| Sir P |
| well this is definitelly not the same part that we saw in the prior post. another mistery |
|
|
| hsj |
| I'll call my dealer when I come back, but definitely this is different. What matters the most is that I don't have the noise from that very moment. Drove around 100 miles since then, same conditions. |
|
|
| Tispco |
All --
HSJ's all rubber piece is the isolator from next hanger down from the one I took out (the earlier picture of the rubber and metal bracket). It would also be easier to remove. No tools needed, just crawl under and pull it off. By removing either one of the hangers, it would further isolate the exhaust system from the body of the car and not allow the exhaust vibration to travel into the car. Based on the recent posts to this thread, it seems like it does not matter which hanger you remove as long as one is gone or modified. I would try removing the all rubber one first and see if that does the trick. Stretching it or slicing it lengthwise would make for a softer connection between the body and exhaust, possibly eliminating the drone. I will play around with both over the weekend and let everyone know what I find out. |
|
|
| ELP_JC |
That sounds great Tispco. I was under the impression no rubber hanger would transmit vibration; so much for that theory. I thought there was a solid piece of rubber bolted to the frame, and the exhaust was resting against it.
In this case, I think we should just remove the material from the middle (as suggested) making it softer, but then it might be the same as just removing it altogether, right? As long as the downpipe and mufflers are not exerting downward pressure on the manifolds, we shouldn't have any problem.
For the weekend warriors here, let's pay attention WHERE the brackets are attached (sub-frames don't transfer vibrations); this should tell us which (or if both) is transmitting vibrations to the cabin.
Have a great weekend guys. We're almost THERE.
JC |
|
|
| Tispco |
I got under my X and put the front hanger back in and took out the main muffler hanger a little bit further back and took it for a spin. Same solution. No more drone. Put both back in and the drone returns.
The attached picture is of the two hangers / isolators that the dealers are removing. Removing one or the other will eliminate the drone. The front hanger (the one that bolts on) supports the flex (braided pipe) section in the exhaust system. Removing it will add stress to the flex section. The other hanger is attached to the front on the main muffler under the car. Removing it will stress the welds around the converter and mufflers. With this muffler hanger removed, there is no support for the exhaust except at the front and at the tailpipes. My opinion is that if you are going to remove one, remove the front one, NOT the main muffler hanger.
I decided to remove some of the rubber from the main muffler hanger and then put 1/4 inch spacers in the front hanger. I did this by sandwiching three washers at each bolt between the frame and hanger. The spacers lowered the bracket and it was not pulling up on the exhaust pipe as hard (stretching it basically). This eliminated the drone and I still have the exhaust system properly supported. |
|
|
| Tispco |
| The attached picture is my modified main muffler hanger. I cut out half the rubber on each side. This made the hanger more flexible and less likely to transmit vibration. |
|
|
| Tispco |
| This is a picture of the front exhaust hanger bolted in the X. The skid plate / cross member is removed already in this picture. |
|
|
| Tispco |
| This is the main muffler hanger / isolator. It is further back on the exhaust system. Under the X, it is approximately at the rear doors on the passenger side. |
|
|
| Tispco |
I hope this explanation and associated pictures are useful to everyone. I am very happy to have the drone gone :D
I found the picture below interesting. This is the exhaust pipe in front of the main muffler. You can see in the picture the thick chunk of steel welded onto the pipe. This is to help eliminate the drone. The chunk of metal changes the resonance of the pipe and it is 'suppose to' eliminate the drone. As we know, this is not the case in all of our X's. But, it is good to see Acura is working on the problem. |
|
|
| Sir P |
Thzanks so much for posting detailed illustrated explanation.
I do hope Acura will have replacement redesigned hangers shipping soon to the dealers to fix this issue. |
|
|
| blackx |
| Tispco, Thanks for a great piece of work. The photos are very helpful. After seeing them I immediately went outside to look under my '03 to see how it compared to your hanger photos. It sure looks like the hangers are identical on my '03. I would be more certain, but it is so damn cold here in the NE that I had to beat a hasty retreat. In any case, I am delighted by what I saw because that would suggest Acura's solution will be applicable to '03's and '04's. |
|
|
| phins2rt |
quote:
Originally posted by blackx
Tispco, Thanks for a great piece of work. The photos are very helpful. After seeing them I immediately went outside to look under my '03 to see how it compared to your hanger photos. It sure looks like the hangers are identical on my '03. I would be more certain, but it is so damn cold here in the NE that I had to beat a hasty retreat. In any case, I am delighted by what I saw because that would suggest Acura's solution will be applicable to '03's and '04's.
blackx,
Glad to hear this may work on the 03s as well!!
Tispco,
Thanks for the excellent pics!:29: These should prove very helpful! |
|
|
| peterb |
quote:
Originally posted by CJB
Good news is that I took my MDX for a 300 mile trip this weekend with zero evidence of the drone so I remain confident they have it figured it out. Unfortunately my dealer's service manager took Monday off so I still don't have all the details. I'll call again tomorrow.
I did speak with the service writer today. He confirmed Tech Line was involved with the resolution on Friday. I asked for the tech line case number but he wanted to wait and have his service manager provide that information to me (yes - I told him there were a bunch of you waiting) He also said he was sure that Acura is writing a TSB for this issue.
Lastly, I asked for a little more info on the fix and got that the problem hanger is too small and it causes either the hanger assembly or exhaust system to rest against the vehicle frame while resonating. Apparently that's why it's difficult to pinpoint the source.
I'll check back in with this thread tomorrow.
CJB could you tell me which Acura dealer you used?I also live in upstate NY and also got my 04 MDX about 3 weeks ago.Maybe I could take my to your dealer and have it fixed. |
|
|
| peterb |
| CJB, I just found your post with the name of your dealer.I got my MDX from those guys too!Way better than Lexus across the street. |
|
|
| ELP_JC |
Thanks a lot for your great work Tispco.
I'm puzzled by your finding of removing the REAR hanger and the drone going away; why do you think removing a hanger so far back eliminates the drone that seems to be coming from the front?
Is it that the front hanger is pushing the exhaust UP, while the down pressure from the non-supported muffler alleviates it?
It seems to me that the drone is being caused by the exhaust at the FRONT being too tight, right?
If that sounds right to you, just spacing the front bracket should do the trick, without needing to alter the rear hanger; what's your opinion?
How about leaving the rear alone, and just space the front bracket an amount equal to 'no load', where the hanger is not in either tension or compression. As you said, the rear hanger could do the job itself, but the front would still be supported somewhat.
I'm ALMOST ready to get under there. By the time Acura comes up with the solution, we all here will have it fixed :1:
JC |
|
|
| RealWing |
That chunk of steel on the pipe proves that Acura has a problem - and they know about it. In fact they obviously knew about it for some time - maybe from this forum?
Too bad the steel damper didnt totally fix the drone. Looks like we are on the right track with changing the "tuning" of the rubber supports. |
|
|
| lawsdw1 |
| Tispco... How did you get the rubber piece off. In an earlier picture it looked as if something was in the two holes. Does it easily come off or do you need tools?, Can you give a a detailed description of how to remove it. My front bracket is off, but you guys out there beware, after a while the exhaust will start rattling, mine has started in the last 2 days. I am puting the bracket back on, but I will use washers like TISPCO. |
|
|
| Tispco |
ELB_JC -- I think the way the entire system is attached to the bottom of the X is a bit too tight, causing the drone. Removing the hanger further back loosens things up and stops the drone. With the main muffler isolator / hanger removed, there is not much support for the entire exhaust system and not much opportunity for the exhaust to transfer any noise / vibration through the car. I think that is why removing either hanger works.
Of the two mounts, I would bet we will see a redesigned front bracket when the TSB comes out. The rear isolator is a very standard piece used on most newer cars I have looked under. You can pickup a main muffler isolator very similar to the X's at Auto Zone. They stock it with the other generic exhaust hangers. The front hanger is either specific to Honda or possibly just the MDX. I also agree it does not allow much movement for the exhaust. That is why I added the spacers. The spacers put the front hanger at no load when installed as you mentioned.
So, after removing both hangers, I decided to try the spacers for the front and to cut away some of the main muffler hanger as I posted earlier. I gave it a try and it did the trick. Also, my exhaust is now adequately supported. I did not check each change separately. It is possible that I did not need to make both changes, but I did not want to make more runs to the interstate to find out.
Real_Wing - That is exactly what I thought when I saw that chunk of steel and I wanted to share it with everyone. Also, for what it is worth, my MDX was built between 12/9/2003 and 12/20/2003. (I found several parts date stamped 12/7/2003 and 12/8/2003 and the dealer received my X on 12/23/2003.) It would be interesting to know if the '03's or even earlier '04's have the steel damper welded on. |
|
|
| Tispco |
lawsdw1 -- You do not need any tools to remove the main muffler hanger. It pulls off at the top (might take a bit of work) and then you can unhook it at the bottom. After I had it off, I snipped away the rubber as shown in the picture above and reinstalled it.
Also, if I remember correctly, your front bracket has not been off very long. The main purpose of that bracket is to take the stress of the exhaust system off the braided flex section of exhaust pipe just in front of it. Just a guess on my part, but due to lack of support, that flex section my be weakening, so I would get that bracket back on soon. Also, when putting the front bracket back on, there is a small shield with two 8mm bolts you need to remove to get it back together. I was able to remove the bracket without removing the shield, but I could not reinstall it without first taking that shield off. |
|
|
| blackx |
quote:
Originally posted by Tispco It would be interesting to know if the '03's or even earlier '04's have the steel damper welded on. [/B]
Without a doubt the steel damper welded on your exhause pipe is evidence that Acura is aware they have a resonance problem and they have produced at least some '04's with this attempted fix. I would not rule out the possibility that there be several "quick fix" designs rolling off the production line. Then Acura just sits back to see which design is not involved in any complaints. That design becomes becomes TSB fix. Just a thought!
With regard to the question about the steel damper being on any '03 models. I have a late production '03 (didn't check the date of manufacture, but I bought it when the '04's first appeared on the lots) and it does not have the steel damper welded to the pipe.
One thing I did notice while I was under my '03, the semi-circular heat shield ( I guess that is what it is) that follows the length of the exhaust pipe is flimsy. If you deflect a corner with a finger (hardly any pressure required) and then release it, it vibrates like a banjo string. I could easily see how this thing could be a source of vibration that transmits through the vehicle since it is bolted right to the frame. I'm not suggesting that this is the source of the 72 MPH drone, in fact I would argue that it is not, but it does have the potential for being the source of noise at some speed or the right wind condidions. |
|
|
| ELP_JC |
Well, got under the X yesterday, and after inspecting the entire exhaust system, I came to the conclusion that no way I'd touch the middle hanger; it's the ONLY one supporting the system other than at both ends.
As expected, I found the front one to be exerting upward pressure on the system, so I loosened it and installed 3 washers (locking type in the middle) on each bolt, which almost removed all the tension; just left a tiny bit in order to provide support.
The really bad news is I went for a test drive this morning, and the drone is EXACTLY THE SAME as before; no change whatsoever.
I'm really glad the 'fix' is working for other folks, but my car must have something else. I will remove the bracket altogether just for kicks, but my results suggest it won't do squat. If drone is still there, I'll put it back the way it was before, maybe stretching the rubber a little, and hope Acura's fix is more comprehensive than that hanger alone.
As a final comment, exhaust resonance can be caused by tension in any part of the system, and the drone coming clearly from the front, leads me to believe the 2 banks of exhaust pipes, if removed from the car, are definitely NOT in the same position as the exhaust ports on the engine, so they had to be FORCED into place by the bolts. That can cause resonance. In the case of the X, it brings the worst of both worlds: an exhaust you can't even hear outside, but noisy inside; you want the OPPOSITE, huh?
Oh well, uplifting comments are welcome. This is the ONE problem I want gone the most. A close second is all the door and roof rattles. With those 2 gone, I'd be a very happy owner indeed.
Good day gentlemen.
JC |
|
|
| Ronal404 |
| Why did you add the three washers? |
|
|
| ELP_JC |
To relieve the upward tension in the system, which eliminated the drone in most cases reported above (a few). Mine must have tension between the 'V' pipes, since the spacers didn't help. The drone is exactly the same as before, indicating my problem is not in that bracket.
Later. |
|
|
| ndahbar |
| My dealer CONFIRMED to me that an official fix/recall on this is imminent. He asked me if I just wanna wait or do this now, I decided to do it now, and it worked. |
|
|
| kimsta |
ndahbar,
Do you have a copy of the service paper? Can you specify exactly what was done? How long did it take?
I'm planning to go to the dealer this week to pick up my headlights, maybe I can get if fixed while I'm there.
Thanks. |
|
|
| ndahbar |
It was extremely simple. It literally involves the technician driving your car into the service bay, lifting it up, and then removing the rubber mount on the "B-pipe" portion of the exhaust. Literally a couple of mins all together!
What we all associate the word "muffler" to is that fat part of the exhaust that is at the very end of the car under the trunk, with the exhaust tips sticking out of it. It has if you look at it, 3 rubber mounts, surrounding the heatshield. Ignore all of those.
Instead, walk further down the car, towards the center. Now you see this other "muffler" part of the exhaust, only narrower but much longer. There is just ONE rubber mount that looks exactly the same as the ones I described above, which are about 4 inches X 2 inches. It's location in the horizontal plane is right about where the rear passenger door is. You cannot confuse it, it's the only one there.
Simply ask to remove it, or, like in my case, he disattached one side of it and securely wedged it at the bottom so it can't fall off. He asked me if I wanna just do that or remove and keep it in my glovebox I was like NAH keep it down there.
It's that simple. Remove rubber connector (black color) which is right by the B-pipe which is about in the middle of the car if you are looking at the underside. AGAIN there is only one in the middle of the car by the exhaust...and there are 3 others the look identical surrounding the muffler at the very tail end of the car.
I *SUGGEST* you print out a picture from this thread of the rubber mount. Go back a page and look for hsj's post called "Hanger Pics". You can show it to the technician. Also on the same page look for the post named "Main Muffler Hanger " |
|
|
| votnet |
quote:
Originally posted by ndahbar
My dealer CONFIRMED to me that an official fix/recall on this is imminent. He asked me if I just wanna wait or do this now, I decided to do it now, and it worked.
ndahbar: Can you please specify which dealer is this? I also live in Boston area.
Thank you. |
|
|
| ndahbar |
quote:
Originally posted by votnet
ndahbar: Can you please specify which dealer is this? I also live in Boston area.
Thank you.
Acura of Boston. You can go and ask for ERWIN and tell him that you talked to Nizar online and he referred you to him, and tell him you want the same exhaust hum job done.
BTW they charged me $16 to do this, cuz you know it's not a "scheduled" or "expected" fix officially, and I had no problem with paying it at all. In fact I was in the service bay chatting with the technician, and also one of them took me to an office and whipped out his laptop and we came to this site and I showed him the posts so they are confident in what they are gonna do to my car. So I used up their time and $16 is nothing. So don't be shocked if they charge you that OK?
By the way guys, go back 1 page and check out tipco's post named "Main Muffler Hanger" he describes what I was saying and also has a pic. |
|
|
| votnet |
| Thanks! I don't have my MDX yet, it will arrive on 2/18. I'm preparing ... :) |
|
|
| msu79gt82 |
quote:
Originally posted by votnet
Thanks! I don't have my MDX yet, it will arrive on 2/18. I'm preparing ... :)
Hope for the best; this "resonance" is NOT ubiquitous to all MDX's - my '04 purrs like a kitten with no abnormal humming noises at all. |
|
|
| kimsta |
ndahbar,
Thanks.
I think I'm going to wait until the recall/fix comes out. I dont want any issues with the muffler not being properly supported. |
|
|
| ELP_JC |
Oh man. I honestly don't want to leave that huge mass unsupported; sorry, but it doesn't make sense to this engineer. It might work, but I'll wait for the 'official' fix.
Good evening gentlemen. |
|
|
| tax_atty |
| I don't doubt that there is a problem, but I'm with msu79gt82 - mine purrs like a kitten. No resonance problem at all. When the recall does come out, I will let them check it out at the next scheduled service. |
|
|
| ndahbar |
I know what you mean fellas. But ain't no exhaust gonna be falling off the car, don't worry. The THREE technicians standing under my car looking at the exhaust would have advised against it if it was of any risk, not to mention a service mgr was standing there too. ;)
Anyway, my annoying drone is gone, and that's just what I wanted.
I would be surprised if most 04 cars needed this? I would imagine a lot more 03's would have the issue.
Well, as described in this thread, this exact fix does the trick, no questions about it. |
|
|
| ndahbar |
quote:
Originally posted by votnet
Thanks! I don't have my MDX yet, it will arrive on 2/18. I'm preparing ... :)
Heh, very coincidental. I got mine 2/18 of last year. In the same town too. :D |
|
|
| phins2rt |
| Thanks ndahbar. The more I drive my X, the more the droning is driving me crazy. Glad to know there is a fix for the 03s. |
|
|
| mdx99 |
quote:
Originally posted by ndahbar
I know what you mean fellas. But ain't no exhaust gonna be falling off the car, don't worry. The THREE technicians standing under my car looking at the exhaust would have advised against it if it was of any risk, not to mention a service mgr was standing there too. ;)
Anyway, my annoying drone is gone, and that's just what I wanted.
I would be surprised if most 04 cars needed this? I would imagine a lot more 03's would have the issue.
Well, as described in this thread, this exact fix does the trick, no questions about it.
After reading this thread, I was crusing at 70mph on my way home last night, don't hear anything from the rear except the Jazz from my kenwood speakers.:confused: |
|
|
| ELP_JC |
quote:
Originally posted by mdx99
After reading this thread, I was crusing at 70mph on my way home last night, don't hear anything from the rear except the Jazz from my kenwood speakers.:confused:
The drone comes from the FRONT buddy:D .
Ndahbar, I'll try your recommendation and see what happens. I think I should remove the washers as well, or the system might hang down too low.
Later. |
|
|
| Ronal404 |
I called the service manager who acknowledged the droning coming from my 04MDX to tell him I was bringing in the car to have the hanger modified or removed, as noted in this thread. He said the last time I was in he spoke with the Acura Techline and he had already taken off the hanger on their recommendation. Since that did not fix the problem, the Techline had nothing else to suggest at that time.
Then he mentioned that not only are they seeing it on the 04 MDX but are now hearing about it on the TL and that as of last week there still was no permanent, all inclusive fix for the noise.
So, I will be patient a little more and see if they have a TSB within the next week or two but at least we have made the transition from "vechicle characteristic" to "it's a known problem and we are actively trying to fix it". |
|
|
| msu79gt82 |
quote:
Originally posted by Ronal404
Then he mentioned that not only are they seeing it on the 04 MDX but are now hearing about it on the TL
No Drone on either of my two my MDXs or on my TL. |
|
|
| evoge |
| Is this the thread that won't die, or what? Now I'm starting to hear The Drone in my Integra, and my snowblower isn't sounding so hot either.:mad: |
|
|
| ELP_JC |
quote:
Originally posted by evoge
Is this the thread that won't die, or what?
Is somebody pointing a gun to your head to read it? SKIP IT; don't torture yourself:1: |
|
|
| evoge |
quote:
Originally posted by ELP_JC
Is somebody pointing a gun to your head to read it? SKIP IT; don't torture yourself:1:
Sensitive subject for y'all? |
|
|
| ACURA58 |
quote:
Originally posted by evoge
Sensitive subject for y'all?
Hello Evoge,
In case you haven't already noticed, ELP_JC is the resident Complaint Department. Constant complaints. Now his complaint is that the 'drone' is not the hangers, as diagnosed by Acura.
To be truthful, I think the 'drone' is coming from his head (IMHO of course!)
:D |
|
|
| evoge |
| Thanks, I'll let it go. (But up to 24 pages now!) |
|
|
| ACURA58 |
quote:
Originally posted by evoge
Thanks, I'll let it go. (But up to 24 pages now!)
A while back, someone named 'etwd' pretty much summed up ELP_JC! Looks like etwd left the forum because of ELP_JC's negativity! Can't blame him! It really does get old (24-pages of his whining). Can a Moderator please lock him out of this thread, please??
:2: |
|
|
| TheWorm |
quote:
Originally posted by ACURA58
A while back, someone named 'etwd' pretty much summed up ELP_JC! Looks like etwd left the forum because of ELP_JC's negativity! Can't blame him! It really does get old (24-pages of his whining). Can a Moderator please lock him out of this thread, please??
:2:
etwd left the forum because I restricted his account after I (and a number of other members reporting posts to moderators) grew tired of the negativity and personal attacks.
Hmmm, I see your profile, email and IP matches his. What a coincidence. :rolleyes:
You can choose to play nice or not play at all. Up to you. |
|
|
| ACURA58 |
quote:
Originally posted by TheWorm
etwd left the forum because I restricted his account after I (and a number of other members reporting posts to moderators) grew tired of the negativity and personal attacks.
Hmmm, I see your profile, email and IP matches his. What a coincidence. :rolleyes:
You can choose to play nice or not play at all. Up to you.
OOPS! Did I blow my cover?:confused: |
|
|
| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by ACURA58
OOPS! Did I blow my cover?:confused:
What will be your next move, become ACURA59? |
|
|
| ACURA58 |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
What will be your next move, become ACURA59?
DaleB,
You are the little jokester aren't you. You should know that an Engineer would never reveal his next move. Shame on you!
ACURA58 remains; it flows doesn't it....:2: |
|
|
| Sir P |
After reading acura58's first post here (not surprisingly bashing someone else again), I immediately suspected it was etwd resurrected.
I suggest people (read: etwd, acura58, acura59, etc...) stop posting stuff here that does not relate to the topic of the thread. That way the thread will not grow as rapidly, and it will contain only constructive information. |
|
|
| ACURA58 |
quote:
Originally posted by Sir P
After reading acura58's first post here (not surprisingly bashing someone else again), I immediately suspected it was etwd resurrected.
I suggest people (read: etwd, acura58, acura59, etc...) stop posting stuff here that does not relate to the topic of the thread. That way the thread will not grow as rapidly, and it will contain only constructive information.
Agreed......... |
|
|
| mdx99 |
quote:
Originally posted by ELP_JC
The drone comes from the FRONT buddy:D .
Ndahbar, I'll try your recommendation and see what happens. I think I should remove the washers as well, or the system might hang down too low.
Later.
No drone from the front or side either, still enjoying my Jazz!:eek:
$.02 from an engineer. |
|
|
| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by ACURA58
DaleB,
You are the little jokester aren't you. You should know that an Engineer would never reveal his next move. Shame on you!
ACURA58 remains; it flows doesn't it....:2:
Well , you got me there by golly!! :eek: |
|
|
| kvfhg |
Why don't you guys stop bragging about being an Engineer and get back to the discussion as this thread was intentionally created for.
Thank you! |
|
|
| ndahbar |
LOL I like the last dozen or so posts. :D
Guys, *TRUST ME* my 2003 (which I took delivery of in Feb 2003) most certainly, unequivocally, 100% had a noticably loud enough droning sound when my RPM is at ~2000 or ~2100 RPM.
My fix on Tues at the dealership by removing that rubber mount 100% did the trick. This I can swear to you guys on my life with.
The easiest test to make 100% sure is to drive on the highway (hopefully on a not-too-windy of a day or night) and keep your car steady at 70mph. Then very lighter feather the throttle in order to have the RPM play around between 1900 and 2200 RPM, slowly. Now with all your windows closed, radio off, A/C off, and nobody in the car singing or talking to you, can you not hear this "droning" sound when you do this, which sounds like it is coming from around the center or the rear of the MDX, from around where you could visualize the exhaust is physically located?
Try it if you are unsure, regardless of model year. Heck, you can even rev it very slowly around town as you shift into 2nd gear, keep your eyes on the RPM as it hits 1900 rpm and your ears ready to notice the droning.
The ultimate proof for you all is when you will receive the recall for this, and no, it's not just the 2004 owners that will get them. |
|
|
| hopeitsfriday |
ndahbar
Humm...that sounds like way too much work to try to create a noise that you dont want to hear to start with, but seriouly, i have a 03 and have never heard the drone or what ever it is that you guys call it. Maybe some people just expect their $40000 car to be perfect, as we all know, cars are like human, none of them are perfect.
Another $0.02 worth from another engineer |
|
|
| ndahbar |
quote:
Originally posted by hopeitsfriday
ndahbar
Humm...that sounds like way too much work to try to create a noise that you dont want to hear to start with, but seriouly, i have a 03 and have never heard the drone or what ever it is that you guys call it. Maybe some people just expect their $40000 car to be perfect, as we all know, cars are like human, none of them are perfect.
Another $0.02 worth from another engineer
Too much work? Just get RPM to 2K hover it up and down 100 to 200 rpm below and above that slowly and notice anything...? That's it!
Anyway, it makes sense not all cars have this issue. But I'll wager my own life to you that mine had it, and now it's gone. Yippe! And yes it was annoying and evident. But since it happens during only about 3 or 4% of the RPM range (200 / 6200) then it is NOT a big deal and I would NEVER expect 99/100 passengers I take with me in the car to ever notice or mention it.
But to me, trust me it was there and I noticed it from day2 of ownership.
Oh, I was in a bright parking lot and so took the opportunity to get down there and make sure my exhaust wasn't "hanging down" slightly or anything. Nope. Normal. :cool:
Again, wait till acura mails you the recall, then you'll believe me I guess. Then again, we'll see maybe SOME on this board will get the note and some not (build dates of the cars?? Mine was mine Jan 03 I think). |
|
|
| blackx |
It seems MDX owners who are lucky enough not to have this resonance problem have troubling believing those that do. If they acknowledge there could be a noise, it is dismissed as something that can only be heard by people who are overly critical.
Well, it is the very nature of a resonance that it will vary considerably from one vehicle to the next. Exhaust systems are not fabricated with the same tolerances used to build an engine, so no two will have exactly the same vibrations characteristics. If they did, this problem would be much easier for Acura engineers to solve. It also the very reason why the fixes tried to date have worked for some owners, but not necessarily for every one.
A resonance is a small vibration that is amplified many times because its frequency is in sync with the natural frequency of its surroudings. It is the principle on which most musical instruments are designed. The reed on a clarinet vibrates at a frequency that is amplified many times over by the body of the instrument. The shape, size and material of the body all affect the amplification.
If you want to experience resonance and how it behaves. Choose several thin walled drinking glasses with similar shapes and sizes, or choose them all from a cheap set where the tolerances vary from one glass to the next. Wet the glasses and run your finger lighlty around the rim. Some will sing like a canary and others will produce little or no noise. That is resonance - the small vibration between your finger and the rim is in sync with natural frequency of the wall of the glass. The noise is further amplified by the volume and shape of the glass itself.
So, for the doubting Thomas' in this thread, please accept that from one MDX to the next this problem can run the gamut of non-existant to the other extreme where it is at a pitch and volume so annoying that it cannot be ignored. In the most severe cases there is no need to turn off the radio or ask passengers to be quiet to hear it - this is a drone of such proportions that is should not exist in a vehicle at any price level.
p.s. I'm not an engineer, so you can dismiss all the above as bs. |
|
|
| msu79gt82 |
quote:
Originally posted by blackx
It seems MDX owners who are lucky enough not to have this resonance problem have troubling believing those that do. If they acknowledge there could be a noise, it is dismissed as something that can only be heard by people who are overly critical.
So, for the doubting Thomas' in this thread, please accept that from one MDX to the next this problem can run the gamut of non-existant to the other extreme where it is at a pitch and volume so annoying that it cannot be ignored.
Part of the doubts come from the nature of this thread itself, which I have commented on before. What started as an '04 only drone is now a resonance that seemingly effects all 4 model years:confused: I confessed some doubts myself for a couple of reasons; until this thread no '01, '02, or '03 owners made an issue of it - I find that strange. Second those who have "solved" their issue have done so in a variety of ways (at least two) - so clearly it is not a single simple design defect.
And finally and most important to a lot of us is the the "character" of a lot of the posters. This website is OFFICIALLY a site for MDX enthusiasts who can come together in a brotherly/family/fellowship (you pick your adjective) gathering to share experiences and have some fun. We have never censored problems with the MDX and have dealt with them openly before and will continue to do so. I am puzzled by posters who have ~30-60 posts with 95+% of them in this thread!!:eek: Right or wrong if DaleB says he has a problem he is trusted; if a newbie comes in ranting and raving w/o a single positive contribution or even an introduction then (again right or wrong ) they will be greeted with some doubts:cool: :1:
PS: I am not saying or have I ever said this "resonance" is not a problem - I am commenting on why some may doubt, as I have at times. |
|
|
| blackx |
quote:
Originally posted by msu79gt82
Part of the doubts come from the nature of this thread itself, which I have commented on before. What started as an '04 only drone is now a resonance that seemingly effects all 4 model years:confused: I confessed some doubts myself for a couple of reasons; until this thread no '01, '02, or '03 owners made an issue of it - I find that strange.
And finally and most important to a lot of us is the the "character" of a lot of the posters. This website is OFFICIALLY a site for MDX enthusiasts who can come together in a brotherly/family/fellowship (you pick your adjective) gathering to share experiences and have some fun. We have never censored problems with the MDX and have dealt with them openly before and will continue to do so.
Look at the first page of this thread and see how many of the posts were from '04 owners. The answer is none. I don't agree with your inference that what is at work here is the power of suggestion. I for one, came here looking for information on this problem after I experienced the drone on my late model '03.
Also, I didn't think commenting on a problem in the "Problem" section of this forum would draw my character into question or exclude me from the enthusiasts club. After all, I have owned four Acura's to date, and I still own the first one, a 1987 Legend coupe with 200,000 miles on it and it is still in beautiful shape. But, the fact is my '03 MDX has an unacceptable exhaust resonance. |
|
|
| ndahbar |
| LOL. All interesting posts. But trust me, my 2003 had the issue and it's gone, thanks to the rubber mount piece that is now occupying one of my console cupholders instead of being under the car. ;) |
|
|
| msu79gt82 |
quote:
Originally posted by blackx
I don't agree with your inference that what is at work here is the power of suggestion. I for one, came here looking for information on this problem after I experienced the drone on my late model '03.
Also, I didn't think commenting on a problem in the "Problem" section of this forum would draw my character into question or exclude me from the enthusiasts club.
I am NOT inferring anything - I did offer a suggestion as to why there are doubters.
I did not question YOUR character (and in fact used quotation marks); there are however some posters with ALL of their posts in this thread and have no record of ever saying a good/positive thing about their MDX. That is a sad fact and contributes to the doubting syndrome. |
|
|
| peterb |
| Took my MDX to the dealer today to have this drone fixed.Picked it up in the afternoon and the noise is gone!Great service at my dealership. |
|
|
| phins2rt |
quote:
Originally posted by peterb
Took my MDX to the dealer today to have this drone fixed.Picked it up in the afternoon and the noise is gone!Great service at my dealership.
Peterb,
Were they aware of the problem before you mentioned it? BTW, what's your location and model year? |
|
|
| peterb |
| Yes, they knew exactly what the problem was and knew about the fix.I am located in Upstate NY and have 04 MDX base model with 700 miles on it. |
|
|
| lawsdw1 |
| peterb.... Do you know exactly what they did to it.. Did they take the rubber piece out of the center or the bracket off the front. |
|
|
| bv99 |
| I logged onto this site this evening, because yesterday I had an opportunity to drive my new '04 MDX on a long stretch of the Southern State Pkwy at speeds which varied between 65 and 80, and noticed exactly what others in this thread had described. While I've gotten used to the thunk from the fuel in the gas tank, this newly discovered annoyance is going to bother me if something cannot be done. This week I will be driving to Vermont, and will pay close attention to the conditions surrounding this problem, however I am pretty sure it is precisely as described by others. Around 75 mph, in 5th gear (I wasn't paying attention to rpms). |
|
|
| rerodgers |
Took my X into the the dealer today to have the emissions recall done, so far so good on that front. I asked the service manager if they had heard of the 2000K rpm drone and they not only had not heard of it they had not had any complaints. He said that he would talk to his local acura service rep and let me know what he finds out. It should be interesting to see what he comes up with.
:4: |
|
|
| peterb |
quote:
Originally posted by lawsdw1
peterb.... Do you know exactly what they did to it.. Did they take the rubber piece out of the center or the bracket off the front.
Not sure what they did exactly,but my receipt said that they did some adjustment of front bracket.I will check it when I get home and post it. |
|
|
| fsconsult |
I've purchased a 2004 Acura TL Auto/Nav about 4 months ago.
The 2004 TL auto has the same engine droning / vibration problem, but the droning occurs at 1500-1600 rpm at any speeds. Most noticeable at 50-55 mph.
If you downshift or release throttle, the droning/vibrations goes away.
During the 1st month of ownership, I have had my car in for service for 18 days in an attempt to get this problem resolved. My service dept replaced my torque converter and selenoid, but it didn't help. They finally got the ok from Engineering in CA to replace my entire transmission. That is when a District Rep from Acura stepped in to stop the replacement. I've met with him to discuss and that's when he pulled the it's a "Normal Characteristic" of the TL nonsense.
Since then, Acura service will no longer entertain any attempts to resolve. Have been a very frustrating ordeal. I've spoken numerous times to Customer Service, Acura District Rep and the Regional Rep to no avail...kept getting it's normal b*&s**t. I've gone through letter writing campaigns with no results.
Here is the official response I've received:
"The dealer and the Acura Representative have reviewed your issue regarding the engine vibration in your 2004 Acura TL. They are our eyes and ears in the field and we rely on their experience and expertise to make a determination in certain situations, such as yours. After inspection of your vehicle, it was found that the vibration is not a defect, but rather, a characteristic of the vehicle."
For those who doubt that the droning occurs, see the link below:
http://www.vtec.net/forums/one-mess...age%5fid=199901
A staff member, after hearing of the numerous complaints, took equipment with him to measure dBA differences between speeds. At 50 mph (where droning occurs), he noted increase of 5-6 dBA.
As with the MDX, most TL owners are not experiencing this, while others are. The severity of the droning also varies from car to car (having test driven numerous other TL's) Mines happens to be one of the worst.
Hopefully, somehow TL and MDX owners can ban together to force Acura to resolve. What common characteristics does the TL and MDX share which my cause this problem? (engine, exhaust, transmission, etc) Hopefully, Acura will step up and finally work on a fix if made public enough. Has Acura's standards gone down? How can they claim that this is a normal characteristic? |
|
|
| ndahbar |
quote:
Originally posted by fsconsult
I've purchased a 2004 Acura TL Auto/Nav about 4 months ago.
The 2004 TL auto has the same engine droning / vibration problem, but the droning occurs at 1500-1600 rpm at any speeds. Most noticeable at 50-55 mph.
If you downshift or release throttle, the droning/vibrations goes away.
During the 1st month of ownership, I have had my car in for service for 18 days in an attempt to get this problem resolved. My service dept replaced my torque converter and selenoid, but it didn't help. They finally got the ok from Engineering in CA to replace my entire transmission. That is when a District Rep from Acura stepped in to stop the replacement. I've met with him to discuss and that's when he pulled the it's a "Normal Characteristic" of the TL nonsense.
Since then, Acura service will no longer entertain any attempts to resolve. Have been a very frustrating ordeal. I've spoken numerous times to Customer Service, Acura District Rep and the Regional Rep to no avail...kept getting it's normal b*&s**t. I've gone through letter writing campaigns with no results.
Here is the official response I've received:
"The dealer and the Acura Representative have reviewed your issue regarding the engine vibration in your 2004 Acura TL. They are our eyes and ears in the field and we rely on their experience and expertise to make a determination in certain situations, such as yours. After inspection of your vehicle, it was found that the vibration is not a defect, but rather, a characteristic of the vehicle."
For those who doubt that the droning occurs, see the link below:
http://www.vtec.net/forums/one-mess...age%5fid=199901
A staff member, after hearing of the numerous complaints, took equipment with him to measure dBA differences between speeds. At 50 mph (where droning occurs), he noted increase of 5-6 dBA.
As with the MDX, most TL owners are not experiencing this, while others are. The severity of the droning also varies from car to car (having test driven numerous other TL's) Mines happens to be one of the worst.
Hopefully, somehow TL and MDX owners can ban together to force Acura to resolve. What common characteristics does the TL and MDX share which my cause this problem? (engine, exhaust, transmission, etc) Hopefully, Acura will step up and finally work on a fix if made public enough. Has Acura's standards gone down? How can they claim that this is a normal characteristic?
Eh, an honorable effort, but nah, why bother? Just remove a stupid rubber mount and yer done! :2:
Oh and don't worry, your exhaust system won't move or stretch downwards, I checked. I went over large speedbumps, I took corners at high speed, no problemo. |
|
|
|
