| Solid |
| I purchased an oil filter from Tim for my MDX 2002, also purchased oil filter from Honda dealer for my Accord 1996 and the filter is exactly the same for both cars, which is fine but I just want to confirm if anyone knows that they really uses the same filter. Thanks. |
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| TheWorm |
| yup - the Honda filter fits a bunch of the models. |
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| rvehock |
quote:
Originally posted by Solid
I purchased an oil filter from Tim for my MDX 2002, also purchased oil filter from Honda dealer for my Accord 1996 and the filter is exactly the same for both cars, which is fine but I just want to confirm if anyone knows that they really uses the same filter. Thanks.
Yep the filters that I get from Tim fits my MDX, my wifes 3.2 TL, and my son's 1996 Civic EX:4: :4: :4: |
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| tommyleon |
Anybody know who makes the filters for Acura/Honda?
Tom |
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| SonShine |
| I believe I saw a thread on this somewhere (maybe on s2ki.com:p ), but I thought others had stated they were similar or identical to Frams... |
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| catzx6 |
quote:
Anybody know who makes the filters for Acura/Honda?
On the filter I just bought for my '03, it says "MANUFACTURED BY FRAM" right on the filter. BTW, the filter is completely different for the '03 compared to the '01-'02. Part #15400-PLM-A01 or A02. |
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| tommyleon |
Hi Catzx6:Thanks for the headsup on the filter manufacture.I can get those thru one of the WDs that I call on.
Tom:4: |
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| RealWing |
I have been doing some research on filters for Honda's (my wife's Accord) and was surprised and disaapointed to find out that Honda Canada filters were made by Fram. I found this info at http://www.ntpog.org/reviews/filters/filters.shtml . I knew that the quality of Fram filters was very poor and could not believe that Honda would use them. I decided to see for myself and cut open 11 different filters. This is what the Honda Canada filter looks like inside. (Fram on the left) Good design features are:
1. Silicone rubber anti-drain back valve for good low temperature sealing
2. high quality "O Ring" type gasket seal
Poor features are:
1. paper end caps on filter element
2. Plastic relief valve that does not seal completely
3. Relief valve "seals" against the paper end cap and allows bypass flow
4. The Anti drain back valve also "seals" against the paper end cap.
My conclusion - I'm not using Honda Canada's filter!!!! |
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| RealWing |
| This is the filter base and sealing ring |
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| RealWing |
| This shows the orange anti-drain back valve. |
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| Will4271 |
| I wonder what a better filter than the Honda one? ;) |
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| RealWing |
| This is the plastic relief valve |
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| RealWing |
This is the filter that was installed by the factory on my wife's 2003 Accord (made in Ohio) 'm not sure if it is the same as what you buy over the counter in USA or not. Appears to have a very large filtration area. The relief valve has a metal to metal seal and may allow some minor bypass flow. It is completely different than the Honda Canada filter.
When I get my new MDX, I will remove the filter and cut it open as well to see if the originally installed filter is the same as the over-the-couter one in Canada.
48 pleats in filter cartridge. Pleat depth is 0.500
Cartridge height 2.430 |
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| RealWing |
| This is the relief valve assembly |
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| RealWing |
| Another shot of the relief valve |
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| RealWing |
This is a view inside the filter element.
Many holes in inner metal support for good flow. |
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| RealWing |
| As you can see - this filter is very similar to the Honda Canada filter. |
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| RealWing |
| Cardboard end caps on filter element and plastic relief valve assembly. The relief valve assembly "seals" against the cardboard end cap. This poor seal will allow dirty oil to bypass. |
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| RealWing |
| This view is with the relief valve disassembled. The plastic poppet has small moulding flashings that prevent a positive seal and thus will allow some bypass flow of dirty oil. |
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| RealWing |
| This shows the oil inlet flow holes and the orange silicone anti drain back valve. |
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| RealWing |
| This filter has a black nitrile rubber anti drain back valve. It is not as pliable as the orange silicone rubber diaphragms at low temperatures. |
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| RealWing |
| another view of the inlet. and anti drain back valve |
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| RealWing |
| The relief valve in this filter has a white plastic poppet. It has similar moulding flashings to the black one that will allow some bypass flow. |
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| RealWing |
| This is the filter element that has the same cardboard end caps. Fram advertizes 96% single pass (SAE test # HS806) efficiency and 94% multi-pass efficiency (SAE test # J1858) |
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| RealWing |
| This is an internal view. Notice that there are very few holes and they are widely spaced. This is not the best design for even oil flow distribution. |
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| RealWing |
This filter has the black nitrile rubber anti drain back valve.
Purolator advertizes 96% Multi Pass Efficiency based on the SAE test. |
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| RealWing |
| Filter element with quality metal end caps. This element appears to have a large filtration surface area with 62 pleats. |
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| RealWing |
| This is the bypass relief valve in the center. It is made from some kind of rough phenolic and does not seal completely and thus will allow some dirty oil to bypass the filter. |
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| RealWing |
| This is an internal shot. The relief valve is at the top. Note this filter has many holes and they are well distributed |
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| RealWing |
| Amsoil advertizes 94% efficiency based on SAE HS806 test. |
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| RealWing |
Amsoil appears to use a "depth" type filter element material which should do a much better job of filtration that simple paper elements.
7 inlet holes at 0.250 diameter.
Nitrile anti drain back diaphragm (not as good as silicone )
Very strong compression spring.
43 pleats on filter cartridge. Pleat depth is 0.525
Cartridge height is 2.1 |
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| RealWing |
| Internal view. Relief valve at the top. Many, well distributed flow holes. |
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| RealWing |
| Relief valve has a metal-to-metal sealing surface. |
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| RealWing |
Cartridge has metal end caps.
40 pleats in filter cartridge. Pleat depth is 0.700.
Cartridge height 1.8 |
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| RealWing |
| This is the outside view of the relief valve. It as the best sealing design I've seen so far. It is a rubber agains meatl for positively no bypass flow. |
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| RealWing |
| Internal view. Many holes in metal inner support to allow good flow area. |
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| RealWing |
Closeup of anti drainback valve. Nitrile anti-drainback valve. Note raised and rounded sealing surface. Should seal very well.
Rubber to metal end cap seal will not allow bypass. |
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| RealWing |
| This appears to be a relatively new filter from Fram as I havent seen it before. As you can see it is a completely different design and should be much better than the other Fram's. - at about 3 times the price!!! It has meatl end caps on the elemnet and silicone anti drain back valve. |
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| RealWing |
I'm not sure whether the filter element is a "depth" type or not. It does appear to be a depth type. The filter material is supported on the back with a metal screen.
35 pleats. Pleat depth is 0.470. Filter cartridge height is 1.95
Advertized as 96% single pass efficiency Per SAE HS806 testing of XG8A at Honeywell Test Laboratory. 10 to 20 micron contaminant |
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| RealWing |
| Unfortunately Fram still used the same plastic poppet type relief valve that passes. |
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| RealWing |
| Another poor feature is that there are few oil holes in the inner support. This does not allow good flow distribution. |
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| RealWing |
Can thickness 0.014
6 inlet holes at 0.275 diameter
Very strong spring on top of filter cartridge |
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| RealWing |
Silicone anti drain back seal. Seals against metal on filter can. Should be no leakage.
Filter cartridge has 49 pleats. Filter height is 1.9 with pleat depth of 0.450 |
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| RealWing |
Large internal support flow holes. Good flow area.
Relief valve assembly visible at top. |
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| RealWing |
| Rough finish phenolic relief valve poppet. Seals against steel cartridge cover. Vacuum test indicates leakage. |
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| RealWing |
| Axial view showing annular gap for oil flow into the filter element. |
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| RealWing |
Can thickness 0.024. K&N advertises 550PSI burst strength.
Can has nut for easy removal and a hole to lock wire the filter for racing. |
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| RealWing |
Rounded inlet seal (similar to Bosch)
1 inlet hole at 0.312 diameter and 4 @ 0.250 (same as Bosch) |
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| RealWing |
Many holes in inner support for good flow area and distribution.
Relief valve visible at top. |
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| RealWing |
Nitrile rubber anti drain back valve. Note raised o-ring type seal at edge for improved sealing. This is also similar to Bosch.
Filter cartridge has 49 pleats with a depth of 0.665. Filter element height is 1.8.
The manufacturer claims 90% efficiency on package, but no SAE test is referenced. |
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| RealWing |
| Rubber seal on relief valve for positive seal. Strong relief valve spring. |
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| RealWing |
| Axial view showing annular space for oil flow into the filter element. |
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| RealWing |
One of my neighbours wondered what the inside of a Toyota filter looks like - so I got one to cut it open. The filter element is completely different than any other I've seen.
Can thickness 0.015
Nitrile anti drain-back valve. |
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| RealWing |
8 inlet holes @0.2 diameter
Seal has rounded cross section for better seal. |
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| RealWing |
Filter element fits very tight into the can. There is very little area for oil flow to the element. The oil must either flow between the can and the element or down the small slots to gain access to the filter element material.
One section of element end cap cut away to show pleats. |
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| RealWing |
Anti drain-back valve has raised lip for better seal.
Filter element height is 1.9
Filter element diameter is 2.4 |
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| RealWing |
| Fewer holes than most filters. Restricted flow area. |
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| RealWing |
Oil flow appears to be as follows:
1. make a right angle turn into the slots and
2. then another right angle turn to flow tangentially through the filter pleats and
3. then another turn to flow radially inwards through another slot and
4. then through the inner holes and another right angle turn to the outlet.
The pleats are packed very close together. (I've cut one section open to show the internal filter pleats.) |
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| RealWing |
Relief valve assembly. Unique spring design. Metal-to-metal seal.
The valve does not seal completely and will allow bypass of dirty oil. |
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| paul123 |
Excellents posting and pictures! What's your personal conclusions on the best to the worst?
I believe the Factory to be the best followed by the Bosch, then Fram in 3rd. |
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| RealWing |
It is very difficult to know which is the "best". They all appear to have some design deficiencies. The bigest thing lacking are the certified SAE tests for single and muti pass efficiency. (ie how efficient are they at removing 10-20 micron sized particles) based upon some internet info - the ones that dont advertize efficiencies could be as low as 75% efficient.
As for the USA "factory" Honda filter - who knows about the efficiency. Honda certainly does!!! Without that info, how is a consumer to know? The other major concern about Honda filters is that they can go out and ask for new bids on filters at any time- and you may get something entirely different the next time.
I've personaly switched to Amsoil. Bosch may be very good - but again depends on efficiency. I would like to get a Mobil 1, but havent found one here in Ontario yet.
It seems incredible to me that someone has not gathered the best design features of all of them into one filter!!!!
Here are some other references:
http://home.planet.nl/~Jennit/Techn...FilterStudy.pdf
http://www.frankhunt.com/FRANK/corv...ilterstudy.html
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/...7/oilfilst.html
http://www.mr2.com/TEXT/oil_filter_test.html |
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| mgmdx |
The Oil Filter Review that was previously discussed in another thread on this site describes Honda OEM filter deficiencies as follows:
1. Author's evaluation of a Honda filter (made in Canada) indicates that "This filter, though, when opened, is identical in construction to a Fram. Same "fuzzy" media, dent from string in media, glued cardboard end caps, bypass valve...".
2. Author's evaluation of a Honda filter (made in USA) further notes that "The US media looks much, much worse than the Fram. The media is noticeably "fuzzy" with small fibers protruding out from every angle. ...the furry nature of the media makes me question how long it lasts and what it will release into the oil system."
If the highest perceived quality filter is what people are looking for, then Honda filter is certainly not the answer. I think what's more important than the oil filter brand used is the reasonable and consistent maintenance interval.
As with any other products, using specific oil and filter brand is a matter of personal preference. I have been using Fram filters on all my cars for the past 20+ years without any problems at all. One of my past cars ('77 280Z) went for over 200,000 miles with regular oil change intervals (using Fram) before I decided to sell it. So for me, Fram works fine. |
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| tommyleon |
I'm in the Automotive aftermarket,but DON"T rep.or work for an oil filter company.I have heard thru the years about the cotton filled filters from Hastings.I used to hear alot about the merits of these(rumor had it that thats what Amsoil was using) filters,but not much lately.Any comments,knowledge etc about these?If the Honda filters are not that great then what should we be using?
Thanks,
Tom:4: |
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| DaleB |
I find it an interesting topic. But we get into so much detail about what makes a good oil filter.
What about all those other vehicles you owned years ago? Did any with many miles on them have problems due to excessive contamination in the oil resulting in excessive wear, or scored cylinders, etc. ?
I doubt it. I agree, this is not an inexpensive vehicle and you want to give the best, but I think it 's a bit over the top when I stop and think about it. |
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| SonShine |
Agreed - it probably doesn't make a HUGE difference which filter we use. But, I will likely go with the Mobil 1 filter when I make the switch to synthetic at our next oil change.
I did this with my S2000 and I'm happy so far.
Will the extra cost be justified? Who knows...but like DaleB said, in comparison to the cost of the vehicle, it's probably worth the peace of mind even if it's "over the top"
:p |
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| Dale MDX |
Just something to keep in mind: Remember the old VW Beetles? No spin-on oil filter at all. The ones I've seen/owned had a "rock stopper" screen in the system, and an oil-bath type of contaminant removal system. The engines lasted quite a while, without good filtration. I think they died more commonly from deficiencies related to air cooling than from wear caused by contaminants.
I also suspect that we all change our oil filters much more often than would really be necessary. Just what is really floating around in the oil, given the sealed engine design, that the filter is catching? Not much. But I'll still change my filter at every oil change. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by Dale MDX
Just something to keep in mind: Remember the old VW Beetles? No spin-on oil filter at all. The ones I've seen/owned had a "rock stopper" screen in the system, and an oil-bath type of contaminant removal system. The engines lasted quite a while, without good filtration. I think they died more commonly from deficiencies related to air cooling than from wear caused by contaminants.
I also suspect that we all change our oil filters much more often than would really be necessary. Just what is really floating around in the oil, given the sealed engine design, that the filter is catching? Not much. But I'll still change my filter at every oil change.
One thing that helped the VDubs were large clearances, and a simple valve train configuration. |
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| RealWing |
I agree that lots of older engines ran just fine on whatever filter you used. I've built many racing engines and street engines that had typical bearing clearances of 0.002" (50 micron) to 0.003" (76 micron) that never had any problems.
However I think that todays engines are less tolerant of these large size particles in the oil. Todays engines have bearing clearances of half of the above. Also think about all the small plungers etc in our lovely VTEC engine valvetrain. I dont have my service manual yet, but suspect that some clearances are in the order of 0.0005" (13 Micron)
For long life, I know that I want very good oil filtration!! |
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| tommyleon |
Doesn't most internal "sludge"come from within.I think a chemical action occurs when oil is chemically altered by water,fuel,breaking into the molecules in the oil and causing sludge.Heat and cold also play a huge factor in this chemical action.Short distance driving where the condensation and fuel is not allowed to evaporate/burn off is a MAJOR culprit!I think this is where syns shine as their molecules have been "tweaked"hardened,sized etc thus making the molecules in the oil harder to impregnate.Thus no breakdown or less breakdown.
I have actually noticed an RPM increase by just switching to Synthetics.
I agree most oil filters are suitable for todays engines.I think however,that like all things made some are better than others.Consumers Report or someone has probably rated the most popular brands?
I do know that any vehicle with 15,000 or 20,000 miles of intown driving will run better by simply pulling the "boot" back from the throttle body and cleaning the "butterfly"area(where a gum ring forms) with a good Throttle Plate Cleaner.NOT Carb cleaner.
Tom:4: |
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| inky |
Honda Acura went to new 7000 series Fram very small filter 2 11/16 inch. I have a bunch of the old 3593 series Fram and MOBIL One 104's. Will they work?
Jim |
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| RealWing |
| As long as the gasket diameter is the same- they will work |
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| adam2222 |
RealWing
So you have decided on the Amsoil Super Duty SDF20 for the MDX?
Any recommendations on the best place/ price to get them?
Thanks for your exhaustive research. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by RealWing
Also think about all the small plungers etc in our lovely VTEC engine valvetrain. I dont have my service manual yet, but suspect that some clearances are in the order of 0.0005" (13 Micron)
For long life, I know that I want very good oil filtration!!
Interestingly, they don't spec the plungers, except for 'finger test' to ensure they move smoothly. The piston pin is spec'd down to 0.0004" Closest one I could fine.
Not so sure close tolerances are anything new considering how long sophisticated valve systems have been around esp. on european (Alfa, BMW, Ferrari, etc.) and some Japanese vehicles. From what I recall, hydraulic lifters on domestics have very tight tolerances, and were senstive to varnish build-up and other bad things especially if regular oil changes were not the routine. But better formulation of lubricants seemed to solve that problem. Rarely ever hear the ol' ticking of a stuck lifter anymore.
The Mobil filter has my interest though, especially the increased capacity.
Regular changes and well sealed lubrication and air intake systems should keep out any 'boulders'. :) |
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| RealWing |
I've decided on the Amsoil at this point for both my wife's Accord and my MDX (same filter)
I ordered them on-line from Amsoil. I also signed up as a "Preferred Customer" to get discounted dealer prices. |
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| JimH |
Inky:
The Mobile-1 104 or Mobile-1 105 filters work in the 2002 MDX. Assume they would in the 2003 MDX. |
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| Curtsan |
Just wondering about the comment earlier in this thread....
Where it mentions that 03 is defferent than 02/01?
I bought a 6-pack of filters from Tim well before I had my '03....Didn't even think to ask about using them on the 03??? Just assumed that since engine was basically the same, filters would fit, especially since Honda uses the same filters in many applications across the board. I haven't had to change oil yet, but can some one confirm the 02 part number and 03 part number and tell me if only the 03 filter will work on my 03 X? Maybe I would need to do an exchange with Tim? Also, I read one thing in my manual, and got another message from dealer, but what is the correct time/mileagae to change the initial oil it came with from factory? Is this the same time for rear transaxle? I've searched and come up with tonnes of varrying opinions...Thanks... |
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| inky |
The new small filter is interchangable with the old big filter. Just a stupid cost savings idea from Honda.
Honda put out a tech bulleting in Sept that I read and states both filters are OK. Check with your Honda dealer ./Acura dealer if you like.
I use mobil M104 some use bigger M105. I do not like the tiny little new FILTECH filter HOnda uses on all. |
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| Todd03MDX |
Curtsan, have you found answers to your questions? If so, please post them. I have a 2003 also. Regarding when to change the initial oil it came with from factory, I found the following:
"On all Acuras (except SLX), the original oil contains additives that protect the engine during its break-in period. These additives aren't in over-the-counter oils, so change the oil at the recommended mileage/time interval, not before."
I found this at http://www.acuraofmissionviejo.com/...news/1996i1.asp .
So this is why I'm waiting to change the oil for the 1st time until 7,500 miles. I'm going by the book on this one.
Conventional wisdom is to change the oil every 3,000 miles (and even sooner for the 1st time), but every automotive owner's manual I've ever seen says to change the oil every 7,500 miles. Is waiting 7,500 just fine and more frequently is just the oil companies trying to increase sales and thus unnecessary?
Looking at the Owner's Manual, the VTM-4 rear differential fluid should be changed at 15k, 30k, then not again until 60k. Regarding the first change at 15k, it says, "Necessary for proper break-in of the VTM-4 rear differential." I wonder if that means you must change it by 15k or don't do it before 15k.
BTW, I just found this site this evening. Glad I did. It's just like 3si.org where I go for my 3000GT VR4. |
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| paul123 |
quote:
Originally posted by Todd03MDX
Curtsan, have you found answers to your questions? If so, please post them. I have a 2003 also. Regarding when to change the initial oil it came with from factory, I found the following:
"On all Acuras (except SLX), the original oil contains additives that protect the engine during its break-in period. These additives aren't in over-the-counter oils, so change the oil at the recommended mileage/time interval, not before."
I found this at http://www.acuraofmissionviejo.com/...news/1996i1.asp .
So this is why I'm waiting to change the oil for the 1st time until 7,500 miles. I'm going by the book on this one.
Conventional wisdom is to change the oil every 3,000 miles (and even sooner for the 1st time), but every automotive owner's manual I've ever seen says to change the oil every 7,500 miles. Is waiting 7,500 just fine and more frequently is just the oil companies trying to increase sales and thus unnecessary?
Looking at the Owner's Manual, the VTM-4 rear differential fluid should be changed at 15k, 30k, then not again until 60k. Regarding the first change at 15k, it says, "Necessary for proper break-in of the VTM-4 rear differential." I wonder if that means you must change it by 15k or don't do it before 15k.
BTW, I just found this site this evening. Glad I did. It's just like 3si.org where I go for my 3000GT VR4.
I totally disagree with this train of thought. Im my opinion the break in period is only for the first 1000 miles on a vehicle. The engine when assembled has break in lube put on all vital components. That's why it so important not to exceed the 55 miles per hour speed and to vary rpm's when driving. Once the 1000 miles is hit, I feel that should be the first oil change to rid the engine of the break in lube and any small metal particles. Then I stick to the 3000 miles or 3 months oil change going forward. I agree with the rear differential changes you stated.
There are many different thoughts on this topic, I prefer to stick to the old fashion way. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by paul123
I totally disagree with this train of thought. Im my opinion the break in period is only for the first 1000 miles on a vehicle. The engine when assembled has break in lube put on all vital components. That's why it so important not to exceed the 55 miles per hour speed and to vary rpm's when driving. Once the 1000 miles is hit, I feel that should be the first oil change to rid the engine of the break in lube and any small metal particles. Then I stick to the 3000 miles or 3 months oil change going forward. I agree with the rear differential changes you stated.
There are many different thoughts on this topic, I prefer to stick to the old fashion way.
I agree. You can't go wrong varying the RPMs within a safe range by just choosing a lower gear. But I also like after the 'safe' period, running it fast up to about 75, not full bore acceleration, then coast down to 45 and repeat this several times. It is to help seat the rings quicker. In the old days it would do that by sucking more fuel past the rings on deceleration. With modern fuel injection I think the fuel just turns off. Vary speeds, not lugging or over revving, and letting it warm up gradually when cold and while driving it not idling, have been the rules I follow. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by paul123
I totally disagree with this train of thought. Im my opinion the break in period is only for the first 1000 miles on a vehicle. The engine when assembled has break in lube put on all vital components. That's why it so important not to exceed the 55 miles per hour speed and to vary rpm's when driving. Once the 1000 miles is hit, I feel that should be the first oil change to rid the engine of the break in lube and any small metal particles. Then I stick to the 3000 miles or 3 months oil change going forward. I agree with the rear differential changes you stated.
There are many different thoughts on this topic, I prefer to stick to the old fashion way.
I agree. You can't go wrong varying the RPMs within a safe range by just choosing a lower gear.
Vary speeds, not lugging or over revving, and letting it warm up gradually when cold and while driving it not idling, have been the rules I follow. |
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| cumminspuller |
| I am new here....Just mostly read about what you experienced guys have to say. As RealWing has stated about his switch to Amsoil's filters. I have been using them on our 92' Accord EX Coupe for 165,000 miles. I also found when I started using their filters that using their 10w-30 synthetic oil that you only have to change the oil every 25,000 miles or one year. And the SDF20 Filter every 6-months. Well I have been doing that for 165,000 miles now and not one problem. Their preferred customer program is well worth it. Here is the website I get mine through www.synthetic-solutions.biz in case some of you haven't been able to find a dealer. I am curious why the Amsoil filter over the Bosch filter? It seemed the Bosch was a bit better. I may have read it wrong. Just curious what your reasoning was RealWing. |
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| RealWing |
| I went with the Amsoil only because I dont have any solid technical data on the Bosch filtration capability. I dont know if it has a "depth" media or what efficency it has. Otherwise it looks like a very good design. |
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| cumminspuller |
| Thanks for the reply.....I was just curious on your thoughts. With 165,000 on our Accord I will stick with the SDF20. It has treated me good so far, and the technical data provided by amsoil appears to be solid. Thanks again. |
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| paul123 |
quote:
Originally posted by whynotmdx
What about this?
http://www.trasko-usa.com/trasko.htm
I would never even try that! Never believed in those scams.
Cost exceeds the benefit, better of changing more often, and replacing oil. I'm an old fashion person when it comes to changing the oil. Old School. |
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| tommyleon |
| I about sh-- when I saw the cost of this bad boy.I think this is a major overkill.I might try one for $20.00,but $78.00 these folks need a new "crack" dealer.The bottom line is regular changes will allow the engine to run longer than I want to keep the vehicle!! |
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| whynotmdx |
I am surprised at the negative responses here.
$58 for the housing, $10 for each media change, $78 gets your the housing and two sets of media.
You still change oil regularly, still change the filter, the claim is just that the filter cleans much better and the oil stays amber in color instead of turning a dark brown.
With all the discussion of filters, complaints about cardboard end caps, plastic poppets, etc. I expected a device that looks as robust as this to get a better response.
Less than $100 bucks doesn't seem to bad to me, I think I might give one a try. Perhaps on my 1994 Trooper first.... |
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| paul123 |
quote:
Originally posted by whynotmdx
I am surprised at the negative responses here.
$58 for the housing, $10 for each media change, $78 gets your the housing and two sets of media.
You still change oil regularly, still change the filter, the cl | | | |
