| renov8r |
I am impressed!
Looks to completely DEFINE my idea of a crossover:
* Car-like driving 3.5-liter SOHC 24-valve V-6 engine; On-demand all-wheel-drive or front-wheel-drive with traction control; Four speed automatic transaxle with AutoStick® ; Independent front/rear suspension.
* Comfort: First-class seating in first and second rows; First and second row buckets with seat mounted armrests, fore-aft adjustment and recline; Second row fold flat capability; Four heated seats; Continuous first and second row center console; 10-way power driver’s seat; 4-way power passenger’s seat; Two driver memory system for radio, driver seat position, mirror position and pedal position.
* Innovation: Infinity Intermezzo theater-style surround-sound digital audio;Navigation system integrated into gauge cluster; Hands-free cellular communication; Dual-zone automatic temperature control with odor/particulate filtration.
* Passenger and Cargo Flexibility: Power liftgate; Fold-flat/tumble second row bucket seats; Third row 50-50 fold-flat bench.
* Total Safety System: On-demand all-wheel-drive or front-wheel-drive with traction control; Four-wheel anti-lock disc brakes; Side curtain airbags in all three rows; Tire pressure monitoring system.
Looks a bit more van-ish than I would like, and might be too low in the driver's seat, but otherwise, quite a competitor.
http://www.edmunds.com/media/adunit...p_exterior2.htm |
|
|
| jonnygoodboy |
Looks like something between a wagon and an SUV (not necessarily good or bad).
I kind of like the looks.
Nice feature set.
Chrysler. |
|
|
| DaleB |
Very interesting. Nice features. 2+2+2 seating is unique.
Never would guess they were targeting the MDX... :rolleyes: |
|
|
| hammerX |
But it's still a Chrysler product! :28: :1pat: :bonk: :twak:
They look great, but thats as far as I'll go with regards to what I think of their products.
2003 SS MDX (cdn model) :2: |
|
|
| MDXtrous |
| Integrated Navi into instrument cluster is pretty neat... |
|
|
| boatdoc1 |
:bootyshak
Ditto hammerX ! My past experiences with Chrysler products would stop me from even considering it. No matter how good it looked. |
|
|
| ByeByeChrysler |
ditto
hence my handle
:rolleyes: |
|
|
| DaleB |
| Your handle says it all. No doubt about it. |
|
|
| neide |
| I wonder how much influence (if any) the Dailmer arm had on this model? Maybe that could help in the quality department. I too have suffered at the hands of their products, I did however love my Jeep. |
|
|
| feliz |
| It would take a lot to convince me to buy another Chrysler after the unfortunate experience of having owned four mini vans. Yes, I'm a slow learner, I kept believing their PR that they had fixed the problems and the new models were improved and would be OK. |
|
|
| nugg_dawg |
| No offence to anyone here but.......NEVER WILL I BUY AN AMERICAN CAR.:rolleyes: |
|
|
| wmquan |
quote:
Originally posted by neide
I wonder how much influence (if any) the Dailmer arm had on this model? Maybe that could help in the quality department. I too have suffered at the hands of their products, I did however love my Jeep.
I've read rumors that the Pacifica would have some components from Mercedes-Benz, but the last ones I heard of was that less than 5% of its components would be MB components. One article said its rear suspension was derived from the MB E-class.
However, the current thought is that the new Chrysler Crossfire would have 39% parts from MB, including the engine.
The theory is that MB parts (perhaps second-generation) may filter down to Chrysler, but not up. Of course, with MB's recent history of quality problems, this may not be a good thing (though can Chrysler be any worse)? The Crossfire's engine will be MB's ubiquitous 3.2 liter V6 which has been a very good engine. |
|
|
| msu79gt82 |
quote:
Originally posted by MDXtrous
Integrated Navi into instrument cluster is pretty neat...
My wife and I like being able to see the Navi from the passenger seat; I do not care for the dash placement. |
|
|
| jonnygoodboy |
quote:
Originally posted by msu79gt82
My wife and I like being able to see the Navi from the passenger seat; I do not care for the dash placement.
I second the sentiment. Putting the navi screen in the instrument cluster is brain damage. |
|
|
| mdxxxx |
quote:
Originally posted by msu79gt82
My wife and I like being able to see the Navi from the passenger seat; I do not care for the dash placement.
I third the sentiment... spacial and sensory overload...:eek: :20: :13: |
|
|
| buhmabee |
| It is station wagon. I give Chrysler credit for trying. Chrysler once filled a gap between station wagon and cargo vans when they introduced the Minivan. They are again attempting to fill the a gap between station wagon and SUV. |
|
|
| DaleB |
| And it can be important to have your 'co-pilot' have access to it if you are too busy driving. |
|
|
| hammerX |
It's still a Chrysler !:16: :2:
2003 SS MDX (cdn model) |
|
|
| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by hammerX
It's still a Chrysler !:16: :2:
2003 SS MDX (cdn model)
Yup, looks like they threw things in to be competitive without much forethought. |
|
|
| 2002 Acura MDX! |
quote:
Originally posted by MDXtrous
Integrated Navi into instrument cluster is pretty neat...
Don't you think the speedometer looks like the once in the Mercedes??? |
|
|
| Arzoo |
| By putting the Nav in the instrument cluster, it has a much smaller screen, plus it's of no use to the passenger. I also think the dash has way too many curves (IMHO). |
|
|
| TheyCallMeBruce |
quote:
Originally posted by MDXtrous
Integrated Navi into instrument cluster is pretty neat...
At first glance, yeah, less eye movement required to glance at the screen. But is it a touch screen? Do you stick your arm through the steering wheel to operate the menus? How does your passenger help you program the address when you are driving?
Now a DUEL navi screen could be cool. Big 7" in the middle as on the MDX, and a mini 5" for frequent references. Plus, an optional screen in the back (sans any controls) if you have children on vacation who keep asking if you're there yet - and that switches into a playstation screen for parental sanity. |
|
|
| Dale MDX |
I think a lot of people thought or hoped that Mercedes would be able to pull Chrysler up as far as reliability and quality. It looks like what's happening is the opposite. Mercedes quality is going downhill fast. Most people already know that the M-Class SUV was a disaster from the start. It hasn't improved much. (Check Consumer Reports annual reliabilty statistics, for example). Now the newish C-Class design is well below average in reliabilty.
I'm even a little concerned about Honda's direction, too. The Nov. 2002 review of economy sedans wasn't at all complimentary to the Civic. It came in 5th place out of 10, behind Protege, Hyundai, Corolla, and Focus, in that order. While that's partly performance based, they had serious complaints about quality control on the Civic, noting lots of rattles, splotchy paint, bad panel gaps, and fit of dash pieces. For the Corolla, they compared its quality to Lexus (although I sat in a 2003, and it ain't no Lexus as far as what I consider quality interior components).
My own opinion is that cost cutting is a rampant disease in the industry. Everybody believes, probably realistically, that price matters above all else, and they nickel and dime parts and design to cut their MSRP (and/or increase profits). This same thing shows up in other consumer products as well. Try comparing a modern VCR to one from 10 years or more ago. They're like lightweight, throw-away plastic junk, that sometimes happens to perform well, at least for a while. (Many other stereo and electronic products similar, like home computer printers). |
|
|
| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by Dale MDX
They're like lightweight, throw-away plastic junk, that sometimes happens to perform well, at least for a while. (Many other stereo and electronic products similar, like home computer printers).
I am not sure that is all bad. How many people are rushing out to buy VCRs anyway? And compare the sound and video quality of a $150 VCR today, with one that cost $400 ten years ago.
DVD players are now under $300 list price, with features only found on players that listed for $800 two years ago.
Sure, they are lighter, and have 'cookie'cutter' electronics installed, but they perform all the functions of previous upscale ones, and in fact have features like SACD or DVD Audio that have only recently become available.
That's great for me, because when the next generation comes around, I will not be in the position of replacing another expensive component in order to upgrade.
Besides, that last great deal I got on a Pioneer Elite was not so great when it refused to play CDs after only 2 years. Now I can play almost anything recorded on a disk for the discounted price of $200 for a Panasonic. Probably what it would have cost me to fix the Pioneer.
Progress moves in strange ways sometimes, but it's not always so bad. |
|
|
| Dale MDX |
Dale B-
I agree with your points. I guess what I object to is the "mechanical" cheapness of so many products. Things like little doors that are flimsy and feel like they will break off at any moment, and sometimes do, dials that move around like they aren't attached to anything, calibration that's way off, etc. Other products in the "cheap" class that I've noticed lately include microwave ovens. It's very hard to find one that has a substantial feeling door that doesn't go "twang..." when you close it or panels that seem like they won't dent easily. It would add maybe $20 to the cost to do it right, but the manufacturer looks at that incremental cost and decides that the product would never sell. But on the other hand, you can buy a microwave oven for $40 on sale. (I have no idea how anybody is making a profit at that level). However, I think there IS a market for better-made products. Maytag Neptune washing machines, at about double the price of other washers, sell very well. Maybe part of the problem is that sometimes the "quality" products do exist, but they are very hard to find because the typical stores (Wal Mart, Best Buy, etc.) don't carry them due to expected low sales volume. And, unfortunately, sometimes the "premium" product is priced at a ridiculous level, many times more than would is justified by the materials, etc. (very high profit for the maker) so that takes the consumer back to the "cheap" product.
Hmmmm... This has diverged from the Chrysler Pacifica topic. |
|
|
| wmquan |
quote:
Originally posted by Dale MDX
However, I think there IS a market for better-made products. Maytag Neptune washing machines, at about double the price of other washers, sell very well. Maybe part of the problem is that sometimes the "quality" products do exist, but they are very hard to find because the typical stores (Wal Mart, Best Buy, etc.) don't carry them due to expected low sales volume. And, unfortunately, sometimes the "premium" product is priced at a ridiculous level, many times more than would is justified by the materials, etc. (very high profit for the maker) so that takes the consumer back to the "cheap" product.
More off-topic, to a degree -- ironically, Maytag's heavily advertised reputation for reliability does not seem to be deserved. Consumer Reports' brand repair histories often list Maytag products as having some of the highest repair rates relative to other brands! Maytag's products themselves may have construction and features that appear high-quality, of course. |
|
|
| MDXtrous |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
I am not sure that is all bad. How many people are rushing out to buy VCRs anyway? And compare the sound and video quality of a $150 VCR today, with one that cost $400 ten years ago.
DVD players are now under $300 list price, with features only found on players that listed for $800 two years ago.
Sure, they are lighter, and have 'cookie'cutter' electronics installed, but they perform all the functions of previous upscale ones, and in fact have features like SACD or DVD Audio that have only recently become available.
That's great for me, because when the next generation comes around, I will not be in the position of replacing another expensive component in order to upgrade.
Besides, that last great deal I got on a Pioneer Elite was not so great when it refused to play CDs after only 2 years. Now I can play almost anything recorded on a disk for the discounted price of $200 for a Panasonic. Probably what it would have cost me to fix the Pioneer.
Progress moves in strange ways sometimes, but it's not always so bad.
Tend to agree with DaleB. I really think different items require different considerations. Just as an example, I purchased a Denon receiver for $500 a few years back, because I thought it was a very key component for my A/V setup that needed to last a long time and provide good sound. But, when it came time to purchase a DVD player, I got one for $110 from a no-namer from eBay made in China, but is all-region, plays DVD/VCD/MP3s and has karaoke built-in. The features for the price was hard to pass on, and it's inexpensive enough, that if it breaks in 2 years, I know that the technology would have moved so fast, I'd just replace it with another inexpensive DVD player.
The same happened when I put in an aftermarket video system in the MDX. I could not justify paying excessive amounts on the name brands like Clarion, Eclipse, Alpine, but chose the generics TView, Power Acoustik again because of price, and I didn't see that much of a difference in the quality of the picture.
But when it came to the MDX, I would not have even considered getting an Explorer, even if were $5000 less, exactly because of quality. So I guess, what I'm trying to say, is for certain items that are almost "commodities" CD players, DVD players now, flip-down screens, price is the biggest differentiator, and there is probably a perceived notion that quality can't be that bad. But for items such as a good receiver, or a luxury SUV, quality is such a big consideration, I guess because if a DVD player breaks today, I know I can go out and get one for $70, but if a defective tire goes out on the highway, I could end up in a serious accident... |
|
|
| Dale MDX |
I posted the above comment a few days back as part of this thread. I felt I should follow up because I just drove a 2003 Civic LX 4 door. I don't see where Car and Driver is coming from. Did they get a pre-production model or something (doesn't seem likely as there is no major change from 02 to 03) or maybe one that had been nearly totaled and repaired?
The one I drove had no squeaks or rattles (It only had 4 miles on it when I started driving, however). I noted nothing on the dash that looked like it didn't fit right. Every bit the equal of the MDX there. Body gaps may not be industry-leading, but I don't see them as big and they seemed even and consistent. Although it was a cloudy day, I didn't see any splotches in the silver paint. By the way, the Civic drove impressively quietly and smoothly, with a very adequate power level (at least in the 5 speed I drove).
Now I may drive the Corolla competition, which beat the Civic in the C&D test. Anybody have experience with the 03 Corolla (new model), especially vs. the Civic? I may be in the market soon. I did sit in a Corolla and agreed with C&D's assessment that the pedals are too close and/or steering wheel is too far away. They designed it for somebody with a 24 inch inseam and 48 inch long arms or something. Orangutan? |
|
|
|
