| spain |
| I hate American made vehicles. Fortunately, I havent owned one since the piece of crap mustang that I had in 1981. But we needed a small SUV in the spring of 2001. I wanted to get the brand new exciting and beautiful MDX. My wife said it was too expensive. So we decided to go cheap and we got a 2001 Ford Escape. Big mistake. The vehicle has been in the shop at least 15 times in the past year and a half. The Ford dealership service department couldnt spell service if you spotted them the 1st six letters of the word. That is my last American Made Vehicle. The materials are cheap. The problems are inumerable. The Dealerships dont care if you ever come back. How do the American Manufacturer's stay in business? i will never buy and American made car again... |
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| hammermdx |
| I wholeheartedly agree! If your post doesn't bring RobJ back, nothing will :cool: |
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| EXCALIBUR |
spain,
Sorry to hear of your misfortune. I often wonder if American made cars are all that bad. Your story only confirms the belief. So far, my MDX has been flawless. I hope it stays that way. |
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| Billr |
Spain, How do you define an American made vehicle?
I understand your issue having had many issues with "Domestic" branded vehicles for years.
As I understand it and it says on your sticker the MDX is an American made vehicle. |
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| mdxxxx |
quote:
Originally posted by hammermdx
I wholeheartedly agree! If your post doesn't bring RobJ back, nothing will :cool:
LOL!! I can't wait!:22: :jester: |
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| spain |
quote:
Originally posted by Billr
Spain, How do you define an American made vehicle?
I understand your issue having had many issues with "Domestic" branded vehicles for years.
As I understand it and it says on your sticker the MDX is an American made vehicle.
I am referring to Ford and General Motors products. Where the car and/or its parts are produced is irrelevent. |
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| spain |
quote:
Originally posted by hammermdx
I wholeheartedly agree! If your post doesn't bring RobJ back, nothing will :cool:
I am new to this board so I dont get the reference. Please fill me in.. |
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| mdxxxx |
quote:
Originally posted by spain
I am new to this board so I dont get the reference. Please fill me in..
It's really a long long story... do a search on "transmissions" or "tranny" or "therobsj". You'll soon find out...:D |
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| crmsnidol |
quote:
Originally posted by Billr
Spain, How do you define an American made vehicle?
I understand your issue having had many issues with "Domestic" branded vehicles for years.
As I understand it and it says on your sticker the MDX is an American made vehicle.
If you consider American Made to include Canada. Maybe we should start using the term "North American Made". :) |
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| jkim357 |
| My first and last American car was a 1989 Ford Mustang (wanted that power) and also swore to myself that I would never buy an American car again. Recently, with all the new American SUV's, I was thinking if they improved on quality or not. I guess from reading these posts, they really haven't. I also don't understand why people keep buying these problem prone, gas hogging, no resale value, out of style cars!! I guess the better question is, why don't he manufactures learn! |
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| manus1980 |
Chrysler has to be the worst auto maker around. My family had a 96 Sebring jxi(aka Sh*tbring) and right from the start one problem after another. We had a stack or recall notices in the kitchen. Car's interior flooded in the rain, the gauges never worked, one of the seatbelts buckles came backwards, bad transmission, stereo amp worked half the time, paint faided to a dark grey, etc. The worst part is Chrysler doesn't honor their warranty and that is why they started that whole 5 Star Chrysler Dealership bs.
My sister worked for a Chrysler dealership for a short period. I was told that the dealership's policy is to rip the customers off on repairs and maintenance whenever possible. They would get caught all the time to and it didn't bother the dealership or Chrysler headquarters. The government should have never bailed them out of their debt.
The only reason to purchase a Chrysler was that it is an American automaker, but not anymore. |
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| buhmabee |
| It would seem that no matter where the car is made or by who actually builds the thing, once it's slapped with an American automakers logo the car's going to suck. |
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| NguyenMDX |
| It may seem out of this conversation but is the Ford Escape = Mazda Tribunte?, Ford/Mazda has been a on going partnership and quite possibly that Ford just debaged the Mazda and put its name on it................. aka Acura slx (isuzu trooper) |
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| Jon |
Not all American made cars are that bad.......just look at the Viper and Corvette :2: :2:
Other than those two........American cars are not even worth comparing. Just my feeling. |
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| TheRobSJ |
How DARE you insult American cars!!! So be it. You're entitlted to your opinion...no matter how wrong it is.
I'll admit that these half assed SUVs like the Ford Escape (which was jointly designed by a very non American company called Mazda by the way), Honda CRV, Toyota RAV4, Chevy Tracker, are more or less taller versions of those old Eagle 4wd station wagons. Not powerful enough or big enough to really be of much utility or sport.
But I'd take a GMC Envoy or Lincoln Aviator over one of these MDXs any day.
Rob |
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| ndahbar |
TheRobSJ,
Now you must tell us WHY you'd take a GMC or Lincoln over the MDX. :4: |
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| vicpai |
quote:
Originally posted by spain
I hate American made vehicles. Fortunately, I havent owned one since the piece of crap mustang that I had in 1981. But we needed a small SUV in the spring of 2001. I wanted to get the brand new exciting and beautiful MDX. My wife said it was too expensive. So we decided to go cheap and we got a 2001 Ford Escape. Big mistake. The vehicle has been in the shop at least 15 times in the past year and a half. The Ford dealership service department couldnt spell service if you spotted them the 1st six letters of the word. That is my last American Made Vehicle. The materials are cheap. The problems are inumerable. The Dealerships dont care if you ever come back. How do the American Manufacturer's stay in business? i will never buy and American made car again...
agree with you, without the slightest hesitation!!.......However, I'm going to go one step further and say that AMERICAN branded vehicles suck!! ..........because American made vehicles include the MDX, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord etc. etc. ......I'm also going to say that I LOVE MY COUNTRY, the good old U.S. of A. very dearly, because it is somehow assumed that if you don't buy an American brand you're unpatriotic!!! :rolleyes: .......It's really ironic because many of the SO-CALLED "American" vehicles are not even made in the U.S., but in third-world countries like Mexico!!.......while a majority of the Japanese branded vehicles are made right here in the U.S.A. or Canada!
My first 2 (and last, Thank God!) vehicles were Amercian brands: A 1981 Chevy Caprice Classic and a 1984 Ford Escort. Both were the biggest POS you can imagine!! .....I don't think a Japanese brand could attain this shoddy level of quality and slip-shod workmanship EVEN IF THEY TRIED!! :eek: :eek: In a matter of several weeks, a ton of stuff went wrong with BOTH of them, costing a me a few thousands.....and the kicker was: The Chevy barely had around 40K original miles on it, while the Ford Escort had around 60K (and we're not talking minor stuff here, but things like the transmission blowing out etc.) ........After this I swore I would never again buy an American brand, and have only owned Japanese brands, and couldn't be happier!! :) |
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| vicpai |
.....but the Lincoln Aviator makes the Acura MDX look like the most off-road capable machine ever built!!. Even friggin CAR magazines which have no business rating a vehicle's off-road abilities in the first place, :rolleyes: noted that the Aviator had "very limited ground clearance" and this was cited as a major flaw!!..... Yeah right, I'd much rather take a Honda Odyssey Minivan off-pavement before I ever take that POS poseur Aviator anyplace without ashpalt!!
The GMC Envoy, again, masquerades as a REAL off-road capable, "tough" machine. It's approach, departure and breakover angles are A JOKE, and it's ground clearance would make a sports car envious!! .....At least the MDX does not PRETEND to be a tough off-roader :rolleyes: .....If one takes a close look, it is the Japanese who make truly tough, off-road capable SUVs....Perfect case in point is the new 4Runner!! which has a ton of ground clearance, 3 solid steel skid-plates, Excellent approach, departure and breakover angles .......and the icing on the cake is: you get all this with ride and handling almost equal to that of a car!! - Now that's what we call technology! |
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| spain |
quote:
Originally posted by TheRobSJ
How DARE you insult American cars!!! So be it. You're entitlted to your opinion...no matter how wrong it is.
I'll admit that these half assed SUVs like the Ford Escape (which was jointly designed by a very non American company called Mazda by the way), Honda CRV, Toyota RAV4, Chevy Tracker, are more or less taller versions of those old Eagle 4wd station wagons. Not powerful enough or big enough to really be of much utility or sport.
But I'd take a GMC Envoy or Lincoln Aviator over one of these MDXs any day.
Rob
How DARE the American Car Manufacturer's insult us with the poor quality, poor value, and poor service, that they provide. If they were even close, I would be first in line to buy American. But the American Car Manufacturerer's just dont get it. They have steadily lost market share in the US, when most Americans which prefer to supoort an American company over a foreign one anyday. But the materails they use are cheap. Their vehicle are about as stylish as a tuna can. The resale vaule is abysmal. The service at the dealerships is horrific. If not for truck sales, Ford and Chevy would already be out of business. When will the Big 3 wake up?
Before I bought my MDX, i test drove the Aviator. True to the American Car Manufacterer's craftsmanship there were problems with the 1 Aviator on the lot. The latch on the rear door was stuck so they couldnt open it. And nobody there could fix whilel I was there incuding 2 guys from the service department. No way was I going to buy that hunk of junk. I dont know as much about the Envoy, other than my wife said, "Yuck" when I pointed out that boxy bread wagon when we passed one on the street. I didnt think there was any reason to inspect it further with such ugly styling. |
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| cmdpm |
most of us have loved cars since we were little kids. this is why there are so many passionate members of www.acuraMDX.org.
in addition, all of us work hard to make the huge sums of money ( purchase price, interest, gas, maintenance, insurance, etc.) to pay for our MDXs and other cars/trucks.
from what i've seen over many years of reading hundreds of cars mags and owning many vehicles i can share these thoughts with you:
1. at the core of success in creating the MDX ( or any complex technology) is ENGINEERING! this includes the conceptualization of the MDX in relation to the specific group that it is targeted for, design of each of the 10,000s of parts, reliable and quality outsourcing with minimal acceptable tolerances, and the entire assembly line process including the automated and human component ( minimizing the potential for human errors ). it seems to be less a factor of where a car is made and more a factor of superior engineering. the engineering of most american cars/trucks is flawed at some level which is reflected in reliability and more importantly, real world resale value. this has been the case, in general, for 2 decades.
2.the execution of the MDX indicates that acura has the desire, willingness, resources and long-term perspective to establish a lifelong relationship with the owner. in other words, it is less concerned about only short-term profits in exchange for a satisfied customer that will purchase many acuras in their lifetime.
this is in contrast to the approach of the big three that seems to put immediate profits ahead of everything else and sacrifice their future for it. they are much more concerned about selling alot of vehicles (quantity) at the expense of long-term value (quality) for the consumer. ( if honda/acura is watching...this should also apply to your dealerships/service depts. do not jeopardize all the efforts put into the MDX with less than premier-brand support!!!)
3. i am not saying that all big three cars/trucks are poorly engineered. some are world-class (corvette, navigator) but the value that the vehicle commands over the years ( even though this value is based on many factors) has to be considered the best objective gauge in measuring successful engineering.
where am i coming from?....i WANT to buy american, i WANT to support the big three, but after owning buicks, cadillacs, fords and olds i will probably never buy from the big three again. the combination of poor quality, wasted time bring the cars to service, and painful depreciation has forced me to feel this way.
my most recent truck was a 2001 toyota sequoia, and although it was not perfect, it was much better than any GM or ford i've ever owned. i traded in the sequoia for an MDX which I just got on 12/27. so far i love it and hope i will keep it for many years. acura seems to have the passion, commitment and engineering that is essential because i see it in my MDX.
WISHING EVERYONE WELL, all MDXers and all car/truck lovers everywhere,
chris
:7: celebrate life!!!
p.s.- these discussions should remind us just how lucky we are to have so many choices. |
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| buhmabee |
...And then there was peace throughout the land.
Well typed cmdpm, well typed. |
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| spain |
| I had to take my Ford Escape back to the shop again today. The coolant warning light came on, although there is plenty of coolant. Plus the alarm keeps going off for no reason, usually around 2:00 a.m. Of course, the service manager could give a rat's ass about my problem. He didnt care this time about like he didnt care the other 15 times I have had to leave my vehicle with him. Surely they cant treat everyone this way and expect people to keep coming back. Oh wait, people arent going back... |
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| hammerX |
It's too bad Ameriacn car makers don't make cars like they used to.
2003 SS MDX - cdn model - res,back up sensor,Husky all weather floor mats |
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| Billr |
I test drove an Envoy XL and I had an 02 Mountaineer rental for about a week (my 98 was in the shop again, transfer case this time) and the only place I can think of taking them to is a car crusher. They do have a lot of torque if you have to tow something heavy but there are much better choices.
There are so many good choices available but it's unfortunate that the big 3 (maybe 5 or 6) just don't get it. |
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| laborlitigator |
| I owned a 99 Jeep and can honestly say it was well made and did not have any problems. Well, until I had to sell it. . . market value was terrible. |
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| iceman1331 |
All of a suddent, I have recently seen a whole lot of TV commercials on American Brand SUV, cars, trucks sales with $3,000 discount off MSRP or zero% financing for 5 years. But, have not seen similar things for Japanese or European brand vehicles including the MDX, WHY ?
U.S. auto manufacturers should spend time, $, and resources to beef up their vehicles to regain consumer confidence, instead of wasting TV $ to low sale their vehicles and look for short term profit. Plan for long term stratedy to include quality improvement, QA/QC, design change, customer services, etc. Otherwise, U.S. brand vehicles will loss the competition to all foreign brand vehicles in the not too far future. |
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| TheRobSJ |
quote:
Originally posted by vicpai
[BYeah right, I'd much rather take a Honda Odyssey Minivan off-pavement before I ever take that POS poseur Aviator anyplace without ashpalt!![/B]
Well good...because you pretty much did. Bigger tires, AWD and a SUV body, and voila! The Oddyssey becomes a Pilot or MDX! Magic.
I've counterpointed this before, but once again...it's true an American SUV like the Envoy may be just as crappy off road as the MDX because of ground clearance issues. But here's the key word. Potential. At least it's got the capability in it. Strip off the soccer mom running boards, jack it up six inches, and slap a big set of super swampers on it and there is a fairly capable off roader. Can the MDX do that? I guess it'd need a real hi/low transfer case first. Well, that's not a viable option, so I guess not.
And only one of you mentioned what the American brands have that Japanese still don't have a grasp of yet. Torque. You all know what that is right? It's what lets you haul or tow around a bunch of stuff. Something that an SUV is supposed to be able to do... But it seems that the Utility part of SUV is the lowest priority in Japanese design.
And the fact that Japanese vehicles come up short in the power department is why they can't challenge the immensely large American dominated truck market. It's no secret what the best selling vehicle is? Why are the Japanese sitting on their ass and not trying to take a cut out of the sales of the F series truck? If they could just take 1/4 of the truck market away, they'd make a pantload more money. Surely that'd be worth their while right? But so far, and only recently, Toyota is the only one who's tried to take a shot at the title. The Tundra is nice. But a Silverado, F150, or Ram can still outhaul, out tow, and pretty much just out truck it. The Tundra only wins in the refinement and carlike driveability that most of you MDX loyalists cherish so much. But keep in mind, that you are all still the minority. Ford must sell 5 or 6 Explorers for every MDX that gets sold. The truth is in the numbers.
Rob |
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| RealWing |
I now have a leased 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee Ltd that was one problem after another. Major problem was whining axle assemblies. They are made by Dana -who used to be good- but quality went south. DC knew it, but kept building Jeeps anyway with one bad axle after another. Took over a year to get "fixed" and still had a whine.Brakes kept warping every 15,000Km. Took 2.5 years to fix the auto temp control, etc.
I ordered a MDX to replace my Jeep which I give back on Jan21!!!
In addition, my son had a 2001 Neon that was in the shop for 128 days in first year!!! DC would do nothing to resolve. We finally went to arbitration and they were forced to buy back the car and give him his money back.
Conclusion:
1. Poor quality
2. They dont care about customers. |
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| spain |
| Hey Rob! If you have all this pent up hostility toward Acura, why in God's name do you troll this MDX board so much? I understand they canned you for unprofessional conduct, but you need to move on with your life. We have all made mistakes in life. I know that I have made more than my share. But we should learn from those misdeeds and try to grow as a person. You seem to allow Acura to make you a bitter and broken man. You come here spoiling for a fight with people who are here because of their love of the MDX. Your hatred for Acura only hurts you Rob. These other people arent argueing with you Rob, they are laughing at you. I would recommend you hang out at one of the Edmunds boards where your knowledge and expertise would be appreciated by Ford or Chevy truck lovers. Instead you come here and continue to prove the point of your self professed enemies. Why Rob? Why? |
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| rroof |
| I'll second the '99 Jeep Grand Cherokee. I've had ZERO problems with mine (although none with the MDX either with 18K), but I have beat the living HE&& out of the Jeep off-road (and I LOVE the V8 - gas mileage be damned). It is a shame, but other than Trucks (Jeep included) and certain high end sports cars, the big 3 are seriously lacking. I am still a patriotic chap (spent too long in the Army) and even have a small American Flag on my M3 license plate and MDX (I won't even mention the Jeep). I'll still keep looking and looking - can you hear me big 3: I have plenty of money and buy lots of cars/trucks! Make me a product for peats sake! |
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| mdxxxx |
quote:
Originally posted by spain
... Instead you come here and continue to prove the point of your self professed enemies. Why Rob? Why?
Because he's just having fun... Entertaining everyone. |
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| EXCALIBUR |
mdxxxx,
Well said, and so noted.:D |
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| MDXor |
Spain,
I guess you have a strong point to apply the lemon law and get yourself a RAV4 or CRV...
In any case Good Luck!!!
:( |
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| paul123 |
I wouldn't say All American Cars. I find the high end american cars are good and the lower tends to have more trouble. I still do feel that the american cars run at higher temperatures than the foreign which in turns makes shorter life of the cars. The foreign cars do much better in keeping the engines running cooler.
PS: American car makers want you to get a new care every two or so years and the foreign car makers want you to keep your car for life. |
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| spain |
I dropped the Escape off at the dealer yesterday afternoon at 2:30. Never heard back from the dealer until 9:00 this morning. He said that they havent been able to look at the vehicle yet, but as soon as one of his mechanics gets free, he will get right on it. I replied, "Get free? Is he being released from prison today?" He didnt like that one.. I asked if there was an estimated time that I could expect my piece guano back, he couldnt give me a "firm" time. I will bet that they cant figure it out like the 5 times my engine light was on and they had no idea why. They finally just unplugged the sensor. My guess is they will do the same this time. As far as the faulty alarm, they still have no clue after repeated attempts to fix it.
NEVER AGAIN!!! |
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| dean_t |
| My experience with my Ford Escort was great. I kept the car 6 years and didn't have any problems with it. My father put ~ 185k miles on a Ford tempo (original trans and engine). After 40k my Sebring has performed satisfactory. So based on my experience I wouldn't go as far and say "American Cars Suck!!". I have a good friend that purchased a Toyota Camry and had gas tank cover fall off, door handles break, etc... He then purchased a Honda Odyssey and had transmission problems within a month of ownership. So based on his experience he can state "Japanese Cars Suck!!". Just my .02. |
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| SuperDuty Steve |
...And that's how I persuaded my wife that we needed the MDX over any Ford product.
I have a 99 F-250 Superduty Crew Cab 4x4 Lariat with Powerstroke Diesel. It has 99,500 miles on it. I purchased an aftermarket (warrantygold.com) warranty for 150,000 miles, bumper to bumper, and it was the best $2000 I spent on my truck. It has been in the shop 18 times since new, and I have to take it back in this week for a leaking rear main seal. My extended warranty, which kicked in at 36,000 miles, has paid out over $5500 in repairs since then.
Here's a list of the things that I can recall having been replaced on it:
Cam Position Sensor
Torque converter
Steering wheel (scratched before delivery)
front and rear springs
spring pads (twice)
sway bar end links (twice)
Steering box
a/c compressor
a/c clutch pressure switch
rear pinion seal
turbo bolts missing
air box cracked
Transmission solenoids replaced
transmission pump failed, destroyed transmission
front brake rotors
left front hub
various trim loose or missing
poor alignment (multiple times)
steering wheel not straight
steering shaft (twice)
tie rods (twice)
clockspring
electric fuel pump
high pressure oil pump
Injector Drive Module
cupholder
Loose mirror glass
Right rear power window motor
Vehicle speed sensor
As stated earlier, it is dripping a lot of oil on my driveway, and it appears to be the rear main seal leaking.
If the dealers would actually fix the problems, it would be better, but usually they are unsuccessful in this pursuit.
I told my wife that if we were to keep the vehicle for 10 to 15 years, a Ford would eat us alive in repair costs.
My wife, who comes from a Ford family, has reluctantly agreed upon the MDX. I think she will never go back to a Ford after this.
Never again!
Steve |
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| TheRobSJ |
quote:
Originally posted by spain
Hey Rob! If you have all this pent up hostility toward Acura, why in God's name do you troll this MDX board so much? I understand they canned you for unprofessional conduct, but you need to move on with your life. We have all made mistakes in life. I know that I have made more than my share. But we should learn from those misdeeds and try to grow as a person. You seem to allow Acura to make you a bitter and broken man. You come here spoiling for a fight with people who are here because of their love of the MDX. Your hatred for Acura only hurts you Rob. These other people arent argueing with you Rob, they are laughing at you. I would recommend you hang out at one of the Edmunds boards where your knowledge and expertise would be appreciated by Ford or Chevy truck lovers. Instead you come here and continue to prove the point of your self professed enemies. Why Rob? Why?
Gee thanks Dr. Freud. How much do I owe you for the session? Or do you charge by the hour?
While some of you may laugh at me...many in my circle laugh at a bunch of fools that get all riled up when I come in and insult their CAR! It's not your wife. It's not your kids. It's just a CAR! If someone doesn't like it, so what. But nope...you will defend it's honor as if it bears your family crest emblazoned across its hood. True, boards like this are only avenues for other owners to pat each other on the back and make eachother feel good about having what they think is the best out there. I come on these boards to shoot you all a dose of the real world every once in a while. But in exchange for my opinions as much as they may propel some folks into the deepest darkest reaches of their true vindictive nature, I have been known to offer some of my vast knowledge of auto repair on you all. So here's my pshyce analyisis for you... You gotta sperate the wheat from the chaff. Have a nice day. Pay the receptionist on your way out and get the hell of my couch. Next!
Rob |
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| Number 6 |
| what a frigging moron... |
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| SuperDuty Steve |
Wanna buy a Ford? If you're such a crack (head) master technician, then my truck ought to be right up your alley. It requires repairs on a monthly basis.
Rob,
I'm sorry nobody loves you. I'm sorry your parents beat you when you were a little kid. It's ok for you to be a loser, but not here. In other words, piss off.
Steve |
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| hammermdx |
| One of the greatest things about our country is that we allow free speech. If you review all of RobSJ's posts, I believe you will see he has provided this board with very useful information about our vehicles that we would not have been able to obtain any where else. Do I agree with everything he says, hell no, but I respect his rights to express his views freely. He is not a troll and provides valuable insight into many of our questions. Just my two cents. |
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| Number 6 |
yeah, rob is great... it's just that little thing about him ridiculing all of us at every opportunity because we like to drive our very demonstrably proven superior cars. it seems really, really simple to me. if he doesn't like acuras (he doesn't) then why doesn't he leave us in peace and go hang out of the ford forum?
can i say "dick" on this forum? |
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| ndahbar |
Rob has a point, and he is not showing pent up hostility. CONTEXT guys, context. Let me elaborate. He delves into talking about serious offroading. Thus he mentions the Licoln Aviator and the MDX. Points out that the Japanese doesn't have hi/low transfer case. True. But let me before going on to the next point say that you gus in the States have NO IDEA about Japanese off-roading overseas. Anyone ever heard of the Nissan Patrol, and it's predecessors? Does anyone have any idea how good the 4Runner and especially the Land Cruiser is off-road? I am not talking about the 2003 model with navigation (LOL). I'm talking 80s here.
Now also Rob moves to the point of the pick up trucks. Yes, the American ones are the better work-horses of them all, and there are many farmer Joes out there that need all the ruggedness they can get. What do they care if the panels squeak and their leather is poor quality? They cover it in mud and drive over hills and farms for God's sake. So it's again, CONTEXT. Off-roading? Getting yer hands dirty in the corn fields? Yes, the Americans make better machines for that, at least what's offered in the USA.
Now to quote Rob
"And only one of you mentioned what the American brands have that Japanese still don't have a grasp of yet. Torque. You all know what that is right? It's what lets you haul or tow around a bunch of stuff. Something that an SUV is supposed to be able to do... But it seems that the Utility part of SUV is the lowest priority in Japanese design."
Ok the Japanese as importers have different rules/regulations with customs and all that and thus u may not realize it but as companies with global reach (i'm not excluding the big three here) they are NOT free to make vehicles with whatever engine size, ride height, safety features, and fuel efficiency as they see fit. So you don't know the whole picture...and then again neither does any of us, but a point to make nonetheless.
As for TORQUE, and UTILITY, err....r u kidding me? It is THE AMERICANS who single handedly defined to the SUV makers of the world *HOW* they use these vehicles virtually all the time! Going to the malls and crowding the highways! So what would you do? Throw in a hi/low Transfer case? LOL. I don't think so. You would make something like an MDX. Quiet, fuel efficient, compact (compared to what it can fit inside, undisputable), good looking, classy, and nice luxuries. Same with the Lexus. The new Porsche SUV. The VW. ON AND ON...
So, it seems the masses in your own country have spoken against your theory of "an SUV should have massive torque, features like hi/lo tx case etc. etc.". So the MONEY is where the demand is, for vehicles like the MDX.
The reason the JGC depreication is terrible is party due to the fact that they make TONS AND TONS of them. So for me, why should I take your "in excellent condition" 2001 Grand Cherokee over the new one? It would cost me like 5K more, due to deeeep discounts (under invoice) cuz they just haev so much they wanna just sell em.
MDX and other vehicles I *BET* are carefully output into the market. One goal I am sure is to get more market share, but another is to keep the car "special" enough, for a variety of reasons, one being to keep value pretty well. |
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| ndahbar |
The PRICE of these cars the big three offer compared to the importers is also a good strategy. Price of the car to most people, is more important than service, long term quality, etc. I think. That's why they keep selling tons of GM's, Fords, and C's year after year.
Same goes for Cadillac, a "luxury" brand. I dunno if u guys are aware, but the 1st year the ESCALADE came out, it had *HORRENDOUS* quality control. Abysmal. But then the marketing division saw that because of its appearance and "brand name" the rap stars and rich people (with multiple cars) wanted to gobble them up! So the following year they improved the quality a lot. Today, a 2003 ESCALADE is FAR better than the 1st model year, I think 2000 (but it's still sh*t IMHO cuz u tell me how the car is after 5 years of ownership).
That's another MAJOR point. The big 3 are about TURNOVER. They DO NOT *WANT* your darn car to last 10-15 years! They won't be able to sell u another one as easily then! LOL as the stand-up comedian Chris Rock once said "Are u trying to tell me that they can make a space shuttle go to the moon and sh*t but they can't keep the damn fender on a Caddy from falling off?! Are u sh*tting me?!" LOL. Point: The big 3 CAN make awesome cars. They have the money, engineering prowess (or they simply buy it) etc. But they don't care. They are about bottom line, as one said in a previous post. Believe it.
The Germans and the Japanese know they can't take them on head-on, so they go strategy. Eventually...it may take some time...but market share will be eroded from them... |
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| rroof |
Great epic, I mean post, ndahbar! I sure hope that you type fast! Anyway, choice is good. We all feel here that we made the right choice. Hell, I have an MDX and a Jeep Grand Cherokee for the best of both worlds ('ya know, classy, hold the family, never 'gonna break and keeps it value vs. torque, little things to fix, fun off-road, hold-her-till-she-dies).
Rob: I still appreciate your posts. You know deep down inside that these are just CARS! They all break and fix the same eventually. I also believe (and I think you do too) that the Honda products are engineered "differently" and superior in many ways to most of the big threes products. I wish you and your family the best for the new year.:D |
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| ndahbar |
Yes, I do type quite fast actually. :D
As for Honda...I think...scratch that...I KNOW...they have the best engineering from all the Japanese car companies, especially their engines. No doubt. |
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| spain |
| The dealership was supposed to call me back yesterday afternoon to let me know where they were in fixing my Escape. I never heard a word. They dont give loaner cars out when they fix your car, so the service rep has no idea if I have any transportation or not. This is what I am talking about. Ford service sucks. The car is always in the shop. They can never seem to find out what is wrong with it. They never call me back to let me know the status. They dont do what they promise they will do. Do they really expect me to purchase another one? |
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| hammermdx |
Well said ndahbar!
Spain, sorry to hear about the crappy service from your Ford dealer, have you tried to escalate to the regional manager?
Number 6, so it appears you are an airline pilot? Perhaps you could let us know why your industry is horrendous in keeping passengers informed when ever there is a flight delay and even worse never ever being able to get a straight answer? |
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| Number 6 |
quote:
Originally posted by hammermdx
Number 6, so it appears you are an airline pilot? Perhaps you could let us know why your industry is horrendous in keeping passengers informed when ever there is a flight delay and even worse never ever being able to get a straight answer?
it's rarely the flight crews who fail to keep passengers informed. personally, i try to make PA's about every 15 minutes even if it's to say i don't know any more than i did the last time. as far as air traffic delays are concerned, there's a big control center (i don't recall where it's located) but it's job is to regulate the flow of traffic all around the country. it takes lots of things into consideration like center radar outages, military operations areas in use, severe weather that forces rerouting, etc. sometimes you just can't move traffic because the airspace is saturated. it happens. for those of you really interested, i'll let you in on a little secret: once an airplane leaves the gate, almost NOTHING that delays it is within the airline's control. we are at the mercy of air traffic control at that point (the federal govt). i recall about 15 years ago being at laguardia airport bound for houston-hobby. from the time we pushed off the gate until the time we took of was 5 hours to the minute. there was a severe frontal system that shut down most of the arrivals and departures in the NYC area. we went through all the meals, drinks and ice. the port authority (govt) would not let us come back to the gate... they wouldn't even let a catering truck come up to us to replenish our supplies. but that's our fault, right? at least we got blamed for it. |
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| TheRobSJ |
quote:
Originally posted by rroof
Rob: I still appreciate your posts. You know deep down inside that these are just CARS! They all break and fix the same eventually. I also believe (and I think you do too) that the Honda products are engineered "differently" and superior in many ways to most of the big threes products. I wish you and your family the best for the new year.:D
I do know they are just cars. That's why I get the biggest kick of seeing people get insulted when I criticize their cars.
I like the bikes. Japanese bikes have got the reliability, price, and for the most part, performance edge on the world. But the cars? In my opinion, it's a pretty even ballgame these days. American cars of 15-20 years ago compared to Japanese have horrible reliability. But they have gotten so much better. Not all the cars out there, but most. I don't want to hear everyone showing me owner satisfaction lists for every class, but let's jusdt take the Corvette. Two years running, it's JD Powers best rated premium sports car for initial quality. Other GM vehicles have the award for their class as well. But if Honda reliability is so well why isn't the Japanese made S2000 or NSX at the top of the list? I guess them good ol' Kentucky boys actually do know what they're doing huh?
Rob |
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| ndahbar |
| You can't argue with that point boys. However, to me, the cheap interior of the Corvette is just too much. I don't care HOW affordable they have to make it. If they charge $2000 more MSRP on the Vette, surely they can make a world-class interior? I hope the C6 lives up to that. Shame, the rest of the car is great. |
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| MDXdogmom |
quote:
Originally posted by spain
So we decided to go cheap and we got a 2001 Ford Escape. Big mistake. The vehicle has been in the shop at least 15 times in the past year and a half. The Ford dealership service department couldnt spell service if you spotted them the 1st six letters of the word....
Just my opinion, but I don't think ALL American made cars suck. You said yourself that you bought a "cheap . . . 2001 Ford Escape" the FIRST year this car was manufactured. If you were expecting no problems then guess again, whether with an American or foreign made car! Yes, the first MDX didn't have any major recalls (like the Escape did) but the MDX isn't a cheap car by any stretch of the imagination.
Our 1996 Ford Ranger has 96K miles on it and NEVER ONCE visited the service department until about 85K miles when we had a tune up done in advance of the 100K mile scheduled major tuneup. The only other work done on the vehicle was routine oil changes that we did every 3.5K miles. Prior to this Ranger we had a 1984 Ranger that lasted similarly till we traded it in on this one.
One thing I will agree with you on is the inability of Ford service departments to repair these vehicles without screwing something else up. Maybe just our local dealership, but usually after a visit you'll be back within a week or so for a redo.
Ford makes decent trucks, they just can't service them!!
One comment so far as the Corvette - maybe the current ones are highly rated, but I bought a new one back in 1972 and it left a lot to be desired in initial quality, many items were repeatedly not properly corrected by the dealership.
Bottom line, I believe is that you can have problems with ANY vehicle and the line between American and Foreign vehicles is getting distorted because of the fact that many of todays vehicles are international. The current example, Ford now owns Volvo, Jaguar, and Land Rover and probably shares technology throughout.
Personally I don't care for vehicles MADE in America (we'll see how the MDX does), all of our earlier Hondas were made in Japan, MB's in Germany, BMW, etc. No matter who's the manufacturer, if it's made in America it goes on my "maybe" list. Never for first year vehicles.
Just my experiences and opinions. Flame suit on, flame away :9: |
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| vicpai |
quote:
Originally posted by MDXdogmom
..........Personally I don't care for vehicles MADE in America (we'll see how the MDX does), all of our earlier Hondas were made in Japan, MB's in Germany, BMW, etc. No matter who's the manufacturer, if it's made in America it goes on my "maybe" list. Never for first year vehicles............
......I agree with you that Japanese brands made in America are a notch below in quality, than those actually made in Japan. However these "American-built-Japanese-vehicles" have shown FAR BETTER reliability and durability than, for example, German vehicles built in Germany!! ......As a matter of fact, German vehicles have never been as reliable or well-built as Japanese brands. It's only that they are very well engineered. (what I mean is very good engineering, but not production quality) |
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| vicpai |
quote:
Originally posted by TheRobSJ
Gee thanks Dr. Freud. How much do I owe you for the session? Or do you charge by the hour?
While some of you may laugh at me...many in my circle laugh at a bunch of fools that get all riled up when I come in and insult their CAR! It's not your wife. It's not your kids. It's just a CAR! If someone doesn't like it, so what. But nope...you will defend it's honor as if it bears your family crest emblazoned across its hood. True, boards like this are only avenues for other owners to pat each other on the back and make eachother feel good about having what they think is the best out there. I come on these boards to shoot you all a dose of the real world every once in a while. But in exchange for my opinions as much as they may propel some folks into the deepest darkest reaches of their true vindictive nature, I have been known to offer some of my vast knowledge of auto repair on you all. So here's my pshyce analyisis for you... You gotta sperate the wheat from the chaff. Have a nice day. Pay the receptionist on your way out and get the hell of my couch. Next!
Rob
.......while I might have my differences of opinon with you on many things that you say, I will wholeheartedly agree with you on this one. YES, IT'S JUST A CAR!!! ........Like you said it's not your wife, kids, parents or some other loved one! (I've said this myself in other places on this board). It especially boggles my mind, when I see people calling their car "my darling baby" "love of my life" etc. etc. :rolleyes: While I might make a statement like "I love my MDX" (which means I'm very happy with it), you will NEVER catch me calling it things like "my little baby" etc. etc. :rolleyes:
.........and yes, your input on the many different issues with the MDX is also appreciated.
That said, I also like to TELL IT LIKE IT IS, not because I'm insulted by someone putting down my MDX , but for the sake of exchanging and giving out accurate information as well as having a lively discussion to bring home a point.
The MDX is one hell of a fine vehicle! IS IT PERFECT?? NO .....but it definitely does come close to it. For the money you pay (I paid $43.3K for mine with everything but the kitchen sink) I don't think you can get a vehicle that's as well engineered, refined, well put together and offering the level of feature-content as the MDX. You can go into "niche" specifics such as off-road capability, or extreme towing capability (torque) all you want, but the BOTTOM LINE remains that the MDX DOES WHAT IT'S DESIGNED TO DO VERY VERY WELL!! It does not portray itself as a Rubicon-busting off-roader or a towing champion, but a sporty all-round SUV which provides a good balance of these many conflicting attributes that an SUV must address for practical everyday living!! ......and that the majority of the people want! (good fuel economy with good performance, some off-road ability while maintaining a car-like ride/handling etc.)
As for the arguments of reliabilty, durability and quality, I believe what I see and hear (AND, OF COURSE, MY OWN EXPERIENCE). When I combine the info from various sources such as Consumer Reports, friends who actually own vehicles, info from internet enthusiast sites, etc. one thing that is clear is that Japanese brands are still heads and shoulders above their American counterparts!! While the Japanese brands are not as "Perfect" as they used to be, they're still well ahead of others in the game!! |
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| Wolf |
quote:
Originally posted by iceman1331
All of a suddent, I have recently seen a whole lot of TV commercials on American Brand SUV, cars, trucks sales with $3,000 discount off MSRP or zero% financing for 5 years. But, have not seen similar things for Japanese or European brand vehicles including the MDX, WHY ?
Uh, there was this little incident a couple years back with a couple of planes and some buildings back east. The US economy is in the ****ter. Maybe that could explain it. |
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| TheRobSJ |
Yeah. Keep America Rolling. Remember that tagline?
The Japanese brands don't do the 0% deals because they can't AFFORD to! GM, being pretty much the largest company there is, or more specifically, GMAC can afford to rob Peter to pay Paul. GM's in house finance company is pretty much losing money to do it, but as long as GM is selling cars by the hudreds of thousands every month, they can turn enough profit to make it worth their while.
Rob |
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| jurincie |
I recently read an article in either Newsweek or Time Magazine about how GM will be in serious financial shape within two years. Part of it was due to how much they have to give away in the form of cash back & low rate financing to move their products. The majority of it however was due to pension costs for retired employees due to the downsizing of their capacity from shrinking market share.
If I remember right, Ford is already in serious financial shape. |
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| hondacuraworld |
quote:
Originally posted by hammermdx
One of the greatest things about our country is that we allow free speech. If you review all of RobSJ's posts, I believe you will see he has provided this board with very useful information about our vehicles that we would not have been able to obtain any where else. Do I agree with everything he says, hell no, but I respect his rights to express his views freely. He is not a troll and provides valuable insight into many of our questions. Just my two cents.
Not to mention cause panic about an MDX transmission "epidemic" that never was.
All Rob has done is prove that someone who hates Acuras shouldn't be working on them. |
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| nwaring |
Let's see. My MDX has been back to the shop 3 times to fix problems. My mother's Escape has been back zero. She is extremely happy with it. The dealer is 5 minutes from her house and they really pamper her, and at 70 that is good!! I'll admit I tried to get her into a CRV but it keep coming down to the level of service she would get from the local Ford dealer (little town of 1,500). Contrary to what some believe on this board not every domestic made is a POS.
Niles:) |
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| spain |
| Went and picked up the Escape this morning. The service rep said they replaced the entire pan and censore for the coolant. Let's see how long it is before something else goes wrong... |
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| TheRobSJ |
quote:
Originally posted by hondacuraworld
Not to mention cause panic about an MDX transmission "epidemic" that never was.
All Rob has done is prove that someone who hates Acuras shouldn't be working on them.
Oh so you want to roll up the sleeves and get back into it with me do you? It was all the other members that wanted to know what I was seeing in the shop. And I saw however many transmissions being replaced, and I told everyone the numbers. Everyone else built it up to be an epidemic. YOU on the other hand took the typical dealer approach and pretty much said, "Nope. There's no problems with the transmission. It's a fine design. No need for concern." And gave some "national" replacement numbers that were so low that it was impossible to believe since my own single dealer exceeded those numbers. And yest, after just a whole whopping two years of production Honda decides to scrap the tranny for an all new design. And issue extended warranty coverage to the transmissions on which the MDX unit's desgin is based on. That's awful damn good evidence backing up what I said don't you think? So who's the BS artist now Tim?
Rob |
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| Number 6 |
| i've spoken to both hopkins acura in redwood city and sterling mccall acura here in houston... together they've seen 3 transmission replacements since the MDX was new. |
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| donsev |
quote:
Originally posted by TheRobSJ
It was all the other members that wanted to know what I was seeing in the shop.
Rob, they wanted to know what you were seeing because in your very first posts you asserted that there was a Pattern Failure epidemic in the MDX transmission;
quote:
Originally posted by TheRobSJ
Pattern failures I've observed...
Here's a list of problems that I see all the time that are specifically for the MDX, ...My personal favorirte, which I know some of you will be interested in...the 5-speed automatic. You name the failure, I've seen it...
So OF COURSE people are going to ask. It is like yelling "Fire" in a crowded movie theatre and everyone asking back "What fire?, Do you see a fire? We don't see a fire. Where's the damn fire?"
quote:
Originally posted by TheRobSJ
And gave some "national" replacement numbers that were so low that it was impossible to believe since my own single dealer exceeded those numbers.
Rob, YOU say the national numbers are low. The internal polling (albeit unscientific) suggest that the number that Tim shared are right on the mark. And we have every reason to believe Tim when he says that his source is reliable. I am sorry to say it but you have not built the kind of relationship with this forum that would allow the members to easily afford you the same confidence. (Also, I consider it rather telling that the frequency of "maybe I have a transmission problem" posts plummeted after this whole brouhaha subsided)
quote:
Originally posted by TheRobSJ
And yest, after just a whole whopping two years of production Honda decides to scrap the tranny for an all new design. And issue extended warranty coverage to the transmissions on which the MDX unit's desgin is based on.
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Rob, you know as well as anyone (or at least you should) that there are significant differences between the '01-'02 MDX transmissions and the transmissions of the affected models. Differences significant enough to make it foolhardy to conclude that because of a failure rate in one design, there would be a similiar failure rate in the other.
In addition, in the current hyper competitive SUV market segment, it is NOT unheard of to completely redesign a major component with less than two years of market presence. Would one conclude that the '01-'02 MDX NAVI system is defective simply because they released a completely revised system for '03?? Was there a defect in the '01-02' MDX throttle system that led Acura to release the '03 with throttle-by-wire?
I am sure that you believe what you think you saw, and I am sure that you will continue that belief in light of any evidence to the contrary. Which I guess leaves us with a big "What's the point?" |
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| mdxxxx |
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| hondacuraworld |
quote:
Originally posted by TheRobSJ
Oh so you want to roll up the sleeves and get back into it with me do you?
Believe what you want, the one thing I stand for here on this website is the TRUTH. I have been honest and true in everything I have done on this website, two years worth.
I really don't give a damn if you go and rant for the next half century about how bad Acura products are and how you and your opinions are.....I had abolutely nothing personally to gain by getting the information I did. Nor did my business. I simply went after what was the truth. The reason I did that is because if I was the owner questioning if I owned a lemon, I'd sure as hell want to know the straight story. And somebody had to find out, since you in your learned opinion could only give vague speculation of some epidemic about to infect most of the MDX ownership.
I'm now putting you on my "ignore | | | |
