| EXCALIBUR |
Just ordered a 2002 Touring Wheel and Michelin Tire from Tim for use as a full size spare. Tim had the following recommendations with respect to tire rotation:
1) Rotate 4 tires vs. 5 tires.
2) Rotate the tires F to B vs. Cross.
3) Use the full size spare as a spare only.
4) When you need to buy 2 new tires, incorporate the full size spare, use the best of the two worn tires for your spare, and buy only 1 new tire.
Realizing there has been exhaustive discussions about tire rotation, I think Tim is "Da Man" and his recommendations make sense. Comments members?:) |
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| ByeByeChrysler |
sounds good to me.
I don't intend to use my full size spare in the rotation, plus it probably has more mileage than my own tires. |
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| DaleB |
I rotate all 5, and when it comes time for new tires I will maintain the least worn for a spare.
I figure there is always a chance the cross-terrain may not be around anymore anyhow. Or I may want a different replacement tire.
At least this way, I do extend the time before the swap has to happen. |
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| deltajetfixer |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
I rotate all 5, and when it comes time for new tires I will maintain the least worn for a spare.
I figure there is always a chance the cross-terrain may not be around anymore anyhow. Or I may want a different replacement tire.
At least this way, I do extend the time before the swap has to happen.
Hmmm...I seem to recall this being discussed about a year ago...oh well...
I don't have the Maintenance Schedule with me but I rotate the tires at every oil change (7500 miles).
As to your last paragraph, wouldn't you only extend your "swap" time by 7500 miles?
If a full-size spare is included in the rotation/replacement I think the advantage is that you KNOW what condition it's in as it's only 7500 miles older/younger than the other 4. You're also assured of it's proper pressure and lack of dry-rotting since it will follow the other 4 in their "duty-cycles". |
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| buhmabee |
quote:
Originally posted by EXCALIBUR
[Realizing there has been exhaustive discussions about tire rotation, I think Tim is "Da Man" and his recommendations make sense. Comments members?:) [/B]
Tim does know his chit. The way he rotates makes perfect sense. |
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| blerner |
| Only problem with saving the spare and buying only one tire, by the time you need new tires, the tire (spare) my not be available in the same tread design, then what. Get the spare in the rotation then when you need tires save the best for your spare. |
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| EXCALIBUR |
blerner,
It seems like the 5 tire rotation makes more and more sense. With all due respect to Tim, who I ordered my full size spare from, I think I will go with the 5 tire rotation when the time comes. |
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| theaviator |
| To where do you rotate the spare? My sense is to the right front. |
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| EXCALIBUR |
theaviator,
Check out this link originally provided by DaleB on 5 tire rotation: http://www.tiresafety.com/service/s....htm#5tirerotat
5 Tire Rotation
If the vehicle owner has a regular tire as a spare tire and wishes to include it in the tire rotation process, the proper procedure is to use the appropriate rotation pattern shown for 4 Tire Rotation, BUT insert the spare in the right rear position. Place the tire which would have gone to the right rear in the trunk as the new spare. Note: Never include a temporary spare tire in the rotation. Note: Unidirectional tread patterns must be rotated front-to-rear only so the direction of the revolution does not change. |
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| ardvarkus |
In my mind, there is a marginal financial benefit to a five tire roatation over 4 tires....
Let's look at a 100k mile vehicle life, with tires every 20k:
Initial inservice, purchase 5 tires-
Rotate every 100 miles (or whatever, just often enough so all are used):)
You will get 5x20k or 100k miles from these 5 tires, but you need 4 on at a time, so you will go 25 k miles...
So, you will need to buy 5 tires a total of Four times... or 20 tires to get to 100k.
Now assume you just keep a spare and don't rotate the spare:
Purchase 4 tires (PLUS ONE SPARE), drive them 20k miles, you'll need to buy tires every 20K or 5 sets of four tires...or 21 tires for 100k miles.
So the difference is one tire over the life of the vehicle.
Of course, if you simply use an old tire for a spare, and go to the 5 tire plan at the time of your first tire change, there is no extra spare to buy. Then, with each tire replacement take the 'best old tire' for the spare.
Kind of an 'angels on the head of a pin' question.
Ard
PS I've never had to buy two tires (well, since college).... if you are rotating and maintaining properly they all should wear out uniformly. |
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| JTM |
| hmm.. I wonder how big the difference will be. I put my full size spare into the rear left, instead of rear right. It is almost time for me to do the tire rotation again, only about 3xx miles before hitting 15000 mark. |
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| EXCALIBUR |
| Well, I originally liked the concept of having a full size spare vs. a doughnut, especially for an SUV like the MDX. That's why I purchased one. Then I got to thinking...4 tire rotation vs. 5 tire rotation. With the 4 tire rotation, it seems like such a waste to never use the "brand new" full size spare at all. That's close to $400 hanging under the rear of the MDX. Whether it gives marginal benefits or not, I think I will use a 5 tire rotation and thus get some use out of the full size spare. Doesn't that make sense? |
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| dbauchat |
http://www.tirerack.com/images/tr_ownersmanual.pdf
The address above is for the tirerack tire "owners manual", which has a lot of good information regarding tire care & maintenance.
Rotation info is on page 16. You will notice that they don't even discuss 5 tire rotation patterns. To maintain handling, it is important to "match" tires that have similar wear on the same axle (front or rear). Adding a "fifth" tire to the mix results in having unmatched (and therefore slightly different handling characteristics) tires on each axle. Granted, it may be tough to notice for most, but it doesn't optimize your vehicles handling.
Based on my experience (5 years of track testing for Ford) the data provided is very good. Hopefully, others will find it useful.
dave |
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| DaleB |
I don't have all the links, but all the major tire companies say if you do a 5 tire rotation only change the spare with the right rear.
The only significant difference in wear pattern is between front and rear tires. You will be addressing that with a 5 tire rotation as well as a 4 tire rotation.
An omission by Tire Rack does not constitute a condemnation. Besides I would trust a tire manfucaturer's recommendation as much if not more than a reseller.
In their business, Tire Rack is mostly concerened with clients who by sets of 4.
Ard, is right. The extra life is not that 'great' but every bit helps. And if the particular design is no longer available, you will not be forced to sell or trade the spare you have been saving. Or stay with the F/S spare, which will rot to some extent over the years. If you don't plan to keep your X beyond a few years, or until the termination of a lease, all this discussion is likely academdic. Anything you decide to do is probably just fine. |
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| EXCALIBUR |
DaleB,
I agree with you on all points. I just installed my FS spare and cover today. I will do a 5 tire rotation in a month or so when my MDX hits 7,500 miles. |
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| BaldEagle |
Just rotated for the first time since getting my full sized spare and went with the 5 tire rotation for two reasons:
1. Like Dale said it may be difficult to find matching tires at replacement time.
2. At 12000 miles per year that spare tire will be 5 or 6 years old before used even though it has never turned one mile on the road. Tread may be new but the sidewall rubber deteriorates with age. After 3 or 4 more years that tire will be 8 to 10 years old in spite of having plenty of usable tread. It is recommend on boat trailers and RV's to replace tires 6 to 8 years regardless of miles. |
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| DaleB |
| I am not sure how many more miles it will add, but even if only 7500 as deltajetfixer suggested, that could be another 6 to 12 months before going for a new set I don't think that is insignificant. |
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| mdxxxx |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
I am not sure how many more miles it will add, but even if only 7500 as deltajetfixer suggested, that could be another 6 to 12 months before going for a new set I don't think that is insignificant.
Alright... alright, I guess I'm convinced now.... Of cource, I just had the tires rotated last week. :rolleyes: |
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| EXCALIBUR |
mdxxxx,
Way to go. Get that FSS into the rotation "game." You will get better tread life out of all five tires. With the money you save, you will be able to buy more accessories for your MDX.:29: |
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| BaldEagle |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
I am not sure how many more miles it will add, but even if only 7500 as deltajetfixer suggested, that could be another 6 to 12 months before going for a new set I don't think that is insignificant.
7500 miles sound too low to me. A few members have mentioned going 60000 miles plus on 4 tires before needing replacement. If my algebra formula is correct (rarely used what I learned about 30 years ago) I come up with about 15000 extra miles.
60000 over 4 = X over 5 = 75000.
When doing the rotation I weighed the donut and the regular tire and rim. Donut = 35 pounds, full sized = 55 pounds.
Also when doing the rotation it was obvious that the lug nuts were not torqued the last time my Honda dealer rotated. I used a torgue wrench, however, it broke before I finished the first tire. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by BaldEagle
7500 miles sound too low to me. A few members have mentioned going 60000 miles plus on 4 tires before needing replacement. If my algebra formula is correct (rarely used what I learned about 30 years ago) I come up with about 15000 extra miles.
60000 over 4 = X over 5 = 75000.
When doing the rotation I weighed the donut and the regular tire and rim. Donut = 35 pounds, full sized = 55 pounds.
Also when doing the rotation it was obvious that the lug nuts were not torqued the last time my Honda dealer rotated. I used a torgue wrench, however, it broke before I finished the first tire.
With a 4 tire rotation, each tire is taking on 25% of the TOTAL wear. With a 5 tire rotation, each tire is taking on 20% of the TOTAL wear.
That's reducing the wear load if you will, by 5% per each tire. Or 25% LESS wear.
Yes, 15000 for 60,000 miles. But if you only got 40,000 miles normally you would only increase it by 10,000, or up to 50,000 miles. |
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| EXCALIBUR |
DaleB,
Q: Haven't reached that point yet...but assuming a 5 tire rotation using the FSS...when it comes time to replace all 5 tires...what do you recommend?
Q: Keep one worn tire and use it for the FSS, then going to a 4 tire rotation leaving the FSS out of the rotation?
Q: Buy five new tires and continue to use the 5 tire rotation?
Inquiring minds would like to know.:confused: |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by EXCALIBUR
DaleB,
Q: Haven't reached that point yet...but assuming a 5 tire rotation using the FSS...when it comes time to replace all 5 tires...what do you recommend?
Q: Keep one worn tire and use it for the FSS, then going to a 4 tire rotation leaving the FSS out of the rotation?
Q: Buy five new tires and continue to use the 5 tire rotation?
Inquiring minds would like to know.:confused:
I think it all depends on how long you plan to keep the X. If you plan to keep on trucking, I would buy a full 5 agan. As long as we believe in the concept of a FSS why not?
Unless you don't plan to keep it that long to make it worthwhile then use the best spare available from the 'old 5'.
If a 'better' tire is available maybe go with that, but 4 or 5? Again, back to how long I expect to keep the car.
There would be nothing wrong going with 5 again, like those of us did with the FSS. |
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| EXCALIBUR |
DaleB,
Thank for you reply and very good answers. I plan to keep my MDX 10 years or longer, so the 5 tire rotation still makes sense.:29: |
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| BaldEagle |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
With a 4 tire rotation, each tire is taking on 25% of the TOTAL wear. With a 5 tire rotation, each tire is taking on 20% of the TOTAL wear.
That's reducing the wear load if you will, by 5% per each tire. Or 25% LESS wear.
Yes, 15000 for 60,000 miles. But if you only got 40,000 miles normally you would only increase it by 10,000, or up to 50,000 miles.
Unless there is an alignment problem or hard driving conditions 60000 miles is low for a tire with a treadwear rating of 420. In 1979 I got a new Company car. The original Firestones wore out at 30000 miles. Replaced with Sears Roadhandlers (Michelin) and those tires were still on that car three years later, over 130000 miles on the odometer, when I got a new one. |
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| Markedoc |
| Re: rotation - I plan on doing a 4 tire rotation, front-to-back. Does anyone do this themselves? I was thinking about using a floor jack and the jack supplied with the car the lift one side of the car up and rotate both tires, using blocks on the other side to keep the car from shifting back or forward. Is this a good method (vs. using the spare in the process)? Or is it too much weight on the factory supplied jack? |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by Markedoc
Re: rotation - I plan on doing a 4 tire rotation, front-to-back. Does anyone do this themselves? I was thinking about using a floor jack and the jack supplied with the car the lift one side of the car up and rotate both tires, using blocks on the other side to keep the car from shifting back or forward. Is this a good method (vs. using the spare in the process)? Or is it too much weight on the factory supplied jack?
Sounds a bit percarious to me. And possibly dangerous. Since you don't plan to use the spare in the rotation, you might use it as a 'placeholder' while you lower one corner and raise another.
In such cases I use only 3 bolts firmly in place. It is not necessary to to fully torque them to 80 ft lbs.
I also would stick with a good hydraulic floor jack. I prefer a 3 ton but 2 1/2 at a minimum. I use the car jack for what it is really designed for, emergencies. Technically, you should always block the wheel in the opposite corner of the one you are raising. Most people just crank hard on the emergency brake and move on. I've done the same, and it is probably ok, but not the safest thing to do. Of course no matter what jack, never get under the vehicle without jack stands or ramps.
The surface you are working on is a factor too. |
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| evoge |
Jack stands, jack stands, jack stands.
To rotate my tires and lift the entire vehicle to have access to all four tires, I put one end of the X on jack stands and raise the other end with a good floor jack. If I need to get under or work near the vehicle, I use four jack stands.
The factory jack is for roadside emergencies only. |
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| Markedoc |
Yeah, you guys are right. Local garage, $10 or $15 - whatever for a tire rotation. Whatever I spend, it's going to be a small fraction of what my dealer would charge.
Note to self: buy jack stands next time I go to Sears. |
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| evoge |
While you're at it, get an 80 ftlb torque wrench and a 19mm deep-well socket to fit. Proper torque settings are a good idea for alloy wheels and essential when tightening oil drain plugs, etc.
"Every new project is an excuse to buy more tools." :) |
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| Markedoc |
| Hehehe - got those last year - I NEVER need an excuse to buy tools! I went to Sears to buy a new socket set and come out with a 254 piece Mechanic's set! |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by evoge
"Every new project is an excuse to buy more tools." :)
Nah!!!!!! No way!! :D |
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| Allen Cichanski |
I do my own tire rotation mainly because it doesn't take very long, it allows me to check the brake pads at each wheel, and especially because I've have brake disc warping problems in the past when the wheels have been incorrectly torqued (usually so over tightened that the disc was warped and the lug nuts were impossible to remove). I've never had a full sized spare.
I think the simplest and fastest way to do it is to use two jacks (I have a TL as well as the MDX and the jacks are identical) and lift each side of the car and exchange the tires front to back. After another 7500 miles I lift each end of the car and exchange right to left. Next time its another front to back exchange. After 30,000 miles each tire has been at each corner and finally back to its original position. While each tire is off the car I can give it a thorough inspection for nails and cuts, etc. and clean the inside of the wheel. Doing it this way, I've never had a set of Michelins (many different models of tires on different cars) last less than 60K miles. |
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