| oceanMDX |
quote:
“While Toyota has surpassed Chevy in sales numbers, it has fallen behind the GM brand in a key quality ranking. In the most recent J.D. Power initial quality survey of new cars, Chevy came in No. 2 behind Honda. Toyota fell to No. 3. The survey measures problems in the first 90 days of ownership.”
I'm surprised that GM surpassed Toyota, and what happened to Lexus? :confused:
Here's the link:
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos...12-toyota_x.htm
Here's the article:
Toyota outselling Chevy, closing on Ford
By Earle Eldridge, USA TODAY
Cars made by Toyota are outselling those made by Chevrolet this year and are poised to overtake Ford cars in the first quarter next year. It would be the first time a foreign automaker could lay claim to the title best-selling car brand in the USA. Either Ford or Chevrolet has been the best-selling car brand since 1903. U.S. automakers still dominate the truck market.
"Within a matter of months, Toyota will consistently be selling more cars in this country than any other brand," predicts Tom Libby, analyst with J.D. Power, basing that on the brands' sales histories since 1990. Through November, Toyota had sold 774, 953 cars to Ford's 801,607 and Chevy's 682,658. As sales numbers tighten, consumers might see more deals on cars, especially because Ford and Toyota are two of the most aggressive retailers. Toyota's threat to the Detroit brands illustrates the continued assault on the U.S. auto market by foreign brands. Unless the trend reverses, it could require General Motors, Ford Motor and Chrysler Group to shut plants and lay off employees. Some analysts predict that foreign brands will hold 50% of the U.S. auto market within five years. For this year, they had a 38.5% share through November, according to sales tracker Autodata.
"Toyota and Honda have been particularly successful in increasing their market share," says Scott Sprizen, an analyst with Standard and Poor's. Both also have been investing in trucks, particularly sport-utility vehicles, he notes. That takes aim at Detroit's strength. Honda car sales are closing in on Chevy's, too. They were less than 11,000 apart through November.
Ford and Chevy couldn't be reached for comment on the sales numbers. Toyota spokesman Joe Tetherow attributed his brand's success to "core products, not niche products, that appeal to a lot of customers." While Toyota has surpassed Chevy in sales numbers, it has fallen behind the GM brand in a key quality ranking.
In the most recent J.D. Power initial quality survey of new cars, Chevy came in No. 2 behind Honda. Toyota fell to No. 3. The survey measures problems in the first 90 days of ownership.
Tetherow blamed minor trim problems with the redesigned Camry.
Ford still maintains its dominance as the best-selling brand overall, a spot it has held for 16 years. That's largely due to sales of the F-Series pickup, the No. 1-selling vehicle of any type in the country, and the Explorer, the best-selling SUV.
The Ford brand will likely sell 3 million cars and trucks in the USA this year, Toyota 1.5 million. |
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| wmquan |
| As mentioned, the key is the Initial Quality Survey focusing on the first 90 days. Give the Chevy's a couple of years of ownership, and I bet they come out behind in quality than the Toyota's! |
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| dbehrens |
Honda is only 11k cars behind Chevy for #2. Just goes to show you what a quality design and bullet proof reliability will do for sales.
I look forward to seeing Honda to catch up to Chevy in truck sales sometime in the future. The MDX, Pilot and CRV are a great start.:4: |
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| doggiedog |
quote:
Originally posted by wmquan
As mentioned, the key is the Initial Quality Survey focusing on the first 90 days. Give the Chevy's a couple of years of ownership, and I bet they come out behind in quality than the Toyota's!
Somehow I don't think Chevy car buyers would be as discerning as Toyota car buyers.
The survey is also very deceptive. A knob that creaks on a Toyota would be given the same relevance as a busted transmission on a Chevy. |
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| oceanMDX |
Problems Reported at Four to Five Years of Ownership
Drops 7 Percent for the Industry
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: November 21, 2002
WESTLAKE VILLAGE, Calif.—Lexus ranks highest in long-term dependability for the eighth consecutive year, according to the J.D. Power and Associates 2002 Vehicle Dependability Index (VDI) StudySM released today. All of the top five ranking nameplates in the study are Japanese brands, with Infiniti, Acura, Honda and Toyota following Lexus, respectively.
The study finds that at 159 problems per 100 vehicles (PP100), the average four- to five-year-old Lexus has fewer problems than the average 1998 model-year vehicle did when it was new (176 PP100). Lexus owners report the smallest increase in problems of any nameplate, as measured at 90 days of ownership to the four- to five-year mark. "Lexus vehicles certainly benefit from their consistency in long-term dependability," said Brian Walters, director of product research at J.D. Power and Associates. "VDI measures vehicle problems at a critical stage, when many owners are considering replacing their vehicles. The perception of strong long-term dependability can translate into both high resale value and strong owner loyalty to the nameplate. More than one-half of new-vehicle buyers indicate that long-term durability is an important consideration when choosing which make of vehicle to purchase."
Among the 15 nameplates scoring above industry average in the 2002 VDI, eight are Japanese brands (Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, Honda, Toyota, Subaru, Nissan and Mazda); four are domestic (Buick, Cadillac, Lincoln and Mercury); and three are European (Porsche, Jaguar and BMW).
The industry has improved vehicle dependability by 27 PP100 in 2002—a 7 percent increase over 2001. Interestingly, industry-level new-vehicle quality, as measured by the J.D. Power and Associates Initial Quality Study (IQS),SM has also shown an annual average improvement of just under 7 percent over the past four years.
"Six of the top 10 problems in VDI are also among the problem symptoms that have experienced the greatest deterioration between IQS and VDI, suggesting that many of the vehicle quality issues that arise early in the ownership period not only persist, but worsen with time and mileage," said Walters. "For most problems measured in IQS and VDI, the opportunity for product improvement occurs in the design and engineering phases of future model replacements."
The Vehicle Dependability Index Study, now in its 13th year, is based this year on survey responses from more than 30,000 original owners of 1998 model-year vehicles. The study monitors the number and type of problems owners have with their four- to five-year-old vehicles and covers 137 specific problem areas in nine categories. |
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| Desant |
Here is a WAG forecast:
Toyota and Honda will take over US auto market by 2007. Once GM and Ford realize that they are becoming secondary players with a risk of becoming a niche player, they will oust most of their "talent" and start making quality and advanced cars. I think if GM and Ford get the wake up call this time, they will get back the leadership in 2012.
Like I said, just a Wild *** Guess! :) |
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| oceanMDX |
| This regards long-term dependability: |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by Desant
Here is a WAG forecast:
Toyota and Honda will take over US auto market by 2007. Once GM and Ford realize that they are becoming secondary players with a risk of becoming a niche player, they will oust most of their "talent" and start making quality and advanced cars. I think if GM and Ford get the wake up call this time, they will get back the leadership in 2012.
Like I said, just a Wild *** Guess! :)
Maybe, but selling inferior quality has worked for them for so long! Not to say they had not made some improvements along the way.
Time will tell, maybe the consumers are finally becoming more educated. That's what it will take. |
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| Casique |
American car manufacturers don't get it, QUALITY SELLS!
I mean lasting quality. I think most of us that own Honda/Acura's have tried American brands only to be disgusted with quality, workmanship, and service! |
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| oceanMDX |
My first new vehicle was a '79 Mustang. A few months after I bought it, the alternator bracket snapped off from the engine so that the alternator was only hanging by wires. I had it towed to the nearest Ford dealership for repair. The manager suggested that the bolts broke because I was abusing the car. :3: :8:
He was just angry that I hadn't bought the car from his dealership. The fact that I lived 1,800 miles away when I bought the car didn't matter to him - huh, duh? :confused:
Since then, I've gone import - and never looked back. |
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| wmquan |
The histogram above demonstrates how initial quality doesn't necessarily mean long-term quality. While the IQS only goes over 90 days, the Vehicle Dependability Index is based on 4-5 years. I'll bet if you go back to the IQS 4/5 years ago, it doesn't have anywhere near the same manufacturer order.
But yes, vehicle demographics also influence the surveys as well. Note that in the VDI, the domestic brands that do well are the brands that sell to decidedly older audiences -- e.g. Cadillac, Buick, and Lincoln. Meanwhile, the brands that often produce the same vehicles under different model names, but sell to a younger audience, are below average.
Vehicles owned by some older buyers (many senior citizens with Cadillacs and Buicks) tend to have issues forgiven (they're accustomed to having a lower level of quality after owning poor-quality vehicles for decades, so a more modern vehicle, even if below-average, is a big improvement). Those owners also don't push their vehicles very hard, have low mileage, and get them maintained more regularly. That will influence the survey as well.
Some folks have suggested that the Japanese brands do well because everyone expects them to be good, and ranks them high in surveys even if they have problems.
I say it either all balances out, or even causes the opposite effect -- the reliable brands don't do as well because their owners expect perfection, and slam the vehicle if they don't get it. Whereas the, say, MB or BMW owner is used to having their past MB or BMW in frequently for service, so having a few problem visits doesn't phase them, and they get nice treatment from the dealer, and they check off "average" or "above average" quality in the survey. |
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| BaldEagle |
quote:
Originally posted by dbehrens
I look forward to seeing Honda to catch up to Chevy in truck sales sometime in the future. The MDX, Pilot and CRV are a great start.:4:
These are not trucks.:8: Especially the MDX.
They are not based on trucks, they don't look like trucks, and you can not haul dirt or mulch with them like I do in my other vehicle, a real truck.:19: |
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| ndahbar |
| LOL, Mercedes isn't even on your Histogram. :rolleyes: |
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| MDXLuvr |
Benz is not on on the list(probably b/c of the ML), and BMW is below Jaguar.:confused:
Then again, BMW is above Subaru/Nissan so i guess it isn't that bad. |
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| vcolangelo |
What's the Long Term Dependability Chart Saying?
Is the JD Power Long Term Dependability chart saying that owners of Lexus cars report 159 problems for every 100 cars sold, and that we report 228 problems for every 100 cars sold?
That's kind of disappointing. I would have thought that the quality manufacturers could get reported problems well below 100.
vcolangelo |
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| oceanMDX |
quote:
Is the JD Power Long Term Dependability chart saying that owners of Lexus cars report 159 problems for every 100 cars sold, and that we report 228 problems for every 100 cars sold?
That's kind of disappointing. I would have thought that the quality manufacturers could get reported problems well below 100.
vcolangelo
One of the major issues in achieving that end is cars have so many new features today. How many of us imagined 10 years ago that our vehicles would have nav units we could talk to and be understood? |
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| wmquan |
quote:
Originally posted by MDXLuvr
Benz is not on on the list(probably b/c of the ML),
Yep!
http://www.globalautonet.com/pages/news.html
"The J.D. Power and Associates Vehicle Dependability Index study has crowned Lexus the most reliable brand for the eighth year in a row, but the Mercedes-Benz brand took a hit, dropping 23 percent in long-term reliability, and Audi saw its score drop nineteen percent. The study asked 30,000 owners of 1998 models about problems they have encountered and tabulated the results as a score of problems per 100 vehicles. Lexus had a score of 159 problems per 100 vehicles, while the industry average was 344 problems. Mercedes-Benz's score of 364 problems per 100 vehicles was a blow to a brand that had been in tenth place last year, with 296 problems. The automaker's score was down mainly because of a difficult launch of the M-Class, new in 1998, according to J.D. Power and Associates."
The score should pick up in future years because the M-class has improved somewhat (it couldn't get any worse), though it won't be up a lot. The C-class that debuted in 2001 may knock the score down two years from now, though. |
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| Dale MDX |
Some reasons why GM and Ford still sell as many cars as they do:
- Lots of people will only buy "American" brands, and will continue to do so no matter what the quality difference. (Never mind that the Japanese car may be made in the USA and the American one in Canada or Mexico). I know people that buy the same American brand over and over again, even though they have reliability and durability problems, because that's really all they know and they are comfortable in that "rut."
- There are still lots of people that associate foreign products with junk quality. Never mind quality surveys and proof otherwise. People sometimes dismiss these surveys as biased. "Japanese cars break too easily and won't last to 100,000 miles. I'm buy a Taurus again" is something I've heard at work.
- Fleet sales and high depreciation. When you can buy a 2002 Oldsmobile Alero (not that bad of a car), for 10,500 as a "program car", as advertised in my local paper today, it's hard to ignore the price difference between that and a similar Camry or Accord. Lots of people that are buying American are buying used.
- Lots of people don't have any understanding of or interest in performance issues (handling, acceleration) or safety issues or fit and finish and won't give an edge to an Accord over a Taurus in their buying decision. Of course, sometimes the American brand can have an edge in these areas also. |
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| DaleB |
| At least we know there's a car for everyone in the good ol' USA! |
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