiness. The Prius and the Civic Hybrid are not a GM EVs. Not to mention that the RX hybrid will be a luxury SUV with all associated safety features and not a stripped down economy car.
Not convinced? Look at the NHTSA crash test ratings. The Prius is average or better.
http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/sa...icle.html#Prius
Toyota Prius (2001/2002)
NHTSA Frontal Crash Driver = Average
NHTSA Frontal Crash Passenger = Good
NHTSA Side Crash Front Occupant = Average
NHTSA Side Crash Rear Occupant = Average
NHTSA Rollover Resistance = Good
About that review you read, was this it?
http://www.auto.com/reviews/ulrich20_20020620.htm
Its negative tone certainly sounds like the review you were talking about. Note that the review is about the Honda Civic Hybrid and not the Toyota Prius (which is what I've been using for comparison).
BTW the guy I was referring to at http://john1701a.com has kept a log over 2 years and his mileage has averaged around 40 mpg. That includes driving through 2 Minnesota winters! And Minnesota is definitely colder than Michigan not mention Illinois (where you live).
Yahoo Minnesota Climate http://travel.yahoo.com/p/travelguide/519164
...In winter, the temperature ranges from -9 to 24 F...
An average of about 8 F
Yahoo Michigan Climate http://travel.yahoo.com/p/travelguide/519163
...the average January temperature ranges 6 to 32 F...
An average of about 19 F
Yahoo Illinois Climate http://travel.yahoo.com/p/travelguide/519154
Northern Illinois averages 25 F/-4 C in January...Southern Illinois averages 36 F/2 C in January... |
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| xcel |
Hi Xsfo:
___I continually judge a hybrid for what it offers most including myself, yes indeed. I am offering what I have read and I would hope those that have experienced one to offer theirs. I don’t pretend to know everything there is to know about them nor am I pretending to purchase one in the near future. What I am trying to provide is information that I have read or can deduce from what has been offered. Just because a minority of purchasers likes the Hybrid does not mean the majority will unless there is a true advantage to owning one.
___As for the safety, no I am not changing the subject. If you drive a Hybrid like a Prius, you are more than likely to be injured or die in a crash than you are in a Corolla. The Civic Hybrid does appear to stand on its own in this case however. I use the Corolla because it is the vehicle I chose as one of the best Compacts available. The Prius is not in the same class safety wise from a size stand point directly …
___The Prius was the car tested in the C&D or R&T article from a year or so ago and it was not a car most would want to own for all the reasons listed previously. 40 mpg from the MN owner is not that great for an expensive car offering far less utility than a bread and butter 03 Corolla which receives ~ 35 MPG overall from its ULEV engine. I don’t know if the Prius engine is a ULEV in the winter environment or not (Toyota shows it as a SULEV) but if it isn’t, the Prius is probably spitting out more emissions than the Corolla and with all the negatives, is it worth it? Even for an environmentalist?
___As for the temps, I live on the WI border and Lake Michigan so you can include me in with those folks ;)
___And once again in defense of the Hybrid’s, I truly hope for a 40+ mpg Hybrid SUV with similar performance offered in today’s current lineup. I don’t need 0-60 times in the high 7’s low 8’s but I most certainly would not accept a Hybrid with mid 13’s either. If 40 mpg and maybe 200 horses is achievable, the TCO should be small enough for many to consider the Hybrid as the SUV of choice. If its 20 mpg w/ 150 HP, it isn’t worth owning for most given the costs IMHO.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net |
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| ndahbar |
| Can I add something here? Heh. If I Prius ever crashed into an MDX (or anything as big), err...there would be an ugly picture, and I'm not talking MDX! Crash scores my a$$. It would be pulverized. :1: |
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| xsfo |
xcel,
About safety, you said:
The Prius is not in the same class safety wise from a size stand point
The fact is that the Prius safety-wise is in the same class as the Corolla. The Prius has very similar NHTSA ratings to the Corolla for the same model years. In any case it certainly isn't the death trap you made it out to be: None of those vehicles stand a chance in hell of saving you in an accident
http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/sa...le.html#Corolla
Toyota Corolla (2001/2002)
NHTSA Frontal Crash Driver = Good
NHTSA Frontal Crash Passenger = Good
NHTSA Side Crash Front Occupant = Average (w/o side airbag); Good (w/side airbag)
NHTSA Side Crash Rear Occupant = Average
NHTSA Rollover Resistance = Good
http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/sa...icle.html#Prius
Toyota Prius (2001/2002)
NHTSA Frontal Crash Driver = Average
NHTSA Frontal Crash Passenger = Good
NHTSA Side Crash Front Occupant = Average
NHTSA Side Crash Rear Occupant = Average
NHTSA Rollover Resistance = Good
Anyway it doesn't matter because originally this thread was about the new RX and future hybrid RX. Safety won't be an issue with the RX.
Hybrid technology is without a doubt a new and emerging technology. It's obvious that their use is not quite mainstream. Because of that, it's disappointing that you would dismiss it so quickly. |
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| ootyboy |
Fuel cell RX330
Here is short article from Motor Trend on the RX330. I guess I was wrong in the milage, it is only 26 to 35. Check it out
http://www.motortrend.com/features/news/112_news39/
Neide -- I am not sure where you got your $8,000 figure for a fuel cell car, but if they are selling I am buying. My guess is you are talking either about electrical or propane conversions. Here is the link to the $1,000,000 fuel cell car built by Honda and Toyota. Again, it is the Platinum that costs so much! If you get it for $8,000 I am in, as I am sure both Honda and Toyota will contact you for supplies!
http://www.businessweek.com/magazin...51/b3813084.htm |
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| Fireblade6 |
| Thew new RX330 reminds me of the Camry JACKED UP on four wheels...:19: :21: :22: |
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| tigmd99 |
| Well, MDX is Honda minivan jacked on all fours....:D |
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| vicpai |
quote:
Originally posted by Fireblade6
Thew new RX330 reminds me of the Camry JACKED UP on four wheels...:19: :21: :22:
........call it a jacked up Camry or whatever, but at least when equipped with the optional AIR SUSPENSION the RX 330 is more off-road capable than the MDX: 8.3 real (not fudged) inches of ground clearance, as well as good approach and departure angles.
However, without the Air Suspension, the MDX wins (by default that is) :rolleyes: |
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| amontgom |
One of the reasons why my husband is seriously considering purchasing a hybrid is the HOV advantage. In Northern VA, owners of hybrid vehicles can ride in the HOV-2 and HOV-3 lanes without other passengers. This can shorten a commute by as much as 20-30 minutes. Also, don't forget the $2000 tax deduction the first year of ownership.
Just my two cents....
Andi |
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| jofam |
| I was told that there will be an RX 330 at Putnam Lexus (Peninsula, Bay Area CA) on March 6, 03 for preview if anybody in the vicinity is interested. |
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| Rick414 |
Don't make me sick. The RX330 Hybrid is designed as more of an enviro-friendly turbo than a high-mileage performer. Toyota states that the hybrid RX330 will perform like a V-8 at the same MPG as a V-6. Period. They don't claim to be like, uh, a Ford Escape Hybrid.
The real arguement here is; can the Ford Escape Hybrid deliver 40 MPG city for 100,000 miles. The RX330 Hybrid will, maybe, deliver 23 MPG city. My money is on the Ford.
If the MDX was not such a seductress, I would have waited for the Escape. |
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