| ndahbar |
At Edmunds.com : http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/road...57/article.html
I don't like the looks too much, but as always, will reserve judgement till I see one in the real world, since unlike female models, cars ALWAYS look better in person than in the pictures. ;)
Anyway MDX still has it beat, although this has cool features like adaptive suspension, swiveling headlights, and xenons. Alas the price ends up like 4-5K over a fully equipped MDX, so there ain't no free lunch. |
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| ndahbar |
It is obvious LExus is sweating about the MDX's success. They are offering the RX330 with rear-view camera (hey!), equal or near equal space inside (hey!), VERY similar gas mileage (hey!) and VERY similar performance (supposedly, as even with only 230 horses it weights 350 lbs less than an MDX).
All in all I can't beating it down. It looks to be a great car, and will sell just as well as the RX300. Too bad it still looks kinda "girly" to me. Sorry females. :2: |
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| MDXdogmom |
This "girly" agrees that it looks "girly" and personally I like the looks of the old RX300 better than the new 330. I liked the RX300's lower-body cladding and really dislike the way they rounded the rear end on the new model and how it looks with that spoiler, uck:28:
If it had more room inside, better gas mileage, and we had a better local Lexus dealer I'd probably be in the 300 rather than the X. Gotta say so far I'm glad we got the X! (Did great in the snow today, even with the Goodyear tires)
:2: |
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| mlkeller |
| Some of the new features I hope find their way to the next generation of 'X - adjustable HID system, adjustable suspension, large moonroof, power tailgate (not that I want every one of those, but it would be neat to see those options available). Let's see how Acura responds... :D |
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| ndahbar |
Well, if Acura adds all those things, we can expect a fully decked-out MDX (currently 42500) to approach 50K right? Or at least the high 40s I am sure.
Well, the new RX330 will max at about 45 or 46K fully decked out. I am sure Acura wants to be sure it does not hurt itself in terms of sales if it raises the price of its MDX by even a few K.
But what is interesting, is that the MDX sells about 35K units per year thus far, if I'm not mistaken, while Lexus is aiming for 70K (double) volume of sales. This is the figure they get for the RX300 every year pretty much.
So...why does the RX300 sell DOUBLE as much as the MDX? Brand name? You can bet your sweet buns it has a big part to do with it. People DO NOT look at Acura as "spiffy" or "ritzy" or "cool" as a Lexus. That's a fact, Jack. Ask around, you'll see that's true if you're not convinced. |
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| Number 6 |
i've been trying to figure out acura's niche for a long time now... and have failed. they obviously sell well, but...
i just don't get having 30k sedans, a 40k suv and then nothing between there and the 80k nsx.
it must work for them, though but i would love to see them produce a true luxury sedan. |
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| wmquan |
I'll try the pro-Lexus angle here even though I find the RX330's styling to be unappealing.
Lexus says they're leaving three-row SUV's to soccer moms (nasty little marketing twit there), or folks who buy the GX470.
The new vehicle may be as fast as the MDX -- less horsepower, but less weight. Suspension has been tightened up. You can use the air suspension to adjust the handling and ride comfort -- according to Edmunds, handling as good as the MDX's if not better, but with the Lexus ride.
The RX300 already has side curtain airbags which the MDX does not, and now Lexus adds a knee airbag for the driver.
The RX300 already has xenon headlamps, which the MDX does not. Now the RX330 adds the cool swiveling technology for cornering.
The RX300 already has a significantly more luxurious interior than the MDX's "near-luxury" interior, and now the RX330 gets even more luxurious. Acura has us paying extra to get a cargo cover that can make strange noises, and Lexus has a standard cover that automatically retracts when you lift the liftgate. A power liftgate is an option in the RX330.
I don't think Lexus is sweating the MDX's success as much as we might like to think -- the RX300 in its last model year is still outselling the MDX, even though Acura has increased production.
$45k may be worse case, but you get what you pay for. E.g. adding the killer Mark Levinson audio system, which beats the bejeezus out of the pedestrian Bose that Acura sticks us with when you pay more for the "Touring" Package. Some folks here probably think "pedestrian" is being too kind.
I'm not crazy about its looks, but Lexus looks like it has another winner here. They've carved out a niche for the RX300 and it kicked butt in the marketplace, and the new one should too. Acura has better keep upgrading the MDX while somehow keeping the price down. On paper, the only significant advantage the MDX may have over the new RX330 is some more passenger room and more cargo room behind the second row seat (something that is quite important to families with kids, but I guess Lexus says that's for the soccer moms!). |
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| vicpai |
| Navigation system: |
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| vicpai |
| Mark Levinson audio: |
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| vicpai |
| The panoramic moonroof: |
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| vicpai |
| a look at the cargo area: |
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| vicpai |
another look at the cargo area:
NOTICE THE STORAGE SPACE. A DESIGN RIIPPED OFF FROM THE MDX?? |
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| vicpai |
quote:
Originally posted by wmquan
I'll try the pro-Lexus angle here even though I find the RX330's styling to be unappealing.
Lexus says they're leaving three-row SUV's to soccer moms (nasty little marketing twit there), or folks who buy the GX470......
This one totally appeals to me!!
quote:
.....The new vehicle may be as fast as the MDX -- less horsepower, but less weight. Suspension has been tightened up. You can use the air suspension to adjust the handling and ride comfort -- according to Edmunds, handling as good as the MDX's if not better, but with the Lexus ride.....
They quoted 0-60 figures of 7.7 (FWD) and 7.8 (AWD) which are identical to the MDX. This is probably achieved by the lower weight combined with the greater torque ( 242lb.ft. which comes quite close to matching the MDX's 250lb.ft.)
quote:
....The RX300 already has side curtain airbags which the MDX does not, and now Lexus adds a knee airbag for the driver.
The RX300 already has xenon headlamps, which the MDX does not. Now the RX330 adds the cool swiveling technology for cornering.
The RX300 already has a significantly more luxurious interior than the MDX's "near-luxury" interior, and now the RX330 gets even more luxurious. Acura has us paying extra to get a cargo cover that can make strange noises, and Lexus has a standard cover that automatically retracts when you lift the liftgate. A power liftgate is an option in the RX330.
All very true!! ......but they still cannot dream of matching the MDX's new Navigation system!! :2:
quote:
....I don't think Lexus is sweating the MDX's success as much as we might like to think -- the RX300 in its last model year is still outselling the MDX, even though Acura has increased production.
Again very true!!......look at the ES300, which is possibly the WORLD'S UGLIEST CAR!! It still ended up being a runaway success for Lexus, because of it's typical "Lexus qualities and attributes"
quote:
.....$45k may be worse case, but you get what you pay for. E.g. adding the killer Mark Levinson audio system, which beats the bejeezus out of the pedestrian Bose that Acura sticks us with when you pay more for the "Touring" Package. Some folks here probably think "pedestrian" is being too kind.
I'm not crazy about its looks, but Lexus looks like it has another winner here. They've carved out a niche for the RX300 and it kicked butt in the marketplace, and the new one should too. Acura has better keep upgrading the MDX while somehow keeping the price down. On paper, the only significant advantage the MDX may have over the new RX330 is some more passenger room and more cargo room behind the second row seat (something that is quite important to families with kids, but I guess Lexus says that's for the soccer moms!).
There are however, a few surprising UN-LEXUS-LIKE dissappointments with the RX!
According to the link I posted earlier for detailed specs of the RX, the aerodynamic drag coefficient is listed as 0.35Cd .....Whoa!!!.....I was expecting much better than this from Lexus (at least 0.32Cd, or at worst 0.33Cd). .....GEEZ!! ......This is VERY UNIMPRESSIVE for a Lexus (especially since this is the same company that makes the LS 430 with a stunning 0.25Cd (the lowest of any production CAR, let alone a sedan) ......Even the BOXY Toyota Highlander has a lower drag coefficient of 0.34Cd!! :eek: ......What's with this?? :confused: .....especially after all the hype in the Lexus press release about the new RX having achieved great aerodynamic advances, and the fact that it was designed in the same windtunnel as the Shinkansen (bullet train) etc. etc. etc.!! The MDX's figure is not that far behind (0.36Cd)
Yet another observation:
Not that this is going to be of much consequence to most, but the "BREAKOVER ANGLE" of the new RX, is a horrendous 18 degrees, even with the optional air-suspension at it's maximum raised position!! With the regular coil suspension, it's a totally pathetic 16.1 degrees. In comparison the MDX has a 21 degree breakover angle FWIW!. However ground clearance of the new RX is an impressive 8.3 inches with the air suspension set at max. height, and so are the approach (30.5 deg) and departure (24.4 deg) angles. For the MDX they are 28 and 21 degrees respectively. |
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| tigmd99 |
Vic,
You're getting pretty picky! All of your criticisms of the new RX ALSO applies to the MDX!
Breakover?? Totally irrelevant for the customers. I don't think i have heard one complaint of MDX's low breakover angle from anyone on this forum.
Cd?? Come on, it is better than MDX. What is the big deal?? The new RX gets excellent fuel economy AND is supposedly quiet...so, who cares about Cd!!! Irrelevant!!
Vic, have you tried the new Navigation from Lexus...it is on equal ground...it is Acura that has finally caught up with Lexus in terms of details and speed of navi on the '03 MDX.
Thanks. |
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| xcel |
Hi Vicpai:
___Thanks for the information. It looks sportier than the RX 300 IMHO and the interior looks great as usual but it doesn’t look any bigger? I am still not in the camp that thinks it looks superior vs. the X but that new sleeker look is growing. Checking the spec’s, it is still giving up 4 – 5 inches in the width dept. I do like the fact that even w/ its .35 Cd, 18/24 mpg in 4x4 and 20/26 mpg in 4X2 (estimate) is pretty darn good for a 4000 pound vehicle. I see they have Brake Assist on top of the other Brake and Stability solutions. Wmquan, is this the system that applies a great deal more pressure on the pedal overcoming the drivers own timidity in an accident situation? If it is, this was quite a nice upgrade. I see DRL’s as std. also. ULEV is not up to what Acura is now putting out which is too bad for everyone. Price will be a factor of course. I wonder what a Leather equipped 4x2 or 4x4 will start at? $35K for a 4x2 w/ cloth is the same price as the 03. That was nice although a 4x4 w/ leather is the true comparison to the X and a possible $38,200 would probably be the true MSRP if the 03 pricing were to hold.
___If anything, this should move Acura to HID’s at least as an option and up the air bag std.’s. More discounting for those interested in an 03/04 X later on should help with the dealer caused trouble Acura has been faced with all these years. I am sure Honda will have Bose rework the sound system at a minimum hopefully. Maybe this will be the incentive to up the interior appointments in the X to a Lex std. as well? The 03 sill plates and chrome accents on the vents helped but the dash and seating are still below spec vs. the Lex. Wasn’t 05 the year for the major redo of the X exterior? 04 may be pretty tough for the X from those shopping the 2 vehicles if they want a more modern look.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net |
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| wmquan |
Xcel:
The current RX300 already has Brake Assist. Yes, it is the system that applies more braking pressure in certain situations.
Vic:
Well, even with the higher drag coefficient, how much do you want to bet that the RX330 will still have less wind noise than the MDX? Thus, CoD in the Lexus is pretty irrelevant to me.
And Vic, guess what? Lexus fixed the horrendous turning circle! Not only does the RX330 allegedly handle better than the MDX, it has a tighter turning circle!
Aside from the navigation system, do you regret not waiting for the RX330? Seems more of the "personal luxury SUV" you've been looking for, since you don't really need the passenger room of the MDX (which is still more than the RX330).
I'm sure Acura will respond with improvements to the MDX. But I think that Lexus has widened the gap in terms of luxury and some other features, so any improvements will still leave the MDX behind. |
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| vicpai |
Thai,
I was not totally criticizing the RX. Just Nitpicking!! ....That's because this is a vehicle from the company with a tagline that says The passionate pursuit of PERFECTION ;)
The reason I commented on the BREAKOVER angle is because it seems to me that Lexus has gone to great lengths to give the RX slightly superior off-road ability to the previous generation RX (at least you can call it "medium-duty" now) by giving it that wonderful AIR-SUSPENSION where you can raise it for better approach/departure angles, and attain a super "running ground clearance" of 8.3 inches as long as you're under 30mph!! :29: However, after achieving all of this, they screw up on the "breakover angle" :confused: (all they probably needed to do was tuck-in those components in the middle a bit better)
As far as the Navi system goes there is still no comparison. ACURA rules!! (remember I'm an "expert of sorts" by now on Navi systems ;) ....because I've used so many of them so extensively and done research on them till the "cows came home" :D ) - It's not just about the speed and graphics. These are just minor conveniences. The most important aspect has to do with the Nav system's database and it's comprehensiveness, usefulness and accessibility (especially the POIs and also the mapping) as well as overall accuracy of the database info and locational accuracy at all times!
Besides this nitpicking, however, the new RX 330 does seem to be an awesome vehicle and I'm sure it will be a big success for Lexus. BTW, I do kinda sorta like the styling!
Wayne,
as you know, I would've actually liked them to keep the RX at it's current length ;) , or at the most increase it 2 or 3" However, they increased the length by a whopping 6 inches from approx. 180" to 186" .......Now if they were not going to give it a third row seat anyways, why do this?? Again confused :confused:
William,
will sure agree with you that the RX will definitely be quite a bit quieter than the MDX. From what I read there's a ton of sound-reduction technology applied. (BTW the drag is LOWER than the MDX, just not significantly enough) ....and yes they did fix that HORRID turning circle, which was probably the previous RX's BIGGEST shortfall.
.....and yes, to a certain extent, I guess this new RX would've been a better "fit" for me. I sure like the term you use "Personal Luxury SUV" or "PUV" :D ..... However, I'm not too happy that they increased it's length by 6 friggin inches (it's almost as long as the MDX now...but without the 3rd seat :confused: ) The main reason I didn't want that 3rd row was to keep the exterior dimensions compact .....Otherwise I might as well just have that 3rd row, for those OCCASIONAL times I might use it.
To me, the most appealing feature of this new RX is the height adjustable air suspension. You get to have the cake and eat it: Decent (remember I said "decent" not "extreme") off road ability while raised and great handling and efficiency during high speed on-pavement driving, while in "low mode".
That said, I'm still happy I chose the MDX. Considering the superiority of the Nav system and the compromises mentioned above, I'd still go with the MDX if I had the choice to do it over again!! ......surprising eh?? ;) |
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| ndahbar |
Guys,
A 2004 RX330 with all the toys that u have in your MDX will cost EVERYBODY out there AT LEAST 600 a month in a lease, no matter what the lending rate, length of contract, or discounts.
As for financing, what, $100 more a month? A lot of people will be off put by that. Why? REMEMBER: This is NOT 1999 or 2002. Now we have SO MANY SUVs / X-overs in the upper 40 - 60K+ price range. BMW's X5 I am sure will eat a lot into Lexus RX300's market share since a fully loaded 3.0 will be like a few K less than the Lexus, for example. Well at least the 2004 model year will be (everyone is gonna get more competitive). When the new ML comes out, new engines...VW's offering...etc.
I would not be surprised if Lexus never achieves 70K RX330 sales per year, any year, for its production life. Nonetheless it will be successful. Not runaway hit though. |
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| vicpai |
........I would NEVER buy a first year vehicle. At one time the Japanese were immune to this "first year syndrome". At the most you would have some extremely minor "annoyances" that troubled first year models.
However, the Japanese brands are just not what they used to be. As far as the new RX 330 is concerned this gets EVEN WORSE. Not only are we talking about a first year model, but a new factory as well.......and to add yet another complication to this issue, it 's going to built outside of Japan, in North America for the first time!!!! :eek: . Considering all of that it wouldn't be wise to buy this one AT LEAST until the 3rd year in production!!! (if you're one of those that treasure the core values of reliability and dependability that are synonymous with Japanese brand names!) |
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| xcel |
Hi OceanMDX:
___I thought it would be out a little earlier but if it is Sept., that gives the Honda Engineers some time to spruce up the X for its 04 release. I just read the press release you linked and it appears that its April for the RX’s debut with initial production being supplied from Japan. Vicpai, there is a twist … Oh how I do love that RX’s interior! All except for the silver V control housing anyway. There just isn’t anything in the X that’s even close … Why oh why did Lexus decide this isn’t the vehicle for Soccer Mom’s and add that third row seat :(
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net |
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| wmquan |
| Some folks have already asked their Lexus dealers and have been told April/May for delivery. |
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| oceanMDX |
Production of the RX 330 will begin in Japan in a few months. Then production will shift to Canada (Cambridge, Ontario) by Sept.
I like what I see in the RX330 except the dark dash. Does anyone here know if this vehicle can be towed behind a motor home with all four wheels on the road? :confused: |
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| navybean |
| If the MDX gets to around 50000, I will go for the Lexus GX470, saw it at the LA auto show the GX470 looks great!!! But my, my the RX330 is but ugly!!!:eek: |
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| 2003MDX |
| looks Nice, and the lux level is much better than my X, but I still like my occasional used 3rd row seat......Will wait for 05 MDX... |
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